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Date
Re: Free 16702A Logic Analyzer Chassis

 

and I just bought one... :/ :D

Enviado do meu Tele-Movel

On Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 22:23 Niel Viljoen <nviljoen@...> wrote:
I hope this is not inappropriate for the group.


I have a working 16702A in good condition EXCEPT that the built in display does not work, I have used it with an external display for some time. It has no cards. I am located in the Bay Area.

N/

I have some others that I may be willing to sell if there is interest as well 16702A fully working with 1 logic analyzer card, 16500C also in very good condition with 1 logic analyzer card.
Free 16702A Logic Analyzer Chassis

 

I hope this is not inappropriate for the group.


I have a working 16702A in good condition EXCEPT that the built in display does not work, I have used it with an external display for some time. It has no cards. I am located in the Bay Area.

N/

I have some others that I may be willing to sell if there is interest as well 16702A fully working with 1 logic analyzer card, 16500C also in very good condition with 1 logic analyzer card.
Re: PCMCIA FLASH and HP8920B

 

On 08/25/2018 06:01 PM, RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: added PS]


I have this slew of PCMCIA FLASH memory cards and I need help in
determining which if any will work with my HP8920B. The manuals are not
very descriptive and I don't want to damage anything in trying. I have
some test programs in battery backed SRAM PCMCIA and would like them on
FLASH for long term . Help? Thanks Joe? PS If anything it would be
helpful to know which ones not to bother trying.
Just FYI, every time you "edit your post", the rest of us get another
copy of all of those pictures in our email.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: wanted: HP 70K MMS (hp 70000) software: whole system software, individual module software, ROM software, personality software, etc.)

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi all I have a few disks of 70000 software? unfortunately I do not have the ability to verify the contents / copy or transfer ?as listed below

?

?

Description

Function

Equipment

Disk

Part Number

format

?

?

?

?

?

?

System? Verification

Executive Disk 1

?

1

5010-1537

5.25

System? Verification

Executive Disk 2

?

2

5010-1537

5.25

System? Verification

Test Disk? 1

71100A / 71200A

1

5010-1537

5.25

System? Verification

Test Disk? 2

71300A / 70300A

2

5010-1537

5.25

System? Verification

Test Disk? 3

71201A

3

5010-1537

5.25

System? Verification

?

?

?

5010-1537

Missing

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

Modula Verification

Executive Disk 1

70908A

1 of? 12

70908-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Executive Disk 2

70908A

2 of? 12

70908-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Executive Disk 3

70908A

3 of? 12

70908-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Operating Disk

70908A

4 of? 12

70908-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Drivers Disk 1

70908A

5 of? 12

70908-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Drivers Disk 2

70908A

6 of? 12

70908-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Drivers Disk 3

70908A

7 of? 12

70908-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

?

70908A

8 of? 12

70908-10002

Missing

Modula Verification

?

70908A

9 of? 12

70908-10002

Missing

Modula Verification

?

70908A

10 of? 12

70908-10002

Missing

Modula Verification

?

70908A

11 of? 12

70908-10002

Missing

Modula Verification

?

70908A

12 of? 12

70908-10002

Missing

?

?

?

?

?

?

Modula Verification

?

70300A

1 of 9

70300-10002

Missing

Modula Verification

?

70300A

2 of 9

70300-10002

Missing

Modula Verification

Operating Disk

70300A

3 of 9

70300-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Driver Disk 1

70300A

4 of 9

70300-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Driver Disk 2

70300A

5 of 9

70300-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Test Disk 1

70300A

6 of 9

70300-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Test Disk 2

70300A

7 of 9

70300-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Test Disk 3

70300A

8 of 9

70300-10002

5.25

Modula Verification

Adjustment Disk

70300A

9 of 9

70300-10002

5.25

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of garp6
Sent: 25 August 2018 17:53
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] wanted: HP 70K MMS (hp 70000) software: whole system software, individual module software, ROM software, personality software, etc.)

?


Does anyone have ?*any* ?HP 70K MMS (HP 70000 system ) ?software to deposit into an Open archive ?

? ?Anyone know of any HP 70K MMS era related HP Engineers, Service Techs, or MMS end-users that can be contacted, that might be able to help ?

Please let us know.

thank you !!

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15883 - Release Date: 08/14/18
3325A power supply overheating

 

I have a 3325A which recently stopped working.? I've traced the problem to a very high load from one particular PCB and will track down the (most likely) bad tantalum.

However, I noticed that the power supply PCB shows signs of overtemperature around the four large diodes.? The board is quite brown.? Even without the problem PCB connected, those diodes as well as the pass transistors on the heatsink run pretty hot.? It looks like repairs have been made in that area by someone else in the past.? The fan seems to be operating normally.? Has anyone else noticed this?

I'm thinking of finding a replacement power supply PCB or buying a parts unit hoping the power supply is in better shape.? Before I go to ebay, does anyone have a parts unit?

Also, the oven oscillator, while close to proper frequency, is showing quite a lot of short term drift, close to 0.5 PPM over the span of minutes, up and down.? While I don't need super precision usually, this is obviously wrong and should also be replaced.
PCMCIA FLASH and HP8920B

 
Edited


I have this slew of PCMCIA FLASH memory cards and I need help in determining which if any will work with my HP8920B. The manuals are not very descriptive and I don't want to damage anything in trying. I have some test programs in battery backed SRAM PCMCIA and would like them on FLASH for long term . Help? Thanks Joe? PS If anything it would be helpful to know which ones not to bother trying.

P1160585.JPG
P1160586.JPG
P1160587.JPG
P1160588.JPG
P1160589.JPG
P1160590.JPG
P1160591.JPG
P1160592.JPG
P1160593.JPG

Re: 11729C oscillations

 

Is the preamp circuit really that different between versions? I would think they'd be close either way. Can you see the oscillations on the output, without any other signals applied? If so, try unplugging the input cable at J1, eliminating any input signal and the cable capacitance, and see if it becomes (at least marginally) stable.

I haven't used or seen the insides of my 11729C in years, so don't recall the looks and accessibility of the modules. Can the preamp be opened up and set up for operation while open, and out in the open for access? If so, then you can use the old pencil trick and poke around the hot nodes to find the sensitive spots. 27 MHz seems rather low for one of these stages to oscillate at - you'd expect something at VHF or up. So, it would likely be due to the preamp's LF feedback loop instability, or in the power amp stage that is much slower. Q6 could maybe use a bead on its base too.

Another possibility is that there are actually two VHF oscillations going on, and the 27 MHz is just one of the mixing products that's in-band for the overall amplifier. If you have a spectrum analyzer handy, try looking at the output, but at way higher frequencies and sensitivities. If nothing shows at the output, try looking at the input, where you may have closer access to any VHF stuff going on in the preamp.

Before digging too deep, it would be good to do a quick check through the stages to be sure the DC bias levels make sense.

You are right to question the PS bypassing arrangement, and try adding some HF bypass caps. However, if these electrolytics are tantalum type (most likely), then they should have good performance even at RF, so the need for extra bypassing is greatly reduced. Worth checking though, just in case.

BTW the schematic I'm looking at says it's A6A1 low noise amplifier board assembly (11729-60009).

Good luck.
Ed
Re: wanted: HP 70K MMS (hp 70000) software: whole system software, individual module software, ROM software, personality software, etc.)

 


Does anyone have ?*any* ?HP 70K MMS (HP 70000 system ) ?software to deposit into an Open archive ?

? ?Anyone know of any HP 70K MMS era related HP Engineers, Service Techs, or MMS end-users that can be contacted, that might be able to help ?

Please let us know.

thank you !!
Re: HP 8656B

 

hi Chuck,

As a roadmap, how about ?~3 photos ?of the 8656 ?A10 board & C18, with the C18 markings & associated physical space (with a ruler) ?

thank you,
rick
Re: HP 8656B

 

Yes. I (and everyone else here) uses decibels every day, but isn't it
odd that we use 1/10th of a Bel as a "base unit" of sorts? We talk
about 0.1dB or 0.01dB all the time, but why not a centiBel or a milliBel?

The common use of 1/10th probably has its roots in telephony (as the
unit itself does) for some very real-world reason, but it still seems
odd that it took hold.

-Dave

On 08/25/2018 10:58 AM, Leon Robinson wrote:
Lets not forget deci.


Sent from K5JLR


-------- Original message --------
From: Gedas <w8bya@...>
Date: 08/25/2018 9:03 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B


Hi Brian, do you remember from a long time ago when a 8pF cap would be
labeled as a 8 mmF on the schematic.

Gedas, W8BYA

Gallery at
Light travels faster than sound....
This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

On 8/25/2018 2:54 AM, Brian wrote:

Hello Dave,

?

I think that avoiding use of mF is for the reason that a long time
ago, ie, when I was young, a capacitor marked 8 mF was known to be 8
microFarad. The use of uF is a Johnny come lately, with the emergence
of SI multipliers. Easy to write the Greek mu, but not so easy to type
on the early QWERTY keyboards with early versions of word-processing
software. So, rather than confuse older people, the multiplier m for
capacitance is generally avoided.

?

73 de Brian, VK2GCE

?

*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Dr.
David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
*Sent:* Saturday, 25 August 2018 3:40 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B

?

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 06:38 Kuba Ober, <kuba@...
<mailto:kuba@...>> wrote:

How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a
supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years
or so, I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for
micro. Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V.?

?

It is strange why mF? are rarely used. We use mV, mA, m ohm, mH, mm,
but when it comes to capacitors one uses? fF, pF, nF, uF and farads,
but rarely mF.?

?

A capacitor of 0.022? F is rarely called 22 mF, but usually 22,000 uF.?

?

When I use my HP 4284A LCR meter, I have to stop and think when it
shows a result in mF.?

?

I can only guess at one time capacitors usually had values of less
than 1000 uF, so people used uF, and never changed

?

We don't tend to use Mm either. A distance would normally be quoted as
4000 km rather than 4 Mm.?

?

Dave.?
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP 8656B

Leon Robinson
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Lets not forget deci.


Sent from K5JLR


-------- Original message --------
From: Gedas <w8bya@...>
Date: 08/25/2018 9:03 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B


Hi Brian, do you remember from a long time ago when a 8pF cap would be labeled as a 8 mmF on the schematic.

Gedas, W8BYA

Gallery at 
Light travels faster than sound....
This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
On 8/25/2018 2:54 AM, Brian wrote:

Hello Dave,

?

I think that avoiding use of mF is for the reason that a long time ago, ie, when I was young, a capacitor marked 8 mF was known to be 8 microFarad. The use of uF is a Johnny come lately, with the emergence of SI multipliers. Easy to write the Greek mu, but not so easy to type on the early QWERTY keyboards with early versions of word-processing software. So, rather than confuse older people, the multiplier m for capacitance is generally avoided.

?

73 de Brian, VK2GCE

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2018 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B

?

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 06:38 Kuba Ober, <kuba@...> wrote:

How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so, I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro. Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V.?

?

It is strange why mF? are rarely used. We use mV, mA, m ohm, mH, mm, but when it comes to capacitors one uses? fF, pF, nF, uF and farads, but rarely mF.?

?

A capacitor of 0.022? F is rarely called 22 mF, but usually 22,000 uF.?

?

When I use my HP 4284A LCR meter, I have to stop and think when it shows a result in mF.?

?

I can only guess at one time capacitors usually had values of less than 1000 uF, so people used uF, and never changed

?

We don't tend to use Mm either. A distance would normally be quoted as 4000 km rather than 4 Mm.?

?

Dave.?
Re: HP 8656B

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Brian, do you remember from a long time ago when a 8pF cap would be labeled as a 8 mmF on the schematic.

Gedas, W8BYA

Gallery at 
Light travels faster than sound....
This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
On 8/25/2018 2:54 AM, Brian wrote:

Hello Dave,

?

I think that avoiding use of mF is for the reason that a long time ago, ie, when I was young, a capacitor marked 8 mF was known to be 8 microFarad. The use of uF is a Johnny come lately, with the emergence of SI multipliers. Easy to write the Greek mu, but not so easy to type on the early QWERTY keyboards with early versions of word-processing software. So, rather than confuse older people, the multiplier m for capacitance is generally avoided.

?

73 de Brian, VK2GCE

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2018 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B

?

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 06:38 Kuba Ober, <kuba@...> wrote:

How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so, I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro. Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V.?

?

It is strange why mF? are rarely used. We use mV, mA, m ohm, mH, mm, but when it comes to capacitors one uses? fF, pF, nF, uF and farads, but rarely mF.?

?

A capacitor of 0.022? F is rarely called 22 mF, but usually 22,000 uF.?

?

When I use my HP 4284A LCR meter, I have to stop and think when it shows a result in mF.?

?

I can only guess at one time capacitors usually had values of less than 1000 uF, so people used uF, and never changed

?

We don't tend to use Mm either. A distance would normally be quoted as 4000 km rather than 4 Mm.?

?

Dave.?
Re: HP 8656B

 

A 'mil' is also used in US money. It is 1/1000 of a dollar and used for tax rates along with other special transactions.


Michael A. Terrell

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <Adrian@...>
Sent: Aug 25, 2018 4:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B

So I am of an age that I grew up using Imperial measures and pre-decimal money. I have also lived and worked both sides of the Atlantic and in most things I am almost bi-lingual!

The one thing that still trips me up (if I'm not careful) is that in the States, in an engineering shop, a request to "take a couple of mil off that face" means they would take off two thousandths of an inch but in a UK shop they would take a couple of millimetres off!

In the UK 1/1000 of an inch is a 'thou', so I guess the use of 'mil' is a hangover from the Roman occupation of North America?

Adrian
Re: HP 8656B

 

So I am of an age that I grew up using Imperial measures and pre-decimal money. I have also lived and worked both sides of the Atlantic and in most things I am almost bi-lingual!

The one thing that still trips me up (if I'm not careful) is that in the States, in an engineering shop, a request to "take a couple of mil off that face" means they would take off two thousandths of an inch but in a UK shop they would take a couple of millimetres off!

In the UK 1/1000 of an inch is a 'thou', so I guess the use of 'mil' is a hangover from the Roman occupation of North America?

Adrian

On 8/25/2018 12:56 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
...'cause THAT'S practical in the 20th century..

-Dave
M is the Roman numeral for 1000.

Dave Wise
Re: HP 8656B

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello Dave,

?

I think that avoiding use of mF is for the reason that a long time ago, ie, when I was young, a capacitor marked 8 mF was known to be 8 microFarad. The use of uF is a Johnny come lately, with the emergence of SI multipliers. Easy to write the Greek mu, but not so easy to type on the early QWERTY keyboards with early versions of word-processing software. So, rather than confuse older people, the multiplier m for capacitance is generally avoided.

?

73 de Brian, VK2GCE

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2018 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B

?

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 06:38 Kuba Ober, <kuba@...> wrote:

How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so, I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro. Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V.?

?

It is strange why mF? are rarely used. We use mV, mA, m ohm, mH, mm, but when it comes to capacitors one uses? fF, pF, nF, uF and farads, but rarely mF.?

?

A capacitor of 0.022? F is rarely called 22 mF, but usually 22,000 uF.?

?

When I use my HP 4284A LCR meter, I have to stop and think when it shows a result in mF.?

?

I can only guess at one time capacitors usually had values of less than 1000 uF, so people used uF, and never changed

?

We don't tend to use Mm either. A distance would normally be quoted as 4000 km rather than 4 Mm.?

?

Dave.?
Re: HP 8656B

Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
 

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 06:38 Kuba Ober, <kuba@...> wrote:
How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so, I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro. Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V.?

It is strange why mF? are rarely used. We use mV, mA, m ohm, mH, mm, but when it comes to capacitors one uses? fF, pF, nF, uF and farads, but rarely mF.?

A capacitor of 0.022? F is rarely called 22 mF, but usually 22,000 uF.?

When I use my HP 4284A LCR meter, I have to stop and think when it shows a result in mF.?

I can only guess at one time capacitors usually had values of less than 1000 uF, so people used uF, and never changed

We don't tend to use Mm either. A distance would normally be quoted as 4000 km rather than 4 Mm.?

Dave.?
Re: HP 8656B

 

On 08/24/2018 08:34 PM, Harvey White wrote:
I never did understand the point of the 0F13 notation and have never
particular cared for it. Arbitrarily moving the units into the decimal
position seems like a very random thing to do.
one of the difficulties with the 0.xxx notation is leaving off the
zero, or watching the decimal point go away under a bit of use.
Sure, I can't disagree with that.

The advantage is that the decimal separator is kinda obvious. It's
actually easier to look at an SMD resistor and read it if it were
using the #R# notation.
Yebbut...moving the unit there? Why not just replace the period with
something more visible? Even 'X' would do. Even '/'. But don't move
the unit...that belongs to the right of the number.

On the other hand, a lot of it is what you're used to.
Yes, mostly.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP 8656B

 

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 16:25:05 -0400, you wrote:

On 08/24/2018 09:13 AM, Kuba Ober wrote:
I somehow didn¡¯t run into the xxxF notation, where the first digit is 10^-1. Writing 13mF as 013F would be be IMHO crazy. I¡¯d understand 0F13. But of course I didn¡¯t notice the decimal point in front of the zero in Chuck McC¡¯s post ¡ª he seemingly was aware that it was not 13F, perhaps. Only one mention had the correct scaling. I think that in this day and age, all electrolytics can afford to have the capacity written in SI units with international standard scale suffixes. With a zero leading the decimal point, if applicable. It¡¯s extremely easy to misread, say .200F as 200F :) Especially after a long day. I imagine over the years some lives and/or lots of money must have been lost to mishaps of that kind. A space probe, even :)
I never did understand the point of the 0F13 notation and have never
particular cared for it. Arbitrarily moving the units into the decimal
position seems like a very random thing to do.
one of the difficulties with the 0.xxx notation is leaving off the
zero, or watching the decimal point go away under a bit of use.

The advantage is that the decimal separator is kinda obvious. It's
actually easier to look at an SMD resistor and read it if it were
using the #R# notation.

On the other hand, a lot of it is what you're used to.

Harvey



But a leading zero makes 0.013F pretty readable, IMO.

The real problems come in, as Chuck pointed out, when the industry
does things like "MFD". Gads am I glad those days are over!

-Dave
Re: HP 8656B

 

...'cause THAT'S practical in the 20th century..

-Dave

On 08/24/2018 07:46 PM, Dave Wise wrote:
M is the Roman numeral for 1000.

Dave Wise

On Aug 24, 2018, at 4:29 PM, Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:

This is also done in finance where M is 1000 and MM is million. Really odd!


On 8/24/2018 7:19 PM, Brad Thompson wrote:
On 8/24/2018 4:25 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
<snip>
I never did understand the point of the 0F13 notation and have never
particular cared for it. Arbitrarily moving the units into the decimal
position seems like a very random thing to do.

But a leading zero makes 0.013F pretty readable, IMO.

The real problems come in, as Chuck pointed out, when the industry
does things like "MFD". Gads am I glad those days are over!
Hello--

Another pitfall from the "good old days" awaits the beginning
restorer or repairer who examines the schematics of certain
older (tubed) radios. Some manufacturers used "M" as a
multiplier of 1,000 in resistor values.

For example, I'm looking at a schematic for a 1930s Grunow
model 1291 receiver in which various resistors sport labels of
"ohms", "M" and "megohms".

Fortunately, a little knowledge of circuit design would tell you
that using a 47M (megohm) plate resistor in an audio-amplifier
stage would be highly unlikely.

73--

Brad AA1IP






--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP 8656B

 

M is the Roman numeral for 1000.

Dave Wise

On Aug 24, 2018, at 4:29 PM, Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:

This is also done in finance where M is 1000 and MM is million. Really odd!


On 8/24/2018 7:19 PM, Brad Thompson wrote:
On 8/24/2018 4:25 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
<snip>
I never did understand the point of the 0F13 notation and have never
particular cared for it. Arbitrarily moving the units into the decimal
position seems like a very random thing to do.

But a leading zero makes 0.013F pretty readable, IMO.

The real problems come in, as Chuck pointed out, when the industry
does things like "MFD". Gads am I glad those days are over!
Hello--

Another pitfall from the "good old days" awaits the beginning
restorer or repairer who examines the schematics of certain
older (tubed) radios. Some manufacturers used "M" as a
multiplier of 1,000 in resistor values.

For example, I'm looking at a schematic for a 1930s Grunow
model 1291 receiver in which various resistors sport labels of
"ohms", "M" and "megohms".

Fortunately, a little knowledge of circuit design would tell you
that using a 47M (megohm) plate resistor in an audio-amplifier
stage would be highly unlikely.

73--

Brad AA1IP
60721 - 60740 of 151494