Re: HP 8656B capacitor units
Hello--
Back in the day, an introductory Electrical Engineering textbook
(e.g., Hayt and Kemmerly) started off using units of basic values
for examples.
Hence, a circuit would contain, say, a one-Ohm resistor, a one Henry inductor, and
a one Farad capacitor.
One of my classmates expressed excitement at discovering a 100-Ohm resistor,
which he thought was phenomenal.
The next day, I brought in a 10-megohm resistor, a 10-pF capacitor
and a one millihenry inductor. Over a cuppa of coffee, I filled him in
about real-world component values<g>.
73--
Brad AA1IP
|
how about KMC? kilomegacycles for GHz! ________________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 8:03 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8656B Ok, I'm trying hard to figure out what you think is so odd, or special about a 0.013F capacitor. 1,000,000uF = 1.0F 100,000uF = 0.1F 10,000uF = 0.01F 1,000uF = 0.001F 0.013F is 13,000uF, which is rather common in circuits of this sort. Mouser has them in the old computer grade electrolytic cans for about 26 bucks, and in the modern snap in style for about 14 bucks... much higher voltage ratings to boot. [As an aside, capitalization means everything in these units: "m" = milli, which is 0.001x "M" = mega, which is 1,000,000x "u" = micro, which is 0.000001x Respect makes some of us capitalize the units name: F rather than f for Farad B rather than b for Bell A rather than a for Ampere V rather than v for Volt H rather than h for Hertz S rather than s for Siemens... Confusion reigned when MFD meant uF in a world that didn't do lower case letters on labels, and MMF meant micro micro Farad, which was a millionth of a millionth of a Farad... ] It almost certainly doesn't need to be 40V, probably 20V is more like it... but I have seen some electric furnaces masquerading as linear power supplies in the past. The biggest problem I find in these supplies is trying to fit a modern, cheap radial leaded electrolytic into a circuit built for one of the old very expensive "computer grade electrolytic" capacitor footprints. Typically, the new capacitors are so much smaller that you need to come up with a physical adapter to allow them to clamp into the space of the original. -Chuck Harris Chuck wrote: I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my bench. I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for my Bench.
BUT....................
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of ac on the +5V line!!! This shows that C18 could be bad. BUT I had to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the value.............................13,000Mf at 40V....................................
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!! And of course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having to buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
Thanks,
Chuck McClurg
Communications, Ltd.
Carson City, NV
N7UVZ
|
Check your units, .024F = 24mF = 24,000uF.?
Dave
|
I somehow didn¡¯t run into the xxxF notation, where the first digit is 10^-1. Writing 13mF as 013F would be be IMHO crazy. I¡¯d understand 0F13. But of course I didn¡¯t notice the decimal point in front of the zero in Chuck McC¡¯s post ¡ª he seemingly was aware that it was not 13F, perhaps. Only one mention had the correct scaling. I think that in this day and age, all electrolytics can afford to have the capacity written in SI units with international standard scale suffixes. With a zero leading the decimal point, if applicable. It¡¯s extremely easy to misread, say .200F as 200F :) Especially after a long day. I imagine over the years some lives and/or lots of money must have been lost to mishaps of that kind. A space probe, even :)
Cheers, Kuba
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Show quoted text
24 aug. 2018 kl. 08:03 skrev Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>:
Ok, I'm trying hard to figure out what you think is so
odd, or special about a 0.013F capacitor.
1,000,000uF = 1.0F
100,000uF = 0.1F
10,000uF = 0.01F
1,000uF = 0.001F
0.013F is 13,000uF, which is rather common in circuits of
this sort.
Mouser has them in the old computer grade electrolytic cans
for about 26 bucks, and in the modern snap in style for about
14 bucks... much higher voltage ratings to boot.
[As an aside, capitalization means everything in these
units:
"m" = milli, which is 0.001x
"M" = mega, which is 1,000,000x
"u" = micro, which is 0.000001x
Respect makes some of us capitalize the units name:
F rather than f for Farad
B rather than b for Bell
A rather than a for Ampere
V rather than v for Volt
H rather than h for Hertz
S rather than s for Siemens...
Confusion reigned when MFD meant uF in a world that didn't
do lower case letters on labels, and MMF meant micro micro
Farad, which was a millionth of a millionth of a Farad...
]
It almost certainly doesn't need to be 40V, probably 20V is
more like it... but I have seen some electric furnaces
masquerading as linear power supplies in the past.
The biggest problem I find in these supplies is trying to
fit a modern, cheap radial leaded electrolytic into a circuit
built for one of the old very expensive "computer grade
electrolytic" capacitor footprints. Typically, the new
capacitors are so much smaller that you need to come up with
a physical adapter to allow them to clamp into the space of
the original.
-Chuck Harris
Chuck wrote:
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my bench. I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for my Bench.
BUT....................
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of ac on the +5V line!!! This shows that C18 could be bad. BUT I had to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the value.............................13,000Mf at 40V....................................
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!! And of course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having to buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
Thanks,
Chuck McClurg
Communications, Ltd.
Carson City, NV
N7UVZ
|
Yeah, but that is 0.022F, not 22F :)
Cheers, Kuba 24 aug. 2018 kl. 05:02 skrev Paul Bicknell < paul@...>:
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Hi all this is easy? as I have just
been through the same problem but not for HP equipment
?
Kemet do a large rang of capacitors? dependent
on the size / mounting arrangement and terminals
?
For example? 40 v at 22000 uF?
at 36 * 82 mm? screw terminals part number ALS30223DE040?? ?or
stud mounting ALS31223DE040
Distributor ?is Mouser? please
note can and stud is connected to ¨C terminal
?
Regards Paul? B
?
?
Although since DigiKey sells aluminum electrolytics up to 2.2F at 20V,
at a cost of ~1/4k$ perhaps you do have 24F@40V. I imagine it would cost more
than a thousand bucks, but I didn¡¯t search anywhere else. I can¡¯t
imagine that those would let you discharge them very fast without destroying
?the metal electrode.
24F@40V is about 4% of a stick of dynamite if quickly discharged
¡ª but would any small (order of a soup can size) capacitor like that not
have relatively high ESR??
24 aug. 2018 kl. 01:38
skrev Kuba Ober <kuba@...>:
How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a
supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so,
I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro.
Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V. Modern part will
possibly be smaller than the one it will replaces. I have seen a 100F 48V array
about 20 years ago, and it was rack-sized. That rating was with all modules
connected in parallel, but they could be connected in series, too.?
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my
bench.? I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for
my Bench.
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of
ac on the +5V line!!!? This shows that C18 could be bad.? BUT? I
had to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the value.............................13,000Mf
at 40V....................................
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!!
And of course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having
to buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15883 - Release Date: 08/14/18
|
Ok, I'm trying hard to figure out what you think is so
odd, or special about a 0.013F capacitor.
1,000,000uF = 1.0F
100,000uF = 0.1F
10,000uF = 0.01F
1,000uF = 0.001F
0.013F is 13,000uF, which is rather common in circuits of
this sort.
Mouser has them in the old computer grade electrolytic cans
for about 26 bucks, and in the modern snap in style for about
14 bucks... much higher voltage ratings to boot.
[As an aside, capitalization means everything in these
units:
"m" = milli, which is 0.001x
"M" = mega, which is 1,000,000x
"u" = micro, which is 0.000001x
Respect makes some of us capitalize the units name:
F rather than f for Farad
B rather than b for Bell
A rather than a for Ampere
V rather than v for Volt
H rather than h for Hertz
S rather than s for Siemens...
Confusion reigned when MFD meant uF in a world that didn't
do lower case letters on labels, and MMF meant micro micro
Farad, which was a millionth of a millionth of a Farad...
]
It almost certainly doesn't need to be 40V, probably 20V is
more like it... but I have seen some electric furnaces
masquerading as linear power supplies in the past.
The biggest problem I find in these supplies is trying to
fit a modern, cheap radial leaded electrolytic into a circuit
built for one of the old very expensive "computer grade
electrolytic" capacitor footprints. Typically, the new
capacitors are so much smaller that you need to come up with
a physical adapter to allow them to clamp into the space of
the original.
-Chuck Harris
Chuck wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my bench. I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for my Bench.
BUT....................
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of ac on the +5V line!!! This shows that C18 could be bad. BUT I had to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the value.............................13,000Mf at 40V....................................
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!! And of course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having to buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
Thanks,
Chuck McClurg
Communications, Ltd.
Carson City, NV
N7UVZ
|
Hi all this is easy? as I have just
been through the same problem but not for HP equipment
?
Kemet do a large rang of capacitors? dependent
on the size / mounting arrangement and terminals
?
For example? 40 v at 22000 uF?
at 36 * 82 mm? screw terminals part number ALS30223DE040?? ?or
stud mounting ALS31223DE040
Distributor ?is Mouser? please
note can and stud is connected to ¨C terminal
?
Regards Paul? B
?
?
Although since DigiKey sells aluminum electrolytics up to 2.2F at 20V,
at a cost of ~1/4k$ perhaps you do have 24F@40V. I imagine it would cost more
than a thousand bucks, but I didn¡¯t search anywhere else. I can¡¯t
imagine that those would let you discharge them very fast without destroying
?the metal electrode.
24F@40V is about 4% of a stick of dynamite if quickly discharged
¡ª but would any small (order of a soup can size) capacitor like that not
have relatively high ESR??
24 aug. 2018 kl. 01:38
skrev Kuba Ober <kuba@...>:
How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a
supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so,
I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro.
Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V. Modern part will
possibly be smaller than the one it will replaces. I have seen a 100F 48V array
about 20 years ago, and it was rack-sized. That rating was with all modules
connected in parallel, but they could be connected in series, too.?
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my
bench.? I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for
my Bench.
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of
ac on the +5V line!!!? This shows that C18 could be bad.? BUT? I
had to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the value.............................13,000Mf
at 40V....................................
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!!
And of course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having
to buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15883 - Release Date: 08/14/18
|
Although since DigiKey sells aluminum electrolytics up to 2.2F at 20V, at a cost of ~1/4k$ perhaps you do have 24F@40V. I imagine it would cost more than a thousand bucks, but I didn¡¯t search anywhere else. I can¡¯t imagine that those would let you discharge
them very fast without destroying ?the metal electrode.
24F@40V is about 4% of a stick of dynamite if quickly discharged ¡ª but would any small (order of a soup can size) capacitor like that not have relatively high ESR??
Cheers, Kuba
24 aug. 2018 kl. 01:38 skrev Kuba Ober < kuba@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so, I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro. Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V. Modern
part will possibly be smaller than the one it will replaces. I have seen a 100F 48V array about 20 years ago, and it was rack-sized. That rating was with all modules connected in parallel, but they could be connected in series, too.?
Good luck! ¡ª Kuba Ober
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my bench.? I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for my Bench.
?
BUT....................
?
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of ac on the +5V line!!!? This shows that C18 could be bad.? BUT? I had to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the value.............................13,000Mf
at 40V....................................
?
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!! And of course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
?
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
?
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having to buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
?
Thanks,
?
Chuck McClurg
Communications, Ltd.
Carson City, NV
N7UVZ
?
|
How big is that cap, size-wise? It¡¯s unlikely to be a supercapacitor for such voltage in anything older than a few years or so, I¡¯d bet. It¡¯s a typo in the PL, and a common use of M for micro. Happens all the time. You¡¯re looking at 24,000uF @ 40V. Modern part will possibly be smaller than the one it will replaces. I have seen a 100F 48V array about 20 years ago, and it was rack-sized. That rating was with all modules connected in parallel, but they could be connected in series, too.?
Good luck! ¡ª Kuba Ober
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my
bench.? I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for
my Bench.
?
BUT....................
?
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of ac
on the +5V line!!!? This shows that C18 could be bad.? BUT? I had
to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the
value.............................13,000Mf at
40V....................................
?
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!! And of
course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
?
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
?
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having to
buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
?
Thanks,
?
Chuck McClurg
Communications, Ltd.
Carson City, NV
N7UVZ
?
|
Digikey has some in that range, but they are between $40 and $85. Hope this link works.
Probably cheaper than a parts unit, and a parts unit may have the same bad parts. Maybe look on eBay but that is a crapshoot, but at that price....
Good luck Mark
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:36 PM, Chuck <j-mcclurg@...> wrote:
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my
bench.? I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for
my Bench.
?
BUT....................
?
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of ac
on the +5V line!!!? This shows that C18 could be bad.? BUT? I had
to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the
value.............................13,000Mf at
40V....................................
?
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!! And of
course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
?
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
?
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having to
buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
?
Thanks,
?
Chuck McClurg
Communications, Ltd.
Carson City, NV
N7UVZ
?
|
?
I have to thank you all for your advice on the Surge Suppressor for my
bench.? I will got through all the answers and see what will work best for
my Bench.
?
BUT....................
?
I was working on my 8656B tonight and found that I have about 1 VOLT of ac
on the +5V line!!!? This shows that C18 could be bad.? BUT? I had
to look it up in the Parts List as I was flabbergasted when I read the
value.............................13,000Mf at
40V....................................
?
I looked in the PL and, Yep, it says A10C19 is .013F at 40Volts!!!!! And of
course mine has to have been upgraded as it has a 24,000MF cap in it!!!!
?
Where/how am I going to come up with one of those I have no idea!
?
Hope someone can give me a clue as to what to do next, with out having to
buy another 8656B for "parts" and hope it will have a good C18!
?
Thanks,
?
Chuck McClurg
Communications, Ltd.
Carson City, NV
N7UVZ
?
|
I can help. Contact me off of the list.
Jeremy N6WFO
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 4:19 PM Phillip Potter < p.potter@...> wrote: Hi all. I will keep this short. Please respond to me off list.
I am looking for five feet 5060-0767 and tilt stand 1490-0030.
I¡¯ve searched on the inter web to no avail... if there is someone with extras, I¡¯d love to hear from you. Thanks!
Phil, N6OMM
|
Hi all. I will keep this short. Please respond to me off list.
I am looking for five feet 5060-0767 and tilt stand 1490-0030.
I¡¯ve searched on the inter web to no avail... if there is someone with extras, I¡¯d love to hear from you. Thanks!
Phil, N6OMM
|
Re: wanted: HP 70K MMS (hp 70000) software: whole system software, individual module software, ROM software, personality software, etc.)
Rick
This group's file area will certainly work? but if for some reason that doesn't work for you personally
KO4BB.com is the next best place
-DC
manuals@...
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On 8/23/2018 3:55 PM, garp6 wrote: hi,
Am asking for help from ?Hp / Agilent ?members ?to ?*deposit* ?{ i.e. UpLoad }, to an ?free & Open archive { perhaps, say: ko4BB Web Site, or other ? } :
Any & All HP 70K Software
? ? ? ?related to the HP 70K MMS (hp 70000 series) systems & its individual modules, ROM's, & personality cards, calibration & analysis, etc.
It would be nice to start working on porting this hp 70K MMS software for use on a modern laptop with a USB-GPIB adapter,
Hopefully it would be a group project, with all results posted to a Open & freely available Web Site.
If individuals have any of this software, please attempt to upload it & Let us all know where !
? ? >> ?so that we can attempt to move on this project !!
thank you,
rick
****
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
|
Re: wanted: HP 70K MMS (hp 70000) software: whole system software, individual module software, ROM software, personality software, etc.)
hi,
Am asking for help from ?Hp / Agilent ?members ?to ?*deposit* ?{ i.e. UpLoad }, to an ?free & Open archive { perhaps, say: ko4BB Web Site, or other ? } :
?
Any & All HP 70K Software
? ? ? ?related to the HP 70K MMS (hp 70000 series) systems & its individual modules, ROM's, & personality cards, calibration & analysis, etc.?
It would be nice to start working on porting this hp 70K MMS software for use on a modern laptop with a USB-GPIB adapter,
Hopefully it would be a group project, with all results posted to a Open & freely available Web Site.
If individuals have any of this software, please attempt to upload it & Let us all know where !
? ? >> ?so that we can attempt to move on this project !!
thank you,
rick
****
|
Re: Need HP part ID 1826-0092
That is correct - it is an LM-1558 in the TO-99 package,
available from Mouser as part number LM1558H/NOPB.
|
Re: R¨¦f. : [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Need HP part ID 1826-0092
Yes, very interesting. Do you know what the specs are? There are opamps with way better specs than a 1458 these days. Offset voltage orders of magnitude less, outputs that are rail to rail. Sometimes though a product may be designed to assume not rail to rail, so that may not be OK. I never designed anything that could not take the rail voltages of the previous stage, even if the parts were not supposed to be rail to rail.
Regards,
Mark
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:12 AM Artekmedia < manuals@...> wrote: Vladan
Interesting info ...how did you come by that bit of data?
-Dave
manuals@...
On 8/23/2018 10:37 AM, pianovt via Groups.Io wrote:
> The 1826-0092 is a selected 1458. It seems the selection was for input
> drift and output voltage swing.
>
> Vladan
>
--
Dave
Manuals@...
|
Re: R¨¦f. : [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Need HP part ID 1826-0092
Vladan
Interesting info ...how did you come by that bit of data?
-Dave
manuals@...
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Show quoted text
On 8/23/2018 10:37 AM, pianovt via Groups.Io wrote: The 1826-0092 is a selected 1458. It seems the selection was for input drift and output voltage swing.
Vladan
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
|
Re: HP 400 F/FL AC Voltmeter Service Manual wanted
As another? point of reference the serial number prefix is the date of the effective ENGINEERING CHANGE release date , NOT the year of manufacture.
dave
manuals@...
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On 8/23/2018 10:53 AM, Fred Thal wrote: Looking for a later edition Operating and Service Manual for the HP 400 F/FL AC Voltmeter.
Must have manual part number greater than 00400- 90016 (July 1974)
Please reply off-list stating manual part number, price and condition.
Thank you!
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
|
Re: R¨¦f. : [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Need HP part ID 1826-0092
Another thing about modern day "substitutes " is you? have to be aware that the "newer" devices because of the better high frequency response can have unexpected oscillations. No way to predict these but would not hurt to look at the circuit with a good HF scope after you install a substitute to be sure odd things are not going on
-Dave
manuals@...
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On 8/23/2018 10:57 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: There are much higher performing op-amps out there now, with the same pinout and cheap.
Peter
On Aug 23, 2018, at 10:37 AM, pianovt via Groups.Io <pianovt@... <mailto:pianovt@...>> wrote:
The 1826-0092 is a selected 1458. It seems the selection was for input drift and output voltage swing.
Vladan
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
|
Paul Bicknell
Jeremy Nichols
Phillip Potter