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Re: 8642B

John Miles
 

The only trace I can find of that one is at Manuals Plus ($155 for a paper
copy).

I have a .PDF of 08642-90224 with about half of the schematics from
08642-90226, if it'd help. This is a 20 MB file. The only complete set of
service manuals I have for the 8642B are the paper editions of 08642-90226
from Manuals Plus. I keep meaning to scan those, but haven't had time
(it'll be a huge job).

Do you know if there's any content in 08642-90020 that isn't also in
08642-90226?

-- john, KE5FX

I am looking for the On Site Service Manual for an 8642B. The part
number listed for the manual is 08642-90020.

Thanks
8642B

 

I am looking for the On Site Service Manual for an 8642B. The part
number listed for the manual is 08642-90020.

Thanks
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

[email protected]
 

This probably wouldn't work due to shrinkage, but if there isn't much load on the gears, couldn't you cast a replacement with a very short fiber filled epoxy? Assuming you had a set of good gears to start with.

-Dave

-------------- Original message --------------
From: lothar baier <microwaveengineer1968@...>
the gear shown on this page would be quite expensive, reason beein that this gear has two parts, the straight part is easy and can be hobbed, the other part that is slanted is not as easy, it cant be hobbed at least not on the hobber i have so the manufacturing steps would start making the blanks then using a dividing head and mill to cut the teeth on the slanted part one by one and then hob the other part
a gear like this would definatlt satisfy the 5hr estimate chuck gave, performing the indexing calculations for the dividing head alone is a b....
from first look i thought that the gears are made out of PVC and not delrin, usually PVC has softeners that evaporate over the years and then the part becomes brittle and cracks so seein actually cracked gears made me think of PVC.
I actually thinking about getting a 8640 Sometimes, altough its a old box it still has pretty darn good phasenoise which sometimes you needm its also very clean.
The priority has just shifted a bit because i recently got a SMHU58 and this one has a phasenoise floor thats almost as good maybe even better and goes to 4GHz
Metalworking to me is primarily a hobby so i dont look for financial gratification, yes normally you wouldnt make a part you can buy for $2 BUT as usual there are situations you will, one of them is when you want to make the part better, if you have a $2 gear thats made out of lousy chinese crap metal and is bound to break again in two month and you know by making one out of good high carbon steel you can have one that lasts 10years then you may think about it again, another thing is that what costs $2 today may not be available at all tomorrow !
The other reason is learning, if you want to learn certain operations or teach somebody else skills then you may not look at the pricetag or hours you spend !
Last but not least there is gratification, nothing is more gratifying then looking at something you have build with your own hands and equipment !
I deeply despise this "why do it if you can buy it cheaper" attitude, this has gotten us into the whole chinese mess to begin with ! i rather spend $50 in material and tools and know the money goes to US companies to make a gear then to spend $2 that go straight overseas supporting foreign jobs and encourage US companies to move even more jobs there !


pdxoregonpete <pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:
I'm sorry this has gone this way, I just offered to buy
the junker and if someone lived in Reno could pick it up
strip it keep the rest of it if they wanted to,
and send someone like Chuck or a retired mechanical
engineer I know draw up a set of plans then give them to
someone with a hobber, Then post the details on mfg.com and
maybe a Chinese shop would surprise us with the cost.

There's just one gear thats not a simple one, Fig 5 near
the bottom of the page


-pete

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "pdxoregonpete"
<pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:

Any in or near Reno ? there is a 8640B in really bad shape
on E-B*** starting bid $1, I'd toss in a couple $'s, if someone
got it and didn't have to pay shipping, and get a good set of
drawings for the gears, and let Lothar have them to see what
it would take to make a few sets.

-pete
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Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

John Miles
 

I'm sorry this has gone this way, I just offered to buy
the junker and if someone lived in Reno could pick it up
strip it keep the rest of it if they wanted to,
and send someone like Chuck or a retired mechanical
engineer I know draw up a set of plans then give them to
someone with a hobber, Then post the details on mfg.com and
maybe a Chinese shop would surprise us with the cost.
Sometimes it's not a matter of people being too cheap to offer to pay a
reasonable amount for things, or to contribute items for
reverse-engineering, but concern about the people who originally offered to
do the work losing interest, becoming overcommitted, or just plain flaking
out. I have been a victim -- and frankly, a perpetrator -- of all three
crimes against the hobby.

I'm sure that if someone actually does the work and offers a full set of
good-quality 8640 gears for $50 or less, the customers will be there. At
least one, anyway! (raises hand) At $100 or more you are competing with
parts-mule prices, so it doesn't make as much sense to create new gears if
that's what it would cost.

There's just one gear thats not a simple one, Fig 5 near
the bottom of the page

That's a really nice page. I hadn't heard the warning about not storing the
8640s face-up before.

-- john, KE5FX
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

lothar baier wrote:
i agree on the fact that hobbs are expensive but i have about 120 hobs that came with the machine,
That was a very lucky purchase. The hobs alone, if they are sharp and
any good, are worth easily 10 to 50 times what you paid for your machine.

Now, do you have any 48 dp hobs in your collection? If not, you will
be making, or buying some before you finish this project.

... Any lathe has
threading capabilities
Begging your pardon, but that is not true. Most lathes used in
industry are second operation machines, and they can only cut a
thread if you have a die already made. A hob is way out of their
league.

The only other lathes used these days are CNC lathe centers. Manual
machines show up only in small model shops, and hobby machine shops.

... and you need a lathe anyways to make the disks you cut your gears out of,

I included that in my guesstimate of the time to make a single gear.
Did you?

... you wont need any
heat treating of the hob since you are only cutting plastic,
Plastics, such as delrin and nylon seem soft and buttery, but they are never-the-less
abrasive when you cut them. An unhardened tool steel hob will make quite a few gears,
but the sharp edge will be gone very early on. Plastics such as nylon and delrin
cut with a very ragged edge unless the tool is scary sharp.

If you are only going to make a couple for yourself, sure, you can take short cuts.
If you are going to make them for others, you don't dare.

a good quality toolsteel will do for that Apparantly you
havent been much around machining, i really dont know where you get the 5hours from,
Ever tried making a hob? I have made a few, and 5 hours is a good estimate for
one hardened and ground tool steel hob made on manual machines. If you have ten
identical hobs to make, you can take advantage of some economy of scale, but to
make one hob, will take you about 5 hours.

setup of your hobber takes about
1hr max and that includes calculating your index and feed gears, the cutting process in itself is depending on the
ammount of teeths on your gear and the feedrate you can run, if you use forced air cooling on delrin or PVC you can
generally run a good rate so the overall time to cut is about 10minutes 30minutes the most ! i have cut gears on
hobbing machines in the past helping out in my brothers shop, those were gears used in CASE harvesters and they only
took about 1hr/piece to hob, keep min mind that they were much larger in size ! There is no such thing as a manual
hobber either, all hobbers are automatic,
Really now? So, you have a stock feeder that puts the new blank into
your hobber, and removes the old? You just walk away, and the bucket
gets filled with gears?

No? Then you have a manually operated hobber. Someone has to be in
attendance during the entire operation.

-Chuck Harris
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

hp used molded to spec gears
this was done i believe because of the high cost of machined metal gears
they used cheap nylon and probablky assumed that they would be availible as a cheap replacement part it they failed that could be easily replaced by the service dept.
the gears dont have to be exceptionly strong just turning some rotary switches.
that assxembly is the achiliies heal of the 8640b
loose switch wipersc can be locked down with a drop of epoxy "ive done it"
tektronix always has better mechanical quality then hp
hp use to have very good mechanical quality
tek was superior in my estimation

----- Original Message -----
From: lothar baier
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1


the gear shown on this page would be quite expensive, reason beein that this gear has two parts, the straight part is easy and can be hobbed, the other part that is slanted is not as easy, it cant be hobbed at least not on the hobber i have so the manufacturing steps would start making the blanks then using a dividing head and mill to cut the teeth on the slanted part one by one and then hob the other part
a gear like this would definatlt satisfy the 5hr estimate chuck gave, performing the indexing calculations for the dividing head alone is a b....
from first look i thought that the gears are made out of PVC and not delrin, usually PVC has softeners that evaporate over the years and then the part becomes brittle and cracks so seein actually cracked gears made me think of PVC.
I actually thinking about getting a 8640 Sometimes, altough its a old box it still has pretty darn good phasenoise which sometimes you needm its also very clean.
The priority has just shifted a bit because i recently got a SMHU58 and this one has a phasenoise floor thats almost as good maybe even better and goes to 4GHz
Metalworking to me is primarily a hobby so i dont look for financial gratification, yes normally you wouldnt make a part you can buy for $2 BUT as usual there are situations you will, one of them is when you want to make the part better, if you have a $2 gear thats made out of lousy chinese crap metal and is bound to break again in two month and you know by making one out of good high carbon steel you can have one that lasts 10years then you may think about it again, another thing is that what costs $2 today may not be available at all tomorrow !
The other reason is learning, if you want to learn certain operations or teach somebody else skills then you may not look at the pricetag or hours you spend !
Last but not least there is gratification, nothing is more gratifying then looking at something you have build with your own hands and equipment !
I deeply despise this "why do it if you can buy it cheaper" attitude, this has gotten us into the whole chinese mess to begin with ! i rather spend $50 in material and tools and know the money goes to US companies to make a gear then to spend $2 that go straight overseas supporting foreign jobs and encourage US companies to move even more jobs there !


pdxoregonpete <pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:
I'm sorry this has gone this way, I just offered to buy
the junker and if someone lived in Reno could pick it up
strip it keep the rest of it if they wanted to,
and send someone like Chuck or a retired mechanical
engineer I know draw up a set of plans then give them to
someone with a hobber, Then post the details on mfg.com and
maybe a Chinese shop would surprise us with the cost.

There's just one gear thats not a simple one, Fig 5 near
the bottom of the page


-pete

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "pdxoregonpete"
<pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:
>
> Any in or near Reno ? there is a 8640B in really bad shape
> on E-B*** starting bid $1, I'd toss in a couple $'s, if someone
> got it and didn't have to pay shipping, and get a good set of
> drawings for the gears, and let Lothar have them to see what
> it would take to make a few sets.
>
> -pete
>

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Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

lothar baier
 

the gear shown on this page would be quite expensive, reason beein that this gear has two parts, the straight part is easy and can be hobbed, the other part that is slanted is not as easy, it cant be hobbed at least not on the hobber i have so the manufacturing steps would start making the blanks then using a dividing head and mill to cut the teeth on the slanted part one by one and then hob the other part
a gear like this would definatlt satisfy the 5hr estimate chuck gave, performing the indexing calculations for the dividing head alone is a b....
from first look i thought that the gears are made out of PVC and not delrin, usually PVC has softeners that evaporate over the years and then the part becomes brittle and cracks so seein actually cracked gears made me think of PVC.
I actually thinking about getting a 8640 Sometimes, altough its a old box it still has pretty darn good phasenoise which sometimes you needm its also very clean.
The priority has just shifted a bit because i recently got a SMHU58 and this one has a phasenoise floor thats almost as good maybe even better and goes to 4GHz
Metalworking to me is primarily a hobby so i dont look for financial gratification, yes normally you wouldnt make a part you can buy for $2 BUT as usual there are situations you will, one of them is when you want to make the part better, if you have a $2 gear thats made out of lousy chinese crap metal and is bound to break again in two month and you know by making one out of good high carbon steel you can have one that lasts 10years then you may think about it again, another thing is that what costs $2 today may not be available at all tomorrow !
The other reason is learning, if you want to learn certain operations or teach somebody else skills then you may not look at the pricetag or hours you spend !
Last but not least there is gratification, nothing is more gratifying then looking at something you have build with your own hands and equipment !
I deeply despise this "why do it if you can buy it cheaper" attitude, this has gotten us into the whole chinese mess to begin with ! i rather spend $50 in material and tools and know the money goes to US companies to make a gear then to spend $2 that go straight overseas supporting foreign jobs and encourage US companies to move even more jobs there !


pdxoregonpete <pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:
I'm sorry this has gone this way, I just offered to buy
the junker and if someone lived in Reno could pick it up
strip it keep the rest of it if they wanted to,
and send someone like Chuck or a retired mechanical
engineer I know draw up a set of plans then give them to
someone with a hobber, Then post the details on mfg.com and
maybe a Chinese shop would surprise us with the cost.

There's just one gear thats not a simple one, Fig 5 near
the bottom of the page


-pete

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "pdxoregonpete"
<pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:

Any in or near Reno ? there is a 8640B in really bad shape
on E-B*** starting bid $1, I'd toss in a couple $'s, if someone
got it and didn't have to pay shipping, and get a good set of
drawings for the gears, and let Lothar have them to see what
it would take to make a few sets.

-pete




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Re: 8566B YTM

lothar baier
 

i dont know of anyone right of the batt but if you want to i can take a look, i have a good lab and bonding capabilities, if i can get the mixer to work you pay me for the diodes and an hour of labor ( about $70)


Tom Dawson <wb3akd@...> wrote:
Is anyone refurbishing the YTM's from 8566b's these days?

Looks like mine is smoked, about -27 dB amplitude error above 2 GHz.

regards

Tom




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Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

lothar baier
 

i agree on the fact that hobbs are expensive but i have about 120 hobs that came with the machine,
Any lathe has threading capabilities and you need a lathe anyways to make the disks you cut your gears out of, you wont need any heat treating of the hob since you are only cutting plastic, a good quality toolsteel will do for that
Apparantly you havent been much around machining, i really dont know where you get the 5hours from, setup of your hobber takes about 1hr max and that includes calculating your index and feed gears, the cutting process in itself is depending on the ammount of teeths on your gear and the feedrate you can run, if you use forced air cooling on delrin or PVC you can generally run a good rate so the overall time to cut is about 10minutes 30minutes the most ! i have cut gears on hobbing machines in the past helping out in my brothers shop, those were gears used in CASE harvesters and they only took about 1hr/piece to hob, keep min mind that they were much larger in size !
There is no such thing as a manual hobber either, all hobbers are automatic, after setting it up you pull a lever and the machine automatically does its thing, after the gear is cut it returns to its starting position.
On low precision gears like this you can take a rod thats several inches long and cut the teeth on it, after you get done you pack it on the lathe and cut it in the individual gears.


Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
Bob Groschen wrote:
....
Why would you
want to hobb them?
Because it's cheaper than the alternatives? Because it's his/her
hobby? Because they want to?
Cheaper, it is not. Hobbing machines require hobbs to work. Hobbs
are very expensive to buy, and difficult to make. At a minimum, you
need a lathe with threading capability, and a milling machine. If
you are planning on making more than a couple gears, you will need
heat treating capability, and a very fancy grinder to sharpen the hobb.

Oh, and about 5-6 hours of time if you are using manual machines, and
you know what you are doing.

I rebuild test equipment because I want to. If need had anything to
do with it, my collection would be reduced to a tiny fraction of
its size.
That's great. I rebuild for need and want too.

If you recall, 5 or 6 months ago, I offered to spec all of the
8640B gears, put the detailed drawings and part numbers in the
files section of this group, for anyone to use, and to make gear
sets available, for a reasonable (read cheap) price. All I asked
in return was for someone to buy/give me an 8640B option 1,2,3...
complete, but in unknown electrical condition to use in making the
measurements.

Nobody was interested. So, not having an 8640B to work from,
I did nothing.
Apparently I'm not the only one who believes that this effort you propose
is not worth the expense in acquiring and shipping a 8640B, particularily
one with the most desirable options. If stripped of options, an 8640B
can be had for about $100- $150. Adding in those options easily doubles
the price, for a dead or cirppled one. Shipping alone would cost $60 - $75
on top of the acquisition price.
So, let's see, at the time I made this offer, there were at least a half dozen
of you guys scrabbling about for gears, or gear fixes. That works out to what
about $30 each? I have no problem giving away that many sets of gears.

An 8640B is about 50 lbs in its birthday suit and UPS is famous for
pulverizing anything this heavy. I have limited experience with FedEx and
items this heavy, but they appear to be better than UPS for a slightly
higher shipping charge.
If you pack test equipment like it is trash, then that is what you will get when
it passes through the shipping system. I have shipped numerous big items, like
141T's, and 8640B's UPS, and they have never broken even one. It really isn't
all that hard to pack this stuff properly. UPS will even tell you how to do
it.

So you propose exchanging a couple hundred dollar generator for the
info on what, a half dozen off-the-shelf gears? I'm sorry Chuck, but
for me that's a stretch. For the same effort, I could ship just the gears
to any of a half dozen mechanical engineering friends, get the same
info and still get the gears back.
Then do so. You have the gears, and the desire. What's stopping you?

I for one don't give a rat's ass for the drawings.
The drawings were for the future. HP gave you all of the HP part numbers,
but they are no longer any good. McMaster-Carr part numbers will one day
change too, but a drawing specifying the diametral pitches, tooth counts,
width, and any modifications that may be necessary to the hubs would be good
forever.

All I would need is a
generic mechanical description of the part(s). McMaster-Carr P/N's
would be nice (assuming they have them) but not necessary, as I can use
catalogs & the internet as well as the next person.
That's cool Bob, but I don't have an 8640B, and I don't particularly want one.
You apparently do, so don't be selfish, tear it apart, and spec the gears.

You won't see one dime for your effort, you might break your 8640B in the
process, but you will be making a whole bunch of guys happy.

-Chuck Harris




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Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

pdxoregonpete
 

I'm sorry this has gone this way, I just offered to buy
the junker and if someone lived in Reno could pick it up
strip it keep the rest of it if they wanted to,
and send someone like Chuck or a retired mechanical
engineer I know draw up a set of plans then give them to
someone with a hobber, Then post the details on mfg.com and
maybe a Chinese shop would surprise us with the cost.

There's just one gear thats not a simple one, Fig 5 near
the bottom of the page


-pete






--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "pdxoregonpete"
<pdxoregonpete@...> wrote:

Any in or near Reno ? there is a 8640B in really bad shape
on E-B*** starting bid $1, I'd toss in a couple $'s, if someone
got it and didn't have to pay shipping, and get a good set of
drawings for the gears, and let Lothar have them to see what
it would take to make a few sets.

-pete
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

lothar baier wrote:
Some things or actually a lot of things we do for a hobby have nothing to do with logic, sometimes you just do things
for fun, i have about $350 in the hobber including all acessories, i bought it not to make money but i figured that
its a nice complement to my metal hobby shop and $350 is a ammount that i can justify spending on a hobby !
I wouldn't argue against that, I have tens of thousands of dollars
in my machine shop. But I still won't waste my time hobbing a
gear that I can buy for $2. I would rather spend my shop time on
things that would be too expensive to purchase, if I could buy
them at all.

Why would
somebody want to fix testequipment or build a ham radio rig ? it cheaper to buy especially if you put in all the time
you spend - you do it for fun and to learn something, you gain alot of valuable skills by practicing - as it says
practice makes perfect, the other reason is that you have control over your parts and even if they are not available
anymore down the road you can still make them and fix your equipment, also you can make them better by using more
advanced materials. Plastic gears normally are not hobbed except if you use delrin,
You are in luck, the HP gears are already delrin on brass hubs.

Like nylon, delrin shrinks continually. Unfortunately, the brass hubs do not, so
given time, the gear will break at one of its roots.

PVC is a pain because it leaves a

I am not sure what PVC has to do with anything proposed.

bunch of burrs that need to be removed, the other side of PVC is that it becomes brittle over the years, normally the
gears HP used were made in a very crude way - injection molding which has a high yield and is cheaper in Qty. My idea
is to either use delrin or aluminum, the forces on the flanks of those gears are not very high and the rotating speed
is very slow so by far the specs are no challenge. All you need to know to make them is the number of teeth , the
diameter and the pressure angle, height and id of the gear.
And that information is what I was going to provide to the group.

If you hobb the gears, and make them available for sale, you
will quickly discover that you have to charge something for your
time, tooling and materials. Suddenly, you will see why metal
gears are so damned expensive... custom gears even more so.

If you are using manually operated machines (at $350, I think you are),
between blanking the gears, and hobbing the teeth, you will have several
hours in each gear you make.

US microwave engineers with experience are making what these days? $90K
to $130K? That works out to $40 to $60/hour paid to the engineer. They
cost their companies 2 to 3 times that much.

I don't think the guys that hang out on this group are going to be willing
to pay you $200 per gear. If you charge $5 per gear, your wife will divorce
you. I offered several gear *sets* at the cost of one broken 8640B OPT/1/2/3.

My price exceeded what the market would bear... even though I would essentially
be working for free.

-Chuck Harris
8566B YTM

 

Is anyone refurbishing the YTM's from 8566b's these days?

Looks like mine is smoked, about -27 dB amplitude error above 2 GHz.



regards

Tom
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

Bob Groschen wrote:
...
Why would you
want to hobb them?
Because it's cheaper than the alternatives? Because it's his/her
hobby? Because they want to?
Cheaper, it is not. Hobbing machines require hobbs to work. Hobbs
are very expensive to buy, and difficult to make. At a minimum, you
need a lathe with threading capability, and a milling machine. If
you are planning on making more than a couple gears, you will need
heat treating capability, and a very fancy grinder to sharpen the hobb.

Oh, and about 5-6 hours of time if you are using manual machines, and
you know what you are doing.

I rebuild test equipment because I want to. If need had anything to
do with it, my collection would be reduced to a tiny fraction of
its size.
That's great. I rebuild for need and want too.

If you recall, 5 or 6 months ago, I offered to spec all of the
8640B gears, put the detailed drawings and part numbers in the
files section of this group, for anyone to use, and to make gear
sets available, for a reasonable (read cheap) price. All I asked
in return was for someone to buy/give me an 8640B option 1,2,3...
complete, but in unknown electrical condition to use in making the
measurements.

Nobody was interested. So, not having an 8640B to work from,
I did nothing.
Apparently I'm not the only one who believes that this effort you propose
is not worth the expense in acquiring and shipping a 8640B, particularily
one with the most desirable options. If stripped of options, an 8640B
can be had for about $100- $150. Adding in those options easily doubles
the price, for a dead or cirppled one. Shipping alone would cost $60 - $75
on top of the acquisition price.
So, let's see, at the time I made this offer, there were at least a half dozen
of you guys scrabbling about for gears, or gear fixes. That works out to what
about $30 each? I have no problem giving away that many sets of gears.

An 8640B is about 50 lbs in its birthday suit and UPS is famous for
pulverizing anything this heavy. I have limited experience with FedEx and
items this heavy, but they appear to be better than UPS for a slightly
higher shipping charge.
If you pack test equipment like it is trash, then that is what you will get when
it passes through the shipping system. I have shipped numerous big items, like
141T's, and 8640B's UPS, and they have never broken even one. It really isn't
all that hard to pack this stuff properly. UPS will even tell you how to do
it.

So you propose exchanging a couple hundred dollar generator for the
info on what, a half dozen off-the-shelf gears? I'm sorry Chuck, but
for me that's a stretch. For the same effort, I could ship just the gears
to any of a half dozen mechanical engineering friends, get the same
info and still get the gears back.
Then do so. You have the gears, and the desire. What's stopping you?

I for one don't give a rat's ass for the drawings.
The drawings were for the future. HP gave you all of the HP part numbers,
but they are no longer any good. McMaster-Carr part numbers will one day
change too, but a drawing specifying the diametral pitches, tooth counts,
width, and any modifications that may be necessary to the hubs would be good
forever.

All I would need is a
generic mechanical description of the part(s). McMaster-Carr P/N's
would be nice (assuming they have them) but not necessary, as I can use
catalogs & the internet as well as the next person.
That's cool Bob, but I don't have an 8640B, and I don't particularly want one.
You apparently do, so don't be selfish, tear it apart, and spec the gears.

You won't see one dime for your effort, you might break your 8640B in the
process, but you will be making a whole bunch of guys happy.

-Chuck Harris
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

lothar baier
 

Some things or actually a lot of things we do for a hobby have nothing to do with logic, sometimes you just do things for fun, i have about $350 in the hobber including all acessories, i bought it not to make money but i figured that its a nice complement to my metal hobby shop and $350 is a ammount that i can justify spending on a hobby !
Why would somebody want to fix testequipment or build a ham radio rig ? it cheaper to buy especially if you put in all the time you spend - you do it for fun and to learn something, you gain alot of valuable skills by practicing - as it says practice makes perfect, the other reason is that you have control over your parts and even if they are not available anymore down the road you can still make them and fix your equipment, also you can make them better by using more advanced materials.
Plastic gears normally are not hobbed except if you use delrin, PVC is a pain because it leaves a bunch of burrs that need to be removed, the other side of PVC is that it becomes brittle over the years, normally the gears HP used were made in a very crude way - injection molding which has a high yield and is cheaper in Qty.
My idea is to either use delrin or aluminum, the forces on the flanks of those gears are not very high and the rotating speed is very slow so by far the specs are no challenge.
All you need to know to make them is the number of teeth , the diameter and the pressure angle, height and id of the gear.

Bob Groschen <rpgroschen@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Harris" <cfharris@...>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968
test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

All of the gears are available off the shelf.
Yes, this is correct.

Why would you
want to hobb them?
Because it's cheaper than the alternatives? Because it's his/her
hobby? Because they want to?

I rebuild test equipment because I want to. If need had anything to
do with it, my collection would be reduced to a tiny fraction of
its size.

If you recall, 5 or 6 months ago, I offered to spec all of the
8640B gears, put the detailed drawings and part numbers in the
files section of this group, for anyone to use, and to make gear
sets available, for a reasonable (read cheap) price. All I asked
in return was for someone to buy/give me an 8640B option 1,2,3...
complete, but in unknown electrical condition to use in making the
measurements.

Nobody was interested. So, not having an 8640B to work from,
I did nothing.
Apparently I'm not the only one who believes that this effort you propose
is not worth the expense in acquiring and shipping a 8640B, particularily
one with the most desirable options. If stripped of options, an 8640B
can be had for about $100- $150. Adding in those options easily doubles
the price, for a dead or cirppled one. Shipping alone would cost $60 - $75
on top of the acquisition price.

An 8640B is about 50 lbs in its birthday suit and UPS is famous for
pulverizing anything this heavy. I have limited experience with FedEx and
items this heavy, but they appear to be better than UPS for a slightly
higher shipping charge.

So you propose exchanging a couple hundred dollar generator for the
info on what, a half dozen off-the-shelf gears? I'm sorry Chuck, but
for me that's a stretch. For the same effort, I could ship just the gears
to any of a half dozen mechanical engineering friends, get the same
info and still get the gears back.

I for one don't give a rat's ass for the drawings. All I would need is a
generic mechanical description of the part(s). McMaster-Carr P/N's
would be nice (assuming they have them) but not necessary, as I can use
catalogs & the internet as well as the next person.

Best Regards,

Bob Groschen
Monument, CO





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Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Harris" <cfharris@...>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1


All of the gears are available off the shelf.
Yes, this is correct.

Why would you
want to hobb them?
Because it's cheaper than the alternatives? Because it's his/her
hobby? Because they want to?

I rebuild test equipment because I want to. If need had anything to
do with it, my collection would be reduced to a tiny fraction of
its size.

If you recall, 5 or 6 months ago, I offered to spec all of the
8640B gears, put the detailed drawings and part numbers in the
files section of this group, for anyone to use, and to make gear
sets available, for a reasonable (read cheap) price. All I asked
in return was for someone to buy/give me an 8640B option 1,2,3...
complete, but in unknown electrical condition to use in making the
measurements.

Nobody was interested. So, not having an 8640B to work from,
I did nothing.
Apparently I'm not the only one who believes that this effort you propose
is not worth the expense in acquiring and shipping a 8640B, particularily
one with the most desirable options. If stripped of options, an 8640B
can be had for about $100- $150. Adding in those options easily doubles
the price, for a dead or cirppled one. Shipping alone would cost $60 - $75
on top of the acquisition price.

An 8640B is about 50 lbs in its birthday suit and UPS is famous for
pulverizing anything this heavy. I have limited experience with FedEx and
items this heavy, but they appear to be better than UPS for a slightly
higher shipping charge.

So you propose exchanging a couple hundred dollar generator for the
info on what, a half dozen off-the-shelf gears? I'm sorry Chuck, but
for me that's a stretch. For the same effort, I could ship just the gears
to any of a half dozen mechanical engineering friends, get the same
info and still get the gears back.

I for one don't give a rat's ass for the drawings. All I would need is a
generic mechanical description of the part(s). McMaster-Carr P/N's
would be nice (assuming they have them) but not necessary, as I can use
catalogs & the internet as well as the next person.

Best Regards,

Bob Groschen
Monument, CO
Re: opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

 

All of the gears are available off the shelf. Why would you
want to hobb them?

If you recall, 5 or 6 months ago, I offered to spec all of the
8640B gears, put the detailed drawings and part numbers in the
files section of this group, for anyone to use, and to make gear
sets available, for a reasonable (read cheap) price. All I asked
in return was for someone to buy/give me an 8640B option 1,2,3...
complete, but in unknown electrical condition to use in making the
measurements.

Nobody was interested. So, not having an 8640B to work from,
I did nothing.

Has something changed?

-Chuck Harris


pdxoregonpete wrote:

Any in or near Reno ? there is a 8640B in really bad shape
on E-B*** starting bid $1, I'd toss in a couple $'s, if someone
got it and didn't have to pay shipping, and get a good set of
drawings for the gears, and let Lothar have them to see what
it would take to make a few sets.
-pete
Yahoo! Groups Links
opertunity to have uWaveEngineer1968 test his gear hobber - 8640B for $1

pdxoregonpete
 

Any in or near Reno ? there is a 8640B in really bad shape
on E-B*** starting bid $1, I'd toss in a couple $'s, if someone
got it and didn't have to pay shipping, and get a good set of
drawings for the gears, and let Lothar have them to see what
it would take to make a few sets.

-pete
mechanical parts

microwaveengineer1968
 

Well i always believe in sharing when i find something good, usually im
not for promoting any company on a newsgroup but im using this one for
quite awhile and i think some of you guys may find it usefull !

In my line of work you require a lot of mechanical parts mostly
housings, horn antennas or filters all of them requiring a fair ammount
of machining mostly lathe and milling, altough i like pittling around
with machines -and im quite profficient in using them- it is sometimes
too time consuming or your home machines dont have the accuracy.
There is a website i discovered called MFG.COM basically you upload a
drawing and the qty desired and then shops from around the country bid
on the job, you can then select the cheapest one and award the job,
they have a feedback system similar to ebay so you can look at what
other people had to say about the guy
I know this is not testequipment related but i think its a good
website, i got most of my housings machined for $10 or less, the
registration is free.
Re: 8510B software update

lothar baier
 

the tape is matched to the serial# of the unit, you can swap the board but not the tape, you would have to find the area where the serial# information resides on the board and then change the serial# to match the other card , essentially "clone" the card, then it would work , usually HP put this info in a EEPROM usually a XICOR part, but i dont know what part they used on the 8510B

jfphp <jfphp@...> wrote: I have recently got a 8510B software 4.0 with option time domain and
would like to upgrade (the display)to a more recent version. A friend
has the latest, 6.35 with the same option : we have swapped the EEPROM
boards and, no problem, I am running his latest version : conclusion,
the CPU and ROM boards are not matched. He downloaded his latest op
system on 2 cassettes but impossible to download the cassettes to
upgrade my display. What is the trick ? All the CPU and EEPROM boards
have some PAL and EPROM with exactly the same part number.The brute
solution would be to desolder all the EEPROMS (2X2X9 chips) and copy
each separately, a lot of pins and time consuming, perhaps with a flame
thrower but I am not sure if the friend will agree...... Is there a
more intelligent solution to overcome the protection ? Thanks





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8510B software update

 

I have recently got a 8510B software 4.0 with option time domain and
would like to upgrade (the display)to a more recent version. A friend
has the latest, 6.35 with the same option : we have swapped the EEPROM
boards and, no problem, I am running his latest version : conclusion,
the CPU and ROM boards are not matched. He downloaded his latest op
system on 2 cassettes but impossible to download the cassettes to
upgrade my display. What is the trick ? All the CPU and EEPROM boards
have some PAL and EPROM with exactly the same part number.The brute
solution would be to desolder all the EEPROMS (2X2X9 chips) and copy
each separately, a lot of pins and time consuming, perhaps with a flame
thrower but I am not sure if the friend will agree...... Is there a
more intelligent solution to overcome the protection ? Thanks
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