Re: (OFF TOPIC) Manual request
?
Siggi
Thanks for the plug....But what Dave M is looking for is a
BALLANTINE 3440A? ( which we don't have) The one you saw was which
we do have is an? HP 3440A which would be more on topic :-) Ah, my bad, one day maybe I'll learn to read to the end... The HP 3440A looks like a pretty cool instrument though :).
|
Gents
There is no argument that one has be very careful when working around HV circuits. 300+ DC rail falls into this category. Soooo, to address this I just ordered a ADP25 differential probe good to 1300V rail to rail. I'll post screen grabs once it arrives. Plan is to do before and after comparison.
Going forward I plan to replace C2-C5 590uF/200Vdc caps with CDE 381LR series snap terminal 680uF/200Vdc caps. I'll have to modify PCBA to accept 10mm lead spacing of 381LR. Original Mallory 90/45mm caps use an oddball 6 lead arrangements and no longer available. CDE 381LR series were specifically designed for high ripple application and are 105deg C rated.
|
Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
Hi John
Thank you for your suggestion, however, the fault in the 8648B is not in the RF portion but in the uP display/control circuitry which is totally different between the 8920A and the 8648B.
I appreciate your input.
73
George G6HIG
________________________________________
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of johngord@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: 29 April 2017 22:43
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
George,
Some of the boards in the 8648 are very similar to those in the 8920. The Component Level Information Packet Manual Part Number: 08920-90107, has schematics. It is (or was) on Keysight.com.
--John Gord
---In hp_agilent_equipment@..., <g_einst@...> wrote :
Hi Don
I now understand your email, having looked at the available HP manual, I will probe around the display connector and the RPG connector.
However I suspect that without component level information I will be unable to get very far. Every search comes back to the same document, HP part number 08648-90048 which as you are aware has no component level information.
Many thanks for your efforts
George G6HIG
|
My comment was not made regarding the use of a scope, but, for safety when working on any circuity that is directly connected to the incoming mains/utility supply. It was not made to question your suggested strategy. George G6HIG ________________________________________ From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of Chuck Harris cfharris@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...> Sent: 30 April 2017 16:38 To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP6034 PSU Q1, 2 fet No, sorry it isn't. There are lots of strategies that will work just as safely. Using a pair of adequately rated 10x probes, and the ADD invert mode on your scope is one of them, and is precisely why that mode exists on virtually all scopes. Using your probes differentially allows you to keep all of the DUT's groundings and other protections in place, which an isolation transformer does not. -Chuck Harris george g_einst@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: Hi Chuck
An isolation transformer is required equipment no just a good idea.
73
George G6HIG ________________________________________ From:
|
No, sorry it isn't.
There are lots of strategies that will work just as safely.
Using a pair of adequately rated 10x probes, and the ADD invert
mode on your scope is one of them, and is precisely why that mode
exists on virtually all scopes.
Using your probes differentially allows you to keep all of the
DUT's groundings and other protections in place, which an isolation
transformer does not.
-Chuck Harris
george g_einst@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Chuck
An isolation transformer is required equipment no just a good idea.
73
George G6HIG ________________________________________ From:
|
Hi Chuck An isolation transformer is required equipment no just a good idea. 73 George G6HIG ________________________________________ From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of Chuck Harris cfharris@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...> Sent: 30 April 2017 02:18 To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP6034 PSU Q1, 2 fet That is typical of a problem where a full wave doubler is working half wave. This is one of those jobs where an isolation transformer is a good idea. You can get by without by using two probes, and putting your scope in "ADD + INVERT" mode. Leave the probe grounds floating. Check that your probe is good for more than 350V. -Chuck Harris rfmaster89@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: Known good HP 6038A
#1
Vout = 23.5Vdc
Iout = 5.5Amps
Input Filter out:
Vdc = 317.5Vdc
Vac = 1.48Vac (HP6034A = 12.2Vac!)
#2
Vout = 23.5Vdc
Iout = 9.5Amps
Input Filter out:
Vdc = 310.9Vdc
Vac = 2.58Vac
I can call input C2-5 as leaky.
//RF
|
Re: HP/Agilent 8563E Spectrum Analyzer under Remote Control
Hi Tom, I have now read the Newest AN 150 and in particular a part to which
you earlier referred (Thanks for that). Section was about Detector Types,
and how that relates to the Data Dump. It's somewhat more complex than I
originally believed, but it certainly clarifies what's going on. I now have
to digest that stuff and no doubt make some changes to how I do the tests.
Already I now know the source of signal peaks jumping back and forward a
couple of cells from my predicted position. I think we now are a lot closer
to "being on the same page", thanks to your input. Good Luck - Bill Lauchlan
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 3:18 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP/Agilent 8563E Spectrum Analyzer under
Remote Control
Hi Bill...
Regarding App Note 150, I have a printed version from 1989 which is the one
that Blake Peterson wrote, which is 68 pages. I also have an Agilent version
which was the re-write done after he retired, which runs 120 pages ( I knew
one of them had a lot of pages, but I was incorrect about there being 150).
I think that Later, there was a decision to split that long version into
multiple documents which could explain why your version has 89 pages. Both
versions in my possession have the same document number, 5952-0292.
According to my 1989 version, the Marker Counter works at the IF frequency,
but adds counts from the other LO's to get the displayed value, so the L&R
variance is not a factor. It also shows an example of the analyzer missing
or under-reporting many of the spikes from a comb generator.
I have always heard it recommended by the factory for that series of
analyzers that if you want to know the frequency with any accuracy, your
best shot is to use the Marker Counter function. Simply place the marker on
the displayed peak you wish to measure, then enable the MC function. It may
not be quite as fast but you will have a more accurate result. So the
challenge may become putting the marker on the peak you want if your
procedure does not provide any operator input to that choice.
If you look at the marker frequency readout accuracy spec vs. the Marker
Counter spec, that should help explain why the counter is a better choice.
It eliminates % of span and % of RBW from the accuracy spec.
No problem with trying to help you; that's what this forum is about.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
|
Re: 3478A multimeter Spare display needed
No it doesnt seem to be. However one of the members here kindly offerd me one from his broken one. ---- 'Tom Miller' tmiller11147@... [hp_agilent_equipment] skrev ----
?
?
I am pretty sure it is the same display as used in the HP
3488A and they can be had cheap.
?
?
HTH
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 3:40
PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3478A
multimeter Spare display needed
?
Hi
Does anyone have an idea on where to find a replacement display for
the 3478A multimeter.
Thanks
|
(OFF TOPIC) Manual request
Siggi
Thanks for the plug....But what Dave M is looking for is a
BALLANTINE 3440A??? ( which we don't have) The one you saw was which
we do have is an??? HP 3440A which would be more on topic :-)
Dave
I WISH I could find a copy of the Ballantine 3440??? I have several
people waiting for a copy as well
On 4/30/2017 7:10 AM, Sigur???ur
???sgeirsson siggi@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
???
Looks like Artek Manuals has it. See <>.
???
Anyone have a copy (any form - PDF,
original, copy, etc.) for the Ballantine
3440A RF Millivoltmeter???? I can't find any
listings on any of the usual manual sites,
nor???on Ebay..
I'd prefer a PDF copy, but if it's not
too large, I could borrow, scan and return a
paper copy.???
If you have a paper copy for sale, please
send me your asking price and shipping cost
to zip 35750.
???
Dave M
--
Dave
Manuals@...
|
Looks like Artek Manuals has it. See <>.
?
Anyone have a copy (any form - PDF, original, copy, etc.) for the
Ballantine 3440A RF Millivoltmeter?? I can't find any listings on any of
the usual manual sites, nor?on Ebay..
I'd prefer a PDF copy, but if it's not too large, I could borrow, scan and
return a paper copy.?
If you have a paper copy for sale, please send me your asking price and
shipping cost to zip 35750.
?
Dave M
|
Forwarded from Tekscopes.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 29 April 2017 22:52
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Repair rights
Wasn't aware of this - and the move to ensure repaireability. Gone are the days of the big blue books that came Tektronic equipment! I'd encourage everyone to get involved with this.
Hugh
------------------------------------
Posted by: hugh <hugh@...>
------------------------------------
|
That is typical of a problem where a full wave
doubler is working half wave.
This is one of those jobs where an isolation transformer
is a good idea.
You can get by without by using two probes, and putting
your scope in "ADD + INVERT" mode. Leave the probe
grounds floating.
Check that your probe is good for more than 350V.
-Chuck Harris
rfmaster89@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Known good HP 6038A
#1
Vout = 23.5Vdc
Iout = 5.5Amps
Input Filter out:
Vdc = 317.5Vdc
Vac = 1.48Vac (HP6034A = 12.2Vac!)
#2
Vout = 23.5Vdc
Iout = 9.5Amps
Input Filter out:
Vdc = 310.9Vdc
Vac = 2.58Vac
I can call input C2-5 as leaky.
//RF
|
Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
George, Some of the boards in the 8648 are very similar to those in the 8920. ?The Component Level Information Packet?Manual Part Number: 08920-90107, has schematics. ?It is (or was) on Keysight.com.? --John Gord ---In hp_agilent_equipment@..., <g_einst@...> wrote : Hi Don
I now understand your email, having looked at the available HP manual, I will probe around the display connector and the RPG connector.
However I suspect that without component level information I will be unable to get very far. Every search comes back to the same document, HP part number 08648-90048 which as you are aware has no component level information.
Many thanks for your efforts
George G6HIG
?
|
Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
Hi Don
I now understand your email, having looked at the available HP manual, I will probe around the display connector and the RPG connector.
However I suspect that without component level information I will be unable to get very far. Every search comes back to the same document, HP part number 08648-90048 which as you are aware has no component level information.
Many thanks for your efforts
George G6HIG
________________________________________
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of dondoughty@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: 29 April 2017 17:52
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
George G6HIG,
Looks like a useful instrument,
I found several manuals searching "agilent 8648b manual."
Also, try looking at the uP and the memory circuits supported by the backup battery.
An extension card would be useful, some of the old HP Instruments had one stored in the card cage.
Are the keyboard and display being scanned by the uP?
The best place to check is the keyboard,
here is a clip from the manual, page 5a-5 (203):
"The front panel contains two RPGs (rotary pulse generators), the keyboard, and the
display.
The two RPGs, one for frequency and one for amplitude, are connected directly to the
controller on the A3 board. Each RPG receives power and ground from the controller. Each
RPG returns two out-of-phase pulsed lines when the knob is turned.
The keyboard is a matrix of keys as shown in Table 5-1. on page 5-6. The keyboard is
scanned by the controller. Scanning pulses are sent alternately to the keyboard rows and
are read back on the columns when a key is pressed. The controller determines which key
was pressed based on the row that was pulsed and the column that the signal was
returned on. The column lines are pulled-up through resistors and are pulsed low when a
key is pressed. The row output latches are open-collector, therefore, pulses can not be seen
until the circuit is completed by pressing a key. The keyboard connects directly to the
controller at A3J3.
The display is driven by the controller through data latches on the A3 assembly. The
display control lines are eight bi-directional data lines, an enable clock line, a read/write
line, and a data/instruction line. The other lines going to the display are the display +5 V
and ground. The enable clock line is high during every data interchange. The read/write
line is high for a read operation and low for a write operation. The data/instruction line is
high for a data operation and low for an instruction operation. The data/instruction line is
used only during write operations. Data refers to the character data while instruction
refers to commands, such as return or space. When interchanging data, the controller
polls the display for acknowledgment.
This means that if the display is disconnected the controller will cease to attempt operations."
|
Re: HP8970A automatic Noise Gain meter
Hi Chuck, Thanks for your comments on this. I will seek for a suitable battery to replace it. Studying the RAM chip data sheet learns that the data retention threshold voltage is 2V . Therefore 2,8V was to my opinion not a critical value, i measured directly on the supply pin of the RAM chip. But it is good practice to use a fresh battery, i agree with you.
Meanwhile i worked on the cabling as advised and the result is that I am happy again. The 8970A is working again and seems to be reliable, each power cycle results in a normal boot procedure. I started ?service ?routine 91 ?to test the displays and this yields a good result. This also underlines the frontpanel is ok and the problem was a bad contact in the wiring or connector.
I conclude that the problem is solved and i will remember the hints given by all of you.
Many thanks, Herman, PA0VRE.
|
Hi
The DC voltage across the AC to DC stage storage capacitors will give a good indication of the health of the storage capacitors as you vary the output load. These capacitors must be high ripple current rated with a low ESR, If they are not 105 degree Centigrade rated and from a known manufacturer be very wary of them.
73
George G6HIG
________________________________________
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of rfmaster89@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: 29 April 2017 18:18
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP6034 PSU Q1, 2 fet
Further updates, with some surprises..
I've performed PSU load test while monitoring output of the 'Input filter'. DVM (fluke 70) was utilized since a single ended scope probe is a wrong tool for this task. I'll need to order differential HV probe to do this right. Output from HP6034A was fed into HP6060A DC load. PSU was operated in CV mode, while 6060A was programed to a range of currents: 0.2 to 6Amps.
In the end I measured AC ripple riding on top of 300 volt rail. Sure enough there is a bit of AC ripple, but is it normal or excessive?? At 6Amps power supply folded and front panel froze. Kinda weird. Resetting did not help. The surprising part is that I was able to achieve 5.5 Amps @23.5 volts!
I have several known good 6038A which utilize nearly identical input rectifier + input filter circuit to establish a baseline for DC+AC levels.
Input FLT Out 6034A
PSU
(Vdc) Iset
(Amp) VDc Vac 23.5 0.2 319.0
n/m 23.5 0.5 318.0 0.36 23.5 1.0 309.5 0.64 23.5 1.5 308.4 3.42 23.5 2.0 308.0 4.84 23.5 2.2 307.0 5.20 23.5 2.5 307.0 5.90 23.5 3.0 306.5 7.11 23.5 3.5 307.0 8.30 23.5 4.0 305.8 9.30 23.5 4.5 306.6 10.23 23.5 5.0 305.2 11.20 23.5 5.5 305.0 12.20 23.5 6.0 unable unable
|
Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
Hi
Thank you for your reply, I still do have WinXP sp3 machines, however, the 82357B adapter is not easily available in the UK. The only ones listed on a famous action site are from China and vary in price from about $100 To almost $1000 and are they totally working clones?
I am pleased to know that it is possible to use WinXP.
73
George G6HIG
________________________________________
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of Colby Burkett burkettc@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: 29 April 2017 18:36
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
I've successfully run the 8648 calibration and motherboard utilities on WinXP SP3 w/Agilent IO v16.x and 82357B USB GPIB adapter. No special hacks needed other than it only worked on a physical machine and not a VM. Though I didn't try the mobo util in a VM, just know that the Cal util failed to actually calibrate when run from a VM. Initial results were promising in a VM, but couldn't get all the completed.
On Apr 29, 2017 10:52 AM, "dondoughty@...<mailto:dondoughty@...> [hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...>> wrote:
George G6HIG,
Looks like a useful instrument,
I found several manuals searching "agilent 8648b manual."
Also, try looking at the uP and the memory circuits supported by the backup battery.
An extension card would be useful, some of the old HP Instruments had one stored in the card cage.
Are the keyboard and display being scanned by the uP?
The best place to check is the keyboard,
here is a clip from the manual, page 5a-5 (203):
"The front panel contains two RPGs (rotary pulse generators), the keyboard, and the
display.
The two RPGs, one for frequency and one for amplitude, are connected directly to the
controller on the A3 board. Each RPG receives power and ground from the controller. Each
RPG returns two out-of-phase pulsed lines when the knob is turned.
The keyboard is a matrix of keys as shown in Table 5-1. on page 5-6. The keyboard is
scanned by the controller. Scanning pulses are sent alternately to the keyboard rows and
are read back on the columns when a key is pressed. The controller determines which key
was pressed based on the row that was pulsed and the column that the signal was
returned on. The column lines are pulled-up through resistors and are pulsed low when a
key is pressed. The row output latches are open-collector, therefore, pulses can not be seen
until the circuit is completed by pressing a key. The keyboard connects directly to the
controller at A3J3.
The display is driven by the controller through data latches on the A3 assembly. The
display control lines are eight bi-directional data lines, an enable clock line, a read/write
line, and a data/instruction line. The other lines going to the display are the display +5 V
and ground. The enable clock line is high during every data interchange. The read/write
line is high for a read operation and low for a write operation. The data/instruction line is
high for a data operation and low for an instruction operation. The data/instruction line is
used only during write operations. Data refers to the character data while instruction
refers to commands, such as return or space. When interchanging data, the controller
polls the display for acknowledgment.
This means that if the display is disconnected the controller will cease to attempt operations."
|
Known good HP 6038A
#1
Vout = 23.5Vdc
Iout = 5.5Amps
Input Filter out:
Vdc = 317.5Vdc
Vac = 1.48Vac (HP6034A = 12.2Vac!)
#2
Vout = 23.5Vdc
Iout = 9.5Amps
Input Filter out:
Vdc = 310.9Vdc
Vac = 2.58Vac
I can call input C2-5 as leaky.
//RF
|
Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
Hi Don
Thank you for replying to me, it is much appreciated.
First I have never seen an extension card that would work with this generator, the three plug in modules use a 9 pin D for the power and two edge connectors either side of the 9 pin D as in the HP8920A test set.
I did search for a manual and found one on the keysight web site, it is almost useless as it gives no circuit diagrams and assumes that to only repair possible is a module change.
Unfortunately, this group does not allow attachments with the result that your clip of the manual has been removed. Also it may be that your email has been clipped down.
Could you be so kind as to point me to where you found a manual that provides circuit information.
Basically I came to the same conclusion as yourself in as much as the fault is around the uP. The power distribution drawing indicates that there should be two +5v supplies to the display, there is only one and the voltages around the RPG's are not correct, I am not at my workshop with the drawing at present as a result I am somewhat hampered in providing exact detail.
My fear is that in attempting to replace the Lithium battery the previous owner has do damage to the uP or the circuitry around it.
Your email finishes with the words "will cease to attempt operations." is this what you intended to do?
I really appreciate your help
73
George G6HIG
________________________________________
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of dondoughty@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: 29 April 2017 17:52
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
George G6HIG,
Looks like a useful instrument,
I found several manuals searching "agilent 8648b manual."
Also, try looking at the uP and the memory circuits supported by the backup battery.
An extension card would be useful, some of the old HP Instruments had one stored in the card cage.
Are the keyboard and display being scanned by the uP?
The best place to check is the keyboard,
here is a clip from the manual, page 5a-5 (203):
"The front panel contains two RPGs (rotary pulse generators), the keyboard, and the
display.
The two RPGs, one for frequency and one for amplitude, are connected directly to the
controller on the A3 board. Each RPG receives power and ground from the controller. Each
RPG returns two out-of-phase pulsed lines when the knob is turned.
The keyboard is a matrix of keys as shown in Table 5-1. on page 5-6. The keyboard is
scanned by the controller. Scanning pulses are sent alternately to the keyboard rows and
are read back on the columns when a key is pressed. The controller determines which key
was pressed based on the row that was pulsed and the column that the signal was
returned on. The column lines are pulled-up through resistors and are pulsed low when a
key is pressed. The row output latches are open-collector, therefore, pulses can not be seen
until the circuit is completed by pressing a key. The keyboard connects directly to the
controller at A3J3.
The display is driven by the controller through data latches on the A3 assembly. The
display control lines are eight bi-directional data lines, an enable clock line, a read/write
line, and a data/instruction line. The other lines going to the display are the display +5 V
and ground. The enable clock line is high during every data interchange. The read/write
line is high for a read operation and low for a write operation. The data/instruction line is
high for a data operation and low for an instruction operation. The data/instruction line is
used only during write operations. Data refers to the character data while instruction
refers to commands, such as return or space. When interchanging data, the controller
polls the display for acknowledgment.
This means that if the display is disconnected the controller will cease to attempt operations."
|
Re: HP 8648B and an off topic request.
I've successfully run the 8648 calibration and motherboard utilities on WinXP SP3 w/Agilent IO v16.x and 82357B USB GPIB adapter. No special hacks needed other than it only worked on a physical machine and not a VM. Though I didn't try the mobo util in a VM, just know that the Cal util failed to actually calibrate when run from a VM. Initial results were promising in a VM, but couldn't get all the completed.
On Apr 29, 2017 10:52 AM, " dondoughty@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" < hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
?
George G6HIG,
Looks like a useful instrument,? I found?several manuals searching "agilent 8648b manual."
Also, try looking at the uP and the memory circuits supported by the backup battery.
An extension?card would be useful, some of the old HP Instruments?had one stored in the card cage.
Are the keyboard and display being scanned by the uP?
The best place to check is the keyboard, here is a clip from the manual, page 5a-5 (203):
"The front panel contains two RPGs (rotary pulse generators), the keyboard, and the display. The two RPGs, one for frequency and one for amplitude, are connected directly to the controller on the A3 board. Each RPG receives power and ground from the controller. Each RPG returns two out-of-phase pulsed lines when the knob is turned. The keyboard is a matrix of keys as shown in Table 5-1. on page 5-6. The keyboard is scanned by the controller. Scanning pulses are sent alternately to the keyboard rows and are read back on the columns when a key is pressed. The controller determines which key was pressed based on the row that was pulsed and the column that the signal was returned on. The column lines are pulled-up through resistors and are pulsed low when a key is pressed. The row output latches are open-collector, therefore, pulses can not be seen until the circuit is completed by pressing a key. The keyboard connects directly to the controller at A3J3. The display is driven by the controller through data latches on the A3 assembly. The display control lines are eight bi-directional data lines, an enable clock line, a read/write line, and a data/instruction line. The other lines going to the display are the display +5 V and ground. The enable clock line is high during every data interchange. The read/write line is high for a read operation and low for a write operation. The data/instruction line is high for a data operation and low for an instruction operation. The data/instruction line is used only during write operations. Data refers to the character data while instruction refers to commands, such as return or space. When interchanging data, the controller polls the display for acknowledgment.? This means that if the display is disconnected the?controller will cease to attempt operations."
?
|
KI6EZ
David C. Partridge
Herman van Rees