Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
I agree - YIG coil loads on the supply may be dragging it down. But first, does it produce the right frequency at lower settings where the problem doesn't show? This would confirm that the coil drive is at least OK.
Also, as I recall, there are two YIG device coils to drive - the oscillator, which should go around 2-6 or 2-7 GHz, and the YIG-tuned multiplier (YTM) filter coil. Both go up with frequency, but the oscillator will be periodic in tuning, repeating its range while the multiplication factor "N" changes with bands. The YTM coil only goes up and up, probably taking the bulk of the current.
There's also a power amplifier to drive the YTM - it may be juiced up another notch as N is increased. 13.5 GHz may be where N changes from 2 to 3.
Ed
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Re: HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
The test sets were designed this way on purpose.? There are test fixtures with a fixed spacing that are designed to mate with the front panel of the 85047, and one port had to have some slop so that slight variations in manufacturing would not prevent proper mating.? There are several other products like this with a "floating" design.
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Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
Good thought Dave, this is where I¡¯m headed next but it is difficult without a proper schematic. My manual (download) has a whole lot of extra stuff at the end of the manual that I did not print. There may be something in there. Peter. ?
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From: hp_agilent_equipment@... [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]
Sent: October-10-15 12:44 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper? ? On 10/10/2015 12:27 PM, 'Peter' bunge@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> New clues:
>
> I started through the Section 5 adjustments and got to 5.2 step 7 with
> minor adjustments. Entering 13.5 GHz freezes the displays. They start to
> flicker at 13.370 GHz. I can no longer select any frequency above this.
>
> The second observation is that the A9 reference resistor heat sink is
> too hot to touch. It shows Q1 and Q3 power TO3 devices on the schematic
> but has 3 on the heat sink and shows 3 on the component diagram, fig
> 8-70 in my manual (83592-90079). Q2 & Q3 are identical but not directly
> connected together. Q3 is supposed to be a voltage regulator. Q1 is
> supposed to be the coil current driver. It is difficult to tell which
> device is making the heat. The parts list does not show any of the
> ¡°transistors/regulators¡±. Q1 is marked 1820-0430, Q2 & Q3 are marked ¡°
> RCA 4-0080 HYP8432¡±.
To me this further suggests a power supply problem. As you increase
the YIG coil current by calling for higher frequencies, one or more of
Q1/Q2/Q3 is heating up too much, and probably dragging one of the power
supplies down. How do the rails look when you go up into that frequency
range?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
On 10/10/2015 12:27 PM, 'Peter' bunge@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: New clues:
I started through the Section 5 adjustments and got to 5.2 step 7 with
minor adjustments. Entering 13.5 GHz freezes the displays. They start to
flicker at 13.370 GHz. I can no longer select any frequency above this.
The second observation is that the A9 reference resistor heat sink is
too hot to touch. It shows Q1 and Q3 power TO3 devices on the schematic
but has 3 on the heat sink and shows 3 on the component diagram, fig
8-70 in my manual (83592-90079). Q2 & Q3 are identical but not directly
connected together. Q3 is supposed to be a voltage regulator. Q1 is
supposed to be the coil current driver. It is difficult to tell which
device is making the heat. The parts list does not show any of the
¡°transistors/regulators¡±. Q1 is marked 1820-0430, Q2 & Q3 are marked ¡°
RCA 4-0080 HYP8432¡±. To me this further suggests a power supply problem. As you increase the YIG coil current by calling for higher frequencies, one or more of Q1/Q2/Q3 is heating up too much, and probably dragging one of the power supplies down. How do the rails look when you go up into that frequency range? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
New clues: I started through the Section 5 adjustments and got to 5.2 step 7 with minor adjustments. Entering 13.5 GHz freezes the displays. They start to flicker at 13.370 GHz. I can no longer select any frequency above this. The second observation is that the A9 reference resistor heat sink is too hot to touch. It shows Q1 and Q3 power TO3 devices? on the schematic but has 3 on the heat sink and shows 3 on the component diagram, fig 8-70 in my manual (83592-90079). Q2 & Q3 are identical but not directly connected together. Q3 is supposed to be a voltage regulator. Q1 is supposed to be the coil current driver. It is difficult to tell which device is making the heat. The parts list does not show any of the ¡°transistors/regulators¡±. Q1 is marked 1820-0430, Q2 & Q3 are marked ¡° RCA 4-0080? HYP8432¡±. Anyone familiar with this A9 assembly or have a schematic that shows the three devices?
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Re: HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
Happens on my 85046A? 3GHz unit also.
?
John G3UGY
?
?
Thanks both for the reassurance,
So it looks like it was designed to
do that then.
- Charles
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Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
Thanks for the replies. Cliff: I tried the contact cleaner. No improvement but it was worth a try. There are no error messages. ? Chuck: I found the battery. Slight corrosion mainly on the battery, a little on the metal clip. Cleaned it up and borrowed a battery from my HP35. I found a supplier of bad HP35 batteries that only lasted a month, also a supplier of good ones that have lasted several years and hold a charge. I will try to find them again and post a link. These batteries are used in the HP8672A and HP8566A, probably others. Anyway this is not the problem because both my 8350B work fine with other plugins. There is no sign of damage to the 8350B or the 83592B, they are clean and shiny like new. That is not to say there is no problem caused by chemical fumes. A scrub in soapy water and rinse would be a last resort but I have done it before. ? Dennis: Yes that was the first place I looked. It passed all the tests. See below. ? Dave: I will re-check the capacitors. My resistance measurements showed a drop when A7 was removed but it was masked by the 22 ohms of the RPG lamp. I will try my ESR meter. ? The hanging occurs when starting in start/stop mode. Once I get it into CW it remains on for hours. I think it best to carry on with the full calibration. Also INSTR PRESET freezes the 8350B with blank start/stop displays. Cycling the ?power and catching CW is the only way to recover. Once the CW setup is recovered it comes on reliably in that mode. ? Is -2 to +23 dBm normal for this plug-in? (no opt 002 attenuator) Does anyone have a spare cover for the PCBs for sale? The plate that goes on top of the 83592B and has many screws. it also holds the big heat sink in place. It is obvious that someone else's fingers have been inside this plug-in. Peter. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:36 AM Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper My 8350B with 83592B plug-in turns on?with flickering displays that go blank?and hangs the 8350B with no error message,?and no response to any switches on either the plug-in or mainframe. While flickering for a few seconds the 8350B displays show -310 MHz start and 20 GHz stop. It does the same to a second known working 8350B. All data and address lines are active when hung so I don't understand why the 8350B does not respond. If I press CW while the displays are flickering it responds. I may have to power down and up again to then enter a CW frequency, it comes up showing CW. Once in this state I can run tests and all front panel entries work. I ran all the A3 tests which show the ROMs and address decoders are OK. The frequency in CW is high by 13 to 47 MHz going from?50 MHz to 18 GHz (it covers 0.01 to 20 GHz). The power is way off. The display shows -2 to +23 dBm. Is this normal? (no opt 002 attenuator). ?-2 is actually -17 dbM?and power does not increase until about +2.5 dBm. At +10 dbM?it is actually +9.5 dBm. Does anyone have a spare cover for the PCBs for sale? The plate that goes on top of the 83592B and has many screws. it also holds the big heat sink in place. It is obvious that someone else's fingers have been inside this plug-in.
¡¤???????? 5 ¡¤???????? 4
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Re: HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
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Re: HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
Dave is correct.
I did not know this and checked port 1 on my 85046B and indeed it moves a bit. Jos PA0AMX
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Re: HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
Hi,
Thanks both for the reassurance,
So it looks like it was designed to do that then.
The sensor connector is very slightly bent. I did power the unit up and using a signal generator,
power meter and a 30 dB attenuator measured the signal coming out of the? A port
with and without the load connected to port1 and there was > 30 dB difference so
I am hoping it is OK. I looked at the price of replacement units (from China) and
they are almost as much as I paid for the S-Box!
David, I have in the past looked at your Website so I may well be contacting you when
I have it working.
- Charles
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Re: HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
?
Charles,
?
One of the ports on my 8503 S param test set moved, and yes it
was the one with the plastic washers on it. It drove me mad so I simply turned
the washers upside down and tightened the screws carefully.
?
73
?
Kevin
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 10:42
AM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP
85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
?
|
Re: HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
|
Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
?
Hi,
Try a burst of aerosol Contact Cleaner on the
contacts on the back of the plugin also on the mating connector inside the
mainframe.
In my experience that seems to suppress the error
messages that you have described.
It might need several iterations of the process.
The act of pushing the plugin into the mainframe will help by wiping the mating
contacts, so that should help.
Good luck
Cliff? G4BGP
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:36
AM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 83592B
hangs 8350B sweeper
?
My 8350B with 83592B plug-in turns on?with flickering displays
that go blank?and hangs the 8350B with no error message,?and no
response to any switches on either the plug-in or mainframe. While flickering
for a few seconds the 8350B displays show -310 MHz start and 20 GHz
stop.
It does the same to a second known working 8350B. All data and
address lines are active when hung so I don't understand why the 8350B does
not respond.
If I press CW while the displays are flickering it responds. I may
have to power down and up again to then enter a CW frequency, it comes up
showing CW. Once in this state I can run tests and all front panel entries
work. I ran all the A3 tests which show the ROMs and address decoders are
OK.
The frequency in CW is high by 13 to 47 MHz going from?50 MHz to
18 GHz (it covers 0.01 to 20 GHz).
The power is way off. The display shows -2 to +23 dBm. Is this
normal? (no opt 002 attenuator).
?-2 is actually -17 dbM?and power does not increase until
about +2.5 dBm. At +10 dbM?it is actually +9.5 dBm.
Tomorrow I will start a full calibration. Suggestions and tips would
be appreciated.
Is there a battery backed memory in the 8350B? It seems to remember
the setup for quite?a while after being turned off. Is the save-n
non-volatile?
Does anyone have a spare cover for the PCBs for sale? The plate that
goes on top of the 83592B and has many screws. it also holds the big heat sink
in place. It is obvious that someone else's fingers have been inside this
plug-in.
No virus found in this
message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus
Database: 4435/10790 - Release Date: 10/10/15
|
HP 85047A (S-param test set) with loose Port1
Hi, A while ago I managed to acquire a? HP 85047A, unfortunately it has had an accident sometime in it's life and Port1 is loose and slightly bent. I have measured the directivity of the port and it seems to be in the right ballpark as far as performance is concerned. However the whole sensor moves. Opening up? the unit I see that whereas port2 is direct metal to metal contact where the mounting screws are located, port1 has plastic washers between the two surfaces. No matter what I try I cannot stop it moving. Anyone have any ideas? Next week I should get an HP8753E opt 011 unit and I will then be able to see if the Port1 sensor needs replacing or not.? - Charles G4GUO
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Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
As an addition, you have removed your nicad battery pack, right?
The nicad pack in the 8350B main frame, when overcharged (which is always)
vents caustic fumes and they fume all over the plugin, and the main frame
board next to the battery.
They cause a nightmare of problems.
The battery is next to worthless as it is, it should be removed on sight,
and all of the mess cleaned up.
-Chuck Harris
Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
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I'd immediately suspect a shorted tantalum capacitor on one of the supply
lines. I had one with nearly-identical symptoms a few years ago, and that
was the cause.
-Dave
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Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
Suspect A3 in your 83592B
Look at manual 83592-90074
8-57 Troubleshooting the A3 Digital Interface Assembly
Dennis
--------------------------------------------
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On Fri, 10/9/15, bunge@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Date: Friday, October 9, 2015, 9:36 PM
My 8350B with 83592B plug-in turns on?with
flickering displays that go blank?and hangs the 8350B
with no error message,?and no response to any switches
on either the plug-in or mainframe. While flickering for a
few seconds the 8350B displays show -310 MHz start and 20
GHz stop.
It does the same to a second known
working 8350B. All data and address lines are active when
hung so I don't understand why the 8350B does not
respond.
If I press CW while the displays are
flickering it responds. I may have to power down and up
again to then enter a CW frequency, it comes up showing CW.
Once in this state I can run tests and all front panel
entries work. I ran all the A3 tests which show the ROMs and
address decoders are OK.
The frequency in CW is high by 13 to 47
MHz going from?50 MHz to 18 GHz (it covers 0.01 to 20
GHz).
The power is way off. The display shows
-2 to +23 dBm. Is this normal? (no opt 002
attenuator).?-2 is actually -17
dbM?and power does not increase until about +2.5 dBm.
At +10 dbM?it is actually +9.5
dBm.
Tomorrow I will start a full
calibration. Suggestions and tips would be appreciated.
Is there a battery backed memory in the
8350B? It seems to remember the setup for quite?a while
after being turned off. Is the save-n
non-volatile?
Does anyone have a spare cover for the
PCBs for sale? The plate that goes on top of the 83592B and
has many screws. it also holds the big heat sink in place.
It is obvious that someone else's fingers have been
inside this plug-in.
|
Re: HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
I'd immediately suspect a shorted tantalum capacitor on one of the supply lines. I had one with nearly-identical symptoms a few years ago, and that was the cause. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA On October 9, 2015 9:36:34 PM "bunge@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote: My 8350B with 83592B plug-in turns on with flickering displays that go
blank and hangs the 8350B with no error message, and no response to any
switches on either the plug-in or mainframe. While flickering for a few
seconds the 8350B displays show -310 MHz start and 20 GHz stop.
It does the same to a second known working 8350B. All data and address
lines are active when hung so I don't understand why the 8350B does not
respond.
If I press CW while the displays are flickering it responds. I may have to
power down and up again to then enter a CW frequency, it comes up showing
CW. Once in this state I can run tests and all front panel entries work. I
ran all the A3 tests which show the ROMs and address decoders are OK.
The frequency in CW is high by 13 to 47 MHz going from 50 MHz to 18 GHz (it
covers 0.01 to 20 GHz).
The power is way off. The display shows -2 to +23 dBm. Is this normal? (no
opt 002 attenuator).
-2 is actually -17 dbM and power does not increase until about +2.5 dBm. At
+10 dbM it is actually +9.5 dBm.
Tomorrow I will start a full calibration. Suggestions and tips would be
appreciated.
Is there a battery backed memory in the 8350B? It seems to remember the
setup for quite a while after being turned off. Is the save-n non-volatile?
Does anyone have a spare cover for the PCBs for sale? The plate that goes
on top of the 83592B and has many screws. it also holds the big heat sink
in place. It is obvious that someone else's fingers have been inside this
plug-in.
|
HP 83592B hangs 8350B sweeper
My 8350B with 83592B plug-in turns on?with flickering displays that go blank?and hangs the 8350B with no error message,?and no response to any switches on either the plug-in or mainframe. While flickering for a few seconds the 8350B displays show -310 MHz start and 20 GHz stop.
It does the same to a second known working 8350B. All data and address lines are active when hung so I don't understand why the 8350B does not respond.
If I press CW while the displays are flickering it responds. I may have to power down and up again to then enter a CW frequency, it comes up showing CW. Once in this state I can run tests and all front panel entries work. I ran all the A3 tests which show the ROMs and address decoders are OK.
The frequency in CW is high by 13 to 47 MHz going from?50 MHz to 18 GHz (it covers 0.01 to 20 GHz).
The power is way off. The display shows -2 to +23 dBm. Is this normal? (no opt 002 attenuator). ?-2 is actually -17 dbM?and power does not increase until about +2.5 dBm. At +10 dbM?it is actually +9.5 dBm.
Tomorrow I will start a full calibration. Suggestions and tips would be appreciated. Is there a battery backed memory in the 8350B? It seems to remember the setup for quite?a while after being turned off. Is the save-n non-volatile?
Does anyone have a spare cover for the PCBs for sale? The plate that goes on top of the 83592B and has many screws. it also holds the big heat sink in place. It is obvious that someone else's fingers have been inside this plug-in.
|
In addition to what Alan writes: - have a look at the program and see if the array that V(N,2) is an element of, is declared as an integer array. If so, any fractions added to x(1,1) will be lost by equating V(N,2) to your expression. - make sure your scale factor is correctly used (you're still sending in SINT format, i.e. only a "mantissa"). Since you're at least getting the correct x(1,1) values, I guess it's ok. - I still don't understand what you're trying to achieve, especially since you're using the reciprocal of a measurement in a calculation to generate the next value, or so it seems.
Raymond
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Re: alternatives to 54120b test set
On 10/09/2015 05:00 PM, Chris Tofu dreyfusshudson@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: I think that's accurate. I've seen test sets, not saying which one
(likely the 54121a though) for around 100$. An anomaly? Perhaps, but
deals can be had. I only payed 100$ + shipping for what I got, was in
fairly good shape (though missing the top cover). The guy, seemingly a
bona fide test equipment reseller, had the voltage swtich on 220vac.
Maybe he had some kid look it over. I didn't have the heart to tell him.
Probably in his best interests though. The umbilical cable alone can run
150$. Wow, sounds like the guy had too much blood in his caffeine stream. It would be nicer to have a self contained unit like the 54110/11/12,
but the specs are so anemic by comparison. It's not the last scope I'm
going to own anyway I'm sure. Down the road I'll either splurge for the
test set and/or one of the earlier color HPs. There's always the 2215a I
payed 4$ for. Has a beam that's all I can say for now. Yeah. Just keep in mind that the 54120B is *not* a general-purpose oscilloscope. It's a pretty specialized instrument. Those NMD connectors on the test set should give that away. Hang onto that 2215A! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Dave McGuire
Jos Raven PA0AMX