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All issues, 1 through 37, of "The Notebook" are archived here:


73
Glenn
WB4UIV

At 02:41 PM 12/22/2012, you wrote:

Hi All

I think I can help answer this:

At a hamfest last year, I picked up a complete collection of the
Boonton Radio Corp publication " The Notebook". This was a periodic
publication by Boonton covering products and applications of their
various products-- ( A great read BTW..Some day I will scan and post
them somewhere --BAMA ???)

On the last page of Issue 33, the editor admitted to being HP.

" Editors Note:

BRC assumes Divisional Status:

Boonton Radio Corporation, a subsidiary of the Hewlett-Packard
company since 1959, assumed divisional status November 1, 1962.
At that time, BRC's name was changed to Boonton Radio Company.

The conversion of BRC to a division of the Hewlett-Packard Co. is a
part of the over-all program to achieve greater flexibility of the
entire HP organization ......... "

It goes on to say that William Myers from HP - Palo Alto was named
General Manager of the new division.


Hope this helps....

Ray Johnson WB0EBG / KE3QY
HP Components group 1993-1996

++++++++++++++++++++============================




--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:

Really? I thought I've seen Boonton instruments younger than that. Did
HP keep the Boonton name for a while after the acquisition?

Dave


On 12/21/2012 2:12 PM, w0eom@... wrote:

1959. the instruments are shown in the HP 1963 catalog.


In a message dated 12/21/2012 12:22:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
kc0wjn@... <mailto:kc0wjn%40gmail.com> writes:

Wow. I didn't know HP bought Boonton. I always liked Boonton
instruments, probably because I was born in Boonton. When did

HP buy them?

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On 25 December 2012 03:17, Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:

And I'm sure the thing is completely unrepairable except by Agilent,
schematics
are not available,

I suspect you are probably right about it being unrepairable except by
Agilent. I've not looked, but I doubt schematics are available now,
but perhaps they might be when is 20 years out of support.

once it goes out of support that is basically the end of that.

Agilent will attempt to repair items that are out of support. I have
an HP 8720D VNA that has been out of support for quite some time, but
when I contacted Agilent about a repair a few months back, they said
they could probably fix it, and could give me an approximate cost.
They also offered to look at it free.

In my case, the fault was obvious - it was a damaged thread on the 3.5
mm test port. Lucily it was not on the thread used for the RF
measurement, but a secondly thread used to provide extra support to
the Agilent test port cables with the large NMD conectors. The test
port has both an internal and external thread. There's a picture of
the damage here:



Agilent intended replacing the whole coupler, which was going to cost
around ???3000 ($5000) with labour. However, Joel Dunsmore, the Agilent
VNA guru, said on that forum that one could try repairing the damaged
bit of thread with a Dremmel. In fact my friend repaired it for me
using a needle file at a cost to me of buying the needle files from
eBay of around ???5 ($8).

I don't have quite $800k to blow this week after buying Christmas
presents. LOL.

No, me neither. It will have to wait until I get paid my next months
salary, which might be a few months as I'm unemployed at the minute!

Dave

-John

Agilent sell a VNA for 110 GHz. At $691,437 for a 4-port model, I
don't expect Agilent sell too many of them! If you buy all the
options, it will be over $800,00.

Dave

If both DMM meet your needs, then the chance it will work coming from unknowns via eBay, and easier to maintain DIY is your goal, the 3456a. If you need more updated features including amps but are willing to risk requiring a factory cal, repair and the costs it requires, 3457a.

3468a is not a system class DMM, but a general purpose DMM very much like he 3478a but is much cheaper as it doesn't support the GPIB bus but uses the then popular HP calculator interface. The 3479a is not a DMM, AFAIK.

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>, Jeff Machesky <jeff@...> wrote:Of the two meters, 3456 or 3457 which would be the smarter

purchase ?
In the interest of saving space I'm also looking at the HP 3468a or
3479a. I'm not seeing a major difference between the two except for
perhaps some lower ranges on the 3478a. Any helpful info regarding

those

devices.

If I can score a 3456a or 3457a for a reasonable price then I'll be
heading that direction. At the moment I'm stuck doing projects with
4,000 count B&K meters and a 20,000 DMM on the Tek 2465 which is not in
cal to it's spec. So my purchases will be pretty soon. I have a Fluke
8010 on the way which I'm sure will also need cal.

Thanks,

A couple weeks ago was a very very clean 250-A, have you checked the completed items. The seller was only asking something like $50 for it.

Was listed at least the first time with no bidders, didnt see if it went the 2nd time.

260-A's come up at least ever 3-4 months.

My spare parts 260-A's came free from a ham swap meet.

I'd just wait, they will show up again.

-pete

BRL 250-A, HP 250-A, HP 250-B.


--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "Max Robinson" <max@...> wrote:

I am looking for a couple of HP oldies. The 260A Q meter and the 250A RX
meter. I can't find any on eBay. These two instruments were carried over
from Boonton when HP bought them out.

Regards.

Max. K 4 O DS.

Email: max@...

Transistor site
Vacuum tube site:
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Music site:

To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
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To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
funwithtubes-subscribe@...

To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to
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And I'm sure the thing is completely unrepairable except by Agilent,
schematics
are not available, and once it goes out of support that is basically the
end of
that.

On 12/24/2012 8:38 PM, J. Forster wrote:

Agreed.

Note that the 8754A(?) computer based VNA that went to 18 GHz cost
prehaps
$80,000 in 1970 (a guess). Probably more w/ options. That's $450,000 in
today's deflated dollars, so $700,000 is not such a bad deal.

I don't have quite $800k to blow this week after buying Christmas
presents. LOL.

-John

====================

On 25 December 2012 00:24, J. Forster <jfor@...

<mailto:jfor%40quikus.com>> wrote:

You can use a SNA for quick and dirty tests, comparing a known, high
quality, component to the DUT, especially if you have a Storage
Normalizer, but in no way is an SNA a substitute for a VNA.

Agreed. That is why I was surprised when someone said a scalar one was
more accurate.

The only regime where they are used today, AFAIK, ia at frequencies
above
those practical for VNAs, over 40 GHz or more.

Agilent sell a VNA for 110 GHz. At $691,437 for a 4-port model, I
don't expect Agilent sell too many of them! If you buy all the
options, it will be over $800,00.

Dave

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Yahoo! Groups Links

Agreed.

Note that the 8754A(?) computer based VNA that went to 18 GHz cost prehaps
$80,000 in 1970 (a guess). Probably more w/ options. That's $450,000 in
today's deflated dollars, so $700,000 is not such a bad deal.

I don't have quite $800k to blow this week after buying Christmas
presents. LOL.

-John

====================

On 25 December 2012 00:24, J. Forster <jfor@...

<mailto:jfor%40quikus.com>> wrote:

You can use a SNA for quick and dirty tests, comparing a known, high
quality, component to the DUT, especially if you have a Storage
Normalizer, but in no way is an SNA a substitute for a VNA.

Agreed. That is why I was surprised when someone said a scalar one was
more accurate.

The only regime where they are used today, AFAIK, ia at frequencies
above
those practical for VNAs, over 40 GHz or more.

Agilent sell a VNA for 110 GHz. At $691,437 for a 4-port model, I
don't expect Agilent sell too many of them! If you buy all the
options, it will be over $800,00.

Dave

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <>
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2637/5484 - Release Date: 12/24/12

On 25 December 2012 00:24, J. Forster <jfor@...> wrote:

You can use a SNA for quick and dirty tests, comparing a known, high
quality, component to the DUT, especially if you have a Storage
Normalizer, but in no way is an SNA a substitute for a VNA.

Agreed. That is why I was surprised when someone said a scalar one was
more accurate.

The only regime where they are used today, AFAIK, ia at frequencies
above
those practical for VNAs, over 40 GHz or more.

Agilent sell a VNA for 110 GHz. At $691,437 for a 4-port model, I
don't expect Agilent sell too many of them! If you buy all the
options, it will be over $800,00.

Dave

On 24 December 2012 21:11, laurens_db <laurens101@...> wrote:

A well calibrated VNA is the best way of measuring S11/ S22.

That was my belief too - at least in the context of typical test
equipment. I would not be surprised if there other techniques
applicable to standards labs, which are not too practical for
commerical or amateur use.

I just opened this book:



and looked up scalar network analyzers. By the very title of the book,
you can see it is mainly devoted to VNAs, though there is a bit of
discussion about scalar network analyzers. To quote:


"Scalar network analyzers has the attribute of being very simple to
use, with almost no calibration or setup required. The scalar network
analyzers were designed to be quite flat in frequency response, and a
typical system consisted of one and the input and one at the output of
the DUT. However, for measurements of input or output match, or
impedance, the scalar network analyzer relied on a very high quality
coupler or directional bridge. If there was any cabling, switching or
other test system between the bridge and the DUT, the composite
matches of ALL were measured. There was no additinonal calibration
possible, to remove the effects of the mismatch. As test systems
became more complex and integrated, scalar network analyzers started
to fall from favor and there are virtually none sold today by
commercial instrument manufacturers"


As far as I can tell, the error correction of a VNA offers the ability
to compensate for errors than the scalar network analyzer simply does
not.

A broadband cal kit load is as close to 50Ohm as HP can make it.

Yes, although because of the limitations of broadband loads, sliding
loads are often used at higher frequencies. To once again quote from
Joel Dunsmore's book:

"The load standard is usually the most difficult to produce. <snip
lots> The sliding load, which should more properly be called a sliding
mismatch, is constructed from lengths of precision airline, The centre
conductor of the airline is typically created in such a way that it
can slide into place while the outer conductor is not yet mated, to
allow a beadless connection. The load element is typically not
resistive element, but is more commonly a tapered bead of lossy
material, that essentially makes the airline look like a lossy
element. It is designed to have an impedance which is not quite 50
Ohms, normally in the range of 26-40 dB return loss.

<snip>

"As the sliding load is moved, so its apparent impedance rotates
around the Smith Chart"

There's a diagram showing a full circle on the Smith chart, almost,
but not quite in the centre.It slightly spirals in, as the frequency
(and so loss) is incresed.

"The difference between the computed centre and the actual centre of
the Smith Chart determines the directivity error term"

I think is should be obvious what I stated earlier, that sliding loads
are impractical at lower frequencies. Looking at the manual for the
85054A 'N' cal kit, the minimum frequency of the sliding load is 1.999
GHz.

At 100 MHz (lambda = 3m), the load would need to be 1.5 m long to get
a complete half-wave on a Smith Chart. I suspect you can get away with
less than a full circle, as it only needs 3 points to make a circle,
but I think accuracy would suffer a lot if you could not get an
appreciable part of a circle.


Dave

What was so special about the 202? Are today's generators as good?

On 12/24/2012 6:27 PM, petepdx1955 wrote:

I've been adding to my collection of HP acquisitions, from what
I've been able to find in the search of patents BRC had some interesting on
creating FM modulation. Their 202 series FM generators were the 'standard' for
anyone doing work on VHF FM which in the 60's for telemetry was a big money
maker. And if you were designing for consumer FM you bought a 202.

And of course the Q-Meter was a big seller.

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>, "Richard Knoppow"
<dickburk@> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "David DiGiacomo" <daviddigiacomo@>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...

<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>>

Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP Oldies.

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Dave Daniel
<kc0wjn@> wrote:

Wow. I didn't know HP bought Boonton. I always liked
Boonton
instruments, probably because I was born in Boonton. When
did HP buy them?

Dave

This is confusing (at least to me), because there was
Boonton
Electronics, Boonton Measurements (usually just called
Measurements),
and Boonton Radio. HP bought Boonton Radio, but not the
other two.
Most of the familiar Boonton instruments are from Boonton
Electronics.

Boonton Electronics made sensitive electronic
voltmeters and some other equipment. Measurements Corp made
voltmeters and signal generators. I have a frequency
calibrator/marker made by Measurements Corp. Boonton Radio
Corp made the Q-Meter, which they originated, the RX-Meter,
which is a consolidation of an RF bridge, signal generator,
and detector in one box, and a variety of signal generators,
mainly FM, and test sets for air navigation equipment.
There was also Aircraft Radio Corporation or ARC, which
was a pioneer in airborne radio equipment. There were a
couple of other companies too but my memory is not very
reliable about them.
-hp- bought only Boonton Radio Corporation. I don't
know what they wanted. They continued to build the Q-Meter
and RX-Meter for a time and a small VHF signal generator,
originally sold under the Boonton name and later as an -hp-
product.
At the time -hp- bought Boonton they were buying a lot
of small companies.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
dickburk@

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <>
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2637/5483 - Release Date: 12/24/12

I've been adding to my collection of HP acquisitions, from what
I've been able to find in the search of patents BRC had some interesting on creating FM modulation. Their 202 series FM generators were the 'standard' for anyone doing work on VHF FM which in the 60's for telemetry was a big money maker. And if you were designing for consumer FM you bought a 202.

And of course the Q-Meter was a big seller.

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@... <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>, "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "David DiGiacomo" <daviddigiacomo@...>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...

<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>>

Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP Oldies.

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Dave Daniel
<kc0wjn@...> wrote:

Wow. I didn't know HP bought Boonton. I always liked
Boonton
instruments, probably because I was born in Boonton. When
did HP buy them?

Dave

This is confusing (at least to me), because there was
Boonton
Electronics, Boonton Measurements (usually just called
Measurements),
and Boonton Radio. HP bought Boonton Radio, but not the
other two.
Most of the familiar Boonton instruments are from Boonton
Electronics.

Boonton Electronics made sensitive electronic
voltmeters and some other equipment. Measurements Corp made
voltmeters and signal generators. I have a frequency
calibrator/marker made by Measurements Corp. Boonton Radio
Corp made the Q-Meter, which they originated, the RX-Meter,
which is a consolidation of an RF bridge, signal generator,
and detector in one box, and a variety of signal generators,
mainly FM, and test sets for air navigation equipment.
There was also Aircraft Radio Corporation or ARC, which
was a pioneer in airborne radio equipment. There were a
couple of other companies too but my memory is not very
reliable about them.
-hp- bought only Boonton Radio Corporation. I don't
know what they wanted. They continued to build the Q-Meter
and RX-Meter for a time and a small VHF signal generator,
originally sold under the Boonton name and later as an -hp-
product.
At the time -hp- bought Boonton they were buying a lot
of small companies.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
dickburk@...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <>
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2637/5483 - Release Date: 12/24/12

----- Original Message -----
From: "David DiGiacomo" <daviddigiacomo@...>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP Oldies.

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Dave Daniel
<kc0wjn@...> wrote:

Wow. I didn't know HP bought Boonton. I always liked
Boonton
instruments, probably because I was born in Boonton. When
did HP buy them?

Dave

This is confusing (at least to me), because there was
Boonton
Electronics, Boonton Measurements (usually just called
Measurements),
and Boonton Radio. HP bought Boonton Radio, but not the
other two.
Most of the familiar Boonton instruments are from Boonton
Electronics.

Boonton Electronics made sensitive electronic
voltmeters and some other equipment. Measurements Corp made
voltmeters and signal generators. I have a frequency
calibrator/marker made by Measurements Corp. Boonton Radio
Corp made the Q-Meter, which they originated, the RX-Meter,
which is a consolidation of an RF bridge, signal generator,
and detector in one box, and a variety of signal generators,
mainly FM, and test sets for air navigation equipment.
There was also Aircraft Radio Corporation or ARC, which
was a pioneer in airborne radio equipment. There were a
couple of other companies too but my memory is not very
reliable about them.
-hp- bought only Boonton Radio Corporation. I don't
know what they wanted. They continued to build the Q-Meter
and RX-Meter for a time and a small VHF signal generator,
originally sold under the Boonton name and later as an -hp-
product.
At the time -hp- bought Boonton they were buying a lot
of small companies.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
dickburk@...