Re: HP 8566A / B differences
When I worked for NIST, we did a lot of 8566A to B
upgrades (thus making them 8566AB units). To the best
of my knowledge, the whole point was for speed. I
seem to recall that the "A" version had discrete logic
for the controller, and the "B" version had a
microprocessor of some sort. The major difference to
us was certainly the transfer rate of data across the
HP-IB bus.
We had racks of 8566x analyzers in a van, which we
hauled to whatever location the gov't wanted to make
spectral signature measurements on. We needed
measurement speed, and the 8566B was the fastest
instrument around at the time, by a wide margin.
Dave
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Re: Hewlett-Packard 141T, 8552B and 8556A
Answer to John Miles,
He wrote:
1) NEVER remove or disable a crowbar circuit. It was triggering for a
reason! You're very lucky not to have done serious damage to your
analyzer
and plugins by removing CR10. This is no different from shorting a
fuse to
find out why it blew.
Reply: I had to, because I did not have a memory scope and the full
set of test cables. This was temporary.
He wrote:
2) Germanium pass transistors become leaky with age. These need to be
replaced as a matter of course in any equipment older than the mid-70s.
Daniel's 8552B dates from 1975, or at least its revision level does. They
can almost always be replaced with modern silicon power transistors
with no
ill effects.
Reply: The pass transistor is silicon, Si, not germanium, the manual
says Si and that was confirmed by test on a curve tracer. Leakage
would cause the problem to be worse at light load. I had a problem at
full load, but all was OK with a light load.
Regards
Daniel from Ville Saint-Laurent, QC, Canada.
|
Re: Hewlett-Packard 141T, 8552B and 8556A
Two lessons here:
1) NEVER remove or disable a crowbar circuit. It was triggering for a
reason! You're very lucky not to have done serious damage to your analyzer
and plugins by removing CR10. This is no different from shorting a fuse to
find out why it blew.
2) Germanium pass transistors become leaky with age. These need to be
replaced as a matter of course in any equipment older than the mid-70s.
Daniel's 8552B dates from 1975, or at least its revision level does. They
can almost always be replaced with modern silicon power transistors with no
ill effects.
-- john KE5FX
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Dufresne [mailto:ddufresn@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:55 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hewlett-Packard 141T, 8552B and 8556A
Hewlett-Packard 141T Display Section, serial number 1615A148XX, 8552B
Spectrum Analyser IF Section, serial number 1505A095XX and 8556A
Spectrum Analyser LF Section, serial number 1907A046XX. Report of
repairs.
|
Hewlett-Packard 3310A Function Generator and hot carrier diode or Schottky barri
Hewlett-Packard 3310A Function Generator, serial number 1151A0XXXX.
Report of repairs.
A friend's generator had failed and during his attempts at repairs had
broken a diode by accident. The manual specified the test point as
being the diode's leads, the oscilloscope probe proved to stressful.
Suspecting it was a tunnel diode, he stopped his repair attempts and
asked me to locate some tunnel diodes. I had some time so I took the
unit and the service manual off his hands.
Investigations revealed that the diode, A1CR4, was not a tunnel diode
but a hot carrier diode, HP part number 1901-0518. I replaced it with
a 1N914 just for now. The original problem was A1Q12, A1Q19 and
A1Q20, all three transistors where defective. The service manual
troubleshooting aids and maintenance tips section is quite useful,
section 5-172.
I replaced A1Q12, a 1855-0081 transistor, field effect, 2N5245 made by
Texas Instruments with a 2N5486 by Motorola. Replaced A1Q19,
1854-0019, the part bears only 4-019, transistor Si NPN, Motorola
SS2188 with a 2SD668 by Hitachi, now Renesas, no heatsink. Replaced
A1Q20, 1853-0034, the part bear only 3-034, transistor Si PNP, 2N3634
or Motorola SM3197, with a Renesas 2SB648A, no heatsink, but with the
original ferrite bead on the base lead. Redid the Triangle Amplifier
Bias Adjustment, section 5-126.
The generator now works, but on the two highest frequency ranges, 10 k
and 100 k, the waveform is not within specifications. The duty cycle
is not close to 50 % for the square wave. I tried a Schottky diode
for A1CR4, same results. I tried to locate a Schottky hot carried
diode and found 1N5711. It now bears the description Schottky barrier
diode but is the same as a hot carrier Schottky diode. It looks as a
Schottky diode but with very little zero bias capacitance, about 1 to
2 picofarad. A regular type 1 A Schottky diode has 100 to 1000 times
that much more capacitance. My friend bought some 1N5711 diodes and
sent them to me. Placed the 1N5711 in the unit. All within
specifications, no need to calibrate.
Daniel from Ville Saint-Laurent, QC, Canada.
|
Hewlett-Packard 141T, 8552B and 8556A
Hewlett-Packard 141T Display Section, serial number 1615A148XX, 8552B
Spectrum Analyser IF Section, serial number 1505A095XX and 8556A
Spectrum Analyser LF Section, serial number 1907A046XX. Report of
repairs.
This spectrum analyser system failed at turn on, after the unit had
been left unused for a few months. Investigation revealed that on the
8552B the two fuses on the back panel, F1 and F2, where blown. I
checked to see that there where no short circuit and installed new
fuses. The unit ran for 15 to 20 seconds and then blew both fuses
again. Looking at the schematic, the only way for both fuses to blow
at the same time is if the overvoltage crowbar circuit is activated.
To verify this I removed CR10, the crowbar thyristor, from the A5
assembly. Turned on the unit and it worked OK for a minute or so,
then some other type of symptoms appeared. The trace is way off at
the top, I can see some light but not the beam it self.
Checking the power supply I found all the supplies high by about 30 %.
The +100 V was 129 V, the -100 V was -128 V, the 248 V was 320 V,
-12.6 V was -16.3 V. I turned off the unit after about 20 seconds. I
removed the plug-ins and checked the supply, all four where within
limits. Put back the plug-ins, the same problem is now back. I
disconnected the 100 V going to the plug ins, all the supply voltages
where OK. Checked the +100 V regulator, as it is the master and the
three others take their reference from it. With 100 V output, the
base to emitter voltage is 0.53 V on Q2, the pass transistor. With
129 V output, the pass transistor base to emitter voltage was -2.9 V.
So the regulator circuit was sending the right signal to lower the
output. This led me to suspect the plugins, maybe a current path from
the 248 V supply to the 100 V supply. Further inspection revealed
nothing wrong with the plugins.
Back to the 141T supply I measured the current into Q2, the pass
transistor with 128 V at the emitter and -3 V between the base and
emitter, it should be cutoff, not so, the current was 407 mA!
Replaced Q2, a 1854-0294, listed as Q, Si, npn Motorola SJ-1318 with a
On Semiconductor MJ15003, silicone, TO-3, NPN, 140 V 20 A 250 W,
overkill but I had it on hand. Any 140 V 1 A 75 W TO-3 NPN device
would do, maybe a MOSFET also. Everything was back to normal.
Reinstalled A5CR10 in the 8552B, all OK. System fully functional.
I noticed some PWB discolouration under A5R3, a 4.7 k 5 % 2 W
resistor, that dissipates about 1.3 W. I changed it to a 5W resistor
and spaced it as far away from the PWB, so the increased surface area
and longer leads will give a lower PWB temperature and longer unit
life.
Daniel from Ville Saint-Laurent, QC, Canada.
|
Re: Wanted Manual: HP 3406A
There 45 different manuals at "Manuals Plus" about
the
hp 3406 .
Regards
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:20 AM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Wanted
Manual: HP 3406A
Hi Gang,
? I'm in need of an HP-3406
"Broadband Sampling Voltmeter" Operator/Service Calibration and Instruction
Manual.
?? Anyone out there have one they'd care to
sell?? Anyone know of any downloads?? BAMA has nothing on this one
that I can find.
Thanks,
Mike DiGirolamo,
W4XN
Charlottesville, VA
22901
-------------------------------
|
Re: HP-8657A SIGNAL GENERATOR
Hello?Bruce ,
?
In Europe and the guy will probably ship to?
other continents :
?
Good luck,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:07 AM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP-8657A
SIGNAL GENERATOR
Can someone tell me where to get the OPT-001 High Stability
Reference
oscillator for this
generator?.
???????????????????????????????
Bruce.
|
Re: Need adaptors for 8405A probes
Yes, you are correct that the kit has everything needed. Note that HP also had BNC adaptors 11570A. One undesirable aspect with this kit is the fact that HP said (in App Note 77-3) that the power splitter method is recommended only for frequencies below about 100 mHz. Above that, they recommend using the 778D dual directional coupler. However, if the kit remains available at near the current price, I would be inclined to purchase it and try the Narda coupler I have on hand with it. I'd guess the kit probably originally cost about $400-$500. Regards, John --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Rasputin Novgorod <priapulus@y...> wrote: --- jocjo_john <jocjo@m...> wrote:
Thanks, Rasputin.
The price is right (with the possible exception of
shipping costs to
the US), but I need adaptors for BNC as I am not
currently set up for type N connections. That kit has everything needed for making vector
measurements (the whole point of having a vector
voltmeter..)Such gear always has "N" connectors
so to handle the highest frequencies. Cheap adaptors
are easily available to change to BNC.
Anyone like to hazard a guess of the original
cost of that kit?
There is a different kit made up of
an assortment of probe end adaptors.
Sincerely
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Re: HP5100/5110 Synthesiser set
Hello Thomas.
?
Thanks for the tip, and I apologize to you for not
communicating with you sooner. I live here in the USA. Also, drop me an e-mail
from time to time when you and your associates are looking for HP manuals and
also HP gear as I do run accross alot of it.
?
Thanks for your time and have a great
day.
?
Respectfully, Robert
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 1:44 PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] RE:
HP5100/5110 Synthesiser set
Robert,
You might want to periodically search what's
available at
.
[Oh. It looks like you're in Australia. Maybe you could get someone
to pick it up and ship it to you, if you find one at one of the surplus sales
above.]
You could also put an "autosearch" on , so you'd automatically be emailed
if anything matching your search came up for auction. Just go to "My Ebay"
then "Favorites".
You could also ask in the sci.electronics.repair
newsgroup, and maybe even some of the rec.radio.amateur.xxxxx groups, at .
Good
luck!
Regards,
Tom Gootee
??????
?? Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:34:50 +1000 (EST)
??
From: Robert Fincher
Subject:
HP5100/5110 Synthesiser set
Hello everyone,
About 6 weeks ago I
posted an enquiry for an HP5100B
synthesiser driver to mate with a 5100
main unit.
Unfortunately no-one replied. On reflection, who would
want
to part with just half of a 5100/5110 pair? So
now that I have the 5100
part of the synth working
well, even if only producing a few frequencies,
I
guess I'm hooked and want to own a complete set. so if
anyone is
wanting to dispose of a 5100 synthesiser AND
a 5110 driver, I would love to
hear from you.BTW the
pair do not have to be fully operational,
merely
refurbishable.
Thanks in anticipation!
Rob Fincher
VK3BRF
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
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|
Hi Gang,
? I'm in need of an HP-3406 "Broadband Sampling Voltmeter"
Operator/Service Calibration and Instruction Manual.
?? Anyone out there have one they'd care to sell?? Anyone
know of any downloads?? BAMA has nothing on this one that I can
find.
Thanks,
Mike DiGirolamo, W4XN
Charlottesville, VA 22901
-------------------------------
|
HP-8657A SIGNAL GENERATOR
Can someone tell me where to get the OPT-001 High Stability Reference
oscillator for this generator?.
Bruce.
|
Re: Need adaptors for 8405A probes
--- jocjo_john <jocjo@...> wrote: Thanks, Rasputin.
The price is right (with the possible exception of
shipping costs to
the US), but I need adaptors for BNC as I am not
currently set up for type N connections. That kit has everything needed for making vector measurements (the whole point of having a vector voltmeter..)Such gear always has "N" connectors so to handle the highest frequencies. Cheap adaptors are easily available to change to BNC. Anyone like to hazard a guess of the original cost of that kit? There is a different kit made up of an assortment of probe end adaptors. Sincerely __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
|
Re: Need adaptors for 8405A probes
Thanks, Rasputin. The price is right (with the possible exception of shipping costs to the US), but I need adaptors for BNC as I am not currently set up for type N connections. Thanks again for pointing it out. John --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Rasputin Novgorod <priapulus@y...> wrote: As for continuing to look for the adaptor, I have
had a "saved search" for these on Ebay for over a
month and no hits. Try: eBay Item number: 3829178511
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Re: Need adaptors for 8405A probes
As for continuing to look for the adaptor, I have
had a "saved search" for these on Ebay for over a
month and no hits. Try: eBay Item number: 3829178511 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
|
Re: Need adaptors for 8405A probes
Hi, Arthur - I forgot to mention that I am a klutz when it comes to mechanical things and I am not very imaginative. This sort of thing may be easy for you, but it presents a challenge to me. I looked at this approach for quite a while. I can't figure out how to make the probe tip get a good connection to the BNC T connector as the connector has a bigger hole than the probe tip diameter. Also, the barrell of the probe does not go inside the BNC connector even when the probe tip is completely inserted into the BNC hole. Would it help if I upload a photo and dimensional drawing? As for continuing to look for the adaptor, I have had a "saved search" for these on Ebay for over a month and no hits. I would have thought something would have shown up by now. But maybe not. Thanks for your help. John --- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Arthur Shulman <dentist@n...> wrote: Use a BNC 'T' as the tap in a 50 ohm transmission line. Use a small
cut-off piece of suitably small phosphor-bronze finger stock to take up the slack between the probe barrel & the inner diameter of the 'T'. the finger stock may be left in place in the 'T' after trimming. the fingers will retain it.
Keep lookiing for an adapter if you wish. They can be found for much less than $150!
Arthur Shulman
jocjo_john wrote:
I've got an 8405A Vector Voltmeter. The probes have a barrell with a tiny pointy point coming out. The pointy point is about .03 in
diameter and the barrell is about .288 diameter.
It would be nice to be able to connect these probes to a
directional coupler or into a transmission line. That would require a way of
converting the probe to a BNC connector. Aha! I see that HP had a
BNC adaptor #10218A for that purpose. They also had a kit
#11064A. I found the BNC adaptor for sale for $150. But that's about what I
paid for the whole instrument!
What do others do to be able to connect these probes to real
circuits?
Thanks for any suggestions.
John
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Re: Need adaptors for 8405A probes
Use a BNC 'T' as the tap in a 50 ohm transmission line. Use a small cut-off
piece of suitably small phosphor-bronze finger stock to take up the slack
between the probe barrel & the inner diameter of the 'T'. the finger
stock may be left in place in the 'T' after trimming. the fingers will
retain it.
Keep lookiing for an adapter if you wish. They can be found for much
less than $150!
Arthur Shulman
?
jocjo_john wrote:
?I've got an 8405A Vector Voltmeter. The
probes have a barrell with a
tiny pointy point coming out. The pointy point is about .03 in
diameter and the barrell is about .288 diameter.
It would be nice to be able to connect these probes to a directional
coupler or into a transmission line. That would require a way of
converting the probe to a BNC connector. Aha! I see that HP had
a
BNC adaptor #10218A for that purpose. They also had a kit #11064A.
I
found the BNC adaptor for sale for $150. But that's about what
I
paid for the whole instrument!
What do others do to be able to connect these probes to real
circuits?
Thanks for any suggestions.
John
?
|
Need adaptors for 8405A probes
I've got an 8405A Vector Voltmeter. The probes have a barrell with a
tiny pointy point coming out. The pointy point is about .03 in
diameter and the barrell is about .288 diameter.
It would be nice to be able to connect these probes to a directional
coupler or into a transmission line. That would require a way of
converting the probe to a BNC connector. Aha! I see that HP had a
BNC adaptor #10218A for that purpose. They also had a kit #11064A. I
found the BNC adaptor for sale for $150. But that's about what I
paid for the whole instrument!
What do others do to be able to connect these probes to real
circuits?
Thanks for any suggestions.
John
|
Re: Rules, What Rules? was: Manual copyright
Hi Stefan:
The Tek mailing list has had a number of posts on this subject, but I think the big picture is that a patent or copyright gives the holder the right to sue a violator for damages. Damages being defined as lost revenue and/or punitive.
So as a practical matter what company is going to spend their valuable corporate attorney fees on a case where they can not even recover their expenses? I don't think it's a case where an individual has copied one manual. But if someone setup a business based on copying all of a companies manuals and underselling that company, then you might expect to be spending some time in court.
Just my 2???,
Brooke Clarke, N6GCE (no legal training, just common cents)
--
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:48:32 -0000
From: "Stefan Heinzmann" <stefan_heinzmann@...>
Subject: Manual copyright
Hi all,
I have scanned the manual of the HP339A and made a PDF file. I would
like to upload it to BAMA if that's ok. The manual is of course
copyrighted by HP (1984), but the instrument is discontinued, and as
far as I know the manual isn't sold by HP anymore. Tektronix allow
putting up the manual for download in such a case, but I don't know
about HP/Agilent. Does anyone know the rules?
Cheers
Stefan
|
Hi all,
I have scanned the manual of the HP339A and made a PDF file. I would
like to upload it to BAMA if that's ok. The manual is of course
copyrighted by HP (1984), but the instrument is discontinued, and as
far as I know the manual isn't sold by HP anymore. Tektronix allow
putting up the manual for download in such a case, but I don't know
about HP/Agilent. Does anyone know the rules?
Cheers
Stefan
|
Re: HP 8566A / B differences
Further to this, I just spent some time comparing a
8566A catalog excerpt (presumably from sometime before 1984, when the 8566B came
out) to the specs for the 8566B as of 1996.? The RF specs I looked at
are?100% identical.? These include:
?
-
Frequency and amplitude range
-
Residual FM
-
Drift
-
Noise sidebands
-
Scale fidelity
-
Calibration uncertainty
-
Frequency response uncertainty (flatness), both bandwise and
cumulative
-
Third-order IMD (given as TOI)
-
Second-harmonic distortion
-
Image, LO-harmonic, and out-of-band responses
-
Displayed average noise level
?
Not
compared due to missing specs from 1996 catalog:
?
- LO
emission (no reason to think this is any different)
?
So it
appears that the only differences between the 8566A and 8566B are related to
GPIB control/programmability differences.? Although both analyzers can
store and recall 6 setup configurations, the 8566A catalog listing makes no
reference to the 8566B's 16K of user RAM for stored programs and trace
data.? So that may be the only real difference between the two.... a
difference that would matter to very few users in the Amateur/hobbyist
market.?? Automated test programs usually run on a separate GPIB host,
so unless I'm overlooking something, it doesn't matter if the analyzer can
execute programs by itself.
?
Certainly there appears to be no reason for the
prejudice implied by some sellers when they refer to their 8566Bs as "true B"
units, as opposed to those upgraded from the -A model.? From all I can
tell, an upgraded 8566A would be indistinguishable from the
8566B.
?
--
john KE5FX
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: John
Miles [mailto:jmiles@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:35
PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: RE:
[hp_agilent_equipment] HP 8566A / B differences
Hi,
Mike --
?
I
only had the chance to spend a few days with the 8566B, but I was definitely
impressed.? It is about 12 dB 'hotter' at 10 GHz than the Tek 494AP I
normally use, and the 1-3-10?resolution bandwidth scales have a real
usability advantage over?the Tek's decade steps.? The display
quality is also light-years ahead of Tek, in that they implemented a serious
high-resolution?graphics display instead of using a
warmed-over?oscilloscope?interface.? On the other hand, the
Tek's control panel is a bit?nicer to use due to its 3-knob design, and
its signal-counter feature has come in handy many times.? I ended up
keeping the Tek over the 8566B for those reasons, and because I'm just more
familiar with it and have limited space in my equipment rack.? It was a
close call; the 8566B is one hell of a nice?piece of gear and I imagine
the -A model is no different in that respect.
?
I
did have a chance to add 8566B support to my GPIB plotter emulator app, and
one way you (and other HP analyzer owners) could help is by seeing if it works
on your 8566A as well.? This is at
-- the easy way to test it is to unzip the files and run "7470 18" to see if
it can grab a plot from the analyzer at GPIB address 18, or wherever you've
configured it.? This *should* work on an 8566A or an 8568, but again,
nobody has tried it yet.
?
My
understanding is that the 8566B used a 68000 CPU (pretty exotic stuff in those
days; they were right there on the leading edge along with Apple's early Lisa
and Mac machines), while the 8566A used a different, more proprietary
controller.? But I don't know if that translated into any real
functionality differences, or if the RF performance is any difference.? I
don't know if the CRT is any different, or even if my 85662A display section
had a "new"-style CRT or not.? This was the first one I've
seen.
?
A
GPIB programming manual for the 8566A would be handy, if you have that in .PDF
format.? It would tell me a lot about what differences there are between
the two models.? Agilent's site lets you
download the 8566B manual, but not the 8566A manual, as far as I can
tell.?
?
--
john KE5FX
Dear John,
? I was
particularly interested in this question since I've been shopping for an HP
8566B for some time now.? I came to the conclusion that I simply cannot
justify the expense of this fine spectrum analyzer for my non-profit ham and
experimentation? use.? I did however, find an excellent buy on an
HP 8566A which I just received yesterday.? It is was certified with a
NIST cal prior to sending, so I have reason to believe it to be in fine
working condition.
?? I had accumulated manuals for the HP
8566B, and verification software on both 3.5" and? 5.5" floppies?
(if you have the HP computer interface to use them - I can copy the 3.5" for
you).? I've been working through the "getting familiar with.." sections
of the manual for my "new" unit and am totally amazed with the ease of use
of this fine piece of intstumentation.
??? Now, coming
around to MY interest is your question.. I'd like to know what, if any,
differences are there between these two machines besides some expanded HP-IB
commands?? I know that around 1984 or so there was a newer CRT used in
both units (was there was there a production overlap?) and I know that there
was an A => B Mod Kit that included a new board which replaced an older
board that had to be removed.? Other than that it appears that the
basic machine functions and specs was the same.? Are you able to
comment on this?
?? Is there any way I can help you??
I know NOTHING about HP-IB other than a little I've
read.
73,
Mike DiGirolamo, W4XN
Charlottesville, VA
22901
|
Mike D.