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Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

"F1EKU via groups.io" <rfconsulting.fr@...> writes:

According to HPAK's technical documentation, it's impossible to write
new calibration factors into the sensor because
each time it requires calculating a checksum that the EPMs of the
E4416/17/18/19 series cannot compute. They explain that
for this, we must use the newer EPMs from the N1911/12/13/14
series. Personally, I've been able to read a sensor's entire
block and write it back into another probe, but changing one or more
values within the block always resulted in the
inability to initialize the modified probe on an E44XX series power
meter. Of course, HPAK uses an external program
capable of calculating the checksum when they calibrate a sensor upon
request and write the complete block, even with an
E44XX power meter. Does anyone know the solution for calculating the
checksum?
Yes, i reverse engineered the EEPROM format of the E9XXX power sensors
because i wanted to add option H18 to my E9304A. The EEPROM contains
different tables, and each table header contains a simple 'add all
bytes' style checksum. But one has to be very careful when writing the
EEPROM - if the EEPROM contents are not valid, the power meter shows an
error message (or even locks up completely). Communication with the
power sensor is no longer possible and you need some tricks to
re-establish communication.
Programming codes for option 002 and option 003 for 8663A

 

We are in the middle of upgrading our software to support the RS FSMR measuring receiver and came across a section of the test for pulse and phase mod that we would like to automate. The current test is done manually (which is fine) but we thought it would be fun to snazzy it up by fully automating it. Kicker is, we can find nothing anywhere on the internet for commands to control either 002 or 003. The manuals on the net are SN specific and only seem to reference the base unit. I scoured the Wiki repository here and came up zilch on that as well.

Is it possible there are no commands to control this or would someone be able to point me in the direction of where we should be looking?

With respect, Mike
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Fantastic!

Okay, so this makes me feel a bit better. I was thinking I was the only one out here that wanted to try this. Something that has been made abundantly clear to me is to capture the data from the eeprom before attempting to write to it, just in case the file becomes corrupted I have a backup copy to restore from. With this in mind I will work towards a script to capture this in all instances.
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Thank you for the response. Yes, we have a lab that is asking for this but again it is not something I have played with.

If you would not mind, I would like to speak to you to get your insights on how to proceed or even if we should proceed. Please send me an email to sales@... I will show you what we have so far and what we would like to try. At the moment we are adding in a RS FSMR measuring receiver as a driver to the 8663A calibration program. THAT is a NICE receiver!?
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Sorry, correction: for writing this is the right form: "DIAG:DET:EEPR eepromaddress, eepromvalue" (the ? must be removed).

BR,

G

On 5/22/2025 5:36 PM, George/Gyorgy Albert via groups.io wrote:
EEPROM writing, if my notes are correct it is "DIAG:DET:EEPR? eepromaddress, eepromvalue".
--
Gy?rgy Albert
Mob +40-722-304534
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Hi,

A few years ago I also tried to find out the calibration tables of the E4412/4413 power sensors, using my E4418B power meter. The "DIAG:DET:EEPR? eepromaddress, 1" command was definitely working (and returned the EEPROM location content), where I looped eepromaddress from 0 to 2047 (the address seems truncated to 11 bits, so using addresses higher than 2047 interprets the modulo 2048 part). I compared the read value with the dumped EEPROM content, and it matches. The second parameter when the content is read, '1',? is the number of bytes. I used reading only one single byte in a loop, but multiple bytes also can be read.

I tested also the EEPROM writing, if my notes are correct it is "DIAG:DET:EEPR? eepromaddress, eepromvalue". There were (several) checksum bytes for sure, if one single bit was altered in the content, at startup the sensor has been declared defective (corrupt table). But I didn't succeed to decrypt the table locations and checksum calculation.

In one of the EPM power meter manuals (probably this document is the source of inspiration : 9018-01324.pdf) I found some service commands, which I tested. The results are listed in the attached text file.

BR,

George/Gyorgy

On 5/22/2025 12:04 PM, Razvan Popescu via groups.io wrote:
Hi,

I will check my notes. I remember there were some GPIB DIAG and INIT commands that are not documented.

If you look at the PS-Cal and SureCal calibration software you will see they can read/write the new values via the power meter GPIB commands. Maybe for the newest sensors it is a little bit more difficult but for the HP branded E4413A that I had it was OK.

Regards,
Razvan

On May 22, 2025 8:43:32 AM UTC, "F1EKU via groups.io" wrote:
According to HPAK's technical documentation, it's impossible to write new calibration factors into the sensor because each time it requires calculating a checksum that the EPMs of the E4416/17/18/19 series cannot compute. They explain that for this, we must use the newer EPMs from the N1911/12/13/14 series. Personally, I've been able to read a sensor's entire block and write it back into another probe, but changing one or more values within the block always resulted in the inability to initialize the modified probe on an E44XX series power meter. Of course, HPAK uses an external program capable of calculating the checksum when they calibrate a sensor upon request and write the complete block, even with an E44XX power meter. Does anyone know the solution for calculating the checksum?

--
Gy?rgy Albert
Mob +40-722-304534

E4418_service_GPIB_commands.txt
E4418_service_GPIB_commands.txt

Joining group

 

Dear group manager,

Which procedure must be followed to join this group?

73
Raymond ON4DBV
Re: HP 8566B repair

 

Recall reg 7 is the last stored state. You can save instrument states in registers 0-7, 8 is the correction numbers.
Don Bitters
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Hi,

I will check my notes. I remember there were some GPIB DIAG and INIT commands that are not documented.

If you look at the PS-Cal and SureCal calibration software you will see they can read/write the new values via the power meter GPIB commands. Maybe for the newest sensors it is a little bit more difficult but for the HP branded E4413A that I had it was OK.

Regards,
Razvan

On May 22, 2025 8:43:32 AM UTC, "F1EKU via groups.io" wrote:
According to HPAK's technical documentation, it's impossible to write new calibration factors into the sensor because each time it requires calculating a checksum that the EPMs of the E4416/17/18/19 series cannot compute. They explain that for this, we must use the newer EPMs from the N1911/12/13/14 series. Personally, I've been able to read a sensor's entire block and write it back into another probe, but changing one or more values within the block always resulted in the inability to initialize the modified probe on an E44XX series power meter. Of course, HPAK uses an external program capable of calculating the checksum when they calibrate a sensor upon request and write the complete block, even with an E44XX power meter. Does anyone know the solution for calculating the checksum?
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Of course, I would be very interested in knowing the solution for writing to R&S NRV-ZXX series sensors, as the documentation I've read doesn't mention it. It seems that specific software is required for this.
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

According to HPAK's technical documentation, it's impossible to write new calibration factors into the sensor because each time it requires calculating a checksum that the EPMs of the E4416/17/18/19 series cannot compute. They explain that for this, we must use the newer EPMs from the N1911/12/13/14 series. Personally, I've been able to read a sensor's entire block and write it back into another probe, but changing one or more values within the block always resulted in the inability to initialize the modified probe on an E44XX series power meter. Of course, HPAK uses an external program capable of calculating the checksum when they calibrate a sensor upon request and write the complete block, even with an E44XX power meter. Does anyone know the solution for calculating the checksum?
Re: Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Hello Mike,

You need to use some power meter GPIB commands to write/update the sensor EEPROM. It is not only the calibration table coefficients to update but also the temperature compensation table.

I only played with Agilent EPM and Gigatronics power meters to do this but from what I saw in other docs on the internet you have the exact same principle for Boonton and R&S power meters.

I recommend you download the initial/old table and check how it is done and after send new table. I used a text file to read the new cal table and write it to the sensor.

I did this in a semi automated way because I only had 2 sensors to update and it was interesting to try it. For Gigatronics it was not even needed a script because you can update the values on the power meter itself.

I guess you need a fully automated procedure to integrate it in your VeeCal software?

Regards,
Razvan

On 21/05/2025 19:23, VeeCal via groups.io wrote:
Hello again,
I am hoping to find someone here who has done some work with the E44XX series of power sensors - specifically validating and recording the new cal factors to the EEPROM. Likewise for Gigatronics, Anritsu, and Rohde Schwarz. I have done the procedures in the past for the 848X series but this new one is outside of my comfort zone.
With respect, Mike
Re: BNC that does not have the bayonet lugs

 

This version of BNC is commonly used in avionics: Radios, Transponders and the like.?
The RF unit slides into a housing (tray); The (modified BNC Female) coax connector on the RF unit makes contact into the (modified) BNC male connector on the tray??
Installation is probably a lot simpler than it would be if conventional BNCs were used.
All other connections (dc / control/ audio ect) are catered for by multi-pin connectors. (the plug on the RF unit and the socket on the tray.
Similar the that mentioned by Wilko Bulte.

Cliff



On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 6:31?PM Robert G8RPI via <robert8rpi=[email protected]> wrote:
It would help if you told us what it is on.
It does sound like the BWD powerscope connector. They will take a BNC but it won't lock on.

Robert
Re: HP8757A Display Problem (Scalar Network Analyzer)

 

Congratulations!
?
Really glad to hear you located the issue, and it was in the general area we were
discussing.
?
Off Topic - Looking for assistance with power sensors

 

Hello again,
I am hoping to find someone here who has done some work with the E44XX series of power sensors - specifically validating and recording the new cal factors to the EEPROM. Likewise for Gigatronics, Anritsu, and Rohde Schwarz. I have done the procedures in the past for the 848X series but this new one is outside of my comfort zone.
With respect, Mike
Re: BNC that does not have the bayonet lugs

 

It would help if you told us what it is on.
It does sound like the BWD powerscope connector. They will take a BNC but it won't lock on.

Robert
Re: HP 334A distortion analyser problem

 

On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 10:25 AM, Goran Parezanovic wrote:
I applied "supper cold" spray ( -20 deg)to each transistor in the measuring circuit ( Q5 to Q9) but the voltmeter works fine, stays at zero.?
?
I think it's more likely that the problem is one or more electrolytic capacitors which often tend to be "leaky" when they are first charged up. This will go away after a bit of time.? If the required warmup time is short enough for you to tolerate it, just leave it as is. If it's long enough to be annoying, you can try walking thru the circuit, grounding things that won't mind being grounded, until you get to the point where the problem no longer occurs.
?
If you ground a point and find that the meter now stays at zero even when cold, you know that the problem is not after the stage you grounded, but it might be IN the stage you just grounded.
?
If the circuit path is long, the best way to do this is a binary search, where you start in the middle, dividing it in half, then proceed into quarters, etc. Eventually you'll narrow it down to one section of the circuit, where you'll have to decide which element is the problem.
?
--
Jim Adney
Madison, WI USA
Re: HP 334A distortion analyser problem

 

In message <[email protected]>, Goran Parezanovic via
groups.io <GParezanovic@...> writes
Thank you for the input, you gave me new perspective. I was focused
on the metering circuit, and when I applied freeze spray to the
transistors in power supply, I found the culprit on second
transistor I tried. Confirmed twice, now to find the replacement !

_._,_._,_

Result then!, but do make sure you change the capacities in the power
supply especially the main smoothing ones. I did this with my 339A and
the figures for distortion residuals improved quite a bit, ripple on the
supply rails..

--
Tony Sayer
Re: HP 8566B repair

 

I tried to start the automatic calibration routine (Shift W): the photos show the results obtained... I don't understand what "Recall: reg 7" means.
..
Re: HP 334A distortion analyser problem

 

Thank you for the input, you gave me new perspective. I was focused on the metering circuit, and when I applied freeze spray to the transistors in power supply, I found the culprit on second transistor I tried. Confirmed twice, now to find the replacement !
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