Re: Service notes HP5343A, Count about 350MHz wrong
That sounds like a calibration error.? You don't have to have a lot of equipment to calibrate the unit.
Richard
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Recently I've got a 5343A counter. If works good, except that in the range of about 10-26GHz it sometimes shows a frequency with approx +300 to +350MHz (positive) error. The symptom is the same as the original author had. Many times it solves the issue
and shows the correct frequency, but only after a few seconds.
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Looks like it can not determine/decide on the factor correctly. Any ideas?
Thanks!
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Re: Service notes HP5343A, Count about 350MHz wrong
Recently I've got a 5343A counter. If works good, except that in the range of about 10-26GHz it sometimes shows a frequency with approx +300 to +350MHz (positive) error. The symptom is the same as the original author had. Many times it solves the issue and shows the correct frequency, but only after a few seconds.
?
Looks like it can not determine/decide on the factor correctly. Any ideas?
Thanks!
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I found a reference in 3580A - Operating note - 03580-90021 - warning about reduced performance in opt 02 in early serial number units
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Note 3580A opt 002 s/n 1312A00465 and below were specified at +27dBm or +/- 15V dc with some degradation in the balanced input frequency response
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What is the serial number of your unit (I can't read it from your image)?? ??
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(Just a guess) Could E02 represent when the improved later 02 option has been upgraded in a unit that already had Opt 02?
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Peter
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Just read again Option E02 not Option 02
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Option 2 looks like?
- Balanced inputs
- Balanced tracking oscillator output
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Peter
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 03:20 PM, Razvan Popescu wrote:
On 01/05/2025 09:47, Maurizio IZ1MDJ via groups.io wrote:
Hi , why to not post the link of the image , so other people can
download it ?
Regards Maurizio IZ1MDJ
Hi Maurizio,
I think this is the link:
Regards,
Razvan
Hi Razvan many thanks
Regards
Maurizio IZ1MDJ
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Anyone know what Option E02 would be on an HP 3580A????
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-dc
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Great find, and most users might use a Windows 95, 98 or NT Virtual Machine? If they're very lucky it might run in XP?
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I had trouble with installing VMware on an older Core i5 x64 machine here, the processor almost supported it. I had to go with Oracle VirtualBox on that older recycled PC. Good now.
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
I'm not spruiking for Transera, but they are offering a "Personal" (e.g. Non commercial, hobbyist use, your mileage may vary, don't operate heavy machinery, etc).
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Current price is US$129 - I bought one and I've been poking at writing HTBasic code ever since.
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TonyG
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Bloatware the NI "Drivers" may be, but there are some useful
features.
One of my favourites, is "NI IO Trace", or in old speek "NISpy".
Absolutely invaluable when debugging code, or recalcitrant
instruments.
It is installed as standard, but often no shortcut/launcher is
shown by default.
I forget where it's located, but is not difficult to find.
Enjoy.
Dave 'KBV.
Oh, just don't try and mix NI's VISA subsystem, with another
makers version.? It's quicker to flatten the PC and start over,
than to unpick the mess created.
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Here is the second important volume for this software.
Please note that HP Basic for Windows is in fact TRANSERA HT BASIC.
Meaning that if you encounter Transera products, you can use them instead.
Software written in both environments would be compatible.
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
There are several videos of Tegam equipment on YouTube? Ing. Patricio A. GrecoTaller Aeron¨¢utico de Reparaci¨®n 1B-349Organizaci¨®n de Mantenimiento Aeron¨¢utico de la Defensa OMAD-001Gral. Mart¨ªn Rodr¨ªguez 2159San Miguel (1663)Buenos AiresT:?+5411-4455-2557F:?+5411-4032-0072
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On 1 May 2025, at 10:17, Razvan Popescu via groups.io <yo8ryr@...> wrote:
? I cannot find the article about the 1830A where Tegam said they used a type IV bridge and added a 6.5 digit multimeter to build the 1830A.1830A is more used in the calibration labs together with the transfer standards they also sell combined with the PS-Cal software or SureCal one which can control the power meter and usually two VNAs for low band and high band to automatically calibrate power sensors and also output the fancy report.I never saw them independently used outside the calibration rack. Tegam sells complete racks for this purpose.When doing the calibration one must take in consideration all components used in the uncertainty formulas. That includes power meter/thermistor mount/VNA/resistive splitter/attenuators...Does anyone have any calibration lab procedure and uncertainty calculation for RF power sensors? I found different white papers that have some formulas that they used but I am interested if anyone has the exact procedure used on daily basis by cal labs.On 01/05/2025 01:19, jmr via groups.io wrote:I've not used any Tegam gear but I think it's reasonable to assume they know what they are doing. I don't think there will be anything exotic about this type of meter because the aim will be to replicate the DC substitution technique used with my old HP 432A meter.
When using the old 432A you first have to measure the resistance of the mount resistance inside the 432A and you have to include the cable in this as well. This is because this acts as a series sense resistor in an IV system. Then it is just a case of zeroing the meter and measuring the voltages at Vrf and Vcomp with the source on and off.
Obviously, having to measure the mount resistance by hand is a major pain because it means unscrewing the thermistor head from the cable each time and measuring the resistance with a decent ohmmeter and then refitting the sensor. My 432A mount resistance has never changed from about 200.2 ohms but I still measure it each time.
I would expect that Tegam will use some form of four wire sensing system that lets them measure the mount resistance and all the voltages automatically with no user input. So there will be nothing to dismantle or measure manually. So it will be a lot quicker to do the DC substitution. The newer N432A will presumably be similar.
So I think it's reasonable to assume that both Tegam and Keysight know how to make a decent >6 digit DVM and four wire IV system that operates at DC. So any subtle differences in accuracy on a datasheet will largely be irrelevant as the uncertainty associated with the 478A thermistor will dominate here.
So it really is up to you if you can live with the clunky user interface of the Tegam unit. I wouldn't want to use it as a regular power meter because of the clunky menu system. At least the N432A has a proper keypad and a decent display.
If you have spotted a used Tegam unit then I guess it could be a bargain as long as it is in good working condition. I'd be concerned about long term support though. Tegam have been associated with acquisitions over the years and were acquired themselves a few years ago. So some of their product ranges could become obsolete at some point if the parent company decide to cut out stuff that doesn't generate much income..
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 02:17 PM, Razvan Popescu wrote:
I cannot find the article about the 1830A where Tegam said they used a type IV bridge and added a 6.5 digit multimeter to build the 1830A.
I'm not sure what is inside it but I assume it will use a pair of auto balancing bridges like the 432A system. I'm also assuming they use some form of 4 wire IV method to measure their own mount resistance.
It could be that the mount resistance is stable enough to not have to measure it. I'm just guessing really :)
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I mentioned 6.5 digit DVM because Keysight describe their voltage measurement as being equivalent to a 6.5 digit DVM inside the N432A. Tegam will presumably use or claim something similar.
?
With the N432A I think you still have the option of connecting an 8.5 digit DVM externally to the rear of the instrument to do DC substitution the old school way. I suspect only the strictest calibration houses bother with the external 8.5 digit DVM. This probably represents the ultimate accuracy in terms of providing a highly accurate transfer standard.
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I doubt the Tegam unit supports an external 8.5 digit DVM and this probably separates the two meters in terms of ultimate performance in terms of providing a highly accurate transfer standard. I doubt the Tegam unit can compete here even this is only relevant for critical users at calibration houses. Outside a calibration house this advanced feature of the N432A isn't really relevant.?
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
On 01/05/2025 09:47, Maurizio IZ1MDJ via groups.io wrote: Hi , why to not post the link of the image , so other people can download it ?
Regards Maurizio IZ1MDJ
Hi Maurizio, I think this is the link: Regards, Razvan
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
I cannot find the article about the 1830A where Tegam said they used a type IV bridge and added a 6.5 digit multimeter to build the 1830A.
1830A is more used in the calibration labs together with the transfer standards they also sell combined with the PS-Cal software or SureCal one which can control the power meter and usually two VNAs for low band and high band to automatically calibrate power sensors and also output the fancy report.
I never saw them independently used outside the calibration rack. Tegam sells complete racks for this purpose.
When doing the calibration one must take in consideration all components used in the uncertainty formulas. That includes power meter/thermistor mount/VNA/resistive splitter/attenuators...
Does anyone have any calibration lab procedure and uncertainty calculation for RF power sensors? I found different white papers that have some formulas that they used but I am interested if anyone has the exact procedure used on daily basis by cal labs.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 01/05/2025 01:19, jmr via groups.io wrote: I've not used any Tegam gear but I think it's reasonable to assume they know what they are doing. I don't think there will be anything exotic about this type of meter because the aim will be to replicate the DC substitution technique used with my old HP 432A meter.
When using the old 432A you first have to measure the resistance of the mount resistance inside the 432A and you have to include the cable in this as well. This is because this acts as a series sense resistor in an IV system. Then it is just a case of zeroing the meter and measuring the voltages at Vrf and Vcomp with the source on and off.
Obviously, having to measure the mount resistance by hand is a major pain because it means unscrewing the thermistor head from the cable each time and measuring the resistance with a decent ohmmeter and then refitting the sensor. My 432A mount resistance has never changed from about 200.2 ohms but I still measure it each time.
I would expect that Tegam will use some form of four wire sensing system that lets them measure the mount resistance and all the voltages automatically with no user input. So there will be nothing to dismantle or measure manually. So it will be a lot quicker to do the DC substitution. The newer N432A will presumably be similar.
So I think it's reasonable to assume that both Tegam and Keysight know how to make a decent >6 digit DVM and four wire IV system that operates at DC. So any subtle differences in accuracy on a datasheet will largely be irrelevant as the uncertainty associated with the 478A thermistor will dominate here.
So it really is up to you if you can live with the clunky user interface of the Tegam unit. I wouldn't want to use it as a regular power meter because of the clunky menu system. At least the N432A has a proper keypad and a decent display.
If you have spotted a used Tegam unit then I guess it could be a bargain as long as it is in good working condition. I'd be concerned about long term support though. Tegam have been associated with acquisitions over the years and were acquired themselves a few years ago. So some of their product ranges could become obsolete at some point if the parent company decide to cut out stuff that doesn't generate much income..
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Re: HP83651A HPGL language settings
Hi Tom,
?
Try to verify if this software can help you to drive your sweeper :
?
?
Dan.
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Thanks Hardy, that one should be a great help
Peter
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Hi Peter Here are ?one of the manuals¡ mail me if you want more . Hardy ? ? The archive? ()? does contain 19 files but 13 of them just appear to be jpegs of the physical media (including the license certificate) I was able to generate an .iso image from the .bin and ,cue files that are in the archive and install from that What the archive does not appear to contain is the actual contents of the various manuals.? The package itself is a little quirky so it would be useful to get hold of .pdfs of at least the Installing and User's manuals to confirm how it is intended to operate
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
For the record, the installation process completed without issue on a Windows 10 machine
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I also installed the National Instruments GPIB driver package (strong competitor for the world's largest driver download).?
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For GPIB hardware I used an NI USB-GPIB.? Amongst many other things, the NI driver installs a program (NIMax) where GPIB hardware installed on the machine can be interrogated.? In this program you can check that the hardware is installed correctly and the name that has been assigned to the interface.?
In my case 'GPIB0' i.e. the zeroth GPIB interface
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To open the GPIB interface in BASIC you need to include the line
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LOAD BIN "GPIBNI; DEV GPIB0"? ? ?<----- note the name used here is the one shown in NIMax
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Then use regular HPBASIC commands to talk to hardware? i.e.
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ASSIGN @Isc TO 7
ASSIGN @Scope TO 707
CLEAR @Isc
OUTPUT @Scope; "*RST"
OUTPUT @Scope; "*IDN?"
ENTER @Scope; Id$
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etc.
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From a fresh machine to talking to hardware in about 30 mins
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Peter
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Patricio A. Greco