Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Dear Colleagues,
On this topic I also wanted to ask you if you know whether the matter of having/not having options e.g. 010 or 011 (in case of 8510C/8530A) is only a matter of having/not having a PAL security chip in the socket? So, is the operating system the same regardless of any options (so internally has support for all options already built in but not available if there is no security chip)? Below is document showing how to upgrade 8530A to opt 010 (time domain) and it looks like only security key is required: https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/9018-05077/installation-guides/9018-05077.pdf
?
Do you know what is the latest operating system revision for 8530A - from what we have on the forum and what is mentioned on the Kesight website, it is A.01.66, but I saw information that 8530A is only available for CRT units (2nd box from the up: Antenna 08530-80004 CRT Only): https://kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/Support/vector-network-analyzers/HP-Agilent-Keysight/8510/8510C_Installation_Pre_Flight_checkout.pdf
?
?
Here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/326343133737 you can see that 8530A software is running on 85101C with LCD, so I wonder if there was a newer version of the system than A.01.66 or maybe this version can be also run on the LCD version?
?
Thanks,
Wojciech
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Hi Don,
Is that what you intended?
Matt
On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 2:44?PM Don Bitters via <donbitters= [email protected]> wrote: Check conversation #10342 in this forum/wiki. There is a discussion over the next few messages about requirements, changes, and the dual mode operation is discussed and what it entails. Both PAL PN¡¯s are mentioned so the OP has them both. The 8510C/8530A can do both with opt 011, it just depends on which personality you boot from disk.
Don Bitters
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
If you go back into the archives for this group, you will find that I was peripherally involved in some posts back 5+ years ago where a replacement security device for the 8510 was developed. There might be something in that thread that is useful to you. -Chuck Harris On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 13:45:08 -0700 "wojciechoo via groups.io" <wojciechoo@...> wrote: Oh, I got it :) Sorry for my confusion!
Thanks Tom, I think what you are talking about is converting 85102b
(IF detector as part of 8510) to 85102R (microwave receiver called
8530A). I already have an 8530A, so I hope I won't have to convert
anything else, but I feel that it will take some time before I can
run the entire antenna measurement system (first I'll have to get a
security key or buy one another 85101c unit :/)
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Hi Razvan¡
I took a quick look but no joy. I will continue the search tomorrow.
From Tom Holmes, N8ZM
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On Apr 29, 2025, at 5:36 PM, Razvan Popescu via groups.io <yo8ryr@...> wrote:
?Hi Tom,
Maybe you can find that document for the conversion of the 85102B to 85102R.
I can try to get the boards on eBay to convert my 85102B.
Thanks,
Razvan
On 29/04/2025 23:12, Tom via Metronet via groups.io wrote:
You are correct. Good that you have most of the pieces.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Depending on whether the RF source is an 8340/50/60 series, some components might not be vital to have.
There¡¯s a capacitor that gets soldered between a couple pins on the backplane. That probably isn¡¯t necessary unless using an 8350 as the source.
It¡¯s quite possible the ¡°faster¡± parts might not be needed without an 8360 as the source.
Unlesss something in the software demands it, if you¡¯re operating fixed frequency or step rather than ramp sweeping, seems like a luxury rather than requirement.
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IIRC is ¡°If I Recall Correctly¡±. Sorry for the shorthand.
?
I¡¯m going from memory from when I did a conversion from an 8510C to an 8530 around 1999, and I recall replacing three IF boards and the sweep trigger board. HP made a kit for doing the conversion
that included all of the parts and tools needed. I doubt you could find one today, but maybe the instructions are still around in the internet. Given a little time, I might have them in my library, if I was smart enough to save them. I¡¯ll do a little digging
over the next few days. If I find them, I¡¯ll try to upload to the list repository.
?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
?
?
I already had 8530A microwave receiver and 8511A frequency converter. But I don't know what is it "IIRC"?. And what sweep trigger board is also required?
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Check conversation #10342 in this forum/wiki. There is a discussion over the next few messages about requirements, changes, and the dual mode operation is discussed and what it entails. Both PAL PN¡¯s are mentioned so the OP has them both. The 8510C/8530A can do both with opt 011, it just depends on which personality you boot from disk.
Don Bitters
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Hi Tom,
Maybe you can find that document for the conversion of the 85102B to 85102R.
I can try to get the boards on eBay to convert my 85102B.
Thanks,
Razvan
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On 29/04/2025 23:12, Tom via Metronet via groups.io wrote: You are correct. Good that you have most of the pieces.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
On 29/04/2025 23:06, Paul Bicknell via groups.io wrote: I have been talking to people today about the Tegam 1830 A? and as yet I cannot find anyone in the UK that has actually sold one or used one I was also looking for someone that used any Tegam products so I can ask more questions about the procedures for the calibration of power sensors and uncertainty calculations but I couldn't find anyone. I wrote to 2 persons that advertised calibration software and services for Tegam but no reply. I assume those that are using the Tegam 1830 A? are talking to each other either through standards or possibly a user group for Tegam instruments Tegam had a forum (community) but for me the link never worked. I couldn't find any other Tegam related forum or group. You will need to make some friends at some Metrology or Calibration Lab but first check their 17025 accreditation, they should specify what hardware they use for RF Power Measurements. I was told that the Tegam 1830 A? 1has been around for about 10 years and is ?6600
The first dated firmware release for 1930A was in 2011. There were a few other firmware releases before but I couldn't find any release date for those, so I would assume that 1830A is at least from 2011 on the market. Comments please? Paul
Regards, Razvan
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
You are correct. Good that you have most of the pieces. ? Tom Holmes, N8ZM ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of wojciechoo via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 4:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements? Oh, I got it :) Sorry for my confusion! Thanks Tom, I think what you are talking about is converting 85102b (IF detector as part of 8510) to 85102R (microwave receiver called 8530A). I already have an 8530A, so I hope I won't have to convert anything else, but I feel that it will take some time before I can run the entire antenna measurement system (first I'll have to get a security key or buy one another 85101c unit :/)
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
I have been talking to people today about the Tegam 1830 A? and as yet I cannot find anyone in the UK that has actually sold one or used one ? I assume those that are using the Tegam 1830 A? are talking to each other either through standards or possibly a user group for Tegam instruments I was told that the Tegam 1830 A? 1has been around for about 10 years and is ?6600 ? Comments please? Paul ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jmr via groups.io
Sent: 29 April 2025 19:24
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration ? On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 07:27 PM, John Griessen wrote: How about this idea: us the 432A for its DC cal ability, and transfer it to a Boonton 4231A that has GPIB?
In that case, I'd only use the 432A occasionally? Or are you suggesting there's no need for the 432A?
I think many people effectively do just that by being able to check and adjust the 1mW reference on a modern power meter using the 432A and the DC substitution method. However, my setup has that subtle blip in the efficiency at 50 MHz because my 478A sensor has a subtle blip in the VSWR at 50 MHz. So I have to know the efficiency at 50 MHz and how the efficiency changes just above 50 MHz. Having the H7x option would help a lot here but this would restrict the best performance to less than 1 GHz.? I typically only use the 432A about once a year to do a check on the 1mW output on my Anritsu power meter. It's not much use (to me) for anything else although it can be used to level the 83752A sweeper in the range of about 70 MHz to 2GHz. Above this the efficiency of the 478A tails off a bit. One other niggle with the original 432A meter is that the rotary cal factor switch on the front panel only allows 1% step sizes. This is OK most of the time but not so good if you want to connect a DVM to the recorder output at the rear and you want to dial out the efficiency as accurately as possible. None of this was really an issue for the majority of users 50 years ago, but it is a niggle today. The N432A meter and the Tegam meter will be able to offer much finer adjustment for the efficiency at each frequency point.
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HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
I have found the installation image for HP Basic for Windows 6.33 on the internet archive
From the images in the archive it looks as though there were a number of printed manuals that were supplied with the package
I am especially interested in the? Installing and Using and? User's manual
?
Does anyone have access to these documents in .pdf from?
?
Peter
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Oh, I got it :) Sorry for my confusion!
?
Thanks Tom, I think what you are talking about is converting 85102b (IF detector as part of 8510) to 85102R (microwave receiver called 8530A). I already have an 8530A, so I hope I won't have to convert anything else, but I feel that it will take some time before I can run the entire antenna measurement system (first I'll have to get a security key or buy one another 85101c unit :/)
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
IIRC is ¡°If I Recall Correctly¡±. Sorry for the shorthand. ? I¡¯m going from memory from when I did a conversion from an 8510C to an 8530 around 1999, and I recall replacing three IF boards and the sweep trigger board. HP made a kit for doing the conversion that included all of the parts and tools needed. I doubt you could find one today, but maybe the instructions are still around in the internet. Given a little time, I might have them in my library, if I was smart enough to save them. I¡¯ll do a little digging over the next few days. If I find them, I¡¯ll try to upload to the list repository. ? Tom Holmes, N8ZM ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of wojciechoo via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2025 4:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements? I already had 8530A microwave receiver and 8511A frequency converter. But I don't know what is it "IIRC"?. And what sweep trigger board is also required?
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
It is shorthand for If I Recall Correctly.
Barry - N4BUQ
Hi Tom,
I already had 8530A microwave receiver and 8511A frequency converter. But I don't know what is it "IIRC"?. And what sweep trigger board is also required?
Thanks,
Wojciech
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Hi Tom,
I already had 8530A microwave receiver and 8511A frequency converter. But I don't know what is it "IIRC"?. And what sweep trigger board is also required?
Thanks,
Wojciech
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Thank you Razvan for that information. I didn't know that. You are right, it would be too easy to be feasible.
When the security fuse is programmed, the array will read as if every fuse is unprogrammed.
?
Regards,
Wojciech
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Are you aware that the 8530A also uses different IF and, IIRC, also the sweep trigger board?? From Tom Holmes, N8ZM
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On Apr 29, 2025, at 3:17 PM, wojciechoo via groups.io <wojciechoo@...> wrote:
? Dear Colleagues,?
Does anyone of you own an 85101C display unit with option 011 and would be able to download the contents of the PAL security key 08530-80004 (option for the 8530A microwave receiver). I have an 85101C display unit that I would like to use for antenna measurements, I have the operating system on a LIF floppy disk ready to reload, unfortunately my 85101C unit does not have option 011 (dual identity 8510C/8530A). I would be extremely grateful, I think that the contents of the PAL would be also valuable for other microwave hobbyists.
Best regards,
Wojciech
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
The contents of the PAL chip cannot be "downloaded". You will need to find a chip on eBay or from another 8510C that has the 8530A option.
Regards,
Razvan
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On 29/04/2025 21:17, wojciechoo via groups.io wrote: Dear Colleagues,
Does anyone of you own an 85101C display unit with *option 011* and would be able to download the contents of the PAL security key *08530-80004* (option for the 8530A microwave receiver). I have an 85101C display unit that I would like to use for antenna measurements, I have the operating system on a LIF floppy disk ready to reload, unfortunately my 85101C unit does not have option 011 (dual identity 8510C/8530A). I would be extremely grateful, I think that the contents of the PAL would be also valuable for other microwave hobbyists.
Best regards,
Wojciech
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Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Dear Colleagues,?
Does anyone of you own an 85101C display unit with option 011 and would be able to download the contents of the PAL security key 08530-80004 (option for the 8530A microwave receiver). I have an 85101C display unit that I would like to use for antenna measurements, I have the operating system on a LIF floppy disk ready to reload, unfortunately my 85101C unit does not have option 011 (dual identity 8510C/8530A). I would be extremely grateful, I think that the contents of the PAL would be also valuable for other microwave hobbyists.
Best regards,
Wojciech
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 11:37 PM, Lynn C wrote:
I'm interested in the specifics on the types of "hobbyist?grade" references jmr mentioned.? There are voltage references in varying grades of accuracy available to a hobby user (from a new 1.5V D battery to IC references and published board designs using these IC references).? Current references for the?hobbyist are a little harder to come by.
?
What are possibilities for RF power references for the hobbyist?? Some power meters have a 0dBm output at 50MHz.? But this reference depends on some previous adjustment for output power, and perhaps frequency.
?
Specific examples of such hobbyist-grade references and where to obtain such references would be helpful.
?
Lynn C.
KA7FPH
?
?
For a fairly advanced reference, I think it would be possible to replicate the 50 MHz oscillator in a typical HP power meter from the 1970s or 1980s. This would be a weekend project rather than something made in under an hour. This would give a very stable output vs time and temperature but it would obviously need to be calibrated on day 1.? So if a calibrator isn't available then this probably isn't a viable option.
?
Another option for lower frequencies is to use something like a 74HC4060 to make a crystal oscillator and take one of the /2 flip-flop outputs and add a series resistor and blocking cap and and some form of L or Pi filter to filter it to a sinewave. Then fit something like a 6dB attenuator to get about 0dBm out. This wouldn't need anything other than a DC voltmeter to check and adjust the 5V supply to calibrate the output. This ought to be able to make something within +/- 0.2dB at a few MHz. With adjustment, it ought to be much better than this if there is something available to calibrate it. This ought to be quite stable vs time. Not as good as an HP reference but still quite good.
?
Otherwise, a decent/fast DAC or DDS could be used if you don't expect or demand high accuracy. There are loads of modern options available today that can outperform the old 74HC4060 for example and the output should be self calibrating (to a reasonable degree) as long as the DAC reference can be measured and adjusted.
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Paul Bicknell