Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
The triangular tab is spot welded to the coin cell and then the legs of the tab are in turn soldered to the board next to the resistor. A great way to force the repair technician to completely dismantle tge unit in order to replace the battery...
On Thu, Feb 27, 2025, 20:33 Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher= [email protected]> wrote: I lifted today the CRT card, just enough to have some access to the battery, but I'm still unsure how it's supposed to come off. I tried prying the top spring "leaf," but it seems attached (possibly soldered) to the battery - or is that a top lid over the battery? And then there's a piece of foam underneath, possibly double-sided sticking. I'd rather not remove the whole mainboard just to replace this, but I don't think I can try many more prying and pulling before?I risk something more serious due to the lack of access.? Hoping someone having done this before?recognizes the type of battery and its socket from the enclosed pictures?and has some good pointers. I am not seeing any other battery on this board - I was expecting?a bigger, cylindrical?type, but I think this must be it for the 54512B.?
Thanks a bunch in advance. Radu.?
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 7:08?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks, Jim. I still have to perform that test where I play The Cure from my garage with the door open, which?I'm sure you'd hear from your bench!! ;))))
I tried?to pry off the battery this morning without further disassembly, but it doesn't want to come off that easily. There seems to be a blob of solder - has anyone seen that before? - on top of the holder, and some sort of?foam?tape below it. Maybe I need to apply force a little bit differently.?
Unless there's some secret?regarding how to remove the battery, I'll have to at least remove at least the CRT module to gain?better access to it. I really think access to a battery - even one guaranteed?a decade - should be easier than this. So this should be possible later in the week when I have more time.? Radu.?
Speaking of CR2032 coin cells, don’t spend $$ at a local store; order from Digital-Key for about $0.50 in quantity.? I usually buy 50 pieces at a time.? But then I have a keychain LED flashlight (torch for the Brits) that my kids bought me some years ago (best gift ever!) that takes 2 cells and a 3-LED baseball cap that I wear when walking my dogs at night that takes 4.? So I go through a lot of them.? Mouser might have them as well.? I’ve not ordered from D-K for a while because they buried the big product table, and it seems like something else they did got me PO’d at them.? HTH.
Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA
> On Feb 25, 2025, at 7:46?PM, Peter Gottlieb via <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?CR followed by numbers indicates the physical size, CR2032 etc.? I would say if you're already in there, replace them as even if they are good they won't last much longer.? I always replace memory hold up cells in anything that crosses my bench.? Low hanging fruit.
>
> The power supply might be low because of an overload caused by a shorted capacitor.? Perhaps try unplugging the supply connections. I can't remember if that model's supply will run correctly without load.? But if you do go inside it, check the capacitors for capacitance, leaks and ESR.
>
> Peter
>
>
>> On 2/25/2025 9:35 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via wrote:
>> I've gotten a bit of a chance tonight to check a couple of things with one of the units:
>>
>> *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>
>>? * Voltages on rails:
>>? ? ? o +11.924V
>>? ? ? o +12.050V
>>? ? ? o -3.27V(fluctuating somewhat; no significant ripple on it)
>>? ? ? o -5.2289V
>>? ? ? o 3.5285V
>>? ? ? o 5.2067V
>>? * There's a coin battery on the main board, which I didn't remove yet (I'd
>>? ? rather measure its voltage before I do, in case it's still good and holds
>>? ? the memory). It's a Panasonic and I can only read "CR..." from it. Would
>>? ? there potentially be more harm done by removing it, than simply losing the
>>? ? cal constants, in case it's still good for some reason? I'm thinking of
>>? ? biting the bullet and removing it, replacing it, and then seeing where
>>? ? that takes me.
>>
>> So this second unit has more issues than just a dead battery (in case the latter checks out). I'll have to remove the power supply module and see what could be wrong with the -12V rail. I'm provisionally blaming the unruly -12V rail for the additional error this second unit has, which the first doesn't. So my money's on that the first one has a good -12V rail.
>> Radu.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 7:14?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <> <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? Awesome, thank you, Peter.
>>
>>? ? I wonder if anyone has a fresh recollection of what battery or maybe
>>? ? battery-backed RAM would be suspect and possibly needed so I'd start
>>? ? working on an order to have the parts ready by the time I carve out some
>>? ? time to open these. From what I know about these generation scopes,
>>? ? replacing the battery is probably a good idea anyway. The cal constants
>>? ? seem to be gone, so nothing to lose there.
>>
>>? ? I wasn't able to find this information (particularly info on the battery)
>>? ? in the manuals, which I find odd.
>>? ? Radu.
>>
>>
>>? ? On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:26?AM Peter Gottlieb via
>>? ? <> <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? ? ? Seems like you are on the right track.? Many HP scopes of that era
>>? ? ? ? lose their
>>? ? ? ? minds if the memory battery goes dead.
>>
>>? ? ? ? Peter
>>
>>
>>? ? ? ? On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via
>>? ? ? ? <> wrote:
>>? ? ? ? > Hi all,
>>? ? ? ? > Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to
>>? ? ? ? bring back
>>? ? ? ? > to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they
>>? ? ? ? have some
>>? ? ? ? > commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully
>>? ? ? ? refurbished and
>>? ? ? ? > never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this
>>? ? ? ? other series,
>>? ? ? ? > and hope on some good input and recommendations.
>>? ? ? ? > The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP.
>>? ? ? ? Specifically for
>>? ? ? ? > this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP
>>? ? ? ? > standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called
>>? ? ? ? "module-level Service
>>? ? ? ? > Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different
>>? ? ? ? modules. Then
>>? ? ? ? > there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of
>>? ? ? ? naming what I
>>? ? ? ? > think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with
>>? ? ? ? > programming. That's it.
>>? ? ? ? > Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in
>>? ? ? ? this case I'm
>>? ? ? ? > not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to
>>? ? ? ? suggest, or the
>>? ? ? ? > 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series
>>? ? ? ? would know.
>>? ? ? ? > Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for
>>? ? ? ? the 54501A,
>>? ? ? ? > and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a
>>? ? ? ? bundle. If
>>? ? ? ? > no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at
>>? ? ? ? hand. I
>>? ? ? ? > am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point,
>>? ? ? ? though I
>>? ? ? ? > don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do
>>? ? ? ? regarding
>>? ? ? ? > the better?/later? 54522A).
>>? ? ? ? > Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated
>>? ? ? ? to 300MHz?
>>? ? ? ? > I can't make sense of that.
>>? ? ? ? > Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START
>>? ? ? ? REALTIME
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I
>>? ? ? ? think 60:
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace,
>>? ? ? ? it stated
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC
>>? ? ? ? Cal output
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED
>>? ? ? ? position
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?when I got it.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR.
>>? ? ? ? MOVE REAR
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN
>>? ? ? ? ON AGAIN.
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's an
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?error code?
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots
>>? ? ? ? successfully,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same
>>? ? ? ? error as
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* 5V out at DC Cal is good.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's why
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?it booted successfully.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants
>>? ? ? ? is done -
>>? ? ? ? > going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas
>>? ? ? ? RAMs are
>>? ? ? ? > out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for
>>? ? ? ? non-volatile
>>? ? ? ? > memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the
>>? ? ? ? rails are,
>>? ? ? ? > if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives
>>? ? ? ? some clues
>>? ? ? ? > on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems
>>? ? ? ? the issues
>>? ? ? ? > are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more
>>? ? ? ? streamlined.
>>? ? ? ? > Looking forward to your input.
>>? ? ? ? > Thank you,
>>? ? ? ? > Radu.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have uploaded a compressed .pdf version of the 11707A service manual to the files section.? Apologies for the watermark - I will add a watermark-less version to the by instrument area of the files section when I get time to post process properly
?
There is also a subdirectory 11707A that includes single page .tiff at 256 level 600 DPI if you need this data
?
Peter
|
Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
One can see a lot of scratches on top of that - I think someone before?me tried replacing this with limited success.?
On Thu, Feb 27, 2025 at 11:33?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher= [email protected]> wrote: I lifted today the CRT card, just enough to have some access to the battery, but I'm still unsure how it's supposed to come off. I tried prying the top spring "leaf," but it seems attached (possibly soldered) to the battery - or is that a top lid over the battery? And then there's a piece of foam underneath, possibly double-sided sticking. I'd rather not remove the whole mainboard just to replace this, but I don't think I can try many more prying and pulling before?I risk something more serious due to the lack of access.? Hoping someone having done this before?recognizes the type of battery and its socket from the enclosed pictures?and has some good pointers. I am not seeing any other battery on this board - I was expecting?a bigger, cylindrical?type, but I think this must be it for the 54512B.?
Thanks a bunch in advance. Radu.?
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 7:08?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks, Jim. I still have to perform that test where I play The Cure from my garage with the door open, which?I'm sure you'd hear from your bench!! ;))))
I tried?to pry off the battery this morning without further disassembly, but it doesn't want to come off that easily. There seems to be a blob of solder - has anyone seen that before? - on top of the holder, and some sort of?foam?tape below it. Maybe I need to apply force a little bit differently.?
Unless there's some secret?regarding how to remove the battery, I'll have to at least remove at least the CRT module to gain?better access to it. I really think access to a battery - even one guaranteed?a decade - should be easier than this. So this should be possible later in the week when I have more time.? Radu.?
Speaking of CR2032 coin cells, don’t spend $$ at a local store; order from Digital-Key for about $0.50 in quantity.? I usually buy 50 pieces at a time.? But then I have a keychain LED flashlight (torch for the Brits) that my kids bought me some years ago (best gift ever!) that takes 2 cells and a 3-LED baseball cap that I wear when walking my dogs at night that takes 4.? So I go through a lot of them.? Mouser might have them as well.? I’ve not ordered from D-K for a while because they buried the big product table, and it seems like something else they did got me PO’d at them.? HTH.
Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA
> On Feb 25, 2025, at 7:46?PM, Peter Gottlieb via <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?CR followed by numbers indicates the physical size, CR2032 etc.? I would say if you're already in there, replace them as even if they are good they won't last much longer.? I always replace memory hold up cells in anything that crosses my bench.? Low hanging fruit.
>
> The power supply might be low because of an overload caused by a shorted capacitor.? Perhaps try unplugging the supply connections. I can't remember if that model's supply will run correctly without load.? But if you do go inside it, check the capacitors for capacitance, leaks and ESR.
>
> Peter
>
>
>> On 2/25/2025 9:35 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via wrote:
>> I've gotten a bit of a chance tonight to check a couple of things with one of the units:
>>
>> *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>
>>? * Voltages on rails:
>>? ? ? o +11.924V
>>? ? ? o +12.050V
>>? ? ? o -3.27V(fluctuating somewhat; no significant ripple on it)
>>? ? ? o -5.2289V
>>? ? ? o 3.5285V
>>? ? ? o 5.2067V
>>? * There's a coin battery on the main board, which I didn't remove yet (I'd
>>? ? rather measure its voltage before I do, in case it's still good and holds
>>? ? the memory). It's a Panasonic and I can only read "CR..." from it. Would
>>? ? there potentially be more harm done by removing it, than simply losing the
>>? ? cal constants, in case it's still good for some reason? I'm thinking of
>>? ? biting the bullet and removing it, replacing it, and then seeing where
>>? ? that takes me.
>>
>> So this second unit has more issues than just a dead battery (in case the latter checks out). I'll have to remove the power supply module and see what could be wrong with the -12V rail. I'm provisionally blaming the unruly -12V rail for the additional error this second unit has, which the first doesn't. So my money's on that the first one has a good -12V rail.
>> Radu.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 7:14?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <> <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? Awesome, thank you, Peter.
>>
>>? ? I wonder if anyone has a fresh recollection of what battery or maybe
>>? ? battery-backed RAM would be suspect and possibly needed so I'd start
>>? ? working on an order to have the parts ready by the time I carve out some
>>? ? time to open these. From what I know about these generation scopes,
>>? ? replacing the battery is probably a good idea anyway. The cal constants
>>? ? seem to be gone, so nothing to lose there.
>>
>>? ? I wasn't able to find this information (particularly info on the battery)
>>? ? in the manuals, which I find odd.
>>? ? Radu.
>>
>>
>>? ? On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:26?AM Peter Gottlieb via
>>? ? <> <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? ? ? Seems like you are on the right track.? Many HP scopes of that era
>>? ? ? ? lose their
>>? ? ? ? minds if the memory battery goes dead.
>>
>>? ? ? ? Peter
>>
>>
>>? ? ? ? On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via
>>? ? ? ? <> wrote:
>>? ? ? ? > Hi all,
>>? ? ? ? > Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to
>>? ? ? ? bring back
>>? ? ? ? > to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they
>>? ? ? ? have some
>>? ? ? ? > commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully
>>? ? ? ? refurbished and
>>? ? ? ? > never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this
>>? ? ? ? other series,
>>? ? ? ? > and hope on some good input and recommendations.
>>? ? ? ? > The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP.
>>? ? ? ? Specifically for
>>? ? ? ? > this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP
>>? ? ? ? > standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called
>>? ? ? ? "module-level Service
>>? ? ? ? > Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different
>>? ? ? ? modules. Then
>>? ? ? ? > there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of
>>? ? ? ? naming what I
>>? ? ? ? > think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with
>>? ? ? ? > programming. That's it.
>>? ? ? ? > Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in
>>? ? ? ? this case I'm
>>? ? ? ? > not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to
>>? ? ? ? suggest, or the
>>? ? ? ? > 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series
>>? ? ? ? would know.
>>? ? ? ? > Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for
>>? ? ? ? the 54501A,
>>? ? ? ? > and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a
>>? ? ? ? bundle. If
>>? ? ? ? > no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at
>>? ? ? ? hand. I
>>? ? ? ? > am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point,
>>? ? ? ? though I
>>? ? ? ? > don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do
>>? ? ? ? regarding
>>? ? ? ? > the better?/later? 54522A).
>>? ? ? ? > Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated
>>? ? ? ? to 300MHz?
>>? ? ? ? > I can't make sense of that.
>>? ? ? ? > Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START
>>? ? ? ? REALTIME
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I
>>? ? ? ? think 60:
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace,
>>? ? ? ? it stated
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC
>>? ? ? ? Cal output
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED
>>? ? ? ? position
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?when I got it.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR.
>>? ? ? ? MOVE REAR
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN
>>? ? ? ? ON AGAIN.
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's an
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?error code?
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots
>>? ? ? ? successfully,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same
>>? ? ? ? error as
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* 5V out at DC Cal is good.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's why
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?it booted successfully.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants
>>? ? ? ? is done -
>>? ? ? ? > going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas
>>? ? ? ? RAMs are
>>? ? ? ? > out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for
>>? ? ? ? non-volatile
>>? ? ? ? > memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the
>>? ? ? ? rails are,
>>? ? ? ? > if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives
>>? ? ? ? some clues
>>? ? ? ? > on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems
>>? ? ? ? the issues
>>? ? ? ? > are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more
>>? ? ? ? streamlined.
>>? ? ? ? > Looking forward to your input.
>>? ? ? ? > Thank you,
>>? ? ? ? > Radu.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
I lifted today the CRT card, just enough to have some access to the battery, but I'm still unsure how it's supposed to come off. I tried prying the top spring "leaf," but it seems attached (possibly soldered) to the battery - or is that a top lid over the battery? And then there's a piece of foam underneath, possibly double-sided sticking. I'd rather not remove the whole mainboard just to replace this, but I don't think I can try many more prying and pulling before?I risk something more serious due to the lack of access.? Hoping someone having done this before?recognizes the type of battery and its socket from the enclosed pictures?and has some good pointers. I am not seeing any other battery on this board - I was expecting?a bigger, cylindrical?type, but I think this must be it for the 54512B.?
Thanks a bunch in advance. Radu.?
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 7:08?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks, Jim. I still have to perform that test where I play The Cure from my garage with the door open, which?I'm sure you'd hear from your bench!! ;))))
I tried?to pry off the battery this morning without further disassembly, but it doesn't want to come off that easily. There seems to be a blob of solder - has anyone seen that before? - on top of the holder, and some sort of?foam?tape below it. Maybe I need to apply force a little bit differently.?
Unless there's some secret?regarding how to remove the battery, I'll have to at least remove at least the CRT module to gain?better access to it. I really think access to a battery - even one guaranteed?a decade - should be easier than this. So this should be possible later in the week when I have more time.? Radu.?
Speaking of CR2032 coin cells, don’t spend $$ at a local store; order from Digital-Key for about $0.50 in quantity.? I usually buy 50 pieces at a time.? But then I have a keychain LED flashlight (torch for the Brits) that my kids bought me some years ago (best gift ever!) that takes 2 cells and a 3-LED baseball cap that I wear when walking my dogs at night that takes 4.? So I go through a lot of them.? Mouser might have them as well.? I’ve not ordered from D-K for a while because they buried the big product table, and it seems like something else they did got me PO’d at them.? HTH.
Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA
> On Feb 25, 2025, at 7:46?PM, Peter Gottlieb via <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?CR followed by numbers indicates the physical size, CR2032 etc.? I would say if you're already in there, replace them as even if they are good they won't last much longer.? I always replace memory hold up cells in anything that crosses my bench.? Low hanging fruit.
>
> The power supply might be low because of an overload caused by a shorted capacitor.? Perhaps try unplugging the supply connections. I can't remember if that model's supply will run correctly without load.? But if you do go inside it, check the capacitors for capacitance, leaks and ESR.
>
> Peter
>
>
>> On 2/25/2025 9:35 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via wrote:
>> I've gotten a bit of a chance tonight to check a couple of things with one of the units:
>>
>> *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>
>>? * Voltages on rails:
>>? ? ? o +11.924V
>>? ? ? o +12.050V
>>? ? ? o -3.27V(fluctuating somewhat; no significant ripple on it)
>>? ? ? o -5.2289V
>>? ? ? o 3.5285V
>>? ? ? o 5.2067V
>>? * There's a coin battery on the main board, which I didn't remove yet (I'd
>>? ? rather measure its voltage before I do, in case it's still good and holds
>>? ? the memory). It's a Panasonic and I can only read "CR..." from it. Would
>>? ? there potentially be more harm done by removing it, than simply losing the
>>? ? cal constants, in case it's still good for some reason? I'm thinking of
>>? ? biting the bullet and removing it, replacing it, and then seeing where
>>? ? that takes me.
>>
>> So this second unit has more issues than just a dead battery (in case the latter checks out). I'll have to remove the power supply module and see what could be wrong with the -12V rail. I'm provisionally blaming the unruly -12V rail for the additional error this second unit has, which the first doesn't. So my money's on that the first one has a good -12V rail.
>> Radu.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 7:14?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <> <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? Awesome, thank you, Peter.
>>
>>? ? I wonder if anyone has a fresh recollection of what battery or maybe
>>? ? battery-backed RAM would be suspect and possibly needed so I'd start
>>? ? working on an order to have the parts ready by the time I carve out some
>>? ? time to open these. From what I know about these generation scopes,
>>? ? replacing the battery is probably a good idea anyway. The cal constants
>>? ? seem to be gone, so nothing to lose there.
>>
>>? ? I wasn't able to find this information (particularly info on the battery)
>>? ? in the manuals, which I find odd.
>>? ? Radu.
>>
>>
>>? ? On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:26?AM Peter Gottlieb via
>>? ? <> <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? ? ? Seems like you are on the right track.? Many HP scopes of that era
>>? ? ? ? lose their
>>? ? ? ? minds if the memory battery goes dead.
>>
>>? ? ? ? Peter
>>
>>
>>? ? ? ? On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via
>>? ? ? ? <> wrote:
>>? ? ? ? > Hi all,
>>? ? ? ? > Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to
>>? ? ? ? bring back
>>? ? ? ? > to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they
>>? ? ? ? have some
>>? ? ? ? > commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully
>>? ? ? ? refurbished and
>>? ? ? ? > never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this
>>? ? ? ? other series,
>>? ? ? ? > and hope on some good input and recommendations.
>>? ? ? ? > The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP.
>>? ? ? ? Specifically for
>>? ? ? ? > this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP
>>? ? ? ? > standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called
>>? ? ? ? "module-level Service
>>? ? ? ? > Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different
>>? ? ? ? modules. Then
>>? ? ? ? > there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of
>>? ? ? ? naming what I
>>? ? ? ? > think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with
>>? ? ? ? > programming. That's it.
>>? ? ? ? > Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in
>>? ? ? ? this case I'm
>>? ? ? ? > not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to
>>? ? ? ? suggest, or the
>>? ? ? ? > 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series
>>? ? ? ? would know.
>>? ? ? ? > Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for
>>? ? ? ? the 54501A,
>>? ? ? ? > and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a
>>? ? ? ? bundle. If
>>? ? ? ? > no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at
>>? ? ? ? hand. I
>>? ? ? ? > am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point,
>>? ? ? ? though I
>>? ? ? ? > don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do
>>? ? ? ? regarding
>>? ? ? ? > the better?/later? 54522A).
>>? ? ? ? > Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated
>>? ? ? ? to 300MHz?
>>? ? ? ? > I can't make sense of that.
>>? ? ? ? > Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START
>>? ? ? ? REALTIME
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I
>>? ? ? ? think 60:
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace,
>>? ? ? ? it stated
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC
>>? ? ? ? Cal output
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED
>>? ? ? ? position
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?when I got it.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR.
>>? ? ? ? MOVE REAR
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN
>>? ? ? ? ON AGAIN.
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's an
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?error code?
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots
>>? ? ? ? successfully,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same
>>? ? ? ? error as
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* 5V out at DC Cal is good.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's why
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?it booted successfully.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants
>>? ? ? ? is done -
>>? ? ? ? > going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas
>>? ? ? ? RAMs are
>>? ? ? ? > out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for
>>? ? ? ? non-volatile
>>? ? ? ? > memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the
>>? ? ? ? rails are,
>>? ? ? ? > if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives
>>? ? ? ? some clues
>>? ? ? ? > on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems
>>? ? ? ? the issues
>>? ? ? ? > are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more
>>? ? ? ? streamlined.
>>? ? ? ? > Looking forward to your input.
>>? ? ? ? > Thank you,
>>? ? ? ? > Radu.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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There are several 3D models on thingverse. ?Just search for HP Agilent 8753.
--
Tim Wright
Senior Engineer
Cumulus Media Chicago - WLS-AM
AL7DS
|
Re: Service manual scan post processing
As far as I can tell all of the TWAIN files are being installed correctly, the scanner appears in the Windows hardware list but does not appear when you interrogate TWAIN devices
I do not have a good enough knowledge of how TWAIN works.?
My fear is that the TWAIN driver looks for a specific name string to be reported by the attached scanner and my scanner is not reporting with that exact string.
Still trying to find a reference that shows at a machine level how TWAIN works or how you go about writing a TWAIN driver - any pointers gratefully received.
?
Peter
?
|
Re: Service manual scan post processing
As long as there is a "twain" windows driver for the beast you
might try NAPS2.
Dave
On 27/02/2025 15:42, Peter Brown wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Michael,
?
I will DM (if that is possible) you about this.?
I too have a Minolta MS-6000 Mkii (aka Kodak 24000DSV-E) that
Windows can see but the supplied scanning software steadfastly
refuses to see.
?
Peter
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Re: Service manual scan post processing
Following the unlocking of gray scale mode on the Canon MS-800, I have scanned the service manual for the 11707A test plugin.
?
I have uploaded .tiff files for each page to the temporary file section here
temporary directory for photographs and help relating to emails and posting/11707A Service PFX 1525A 11707-90007 SEP 1977 rev 1
?
This should represent 'the best the machine can do' though I do need to experiment a little with the Automatic exposure / manual exposure options
?
I would be interested in feedback from members as to how well their post processing for .pdf works with these files.?
Especially interested in ways of preserving the picture quality whilst also tidying up / compressing the pages of text
?
Peter
?
|
Re: Service manual scan post processing
Hi Michael,
?
I will DM (if that is possible) you about this.?
I too have a Minolta MS-6000 Mkii (aka Kodak 24000DSV-E) that Windows can see but the supplied scanning software steadfastly refuses to see.
?
Peter
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
I have uploaded a compressed .pdf version of the 11707A service manual to the files section.? Apologies for the watermark - I will add a watermark-less version to the by instrument area of the files section when I get time to post process properly
?
There is also a subdirectory 11707A that includes single page .tiff at 256 level 600 DPI if you need this data
?
Peter
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Re: Adding Display Backlights
You could always do an OLED conversion..
?
?
I have made a few and they look fantastic.
Won't help with the LCR meter, but should be very compatuble with the PSU.
?
?
Jared
|
Hi,?
?
I have a HP 8752A VNA without the bezel for keys left side of display (ser photo).
Does anyone know where I can get one or photos/measurements so I can design something and to 3D printer, interesting to know if goes by pressure or any lock mechanism?
?
Thanks,
Emilio
?
|
Re: Adding Display Backlights
I suggest taking a look at the HP3488 Switch Unit LCD modules, which are
very similar form & fit.
I successfully added some LED lighting as an smd strip (side edge on) inside
the moulded frame.
It should be possible to duplicate this in the modules you have.
Then just picking up a convenient supply for the led strip from somewhere
else in the instrument...
It looks quite passble.
A look on the HP forum should reveal what I and other have done.
Hope it helps.
Regards
Nigel
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected]< [email protected]> On Behalf Of Yves Tardif via groups.io Sent: 27 February 2025 06:53 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Adding Display Backlights Hi Steve, I have a 6645A but also a 6642A. My 6642A being more easily accessible, I disassembled the display and took some pictures. For a backlight, it is not really possible. And for a side lighting, it will not be very easy to do. Here are some pictures of the display. Yves -----Message d'origine----- De?: [email protected]< [email protected]> De la part de Steve Hendrix Envoyé?: 26 février 2025 18:47 ??: [email protected]Objet?: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Adding Display Backlights I have several instruments, in particular HP6645A power supply and HP4263A LCR meter, that use LCDs. They would benefit greatly from a backlight in my lab environment. Has anyone come up with an easy way to add such? I need to open up the 6645A for another reason soon anyway, so might as well do any backlight kludge while I'm in there. Steve Hendrix
|
Re: Adding Display Backlights
Steve,
I did a quick test by holding a led in the upper left corner.
It might be possible to do something, but it would take 4 well-oriented
leds, with a low intensity.
Yves
|
Re: Adding Display Backlights
Hi Steve,
I have a 6645A but also a 6642A.
My 6642A being more easily accessible, I disassembled the display and took
some pictures.
For a backlight, it is not really possible.
And for a side lighting, it will not be very easy to do.
Here are some pictures of the display.
Yves
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Message d'origine----- De?: [email protected]< [email protected]> De la part de Steve Hendrix Envoyé?: 26 février 2025 18:47 ??: [email protected]Objet?: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Adding Display Backlights I have several instruments, in particular HP6645A power supply and HP4263A LCR meter, that use LCDs. They would benefit greatly from a backlight in my lab environment. Has anyone come up with an easy way to add such? I need to open up the 6645A for another reason soon anyway, so might as well do any backlight kludge while I'm in there. Steve Hendrix
|
On 2/26/25 20:35, Adrian Godwin via groups.io wrote: It's 'artificial' in the same sense as artificial flavouring or artificial grass.
'Fake' is probably a more conveniently accurate term.
I will welcome machine intelligence on day, but this isn't it. Well, it certainly is good at what it was apparently intended for: Identifying investors who don't have the mental capacity to understand what it actually is, and bilking them out of every dime. It is GREAT at that. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
It's 'artificial' in the same sense as artificial flavouring or artificial grass.
'Fake' is probably a more conveniently accurate term.
I will welcome machine intelligence on day, but this isn't it.
?
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Re: E5052A Power On Test (3.3V Bus Supply)
These SSAs are fairly rare items as they weren't produced in high qty by Agilent and they were quite expensive when new. I think they were $80k to $90k new. So you might not find one even in a large and well equipped lab.
?
I'm probably going to take the ATX power supply apart and check the electrolytic caps in it. There may also be some tired connections inside. The average power consumption is about 220W which probably puts quite a strain on the ATX PSU over a two decade timespan.
?
|
Adding Display Backlights
I have several instruments, in particular HP6645A power supply and HP4263A LCR meter, that use LCDs. They would benefit greatly from a backlight in my lab environment. Has anyone come up with an easy way to add such? I need to open up the 6645A for another reason soon anyway, so might as well do any backlight kludge while I'm in there.
Steve Hendrix
|
Re: 8753C VNA option upgrade
Here is the actual keygen application that is stored in the 'Files' section of the this group.??
Jim
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Tim Wright
Jared Cabot
Dave McGuire