Re: Service manual scan post processing
Peter,
Apologies about the late reply. I have a Minolta MS-6000 MKii. The thing is, SCSI was an option, and my Minolta originally did NOT have that option. I found someone parting out a SCSI equipped version and I installed the SCSI hardware on my Minolta, but it is not a completely straightforward process. I have not worked on the project for a number of years now.
Any luck on getting some of the fiche scanned in grayscale?
-Michael
On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 14:47 Peter Brown < peter@...> wrote: Which Minolta do you have?
?
I am in the process of trying to get a 2400DSV-E to talk to a PC myself
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Yeah I saw this a week or so ago when I was trying to access some Keysight forum posts that I had bookmarked with good information. Hopefully they will have all the old forum posts back at sone point... I should have "Internet Archived" them when I had ?the chance. The eternal reminder that bookmarks are not stable sources!
-Michael
A couple of attempts I made to post a question to keysight community (I think that what you're referring to as keysight forum?) did not ever appear online (once late last year, once sometime in late January.) In the past, I'd occasionally posted a question there and had responses and/or discussion.
I saw a banner on keysight community a month or so ago saying something to the effect that the community was going to be replaced by an AI driven solution mechanism, or something to that effect. (sigh...)
Tonight,
has only the text below.
---------------------------------------------------------------
is under construction
Stay tuned.
----------------------------------------------------------------
|
At least in its current state, "AI" is a poor substitute for the
real thing. I was looking for a 20W 50 ohm attenuator the other
day and the text associated with them read like a dictionary
definition, but no useful information about even the type of
attenuator I was looking at.
In truth, it should be called "CI", because the attribute that's
driving its adoption is CHEAP information
.
On 2/26/2025 12:55 PM, Roy J. Tellason,
Sr. via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tuesday 25 February 2025 10:00:25 pm David Feldman via groups.io wrote:
I saw a banner on keysight community a month or so ago saying something to the effect that the community was going to be replaced by an AI driven solution mechanism, or something to that effect. (sigh...)
I am bumping into this more and more lately, and hating every minute of it...
|
and by the time I do
get to someone ...my attitude is not very pleasant.
搁别苍é别
On 2/26/25 11:55 AM, Roy J. Tellason,
Sr. via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tuesday 25 February 2025 10:00:25 pm David Feldman via groups.io wrote:
I saw a banner on keysight community a month or so ago saying something to the effect that the community was going to be replaced by an AI driven solution mechanism, or something to that effect. (sigh...)
I am bumping into this more and more lately, and hating every minute of it...
|
This will get OT very quickly, but I personally started developing skills of navigating as quickly as possible through the AI-governed parts of phone menus and getting to live reps. It's getting harder and harder and more frequently impossible over the passage of time...
Radu.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025, 11:43 AM Roy J. Tellason, Sr. via <roy= [email protected]> wrote: On Tuesday 25 February 2025 10:00:25 pm David Feldman via wrote:
> I saw a banner on keysight community a month or so ago saying something to the effect that the community was going to be replaced by an AI driven solution mechanism, or something to that effect. (sigh...)
>
I am bumping into this more and more lately,? and hating every minute of it...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
|
On Tuesday 25 February 2025 10:00:25 pm David Feldman via groups.io wrote: I saw a banner on keysight community a month or so ago saying something to the effect that the community was going to be replaced by an AI driven solution mechanism, or something to that effect. (sigh...)
I am bumping into this more and more lately, and hating every minute of it... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
|
Re: Free: Repaired 6GHz coupler for 8753D/E or 85047A
The coupler is spoken for.
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
Arrived at SL1 oscillator output - it is unstable (wandering over a few hundred kHz.)
Re-confirmed stability of N1, N2, N3 and SL2 outputs using a second instrument.
Attached is photo from SL1 phase error test point.
Next stop is the 8660B main service manual, as the 00070 manual goes into no further detail at this point (there are three plug-in cards and possibly other components involved.)
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
(thanks again, Peter!!!!)
... and now back to our regularly scheduled programming...
The SL2 loop oscillator output test point is frequency-stable. As SL2 output moves from 30 MHz (setting x.x00 000 Hz) to 20 MHz (setting x.x99 999Hz), it's amplitude drops by about 50% but at each test point, SL2 output frequency matches the expected values in table A-5 and does not vary.
The test instruction paragraph 5-13 does not indicate a minimum signal level for SL2 oscillator output. The "wandering" problem at the 11707A 20-30 MHz output doesn't appear to be correlated to SL2 output level (that is, it wanders regardless of the bottom 5 digits.) Also, the wandering is wider in range (up to 300 kHz from what I can tell) than SL2's available tuning range.
SL2 oscillator output is available at two different test points - A2TP6 (callout 27 in figure C3, and requested in the test instruction paragraph 5-13), and XA15-2 pin 14 (callout 38 in figure C3). I found XA15-2 easier to access (A2TP6 is buried under two horizontally-mounted plug-in boards behind the front panel DCU assembly); XA15-2 is a pin of one of the card edge connectors (not particularly easy to reach, but certainly easier to see.)
Next stop will be SL1 output (which from what I can tell sends signal to the 11707A 20-30 MHz test connector, so hopefully the problem will then be somewhat isolated.
|
Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
Thanks, Jim. I still have to perform that test where I play The Cure from my garage with the door open, which?I'm sure you'd hear from your bench!! ;))))
I tried?to pry off the battery this morning without further disassembly, but it doesn't want to come off that easily. There seems to be a blob of solder - has anyone seen that before? - on top of the holder, and some sort of?foam?tape below it. Maybe I need to apply force a little bit differently.?
Unless there's some secret?regarding how to remove the battery, I'll have to at least remove at least the CRT module to gain?better access to it. I really think access to a battery - even one guaranteed?a decade - should be easier than this. So this should be possible later in the week when I have more time.? Radu.?
Speaking of CR2032 coin cells, don’t spend $$ at a local store; order from Digital-Key for about $0.50 in quantity.? I usually buy 50 pieces at a time.? But then I have a keychain LED flashlight (torch for the Brits) that my kids bought me some years ago (best gift ever!) that takes 2 cells and a 3-LED baseball cap that I wear when walking my dogs at night that takes 4.? So I go through a lot of them.? Mouser might have them as well.? I’ve not ordered from D-K for a while because they buried the big product table, and it seems like something else they did got me PO’d at them.? HTH.
Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA
> On Feb 25, 2025, at 7:46?PM, Peter Gottlieb via <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ?CR followed by numbers indicates the physical size, CR2032 etc.? I would say if you're already in there, replace them as even if they are good they won't last much longer.? I always replace memory hold up cells in anything that crosses my bench.? Low hanging fruit.
>
> The power supply might be low because of an overload caused by a shorted capacitor.? Perhaps try unplugging the supply connections. I can't remember if that model's supply will run correctly without load.? But if you do go inside it, check the capacitors for capacitance, leaks and ESR.
>
> Peter
>
>
>> On 2/25/2025 9:35 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via wrote:
>> I've gotten a bit of a chance tonight to check a couple of things with one of the units:
>>
>> *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>
>>? * Voltages on rails:
>>? ? ? o +11.924V
>>? ? ? o +12.050V
>>? ? ? o -3.27V(fluctuating somewhat; no significant ripple on it)
>>? ? ? o -5.2289V
>>? ? ? o 3.5285V
>>? ? ? o 5.2067V
>>? * There's a coin battery on the main board, which I didn't remove yet (I'd
>>? ? rather measure its voltage before I do, in case it's still good and holds
>>? ? the memory). It's a Panasonic and I can only read "CR..." from it. Would
>>? ? there potentially be more harm done by removing it, than simply losing the
>>? ? cal constants, in case it's still good for some reason? I'm thinking of
>>? ? biting the bullet and removing it, replacing it, and then seeing where
>>? ? that takes me.
>>
>> So this second unit has more issues than just a dead battery (in case the latter checks out). I'll have to remove the power supply module and see what could be wrong with the -12V rail. I'm provisionally blaming the unruly -12V rail for the additional error this second unit has, which the first doesn't. So my money's on that the first one has a good -12V rail.
>> Radu.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 7:14?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <> <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? Awesome, thank you, Peter.
>>
>>? ? I wonder if anyone has a fresh recollection of what battery or maybe
>>? ? battery-backed RAM would be suspect and possibly needed so I'd start
>>? ? working on an order to have the parts ready by the time I carve out some
>>? ? time to open these. From what I know about these generation scopes,
>>? ? replacing the battery is probably a good idea anyway. The cal constants
>>? ? seem to be gone, so nothing to lose there.
>>
>>? ? I wasn't able to find this information (particularly info on the battery)
>>? ? in the manuals, which I find odd.
>>? ? Radu.
>>
>>
>>? ? On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:26?AM Peter Gottlieb via
>>? ? <> <hpnpilot=[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>? ? ? ? Seems like you are on the right track.? Many HP scopes of that era
>>? ? ? ? lose their
>>? ? ? ? minds if the memory battery goes dead.
>>
>>? ? ? ? Peter
>>
>>
>>? ? ? ? On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via
>>? ? ? ? <> wrote:
>>? ? ? ? > Hi all,
>>? ? ? ? > Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to
>>? ? ? ? bring back
>>? ? ? ? > to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they
>>? ? ? ? have some
>>? ? ? ? > commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully
>>? ? ? ? refurbished and
>>? ? ? ? > never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this
>>? ? ? ? other series,
>>? ? ? ? > and hope on some good input and recommendations.
>>? ? ? ? > The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP.
>>? ? ? ? Specifically for
>>? ? ? ? > this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP
>>? ? ? ? > standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called
>>? ? ? ? "module-level Service
>>? ? ? ? > Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different
>>? ? ? ? modules. Then
>>? ? ? ? > there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of
>>? ? ? ? naming what I
>>? ? ? ? > think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with
>>? ? ? ? > programming. That's it.
>>? ? ? ? > Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in
>>? ? ? ? this case I'm
>>? ? ? ? > not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to
>>? ? ? ? suggest, or the
>>? ? ? ? > 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series
>>? ? ? ? would know.
>>? ? ? ? > Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for
>>? ? ? ? the 54501A,
>>? ? ? ? > and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a
>>? ? ? ? bundle. If
>>? ? ? ? > no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at
>>? ? ? ? hand. I
>>? ? ? ? > am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point,
>>? ? ? ? though I
>>? ? ? ? > don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do
>>? ? ? ? regarding
>>? ? ? ? > the better?/later? 54522A).
>>? ? ? ? > Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated
>>? ? ? ? to 300MHz?
>>? ? ? ? > I can't make sense of that.
>>? ? ? ? > Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START
>>? ? ? ? REALTIME
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I
>>? ? ? ? think 60:
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace,
>>? ? ? ? it stated
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?"Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC
>>? ? ? ? Cal output
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED
>>? ? ? ? position
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?when I got it.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR.
>>? ? ? ? MOVE REAR
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN
>>? ? ? ? ON AGAIN.
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's an
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?error code?
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots
>>? ? ? ? successfully,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same
>>? ? ? ? error as
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* 5V out at DC Cal is good.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe
>>? ? ? ? that's why
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?it booted successfully.
>>? ? ? ? >? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
>>? ? ? ? panel,
>>? ? ? ? >? ? ?though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>? ? ? ? > To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants
>>? ? ? ? is done -
>>? ? ? ? > going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas
>>? ? ? ? RAMs are
>>? ? ? ? > out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for
>>? ? ? ? non-volatile
>>? ? ? ? > memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the
>>? ? ? ? rails are,
>>? ? ? ? > if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives
>>? ? ? ? some clues
>>? ? ? ? > on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems
>>? ? ? ? the issues
>>? ? ? ? > are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more
>>? ? ? ? streamlined.
>>? ? ? ? > Looking forward to your input.
>>? ? ? ? > Thank you,
>>? ? ? ? > Radu.
>>? ? ? ? >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
Peter this would be really helpful - in my searching, I've never found a manual (and I think that's a pretty common problem because while the operation is straightforward, no one seems to know the utility/meaning of the LED indicators, and of course being able to repair the thing would be invaluable!
Thanks,
Dave(s)
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
I would like a copy! After I saw Dave Feldman's request, I went through my 8660x documents yesterday and the 11707A is the only one for which I have the instrument but not the manual.
I's even borrow it, scan it, return it and list ot online.
I have an?OP service manual for the 11707A
?
Paper part number - 11707-90006
Fiche number - 11707-90007
Serial number prefix - 1503A
Dates July 1975 and? Sept 1977 rev 1 (look to be identical
?
About 25 pages plus schematics
?
Let me know if this would be worthwhile scanning
?
Peter
?
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
I have an?OP service manual for the 11707A
?
Paper part number - 11707-90006
Fiche number - 11707-90007
Serial number prefix - 1503A
Dates July 1975 and? Sept 1977 rev 1 (look to be identical
?
About 25 pages plus schematics
?
Let me know if this would be worthwhile scanning
?
Peter
?
|
Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
Speaking of CR2032 coin cells, don’t spend $$ at a local store; order from Digital-Key for about $0.50 in quantity. I usually buy 50 pieces at a time. But then I have a keychain LED flashlight (torch for the Brits) that my kids bought me some years ago (best gift ever!) that takes 2 cells and a 3-LED baseball cap that I wear when walking my dogs at night that takes 4. So I go through a lot of them. Mouser might have them as well. I’ve not ordered from D-K for a while because they buried the big product table, and it seems like something else they did got me PO’d at them. HTH.
Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 25, 2025, at 7:46?PM, Peter Gottlieb via groups.io <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
?CR followed by numbers indicates the physical size, CR2032 etc. I would say if you're already in there, replace them as even if they are good they won't last much longer. I always replace memory hold up cells in anything that crosses my bench. Low hanging fruit.
The power supply might be low because of an overload caused by a shorted capacitor. Perhaps try unplugging the supply connections. I can't remember if that model's supply will run correctly without load. But if you do go inside it, check the capacitors for capacitance, leaks and ESR.
Peter
On 2/25/2025 9:35 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote:
I've gotten a bit of a chance tonight to check a couple of things with one of the units:
*Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
* Voltages on rails:
o +11.924V
o +12.050V
o -3.27V(fluctuating somewhat; no significant ripple on it)
o -5.2289V
o 3.5285V
o 5.2067V
* There's a coin battery on the main board, which I didn't remove yet (I'd
rather measure its voltage before I do, in case it's still good and holds
the memory). It's a Panasonic and I can only read "CR..." from it. Would
there potentially be more harm done by removing it, than simply losing the
cal constants, in case it's still good for some reason? I'm thinking of
biting the bullet and removing it, replacing it, and then seeing where
that takes me.
So this second unit has more issues than just a dead battery (in case the latter checks out). I'll have to remove the power supply module and see what could be wrong with the -12V rail. I'm provisionally blaming the unruly -12V rail for the additional error this second unit has, which the first doesn't. So my money's on that the first one has a good -12V rail.
Radu.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 7:14?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io <> <vondicher@...> wrote:
Awesome, thank you, Peter.
I wonder if anyone has a fresh recollection of what battery or maybe
battery-backed RAM would be suspect and possibly needed so I'd start
working on an order to have the parts ready by the time I carve out some
time to open these. From what I know about these generation scopes,
replacing the battery is probably a good idea anyway. The cal constants
seem to be gone, so nothing to lose there.
I wasn't able to find this information (particularly info on the battery)
in the manuals, which I find odd.
Radu.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:26?AM Peter Gottlieb via groups.io
<> <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
Seems like you are on the right track. Many HP scopes of that era
lose their
minds if the memory battery goes dead.
Peter
On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io
<> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to
bring back
> to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they
have some
> commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully
refurbished and
> never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this
other series,
> and hope on some good input and recommendations.
> The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP.
Specifically for
> this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP
> standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called
"module-level Service
> Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different
modules. Then
> there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of
naming what I
> think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with
> programming. That's it.
> Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in
this case I'm
> not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to
suggest, or the
> 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series
would know.
> Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for
the 54501A,
> and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a
bundle. If
> no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at
hand. I
> am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point,
though I
> don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do
regarding
> the better?/later? 54522A).
> Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated
to 300MHz?
> I can't make sense of that.
> Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
> *Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
>
> * Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START
REALTIME
> CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I
think 60:
> "REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
> * Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace,
it stated
> "Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
> * Self Test passes all.
> * I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC
Cal output
> in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
> * Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED
position
> when I got it.
> * I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
panel.
>
> *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>
> * Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR.
MOVE REAR
> PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN
ON AGAIN.
> RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
> * It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe
that's an
> error code?
> * Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots
successfully,
> goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
> interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
> * Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same
error as
> default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
> * 5V out at DC Cal is good.
> * This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe
that's why
> it booted successfully.
> * I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
panel,
> though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
>
> To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants
is done -
> going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas
RAMs are
> out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for
non-volatile
> memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the
rails are,
> if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives
some clues
> on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems
the issues
> are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more
streamlined.
> Looking forward to your input.
> Thank you,
> Radu.
>
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
I found this while searching for HP 11707A information:
If there is need and interest, perhaps upload it to the files section here?
I've found it to be very useful (more "cookbook style" than the single-model service manuals for 8660A, 8660B and 8660C.)
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
David:
?
Please post a link to the manual that you found.
?
Thanks
?
ed
|
Free: Repaired 6GHz coupler for 8753D/E or 85047A
Do you need a coupler to fix your network analyzer?
I have a repaired 5087-6007 coupler which should fit the 8753D, E, ES or ET or the 85047A test set.
It was presumably blown out with applied RF killing the 3 resistors in the broadband coupler.? I replaced them with surface mount parts.? Uncorrected performance does not meet the published specs, especially near the high end, but the coupler works fine with corrections on.
Be aware that any unit with a blown coupler likely also had damage to the source switch.? Sometimes that can be corrected by removing the protection diodes in the switch:? They tend to go shorted when overloaded, saving the rest of the circuitry in the switch.
The coupler is free for pickup in the Los Angeles area, or I can send it to a USA destination by USPS.
For those interested in the history of this coupler design, attached is an article by Joel Dunsmore describing how the coupler works.
Contact me directly if interested:? johngord (at) verizon (dot) net
?
--John Gord
?
|
Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
CR followed by numbers indicates the physical size, CR2032 etc.? I would say if you're already in there, replace them as even if they are good they won't last much longer.? I always replace memory hold up cells in anything that crosses my bench.? Low hanging fruit.
The power supply might be low because of an overload caused by a shorted capacitor.? Perhaps try unplugging the supply connections. I can't remember if that model's supply will run correctly without load.? But if you do go inside it, check the capacitors for capacitance, leaks and ESR.
Peter
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/25/2025 9:35 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote: I've gotten a bit of a chance tonight to check a couple of?things with one of the units:
*Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
* Voltages on rails:
o +11.924V
o +12.050V
o -3.27V(fluctuating somewhat; no significant ripple on it)
o -5.2289V
o 3.5285V
o 5.2067V
* There's a coin battery on the main board, which I didn't remove yet (I'd
rather measure its voltage before I do, in case it's still good and holds
the memory). It's a Panasonic and I can only read "CR..." from it. Would
there potentially be more harm done by removing it, than simply losing the
cal constants, in case it's still good for some reason? I'm thinking of
biting the bullet and removing it, replacing it, and then seeing where
that takes me.
So this second unit has more issues than just a dead battery (in case the latter checks out). I'll have to remove the power supply module and see what could be wrong with the -12V rail. I'm provisionally blaming the unruly -12V rail for the additional error this second unit has, which the first doesn't. So my money's on that the?first one has a good -12V rail.
Radu.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 7:14?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io <> <vondicher@...> wrote:
Awesome, thank you, Peter.
I wonder if anyone has a fresh recollection of what battery or maybe
battery-backed RAM would be suspect and possibly needed so I'd start
working on an order to have the parts ready by the time I carve out some
time to open these. From what I know about these generation scopes,
replacing the battery is probably a good idea anyway. The cal constants
seem to be gone, so nothing to lose there.
I wasn't able to find this information (particularly info on the battery)
in the manuals, which I find odd.
Radu.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:26?AM Peter Gottlieb via groups.io
<> <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
Seems like you are on the right track.? Many HP scopes of that era
lose their
minds if the memory battery goes dead.
Peter
On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io
<> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to
bring back
> to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they
have some
> commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully
refurbished and
> never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this
other series,
> and hope on some good input and recommendations.
> The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP.
Specifically for
> this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP
> standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called
"module-level Service
> Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different
modules. Then
> there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of
naming what I
> think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with
> programming. That's it.
> Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in
this case I'm
> not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to
suggest, or the
> 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series
would know.
> Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for
the 54501A,
> and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a
bundle. If
> no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at
hand. I
> am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point,
though I
> don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do
regarding
> the better?/later? 54522A).
> Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated
to 300MHz?
> I can't make sense of that.
> Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
> *Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
>
>? ?* Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START
REALTIME
>? ? ?CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I
think 60:
>? ? ?"REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
>? ?* Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace,
it stated
>? ? ?"Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
>? ?* Self Test passes all.
>? ?* I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC
Cal output
>? ? ?in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
>? ?* Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED
position
>? ? ?when I got it.
>? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
panel.
>
> *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>
>? ?* Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR.
MOVE REAR
>? ? ?PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN
ON AGAIN.
>? ? ?RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
>? ?* It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe
that's an
>? ? ?error code?
>? ?* Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots
successfully,
>? ? ?goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
>? ? ?interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
>? ?* Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same
error as
>? ? ?default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
>? ?* 5V out at DC Cal is good.
>? ?* This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe
that's why
>? ? ?it booted successfully.
>? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front
panel,
>? ? ?though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
>
> To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants
is done -
> going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas
RAMs are
> out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for
non-volatile
> memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the
rails are,
> if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives
some clues
> on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems
the issues
> are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more
streamlined.
> Looking forward to your input.
> Thank you,
> Radu.
>
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Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
The 08660-90070 manual (HP 8660A/B/C service) has been helpful/friendly so far.
There are separate "big" operating/service manuals for 8660A, B and C; the 08660-90070 manual sends technicians to one of the "big" manuals at some point - I've not reached that yet.
The unstable 20-30 MHz output seen on HP 11707A test plug-in (typically been 200-300 kHz below specified frequency with considerable "wandering around" in that range) led me to another section in the 08660-90070 manual, which describes that frequency being driven by three synthesizers (called N1, N2 and N3). The three synthesizer outputs can be measured from the bottom side of the motherboard at pins shown in the same manual. After a little learning curve and oscilloscope adjustment, it turns out that those three signals appear to be correct (and stable) - the match tables in Appendix A.
N1, N2 and N3 feed two more synthesizers called SL1 and SL2 (Sl1 appears to be presented at the 11707A output.)
That's the next step.
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A couple of attempts I made to post a question to keysight community (I think that what you're referring to as keysight forum?) did not ever appear online (once late last year, once sometime in late January.) In the past, I'd occasionally posted a question there and had responses and/or discussion.
I saw a banner on keysight community a month or so ago saying something to the effect that the community was going to be replaced by an AI driven solution mechanism, or something to that effect. (sigh...)
Tonight,
has only the text below.
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is under construction
Stay tuned.
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Bill Carver
