Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
Hi,
?
I would not try to do this without the option to preheat the board to around 80C.
The problem is that it really hard to extract the 56pins in one go.
?
I my suggestion is to use ChipQuick on a preheated board to lower solder the melting
temperature to below 100C and use a heatgun to heat all 56pin in one go.
Lift the connector and clean with a cotton swab and more flux and a little heat.
?
To clean out the holes a compressed air gun might be of help while still heating.
?
ChipQuick and Chip Quik Flux are available at Mouser and other distributers.
there versions for lead and lead free soldering.
?
6 layerboards are really hard as its takes away a lot of heat and true holes
connecting multiple layer are easly damaged.
?
Good luck | Regard Rens
?
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
TinySA Ultra used to check outputs from the 11707A (except for the two 11661B-related outputs, as I forgot to enable the "Ultra" mode for coverage > 800 MHz.
The 500, 100, 20 and 350-450 MHz signals are stable and within spec except for the 350-450 MHz signal which is about 1 dB below minimum power spec.
The 20-30 MHz signal is unstable - while it has about -7 dBm output level (attached photo from the spectrum analyzer is down 10 dB as I have a 10 dB pad in the input path), the frequency is not stable, and the center frequency wanders (I'm not sure of the total extent of the frequency instability yet.) Spectrum analyzer display is attached.
The interesting thing at this point is that the spectrum display from the 20-30 MHz signal has the same deficiencies as the output from the generator itself. I do not know the expected frequency from the 20-30 MHz signal (the generator is in it's power-up frequency of 1.000 MHz), however, it is about 29.7 MHz, and measurements from the generator's output when I initially suspected a problem were routinely 250-300 kHz below the frequency entered on the keypad.
I've done no further testing (need get the TinySA Ultra into it's GHz-capable mode - this is no secret, just need find the appropriate instruction) so I can check the 2.75-4.05 GHz signals available on the 11707A.
Thanks again for the suggestions/help!
Dave
|
Re: Searching parts for HP 5370B
I can't help with the front panel frame, but I might be able to help with the filter.? I had to replace the one on my unit and ended up machining one out of 1/16" red acrylic and then using a vinyl stencil to pain on lettering.? I'll take pictures when I get home later and can share the fusion360 design files if you want
|
Re: HP Agilent 8753ES VNA repair [Help]
Matt,
What do you see if you display the A, B, and R with MEAS/INPUT_PORTS? ?? (I assume menus are similar the the 8753D)
On my 8753D, the R channel is at about 0dB displayed (with some ripple) and A is also about 0dB if the port is open.
--John Gord
?
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
Hi Ed, WB2UAQ ---
Thank you both for quick and helpful replies!
Ed - with your suggestion, I remembered that I do have a 11707A and it is now in the unit (I've never used it before as I've not had a 8660 failure, and I don't believe I've ever heard of a 11707A manual).
I also remembered that I have a 08660-90070 8660A/B/C service manual, which makes use of the 11707A test plug-in (an
online search for 11707A pointed me to that manual which makes use of it.)
Using the 08660-90070 manual, I am beginning tests:
The power supply voltage measurements on page first requiring those tests all show within spec.
The 350-450 MHz output is a couple of db below minimum spec (measured using 436A/8484A with 40 dB inline attenuator); all of the other RF level test points on the 11707A are above minimum spec.
I am now recharging TinySA Ultra (covers to 800 MHz) so I can look at the signal quality.
Thanks again, I'll update once I have any more specific results.
Dave
|
Re: HP Agilent 8753ES VNA repair [Help]
Hi, ? I did some tests on my working 8753ES. These results could be used for comparison. ? Yves
|
Re: 8596E Spectrum Analyzer Fault
Instead of START / STOP, try entering as CENTER and SPAN. ?Just to see if it freezes when it has enough info to start a sweep, or if it is related specifically to the sweep defined by entering the STOP frequency.
?
Does it sweep when first powered on, or after preset..?
?
Trying to get at whether this is a problem with the sweep synthesis set up, or something related to keypress handling...
|
Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
Awesome, thank you, Peter.? I wonder if anyone has a fresh recollection of what battery or maybe battery-backed RAM would be suspect and possibly needed so I'd start working on an order to have the parts ready by the time I carve out some time to open these. From what I know about these generation scopes, replacing the battery is probably a good idea anyway. The cal constants seem to be gone, so nothing to lose there.? I wasn't able to find this information (particularly info on the battery) in the manuals, which I find odd.?
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:26?AM Peter Gottlieb via <hpnpilot= [email protected]> wrote: Seems like you are on the right track.? Many HP scopes of that era lose their
minds if the memory battery goes dead.
Peter
On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via wrote:
> Hi all,
> Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to bring back
> to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they have some
> commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully refurbished and
> never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this other series,
> and hope on some good input and recommendations.
> The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP. Specifically for
> this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP
> standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called "module-level Service
> Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different modules. Then
> there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of naming what I
> think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with
> programming. That's it.
> Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in this case I'm
> not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to suggest, or the
> 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series would know.
> Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for the 54501A,
> and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a bundle. If
> no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at hand. I
> am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point, though I
> don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do regarding
> the better?/later? 54522A).
> Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated to 300MHz?
> I can't make sense of that.
> Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
> *Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
>
>? ?* Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START REALTIME
>? ? ?CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I think 60:
>? ? ?"REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
>? ?* Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace, it stated
>? ? ?"Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
>? ?* Self Test passes all.
>? ?* I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC Cal output
>? ? ?in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
>? ?* Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED position
>? ? ?when I got it.
>? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front panel.
>
> *Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
>
>? ?* Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR. MOVE REAR
>? ? ?PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN ON AGAIN.
>? ? ?RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
>? ?* It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe that's an
>? ? ?error code?
>? ?* Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots successfully,
>? ? ?goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
>? ? ?interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
>? ?* Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same error as
>? ? ?default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
>? ?* 5V out at DC Cal is good.
>? ?* This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe that's why
>? ? ?it booted successfully.
>? ?* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front panel,
>? ? ?though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
>
> To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants is done -
> going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas RAMs are
> out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for non-volatile
> memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the rails are,
> if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives some clues
> on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems the issues
> are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more streamlined.
> Looking forward to your input.
> Thank you,
> Radu.
>
|
Re: HP 54512B (pair) repair
Seems like you are on the right track.? Many HP scopes of that era lose their minds if the memory battery goes dead.
Peter
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/24/2025 11:09 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote: Hi all,
Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to bring back to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they have some commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully refurbished and never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this other series, and hope on some good input and recommendations.
The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP. Specifically for this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called "module-level Service Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different modules. Then there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of naming what I think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with programming. That's it.
Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in this case I'm not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to suggest, or the 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series would know. Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for the 54501A, and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a bundle. If no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at hand. I am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point, though I don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do regarding the better?/later? 54522A).
Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated to 300MHz? I can't make sense of that.
Now, on to the specific issues with the units.
*Unit #1 *(S/N: 3214A00705)
* Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START REALTIME
CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I think 60:
"REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
* Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace, it stated
"Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
* Self Test passes all.
* I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC Cal output
in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.
* Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED position
when I got it.
* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front panel.
*Unit #2 *(S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
* Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR. MOVE REAR
PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN ON AGAIN.
RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."
* It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe that's an
error code?
* Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots successfully,
goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed
interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.
* Self Test passes all /but/ Timebase. It also displays the same error as
default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").
* 5V out at DC Cal is good.
* This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe that's why
it booted successfully.
* I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front panel,
though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.
To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants is done - going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas RAMs are out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for non-volatile memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the rails are, if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives some clues on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems the issues are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more streamlined.
Looking forward to your input.
Thank you,
Radu.
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
And the likely price difference is worth paying in strides. I've said this before - in full agreement?with Dave McGuire - but there's no price that's too high to get good, well working tools. The?best tool for the job is the right decision 100% of the time.?
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 5:20?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher= [email protected]> wrote: I think once one gets to use?both kinds of units - "pistol" type like the FR301, and "pen" type like an SX-80/90/100 by Pace, for instance - the advantages become very clear.? I've converted friends to the latter kind, but you really have to try both to see how much better the second type is. Once they tried it, they sold themselves,?and I didn't need to explain anything anymore.? Radu.?
Bought one a few years ago and wish I had bought it sooner.
?
It is really a fun tool to use, and having enough heat will not be a problem. I usually keep mine on the "2.5" setting or so, which offhand, I think is about half.
?
I've done boards with hundreds of pins and using this tool is pretty fun. There's a certain technique to learn to apply the right amount of pressure, for the right amount of time, to not inadvertently start lifting pads/start burning the board. One locked in, I can remove a 40-pin IC in a minute.
?
Like any tool, you've got to keep it clean, replace the filters, good videos on YT showing how. You'll lose suction otherwise.?
?
In my last session, I discovered how hot the cleaning pin gets that you ram down the barrel while the iron is hot so that no solder gets stuck. Don't touch it. :)
?
Love mine for general hobbyist use.?
Keith
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
I think once one gets to use?both kinds of units - "pistol" type like the FR301, and "pen" type like an SX-80/90/100 by Pace, for instance - the advantages become very clear.? I've converted friends to the latter kind, but you really have to try both to see how much better the second type is. Once they tried it, they sold themselves,?and I didn't need to explain anything anymore.? Radu.?
Bought one a few years ago and wish I had bought it sooner.
?
It is really a fun tool to use, and having enough heat will not be a problem. I usually keep mine on the "2.5" setting or so, which offhand, I think is about half.
?
I've done boards with hundreds of pins and using this tool is pretty fun. There's a certain technique to learn to apply the right amount of pressure, for the right amount of time, to not inadvertently start lifting pads/start burning the board. One locked in, I can remove a 40-pin IC in a minute.
?
Like any tool, you've got to keep it clean, replace the filters, good videos on YT showing how. You'll lose suction otherwise.?
?
In my last session, I discovered how hot the cleaning pin gets that you ram down the barrel while the iron is hot so that no solder gets stuck. Don't touch it. :)
?
Love mine for general hobbyist use.?
Keith
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
Bought one a few years ago and wish I had bought it sooner.
?
It is really a fun tool to use, and having enough heat will not be a problem. I usually keep mine on the "2.5" setting or so, which offhand, I think is about half.
?
I've done boards with hundreds of pins and using this tool is pretty fun. There's a certain technique to learn to apply the right amount of pressure, for the right amount of time, to not inadvertently start lifting pads/start burning the board. One locked in, I can remove a 40-pin IC in a minute.
?
Like any tool, you've got to keep it clean, replace the filters, good videos on YT showing how. You'll lose suction otherwise.?
?
In my last session, I discovered how hot the cleaning pin gets that you ram down the barrel while the iron is hot so that no solder gets stuck. Don't touch it. :)
?
Love mine for general hobbyist use.?
Keith
|
Re: HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request
If you can locate an HP 11707A test plug in, it can be a bog help. It brings many of the signals out to the front of the unit for easy access.
Unfortunately I do not see any on EBAY...
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
The Hakko FR301 is the only desoldering gun I have direct experience with.? I bought one after years of just using wick, iron, and heat gun or all 3.? I was thoroughly impressed with how well it worked.? I have heard anecdotely that earlier versions of this gun did have heating element issues, but that they were resolved in the newest revision.? I also like how easy it is to clean and service.? It also heats up very quickly.??
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
Sergey,
I appreciate your input.
Yes there is a trailing power cord but in comparison to some other desoldering handpieces that have both a power cord and a vacuum line having only one item helps make the unit more maneuverable.
You obviously do not have a good impression of the FR301. I do. And I appreciate your impressions of it and possibly you have had a bad experience with one in the past. I have had excellent good success using it over the years. I favor it over all of the Metcal, Kurtz Ersa and Weller units in the lab for desoldering when a quick part removal is needed. It is also nice in the field since you don’t have a lot of extra hardware trailing behind you.
As for removal of certain items of which you indicated that you choose various other approaches and accessories to use, we choose various other methods outside of simple heated desoldering equipment. One such approach is use of non-contact variable focus IR desoldering units with pinpoint accuracy so as not to mechanically disturb the joints except for drawing the solder away from the target area. This eliminates having to “scrub” a tip over the PWB pad area thereby minimizing any damage that could occur. You would probably find a custom machine of this type to be excessively expensive to obtain (~>$2000 - $2500). These are very esoteric machines and are not for a hobbyist.
As for the “sledgeghammer” and “abomination” opinions I am sorry that you find the FR301 to not meet your needs. We are not all alike and such opinions are purely the impression of the particular user. I do not consider the FR301 to be of that ilk. My arms have never complained and there has never been any damage to the boards and other circuitry that we work on even when having to comply with commercial, aerospace and military soldering standards required by some of our clients.
Greg
|
Hi all,
Over the weekend I've got a couple of 54512Bs at my desk to seek to bring back to full functionality. My main scope is a 54522A, and I assume they have some commonalities, but I've yet to open mine (it came to me fully refurbished and never needed to open the case). I'm not very familiar with this other series, and hope on some good input and recommendations.
?
The documentation is not as good as others I've seen from HP. Specifically for this unit (54512B), Keysight only seems to have a very skinny (by HP standards) Service Manual which can't honestly be called "module-level Service Manual," as it doesn't really into much detail on the different modules. Then there's a "Front Panel Reference," which is an odd other way of naming what I think is the Operating Manual. A couple other manuals have to do with programming. That's it.?
?
Sometimes in a series you have to look for the main unit, but in this case I'm not sure that's the 54501A, as the catalog spec sheet seems to suggest, or the 54505B, as per the SM. Maybe someone very familiar with the series would know. Artek doesn't have manuals for the 54512B at all, but they do for the 54501A, and if applicable, I'd get the series of six manuals they sell as a bundle. If no go, I'll be a bit in a bind with fixing this given what I have at hand. I am aware HP was not longer offering component SMs by this point, though I don't know for a fact on this specific series and scope (but I do regarding the better?/later? 54522A).?
?
Is this really capable of FFT to 500MHz, even if the scope is rated to 300MHz? I can't make sense of that.?
?
Now, on to the specific issues with the units.?
?
Unit #1 (S/N: 3214A00705)
- Upon starting it, it reports something like "TRYING TO START REALTIME CLOCK," which is unsuccessful after a time countdown from I think 60: "REALTIME CLOCK FAILED TO START - DISABLED."
- Once I get it to display the default screen and output a trace, it stated "Default cal loaded. Re-cal instrument."
- Self Test passes all.?
- I'm also seeing a solid and apparently accurate 5V from the DC Cal output in the back. I haven't tried the AC Cal output.?
- Note this one had the Cal switch in the back in the UNPROTECTED position when I got it.?
- I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front panel.?
?
Unit #2 (S/N: 3214A00704: consecutive units!)
- Upon staring it, it stated "CALIBRATION FACTOR CHECKSUM ERROR. MOVE REAR PANEL CAL SWITCH TO UNPROTECTED. POWER INSTRUMENT OFF AND THEN ON AGAIN. RE-CAL INSTRUMENT."?
- It also says "Trying to start realtime clock (09290)." Maybe that's an error code???
- Upon switching the rear Cal switch to UNPROTECTED, it boots successfully, goes to a default measurement screen, but gives me a warning "Failed interpolar cal." The trace seems to jump around on Y a bit.?
- Self Test passes all but Timebase. It also displays the same error as default screen ("Failed interpolar cal").?
- 5V out at DC Cal is good.?
- This one had the Cal switch in UNPROTECTED position, so maybe that's why it booted successfully.?
- I'm able to display the square wave test signal from the front panel, though it seems to be offset vertically a bit.?
?
To me, this seems to tell me the battery holding the cal constants is done - going by what I know about my 54522A. It's also possible some Dallas RAMs are out of battery - though I don't know if this uses those for non-volatile memory. I have not yet opened the units, so I've no idea where the rails are, if any caps have leaked, etc. But maybe the information above gives some clues on what's going on, enough to start thinking on it. It also seems the issues are shared very similarly, so maybe that's making the repair more streamlined.?
?
Looking forward to your input.?
?
Thank you,
Radu.?
?
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
On 2/24/25 22:29, Sergey Kubushyn wrote: You don't have a vacuum hose to a soldering station but you have a hammer
(motor/turnine) in your very hand that is supposed to do a precise delicate
job of proper positioning, than activating and deactivating vacuum. Then,
you have to struggle with a jump caused by motor rotor inertia when it
starts. Mine doesn't jump at all when triggered. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025, Greg Muir via groups.io wrote: As of no trailing cables it is a misstatement. You STILL have a trailing cable. It doesn't matter if it goes to a soldering station or to a mains outlet. You don't have a vacuum hose to a soldering station but you have a hammer (motor/turnine) in your very hand that is supposed to do a precise delicate job of proper positioning, than activating and deactivating vacuum. Then, you have to struggle with a jump caused by motor rotor inertia when it starts. Now, for a proper desoldering iron you have a cable (which you STILL have on that FR301) and a vacuum hose. The latter is very light and flexible and adds almost nothing to the electrical cable you have no matter what. It is the same diameter as your electrical cable, not a half-inch hose. As of desk tool FR301 is an abomination, having a grace of a sledgehammer without ANY benefits. I personally use Weller desoldering tools with my WR3M and WXR3 soldering stations on my desk. Have both straight and angled ones. They are light, have no start torque, cable/hose is extremely soft, and they have enough juice for 6-layer board. The only reasonable use case for that sledgehammer of desoldering tool is when one has to do some desoldering outside his desk, kinda like in the field. I can't think of such a case but it might exist although it is definitely a very rare one. The only advantage of FR301 over my Weller irons (WXDP120/WXDV120 for WXR3, more juice, and DSX80/DXV80 for WR3M, slightly more delicate and cheaper) is one particular tip they have, an oval one. It is good for desoldering old electrolytic cans (and some parts with flat leads). Unfortunately enough Weller does not make anything like that. Don't know if anybody else does. Same success as Dave previously mentioned.
I exclusively use the FR301 on every job for unsoldering components, etc. It successfully removes all solder from thru holes allowing leaded parts to be removed easily. It also works wonderfully on those boards where poorly experienced designers didn't follow the layout rules making the holes so small that it is nearly a press fit to get the lead to pass through.
Yes, it is somewhat large but the advantage of not having trailing cables or hoses certainly offsets any objections to the size.
I also recommend picking up a few various size tips for it.
Greg --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
There's a trick if you can do it, for holes connected to ground planes (also works for those not).
You need two irons, one with a very fine tip, and one that is a conventional vacuum desolderer.
put the iron with the fine tip on one side of the board, poking the iron tip through the hole.? (it does take a fine tip)
Put the desoldering tip over the iron tip from the other side of the board, and desolder.
the combined heat keeps the solder molten, heats the whole joint, and cleans out the hole even on ground planes (works on 4 layer boards....)
I used Metcal equipment.
Harvey
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/24/2025 9:57 PM, Greg Muir via groups.io wrote: Same success as Dave previously mentioned.
I exclusively use the FR301 on every job for unsoldering components, etc. It successfully removes all solder from thru holes allowing leaded parts to be removed easily. It also works wonderfully on those boards where poorly experienced designers didn't follow the layout rules making the holes so small that it is nearly a press fit to get the lead to pass through.
Yes, it is somewhat large but the advantage of not having trailing cables or hoses certainly offsets any objections to the size.
I also recommend picking up a few various size tips for it.
Greg
On Monday, February 24, 2025 at 01:53:05 PM MST, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] Digest #5704
开云体育 </>
This is a digest for HP/Agilent/Keysight test equipment. </g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/topics>. View all your groups.io groups, and edit your subscriptions, here <>.
Do not reply to this email. To reply to a message, click the Reply link under the message.
Topics in this digest:
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1. Re: 8753C VNA option upgrade (2) <#150407>
2. Re: HP54502A Oscilloscope fail A/D test and cal (2) <#150408>
3. CRT unit for 8593A compatible <#150411>
4. Re: Accurately measuring 1000pF and 100pF capacitors, to calibrate 4276A? (2) <#150412>
5. E5052A Power On Test (3.3V Bus Supply) (4) <#150414>
6. HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request <#150415>
messages:
.
1a.
*Re: 8753C VNA option upgrade*
From: N.keyser@... <mailto:N.keyser@...?subject=Re:%208753C%20VNA%20option%20upgrade>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 08:33:46 MST
Hi Jinxie,
Thank you very much for replying. I am currently in the process of attempting the upgrades: I did receive some feedback on the subject - I just need to ensure that I take the time to properly understand the procedure first.
Thanks again for considering the request
Kind regards
View/Reply Online </g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/150407> | Reply To Group <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re:%208753C%20VNA%20option%20upgrade> | Reply To Sender <mailto:N.keyser@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%208753C%20VNA%20option%20upgrade> | Mute Topic </mt/111346805/86192> | Top ^ <#topics> | New Topic </g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/post>
1b.
*Re: 8753C VNA option upgrade*
From: Caesar Valenti <mailto:caesarv@...?subject=Re:%208753C%20VNA%20option%20upgrade>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 09:44:12 MST
Jinxie,
That keyword text is obviously what I wrote to you at some point.? Anyone with an 8753/8752/871x/8720/8719/8722/8702 can write to me (with the s/n) and get the keywords they need to enable any option.? This is a service I provide for free so that no one has to run the risk of unsoldering and programming EEPROMs.
I have been doing this for almost 10 years now and get a request about once or twice per week.
CV
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2a.
*Re: HP54502A Oscilloscope fail A/D test and cal*
From: Mr Lurpak's Electronics Rescue <mailto:rt@...?subject=Re:%20HP54502A%20Oscilloscope%20fail%20A%2FD%20test%20and%20cal>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 08:34:07 MST
Forgot the Fail code is 0000 0000 0101 1110
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2b.
*Re: HP54502A Oscilloscope fail A/D test and cal*
From: Mr Lurpak's Electronics Rescue <mailto:rt@...?subject=Re:%20HP54502A%20Oscilloscope%20fail%20A%2FD%20test%20and%20cal>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 08:34:13 MST
Fail code 0000 0000 0101 1110
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3a.
*CRT unit for 8593A compatible*
From: Martin M <mailto:martin@...?subject=Re:%20CRT%20unit%20for%208593A%20compatible>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 09:44:48 MST
I have a 8593A with a display problem.
There is a spare offered, HP 2090-0514 "for 859x E"
question here: is this full compatible and useful in my 8593A?
thank you
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4a.
*Re: Accurately measuring 1000pF and 100pF capacitors, to calibrate 4276A?*
From: Richard Parrish <mailto:Richard@...?subject=Re:%20Accurately%20measuring%201000pF%20and%20100pF%20capacitors%2C%20to%20calibrate%204276A%3F>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 10:15:17 MST
If you need accurate measurements, I do have an Andeen-Hagerling 2500E which can measure C @1kHz to better than 5ppm and 8 digits resolution even at 10pF. I rarely get it calibrated but its still the best on the market.
If you decide on what you're going to use as a standard, I'd be glad to measure it for you if you send your standard to me.
Richard
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4b.
*Re: Accurately measuring 1000pF and 100pF capacitors, to calibrate 4276A?*
From: Greg Muir <mailto:big_sky_explorer@...?subject=Re:%20Accurately%20measuring%201000pF%20and%20100pF%20capacitors%2C%20to%20calibrate%204276A%3F>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 10:48:02 MST
I use a Boonton 76-3A precision decade capacitor for my calibration checks. I originally picked it up for calibration of an old Boonton 72BD meter (0.001 to 2000 pF capacitance range) but it now also serves as a good calibration check on a few HP units that I have. It has capacitance selection from 1 to 1221 pF in 1-2-3-5 x1, x10 & x100 ranges. Accuracy is 0.1% ±0.001 pF. The connections are made through special BNC(M) connectors without outer bayonet shell. But the unit can occasionally can be found in used condition with the Boonton output connector adapter to normal BNC(F) interface or you can make your own.
They sometimes come up pretty inexpensive on ePay amidst the real price gougers.
Greg
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5a.
*E5052A Power On Test (3.3V Bus Supply)*
From: jmr <mailto:jmrhzu@...?subject=Re:%20E5052A%20Power%20On%20Test%20%283.3V%20Bus%20Supply%29>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 11:17:08 MST
I wonder if anyone here has experience or access to an Agilent E5052A signal source analyser? Mine is about 20 years old and is recently showing signs of unreliability.
The main symptom is an occasional power on self test fail and it then reports issues with a 3V3 power supply voltage on the A3 DSP/ADC board where it reads low at typically 2.96V. I think a pass requires >2.96V but this may be firmware dependent. My E5052A is running the latest firmware V2.51.
I think this 3V3 supply is common across the backplane but it gets reported as an A3 test in the service menu. The 5V PSU rail also reads low at between 4.7 and 4.8V but this is still a pass (shows true for the test result)
Also, for several years now it has shown a stubborn internal spurious at 60 kHz at a very low level. This very slightly spoils any phase noise measurements even though it shows up at about -140dBc then the trace is in phase noise mode in dBc/Hz. I'm not sure what causes this internal 60 kHz term, it may be from a PSU or the display or a divided clock. It may be that the 60kHz spurious term is a feature of this analyser as it is present on all my plots dating back over 13 years. It's not caused by anything nearby to the instrument as it does it regardless of position or proximity to other equipment. Plus the other E5052A I've used in the past (in a different location) is exactly the same.
The 60kHz spurious is also present when I swap across to the baseband input even with a very clean LF signal fed to the 0-40 MHz baseband input. So this spurious must be getting in at the ADC if it affects the baseband input as well.
I've seen similar on another E5052A that also shows a lowish 3V3 voltage (but it never shows a power on test failure) and it also has the permanent 60 kHz spurious on all phase noise tests on the main RF input.
The service menu password is only three characters long and is 'kid'
If anyone has access to a healthy E5052A could they enter the service menu and do a manual Power On Test (POT) in the service menus? Then report the 5V and 3.3V results for the A3 module
Mine shows anything from 2.91V to 3.05V and I think the pass/fail threshold for the POT is somewhere around 2.96V. The other E5052A I have some access to shows 2.982V to 3.08V and never reports a POT failure.
Thanks in advance for any replies
Jeremy
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5b.
*Re: E5052A Power On Test (3.3V Bus Supply)*
From: Jim Ford <mailto:james.ford@...?subject=Re:%20E5052A%20Power%20On%20Test%20%283.3V%20Bus%20Supply%29>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 13:08:48 MST
Hi, Jeremy. ?Let me take a look around the labs here at Raytheon. ?Might be an E5052A or two that I could fire up. ?Give me a couple hours.
Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA
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5c.
*Re: E5052A Power On Test (3.3V Bus Supply)*
From: jmr <mailto:jmrhzu@...?subject=Re:%20E5052A%20Power%20On%20Test%20%283.3V%20Bus%20Supply%29>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 13:30:07 MST
Hi Jim, thanks.
I've just spent some time fishing around the outside of the chassis with a loop probe and the 60 kHz spurious is from the front of the instrument around the display. It isn't a single tone, it is spread over many kHz on the high side of 60 kHz and looks to be caused by digital traffic. It might be the display causing it. It seems to be at 59 kHz and it may be backlight related but it looks like it has some digital traffic on it.
Probing around the screen area of an E5071B VNA (I think this has the same touch screen display) shows exactly the same waveform so it is definitely screen related in some way. I'm not sure how this is getting into the baseband path but because it is also there on the main phase noise display I think it is getting in at the ADC/DSP module, possibly via a power supply rail. Hopefully a tired decoupling cap is the cause.
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5d.
*Re: E5052A Power On Test (3.3V Bus Supply)*
From: jmr <mailto:jmrhzu@...?subject=Re:%20E5052A%20Power%20On%20Test%20%283.3V%20Bus%20Supply%29>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 13:53:00 MST
Turning the backlight off makes the spurious term go away when probing :)
There is a soft menu button that turns off the backlight and pressing this makes the spurious vanish on the probe (that feeds to another spectrum analyser).
Also if I do a screen grab via Excel and GPIB (with the backlight ON) the 60kHz spurious is present on the spectrum from the baseband input. But if I grab the screen with the backlight off the baseband spectrum is clean on the grabbed screen image in Excel. A huge improvement.
I guess I can live with this when grabbing screen plots as (hopefully) I can add the 'backlight off' command to the excel routine.
So screen grabs will look much better. I'll have a look for the backlight command in the programming guide...
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6a.
*HP 8660B/86602B developed output stability problem, getting-started suggestion(s) request*
From: David Feldman <mailto:wb0gaz@...?subject=Re:%20HP%208660B%2F86602B%20developed%20output%20stability%20problem%2C%20getting-started%20suggestion%28s%29%20request>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 12:14:12 MST
My HP 8660B/86602B (owned since 1995 - I've owned it longer than it's initial life in industry, I believe) failed to produce a stable output signal when powered up a few days ago (it has worked properly over the years, although it's use is not frequent.) I wish to tackle repair (at least as a learning experience.)
When tested today at some spot CW frequencies (1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 and 100 MHz), output signal is below nominal by 200-300 kHz and is not stable (movement around carrier seen on spectrum analyzer display and listing on a receiver yields a noisy and unstable signal.) A swap-out of the 86602B RF plug-in (I have a spare) yielded no difference in behavior.
I have original operator/service manuals for the three key components (the 8660B, 86602B and 11661B frequency extension module inside the 8660B) and associated extension cables/boards (the 11672 service kit and 08660-60070 extender card set), so at least not flying totally blind.
My getting-started question is from this observation:
The 8660B manual's adjustment/test procedures don't mention whether the 11661B frequency extension module's behavior should be considered (as far as I can see, there is no mention of the 11661B in the 8660B manual at all.) It appears to be silent as to whether the 8660B should be evaluated with the 11661B installed (or not.) The 11661B manual focuses on that device and presumably assumes that the 8660B containing it is working normally.
Where (at the 8660B itself or the 11661B FEM) should I start troubleshooting?
Thanks for any suggestions (other than recycling the hardware and replacing it with a TinySA or similar)!
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Re: Thoughts on Hakko FR301
On 2/24/25 21:57, Greg Muir via groups.io wrote: Same success as Dave previously mentioned.
I exclusively use the FR301 on every job for unsoldering components, etc. It successfully removes all solder from thru holes allowing leaded parts to be removed easily. It also works wonderfully on those boards where poorly experienced designers didn't follow the layout rules making the holes so small that it is nearly a press fit to get the lead to pass through.
Yes, it is somewhat large but the advantage of not having trailing cables or hoses certainly offsets any objections to the size. That's a side effect of one of its biggest strengths: minimal vacuum hose length. The vacuum path from the tip to the pump is only a few inches, as compared to several feet for desoldering systems that house the pump in a base unit. That's a lot of feet of hose to depressurize when the pump turns on, and that hose is typically very flexible, so its walls will deform a bit during pump-down. This results in a slow ramp-up of vacuum, whereas the FR301 supplies a fast rise-time "jolt" of vacuum to the joint. This, in my opinion, is one of the reasons it's so effective. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Keith Monahan
Frank Mashockie
Dave McGuire
Sergey Kubushyn