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Re: HP 8566B issue above 18.5GHz ?

 

I am going back to the manual as there is something weird at 18.6GHz.?
This a CW signal at the frequency on my 8566B

18_6GHz.jpg

Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

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hi Marco,
with the help of Yves, (and of the nice TinySA Ultra)?I recently got my 8595E up and running again,?after it?had been sitting idle for a years,?waiting to replace the YTO and the Switched Yttrium Tuned Filter at the signal input
Now I noticed that by varying the REF LEVEL spikes appear exactly like in your case (see your post below); the same ones disappear if I exclude the corrections
Did you then solve the problem?
Adri
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----- Messaggio originale -----
Da: jansen.marco90 via groups.io <jansen.marco90@...>
Rispondi a: <[email protected]>
Inviato: 26/11/2024 21:23:37
Oggetto: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130
Yves,?
?
I finally had some time to solder and to the measurements, sorry for the hold up.
Below are the results
?
Next I checked all the lines to see if they would ever change by changing the ref level and log/lin setting. It looks like we are onto something there.
? low high
A1 0,003 5,15
A2 0,003 5,15
A3 0,003 5,15
A4 0,003 5,15
A5 0,003 0,004
G1 0,004 5,15
G2 0,004 5,15
G3 0,004 5,15
? low high
G4 14,238 -5,5
G5 14,238 -5,755
G6 14,238 -3,075
?
A5 seems broken, G6 looks somewhat suspicious. The level being about 15dB off also fits the A5 16dB attenuator not working. I'll take out the A7 Analog board to directly solder a wire to U111 pins 8 and 9 to see if the output of the 74HC374 has failed or that the IOB12 is faulty.?
Perhaps the function of IOB12 is identifiable because IOB12 also switches several other signals like A7 U201 Pins 2 and 3 (10dB Section in or out), A7 U11 pin 19 (ATP1), d4 of A7 U104 (Bw control Dac), A7 U107 pin 9 (IFG5). Since IFG5 seems to work I suspect IOB12 must be working.?
?
Then some other strange behavior caught my eye. Ofcourse we can expect some additional noise since both the LogAmp and the Amp control have quite some gain, they mis the top of the enclosure and they have several antennas running off the board to measure the levels, but a big difference was observed in noisefloor between two ref levels.?
Note the 2 plots below. The only difference is Ref level -9 and -10. The -9dB ref has upward spikes jumping around, the -10dB has downward spikes but a ~15dB higher noisefloor.
I guess this might have to do with the 16dB attenuator not kicking in.
?
Are G4/G5/G6 at the same levels on your analyzer??
?
Marco
?
Re: HP 8566B issue above 18.5GHz ?

 

Yes, it could need adjustment for band level and also the preselector.? Ed
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

Yves,
?
I took off all the additional test wires and build the analyzer back into its enclosure. (For now I just left the Fast ADC option out to not introduce any potential new issues_ Next let it run for > 1 hr and did a full selfcal.
Most of it looks good I think, one new issue seems to have popped up though. With span settings between 300MHz and 10MHz I get a flashing "FREQ UNCAL"? on the display. Googled a bit, could this be the flatcable to the YTO? The analog board and RF section have been moved around quite a bit so this could ofcourse have caused a bad connection.?
?
Apart from that I measured the CAL signal in both Log and Lin mode in all attenuator settings:
LOG ? ? ? LIN ? ?
Att 300MHz? 1500MHz ? Att 300MHz? 1500MHz
0 -20,02 -34,3 ? 0 -20,03 -34,26
10 -20,02 -34,15 ? 10 -20,05 -34,07
20 -19,95 -34,55 ? 20 -20,01 -34,65
30 -19,98 -33 ? 30 -20,04 -34
40 -19,98 -33,94 ? 40 -20 -32,5
50 -20,02 -32,7 ? 50 -19,97 -32,6
60 -20 -32 ? 60 -20 -31
Looked OK to me, only 50 and 60dB att with the 1500MHz signal are noisy.
?
Measured the Cal signal with all the RBW's
RBW 300MHz
5M -19,99
3M -19,97
1M -20,01
300k -20,02
100k -20,03
30k -20,01
10k -19,99
3k -20,04
1k -20,16
300 -19,97
100 -20,06
30 -20,09
?
And measured some signals generated by the TinySA, considering the expected accuracy of the TinySA, there is not too much that can be said but at least they seem to agree.
?
I tested one frequency with the TinySA, set it to 999.8MHz, and checked the peak mkr freq at different spans. Mostly 15MHz seemed to showcase the issue with the mkr jumping around between 2 frequencies.?
I think it would be best to focus on the Freq Uncal error a bit now before adding the FADC option and seeing if I can do some kind of gain correction. Do you have any other ideas than the YTO cable??
?
Also I want to check the internal gains with the different ref levels but trying to get that plotted in one image for now.?
?
Marco
Re: HP 8566B issue above 18.5GHz ?

 

Ed, I don¡¯t think that¡¯s right. The band does switch in at 18.6 GHz but the 8566 compensated for the loss in power and what you see is a step up in the noise floor, not a step down in the power level.

Wojciech, you probably need to perform adjustments related to band 4 in the tests and adjustments manual.

Note that the 8340/1 has a similar architecture to the 8566 and so it¡¯s possible those units are exhibiting the issue you believe is coming from the 8566. But, as you point out, it¡¯s less likely two units have the same fault than 1.

Matt

On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 11:48 AM ed breya via <eb=[email protected]> wrote:
That's just where the next harmonic mixing band switches in. Check in the manual to see how it's supposed to work.? Ed
Re: HP 8566B issue above 18.5GHz ?

 

That's just where the next harmonic mixing band switches in. Check in the manual to see how it's supposed to work.? Ed
HP 8566B issue above 18.5GHz ?

 

Dear Colleagues
I wanted to ask you what is the reason that when I sweep by 8340B or 8341B and observe the flatness of the power by 8566B, from about 18.5GHz I see about 10dB of abrupt power drop? Is this some issue of the 8566B analyzer? I observe the same effect for both the 8340B and 8341B generators, so I assume that it is something related to the 8566B analyzer...
Best regards, Wojciech

?
Re: VNA Resonance Methodology

 

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Finally I got some time to perform measurements. I used an E5061A VNA (a nanovna can be used as direct replacement, this is nothing special). I started calibrating my port 1 on SMA male. I build a simple coil over a plastic form and I used a 160pF mica plate capacitor in series. I got a series resonance frequency of fs= 2.718 MHz and ?a series resonance due pasitic capacitance (Cp) of fp=15.757 Mhz. I used segmented sweep to have more frequency resolution at fs.?

If I short the coil and I measure the capacitance ?this is ?@fs C= 162.14 pF performing some calculations* Cp = 4.97 pF ?, then we can compute L = 20.518 microH at fs the series resistance was Rs= 2.314 ohm and this is Q= 151. There are more information on attached pictures.?
If we not consider the Cp(=0) ¡­ the results are : L= 21.147 microH Q= 156.?

*The series capacitance is close to the ratio of fp and fs squared minus one times Cp : C= ((fp/fs)^2 -1) Cp ?


Ing. Patricio A. Greco
Laboratorio de Calibraci¨®n ISO 17025?AREA: RF/MW?
Gral. Mart¨ªn Rodr¨ªguez 2159
San Miguel (1663)
Buenos Aires
T: +5411-4455-2557
F: +5411-4032-0072




On 1 Dec 2024, at 18:46, Jinxie via <paul666@...> wrote:

I'll just post some shots to answer the requests earlier up the thread.
This first one is the set-up I'm using. I have had to resort to some longish leads to connect the items together, but this is only 1.45Mhz so practically DC and shouldn't materially affect the results.
?
The Smith Chart plot for this set-up:
? (does that look right?)
?
The linear plot for the set-up shows the poor Q and why I couldn't get a dip with my meter earlier. I did try the log plot out of interest, but it was so flat you really couldn't see the resonant area at all:
?
I'll try the shunt arrangement in due course, but? I won't have access to the analyzer again for another 2 weeks.
?
?
?
?

IMG_5096.jpeg
IMAGE01.BMP
IMAGE02.BMP

HP 6632B PSU showing CV and CC at the same time

 

Hi!
?
I recently repaired a 663120A where the crow-bar just kicked in and did it's job. The trouble was to find the right soldered in mini-fuse that was half way hidden under the interface board.
?
So I hoped for an easy fix on my 6632B too but no. I tried to follow the failure diagrams in the service manual and just got the info to replace the interface board. But the signals on the interface to that board do show a lot of good and only a few out of range values. Especially the signals that should make the display show CV and CC are active, so the interface board is right.
?
The fault itself is, that I can enable the output of the unit as long as I program 0V. As soon as I try to program more then about 0.7V the system shows CV + CC at the same time and no output voltage.
?
The measured voltage on the VFD is close to my multimeter, so the ADC seems to work.
?
One thing I recognized is, that the input bus voltages are all high. But I double-checked that the transformer ist configured for 230V. But the (+) rail has 45V compared to the service manual saying it should have 39V. The (-) 9V rail has -12V. Is there anything known about a faulty series of transformers or a bug in the wiring diagram?
?
73 de Ulrich
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Re: Tantalum Capacitors

 

I think Adrian is doing a good job in going slowly through the analysis. Sometimes you get the wrong way and that happens to all of us. Making interesting episodes is one thing, but having to repair something in time as the customer is waiting outside is another one.
?
Like Usagi and others channels, as an old guy sitting in front of the screen, there are these moments where you scream at them, telling "There is the fault right in front of you!" but the guy on the screen is going the whole wrong way. But that is part of the fun.
?
Back to the capacitors I have successfully replaced Tantalum types by Aluminum Polymer. These combine the benefit of being dry and having a low ESR. Even dry electrolyte sounds great and you want to replace all caps by this type, there are problems. You can replace Tantalum bei Al-Poly as the PSU is prepared for low ESR caps or there are small resistors in front of them (sometimes there are coils in front that filter but also add enough serial resistance)?
?
Replacing Al-Electrolyte with Al-Poly will result in a big punch on the PSU on power-on but not as hard as if you replace low value AL-Electrolyte by MLCC ceramics. So the PSU needs to be prepared for that. And there is no way to replace Al-Electrolyte with AL-Poly in signal related places except you adapt surrounding inductance or resistance values.
?
In any smaller test equipment like power-meters and such, especially when the supply is linear regulated, Al-Poly is good. But if you replace all more than 300 Al-Electrolytes by Al-Poly in a Stabilock 4031, you might trigger overload on power on of the PSU.?
But again, if you replace the 10uF caps on the 4031 CPU and secondary CPU board by 1uF Al-Poly or MLCC, that should work absolutely fine, as the series resistance is much lower and the energy required is transferred much faster. But the punch on the PSU is shorter and lower because of the reduced capacity. The Al-Poly will not go up in flames like to original ones and not peeing on the board like wet caps and eating the traces.
?
And then again, replacing all SMD electrolytes in the small Stabilock 4015 by Al-Poly will cost over 170€ and may introduce different problems. Using Automotive or Aerospace certified Al-Electrolytes from the best brands you can get, will cost less then 80€ and make the unit work again for the next 40 years. And there is still hope, that modern Al-Electrolytes do not leak and eat your traces from the PCB, as the capacitors from the 2000'ds do when the capacitor plague was a thing.?
?
73 de Ulrich
DC3AX / AG1U / OE3UPR
?
Re: Shielded probe cables?

 

We are talking about something like the
HP/Agilent 54620-61601 Logic Analyzer Probe Cable, right?
Re: Refurbished E4407B 26.5GHz spectrum analyzer for sale with nice options price 2500US/2300Euro

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

New price unit is still availalable (Black friday sale Loool)

?Hello here are your ultimate christmas gift.
?
I have for sale a nice Agilent E4407B spectrum analyzer for sale. It has been repaired and works perfectly.

Range 9KHz to 26.5GHz?

It has a modern design and utilize same menu structure as the expensive PSA series just more compact.
Fast measurements.
It measures up to specs all up to 26.5Ghz.

Nice options installed
1DR : Narrow band resolution bandwidth
AYZ : External mixer option interface hardware
1DS: 3GHz Preamplifier option?
B72: Memory expansion
1D5: High stability Frequency reference

The Preamp option makes the dynamic range down to -165dBm@1hz bw in the range 9khz to 3Ghz.?
Above 3GHz yig filter makes the spectrum clean.?

Can be shipped for 50Euro in europe or 75US for overseas.?


Unit is used and is in good condition with some marks here and there .
Look closely on the pics for actual condition


ask any questions

Price 2500us/2300euro plus shipping

73 Peter OZ1LPR
Re: HP141T with multiple sections

 

Many thanks David and Gary, so I guess best not take any risk, I'm going to power up my HP141T with one full set of section: 8552B and 8553B plus the great active probe 1121A which I've forgot to mention. Let's hope its stoarge for more than 2 years will not affect any PSU, electrolytic power cap and so.
?
In the mean time, I was looking in our forum for HP141T key words then found this very interesting old comment on LCD retrofit kit
?
Looked briefly to what was done on the ? it is suddenly mind blowing how the 70's HP141T has been colorized, other display possibilities, this is awesome.
?
Suppose I remove the CRT unit and electronics from my HP141T to replace with a LCD kit, do you know how much weight in kg would be saved and power consumption gained ?
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I saw on the Rohde&Schwarz forum someone who used the same LCD-FPGA demo board kit to replace a CRT unit, not sure where I saw this but it is the same situation with TD500/700 oscilloscope and Advantest R3261/R3361/R365/R3365/R3271/R3371, the cost or impossible to find old CRT => the challenge to LCD retrofit which permits to colorize, add new function if proper hacking of the legacy board.
?
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Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

OK, now I understand, so anyway the cheapest option would be probably buy dedicated display for 8530A with already loaded software for 8530A.
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

08530-80004 is part you need


?
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

Key is just programmable DIP IC (PAL20L8B-2CNS), inserted in empty socket on small board behind floppy.
But there is no file for programmer
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

Hi Dimitrij,
Oh, I see, so it won't be easy to convert "normal" 8510C display to 8530A display because display for 8530A has additional board with PAL circuit, am I right? So probably only solution is to buy dual identity display (OPT 011) or display specified only for 8530A with already loaded software, do I understand correctly?
Best regards, Wojciech
?
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

Read this topic:
/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/topic/101428782
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

8530A firmware already there:
/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/HP%20&%20Agilent%20Firmware%20&%20Programs/HP%208530%20firm%20A0166%20.exe

But you need appropriate PAL key 08530-80004 to run it
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

Hi Ed,
I have never done this before but of course I can try to save it. Is 1.44MB floppy disk OK for that?
BTW I'm also looking for software for 8530A microwave receiver (for antenna measurements) which I could load to normal display from 8510C. Do you maybe know if I could find it somewhere?
Best regards, Wojciech
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