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Re: 8350A + 83525A mechanical issues

 

Hi Bumbo!
Where are you located?
J.Kruth

In a message dated 12/3/2024 4:25:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, bumbo.chinelo@... writes:
?
Thanks for the feedback
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Last night I tried the rocker fix. It almost worked, but when I went to put the final turns on the screws the plastic cracked thus I went to the next task, i.e. kicking myself in the ass. The only reliable solution is making a new rocker; will try with a piece of aged walnut wood and this weekend go to a junk yard for a small aluminium block.? Not exactly my piece of cake
?
The N connector seems to be screwed on the frame and it broke the mounting. Once I'm done with the rocker I'll tackle that and might come back for more suggestion
?
The batteries are/were a real bomb. In my 8350 they leaked so much and corroded some tracks This is my first repair of this kind but it has more mechanical tasks than electronic ones
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Cheers
?
?
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Re: HP141T with multiple sections

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello,

In France you can place a ad on :



There is one actually for sale - pick-up only - for 400 Euros ( HP141T Mainframe + 8552B , 8553B and 8555A )

Also on :



Best regards
eric

Le 03/12/2024 10:42, tantratron a ¨¦crit?:

Hello, I'm the owner of a HP141T with multiple sections since 2010.
?
From that time, in order to be quick on different projects and testing, I progressively purchased three HP8552B? sections (IF section).?
?
That way, i'd assemble respectively together to ease quick plug and play inside the HP141T chassis:
  • section 8556A (0-30 KHz / 0-300 KHz) with first 8552B
  • section 8553B (0-11 MHz / 0-110 MHz) with second 8552B
  • section 8554B (0-13000 MHz) with third 8552B
I do have one tracking generator 8444A (0.5 - 1300 MHz).
?
During early 2022, I had specific EMC/EMI contract so I've decide to rather go after more recent sprectrum analyzer, Advantest R3361 but kept the HP141T with all its section. At that time, everything was working fine but it has been kept since then in my cellar. For different reasons, I need to make room in my house so do not intend to keep the HP141T suite along some other equipment (i.e. tektronix).
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My first question: since the HP141T was not run for more than 2 years, is it possible to run the HP141T alone with no section added.
?
My second question: what do you suggest on how to resell these having in mind thet are in mint condition and I'm living in France ?
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Unless you consider it is really not worth (time, money, logistics) to try resell then only choice would be junkyard.
?
Thank you in advance for any wisdom technical advices and suggestions.
?
Albert
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Re: HP141T with multiple sections

 

If you need a hand to deliver it to the junk yard ........ /s/s
Re: HP141T with multiple sections

 

Hello Albert,
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before the junkyard I'd put it on Ebay, 1 Euro starting price, pickup only.
For sure there will be some bids!
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a+
Martin
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HP141T with multiple sections

 

Hello, I'm the owner of a HP141T with multiple sections since 2010.
?
From that time, in order to be quick on different projects and testing, I progressively purchased three HP8552B? sections (IF section).?
?
That way, i'd assemble respectively together to ease quick plug and play inside the HP141T chassis:
  • section 8556A (0-30 KHz / 0-300 KHz) with first 8552B
  • section 8553B (0-11 MHz / 0-110 MHz) with second 8552B
  • section 8554B (0-13000 MHz) with third 8552B
I do have one tracking generator 8444A (0.5 - 1300 MHz).
?
During early 2022, I had specific EMC/EMI contract so I've decide to rather go after more recent sprectrum analyzer, Advantest R3361 but kept the HP141T with all its section. At that time, everything was working fine but it has been kept since then in my cellar. For different reasons, I need to make room in my house so do not intend to keep the HP141T suite along some other equipment (i.e. tektronix).
?
My first question: since the HP141T was not run for more than 2 years, is it possible to run the HP141T alone with no section added.
?
My second question: what do you suggest on how to resell these having in mind thet are in mint condition and I'm living in France ?
?
Unless you consider it is really not worth (time, money, logistics) to try resell then only choice would be junkyard.
?
Thank you in advance for any wisdom technical advices and suggestions.
?
Albert
?
Re: 8350A + 83525A mechanical issues

 

Thanks for the feedback
?
Last night I tried the rocker fix. It almost worked, but when I went to put the final turns on the screws the plastic cracked thus I went to the next task, i.e. kicking myself in the ass. The only reliable solution is making a new rocker; will try with a piece of aged walnut wood and this weekend go to a junk yard for a small aluminium block.? Not exactly my piece of cake
?
The N connector seems to be screwed on the frame and it broke the mounting. Once I'm done with the rocker I'll tackle that and might come back for more suggestion
?
The batteries are/were a real bomb. In my 8350 they leaked so much and corroded some tracks This is my first repair of this kind but it has more mechanical tasks than electronic ones
?
Cheers
?
?
?
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Thanks for the PDF, very interesting reading.

Do you know what is the difference between the NFA and the ESA? I
thought the NFA is just an ESA with the Option 219 card installed and
the 2 ports routed to the front panel.

I searched on Google images to see some pictures with the NFA hardware
shown on the display and I saw they have different boards (part numbers)
installed compared to ESA. I guess it is not just the E4401-60123 board
installed.

I couldn't find any pictures with the NFA hardware to see how it looks
inside.

On 02/12/2024 22:21, jmr via groups.io wrote:
The E444xA does have the 110 option for a 50 GHz preamp but the noise
figure (and presumably also the input VSWR) of the preamp limits the
performance across the upper parts of the frequency range.
The older version of the 5989-5065EN noise figure selection document can
be found here:
5989-8056EN-05-5-10.indd <
an/5989-8056EN.pdf>
This includes graphs for the ESA and the 8970B.
I think the reason the ESA and 8970B aren't listed in the later version
of the above document is that they are now classed as obsolete. So is
the E444xA analyser.
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Hi,
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there is a similar graph of uncertainties, but with VERY different axis scales, in 5989-8056EN dated May 12 2008. It also shows that the NF option for the ESA analyzers to be less than wonderful.??
?
https://assets.testequity.com/te1/Documents/pdf/noise_figure_selection.pdf
?
?
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

Reasonably sure you will not have a problem - please do report the result.
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Cheers!
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Bruce
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Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

The E444xA does have the 110 option for a 50 GHz preamp but the noise figure (and presumably also the input VSWR) of the preamp limits the performance across the upper parts of the frequency range.?
?
The older version of the 5989-5065EN noise figure selection document can be found here:
?
?
This includes graphs for the ESA and the 8970B.
?
I think the reason the ESA and 8970B aren't listed in the later version of the above document is that they are now classed as obsolete. So is the E444xA analyser.
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

In my opinion, the only HPAK spectrum/signal analyser that can be expected to work (very) well with the noise figure option and a 5dB ENR HP 346A noise source is the classic E444xA from about 20 years ago.
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The ESA analysers like the E4407B don't have a fully digital IF and the DANL with the preamp is a few dB worse than the E444xA. This all adds to the uncertainty. I definitely don't recommend using the ESA analysers for noise figure stuff unless you opt for the 346B noise source with its 15dB ENR and you don't expect to ever measure any amplifiers with very low noise figures.
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The more modern PXA, MXA and EXA analysers have a very good digital IF but the RF converter ahead of the digital IF isn't in the same class as the converter in the old E444xA analysers. The DANL of the PXA/MXA/EXA is quite a bit worse and the noise floor rises quite a bit by 3GHz or so. So these analysers are disappointing too. They are better than the ESA in this respect but still not close to the performance of the E444xA when it comes to noise figure measurements.
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The E444xA is the only one that can compete with the dedicated noise figure analysers. In some aspects of its performance it is slightly superior to the dedicated analysers and in others it slightly loses out. Either way, there is very little difference between them although the E444xA preamp only covers up to 3 GHz. So this limits the frequency range that it can deliver good noise figure measurements.
?
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Re: VNA Resonance Methodology

 

For comparison, here's my Q-measurement of a 6.2?H air coil? at?? 8.28MHz

Measured with the HP4342A?? Q=221???? VNWA shunt-through measurement see graph.
Re: HP 1725A no horizontal deflection

 

I checked all power rails again, no problem.
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The I worked backwards from the deflection plate drivers (A13), injected some signal, and got deflection. Worked back to Q23/S24 on A8, and get deflection. From there, I have difficulties to understand the schematics. Where does the signal come from?
HP 1725A no horizontal deflection

 

Hi all, I have a HP 1725A 'scope here, with no horizontal deflection.
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Vertikal deflection is working fine, I get a vertical line if I feed it with a sinus, or two dots when i feed it a square wave.
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Horizontal position can be changes from left side out of screen to about 2cm from left. I tried X-Y-mode, and even then there is no horizontal deflection.
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Before investigationg it further, I would like to ask if there is a common failure mode in these scopes? Any hints where to start?
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Thanks, Peter
Re: Shielded probe cables?

 

It is the 5032, , I was typing from memory and the manufacturer name probably stuck because it is the software I see the most. It has a nice dev kit and I have written decodes for the HP1000 A series memory for a project.
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You can set custom levels to using cannibalised HP probes might be a good idea. Let me see what I can find.
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Charles,


Many thanks for this graph. It is very interesting as it also mentions the good old (and still very useful) HP8970B NFA.

Googling the doc number in your message comes up with the doc: "Minimize Noise Figure Uncertainties", apparently a newer version. Same graph but no HP8970B here. The minimum uncertainty is quite a bit higher than what I normally see: +/- 0.1 dB. Interesting stuff: noise figure measurement.

Best 73 de

Harke PA0HRK


On 02/12/2024 01:56, Charles Edmonds via groups.io wrote:

Hi Olaf,
?
before you pursue this option further you might like to read some of the manufacturer's documentation on that option. An early version of 5989-8056EN included the below plot which includes the ESA with Option 219 to other systems. Basically it shows that Option 219 in the ESA spectrum analysers has such high uncertainties that it is rather useless when measuring modern equipment. I also note, from only a very quick browse, that the current version of 5989-8056EN does not include this chart and in fact makes no mention of Option 219 for the ESA spectrum analysers.??
?
?
?
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
?
?
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Hello Charles,

Can you please share the 5989-8056EN document you have? I cannot find
it. I would like to read it since I was also looking for the Option 219
card to add it to my ESA.

73,
Razvan

On 02/12/2024 01:56, Charles Edmonds via groups.io wrote:
Hi Olaf,
before you pursue this option further you might like to read some of the
manufacturer's documentation on that option. An early version of
5989-8056EN included the below plot which includes the ESA with Option
219 to other systems. Basically it shows that Option 219 in the ESA
spectrum analysers has such high uncertainties that it is rather useless
when measuring modern equipment. I also note, from only a very quick
browse, that the current version of 5989-8056EN does not include this
chart and in fact makes no mention of Option 219 for the ESA spectrum
analysers.
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the valuable additional information. I'm arranging 8510C with display units with LCD and the latest firmware 8.XX so I wanted to know if my 8341B will work. But I will try then without any firmware upgardes.
Thanks,
Wojciech
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Dear Charles, thanks for this valuable feedback.?

I was not aware of this at all, and yes I agree this makes the option almost useless.
I was tempted because of the wide frequency range. Hhwever I now may have to go the classic way and use a external rf-source and mixer?
with my NFA not going that high.?

thanks again, best regards, Olaf, DL8EBL
?
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Hi Olaf,
?
before you pursue this option further you might like to read some of the manufacturer's documentation on that option. An early version of 5989-8056EN included the below plot which includes the ESA with Option 219 to other systems. Basically it shows that Option 219 in the ESA spectrum analysers has such high uncertainties that it is rather useless when measuring modern equipment. I also note, from only a very quick browse, that the current version of 5989-8056EN does not include this chart and in fact makes no mention of Option 219 for the ESA spectrum analysers.??
?
?
?
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
?
?
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