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Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Charles,


Many thanks for this graph. It is very interesting as it also mentions the good old (and still very useful) HP8970B NFA.

Googling the doc number in your message comes up with the doc: "Minimize Noise Figure Uncertainties", apparently a newer version. Same graph but no HP8970B here. The minimum uncertainty is quite a bit higher than what I normally see: +/- 0.1 dB. Interesting stuff: noise figure measurement.

Best 73 de

Harke PA0HRK


On 02/12/2024 01:56, Charles Edmonds via groups.io wrote:

Hi Olaf,
?
before you pursue this option further you might like to read some of the manufacturer's documentation on that option. An early version of 5989-8056EN included the below plot which includes the ESA with Option 219 to other systems. Basically it shows that Option 219 in the ESA spectrum analysers has such high uncertainties that it is rather useless when measuring modern equipment. I also note, from only a very quick browse, that the current version of 5989-8056EN does not include this chart and in fact makes no mention of Option 219 for the ESA spectrum analysers.??
?
?
?
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
?
?
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Hello Charles,

Can you please share the 5989-8056EN document you have? I cannot find
it. I would like to read it since I was also looking for the Option 219
card to add it to my ESA.

73,
Razvan

On 02/12/2024 01:56, Charles Edmonds via groups.io wrote:
Hi Olaf,
before you pursue this option further you might like to read some of the
manufacturer's documentation on that option. An early version of
5989-8056EN included the below plot which includes the ESA with Option
219 to other systems. Basically it shows that Option 219 in the ESA
spectrum analysers has such high uncertainties that it is rather useless
when measuring modern equipment. I also note, from only a very quick
browse, that the current version of 5989-8056EN does not include this
chart and in fact makes no mention of Option 219 for the ESA spectrum
analysers.
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the valuable additional information. I'm arranging 8510C with display units with LCD and the latest firmware 8.XX so I wanted to know if my 8341B will work. But I will try then without any firmware upgardes.
Thanks,
Wojciech
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Dear Charles, thanks for this valuable feedback.?

I was not aware of this at all, and yes I agree this makes the option almost useless.
I was tempted because of the wide frequency range. Hhwever I now may have to go the classic way and use a external rf-source and mixer?
with my NFA not going that high.?

thanks again, best regards, Olaf, DL8EBL
?
Re: Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Hi Olaf,
?
before you pursue this option further you might like to read some of the manufacturer's documentation on that option. An early version of 5989-8056EN included the below plot which includes the ESA with Option 219 to other systems. Basically it shows that Option 219 in the ESA spectrum analysers has such high uncertainties that it is rather useless when measuring modern equipment. I also note, from only a very quick browse, that the current version of 5989-8056EN does not include this chart and in fact makes no mention of Option 219 for the ESA spectrum analysers.??
?
?
?
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
?
?
3577 VNA Active Reflectometer Bridge...

 

Greetings.
?
I have uploaded the Active Reflectometer Bridge design for the 3577 VNA
previously mentioned. The files resides in the file area ...\helpful tools...
?
If anyone wants other format of the Gerber/Drill data, (metric/inch/precision)
please let me know.
?
Ulf Kylenfall
SM6GXV
?
Re: 8350A + 83525A mechanical issues

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Regards the switch I would look at cutting the broken part off the rocker off

put a slot into the plastic where the part of plastic was that had the hole make a metal replacement ?and hold the new metal part? in with small nut and bolts

?

Re the N? connecter i assume the N connecter has punched a hole through the aluminium front

The front panel on the plug in is easy removed soldering iron for the BNC connecter and disconnect the SMA from the MN connecter get 2 steal washers one either side of the broken front panel and reassemble

The RF output coax might be a bit short by the thickness of the washer but hopefully a bit of carful rearrangement of the output coax and all should be good?

?

PS if you have the memory batteries still in the unit strongly recommend you remove them or replace them as if they go bad they will kill the 8350 and possibly the plug in from the gases the old battery give off ?the batteries are only there to memorise the last set up manly used for repeated testing on test rig ?

All my 8? units have the batteries removed

?

Paul South coast UK

?

?

?

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of bumbo.chinelo via groups.io
Sent: 01 December 2024 17:17
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350A + 83525A mechanical issues

?

Hello

In the last months I've been playing with a HP 8350A + 83525A that probably had a uncontrolled impact with something. After replacing a 7426 on CPU board and rebuilding most of the B.West springs with stuff found on taobao, I'm left with mechanical issues. ?Given my noob level I would really appreciate feedback and suggestions from experts.

?

The first issue is the plastic lever that operates the power switch (image 1). It broke where the metal pin enters. Glue doesn't seem to be an answer; a 3D printer would probably be the best solution but given the cost I'll just continue plug/unplug the cable.

?

Second issue is probably even more complicated. The N connector of the plug in hit something hard and broke the metal fitting inside (image 2). Sorry for the lousy image but haven't decided to take it apart yet given my experience with the reset button of my 5328A (story for another time). This is part of the plug in frame so replacing it means a new plugin very €€€€. Ideas?

?

Last question is about adjustments. The last adjustment in the manual is Marker DAC. Although setting the trigger level is quite tricky (seems easier with a scope) the reading I have is indeed 500 and in some moments 400 however full rotations of A4R28 make no differences. This does not sound very good, but more than adequate for hobbyist use

?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions for and recommendations

?

cheers

?
Re: VNA Resonance Methodology

 

I'll just post some shots to answer the requests earlier up the thread.
This first one is the set-up I'm using. I have had to resort to some longish leads to connect the items together, but this is only 1.45Mhz so practically DC and shouldn't materially affect the results.
?
The Smith Chart plot for this set-up:
? (does that look right?)
?
The linear plot for the set-up shows the poor Q and why I couldn't get a dip with my meter earlier. I did try the log plot out of interest, but it was so flat you really couldn't see the resonant area at all:
?
I'll try the shunt arrangement in due course, but? I won't have access to the analyzer again for another 2 weeks.
?
?
?
?
Looking for Noise Source Driver Assembly E4401-60123 for E4407B Spectrum Analyzer

 

Dear All,?
I like to extend my Analyzer with the noise measurement option.
Does somebody want to sell a E4401-60123 Board + Cables ?
If yes please drop me a reply or send a pm.?

thanks for reading and best regards , Olaf Kramer
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Marco,

?

This is good news!

?

Yves

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de jansen.marco90 via groups.io
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 1 d¨¦cembre 2024 14:17
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

?

Yves,

?

Some good news, the spectrum analyzer is now passing self cal and conf test with a 300MHz marker at -20dBm at both Log and Lin setting.

?

I was still poking around a bit, found some more (maybe the same )discrepancies between a Factory default cal and Corr Off after a selfcal.?

?

Ended up feeling I could aswell start tweaking the Log amp with the values known from your analyzer. So changed the -8VT with R10 to -7.6V as on yours.

Next I wanted to change the TP1 with R23, because your log mode voltage was about -5 and mine -0.5. Ended up seeing the Log amplitude dropping but the voltage not lowering very fast. Ended up using this adjustment to lower the Log amplitude to the same level as the Lin Amplitude, measuring the Cal signal. Now the voltage level is about -2.5V.

Anyway, after this change, the analyzer can now do a full self cal and ends up with the correct level.?

Later this week i'll see if I can do some additional measurements with it to see if I can find any other faults.?

?

Marco
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

Yves,
?
Some good news, the spectrum analyzer is now passing self cal and conf test with a 300MHz marker at -20dBm at both Log and Lin setting.
?
I was still poking around a bit, found some more (maybe the same )discrepancies between a Factory default cal and Corr Off after a selfcal.?
?
Ended up feeling I could aswell start tweaking the Log amp with the values known from your analyzer. So changed the -8VT with R10 to -7.6V as on yours.
Next I wanted to change the TP1 with R23, because your log mode voltage was about -5 and mine -0.5. Ended up seeing the Log amplitude dropping but the voltage not lowering very fast. Ended up using this adjustment to lower the Log amplitude to the same level as the Lin Amplitude, measuring the Cal signal. Now the voltage level is about -2.5V.
Anyway, after this change, the analyzer can now do a full self cal and ends up with the correct level.?
Later this week i'll see if I can do some additional measurements with it to see if I can find any other faults.?
?
Marco
File Notifications #file-notice

Group Notification
 

Scott Vance <scott_l_vance@...> added folder /HP & Agilent Firmware & Programs/HP 8753D Firmware/614

Description:
HP8753D most recent firmware for older machines (6.14).

The following items have been added to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

By: Scott Vance <scott_l_vance@...>

Description:
6.14 firmware for HP8753D (latest version for older machines).
Re: HP 8341B 1992 firmware version

 

I use an 8340A with SW rev 23 May 1985 with an 8510C with SW rev 7.16 - hope this data is helpful,? I have also used other 8340Bs with various SW revisions and never had any compatibility problems.
Re: mailing lists, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Trying to go through alignment procedure for HP412A that I rebuilt, having trouble with first step lol

 

On Sun, Dec 1, 2024 at 1:13?PM Dave McGuire via groups.io
<mcguire@...> wrote:

On 12/1/24 12:24, Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd wrote:
Groups.io is a commercial vendor of mailing list services. They
provide a web interface for list administrators to manage their lists,
as well as for people to view archives of past list traffic. In recent
years that functionality has been (inadvisably, IMO) extended to
include
posting messages to the mailing list from the web interface as well.


Groups.io offers FAR more functionality than a mailing list. A mailing
list doesn¡¯t offer 30 GB of file storage, a wiki, and a whole host of
other features that the group has. Not all features are enabled on this
group, as they would serve no useful purpose.

It¡¯s your personal preference whether you use the other features, but
they exist and other people do use them. I feel that they should be
encouraged to use them.
While I generally agree, we would do well to bear in mind why those
additional features exist, and remember what happened to groups.io's
predecessor, Yahoo Groups.

Anyone can serve up mailing lists. Hell, I run a dozen of them from
my company's network, no commercial BS involved. Companies like
groups.io offer additional stuff to capture users' data and create
vendor lock-in situations, in which it's very difficult to migrate away.
Then when everyone is using the file archives, the wikis, the
databases, etc etc, they start raising their prices.

This has been done by every company offering such services, and
indeed it has been done by groups.io themselves.

And when they shut down, or give users another compelling reason to
move en masse, that data can be very difficult to recover in any usable
way. Witness the Yahoo Groups disaster.

Yes, some of these additional facilities are interesting and useful.
They're designed to be. And once you start using one of them, it's easy
to start using more and more of them. Then you're stuck.

So while I agree that such facilities are useful, I think they should
be utilized with great care, backups, and a fallback plan. Corporations
typically do not have our interests in mind, and we need to remember
that. They are not charities or people working to help us with our
craft, they exist to make MO' MONEY MO' MONEY by whatever means
possible. Trust them at your peril.
All this is true and somehow also invisible to most users now.

I wonder how to make it apparent now but that's kind of an off list topic.


-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: mailing lists, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Trying to go through alignment procedure for HP412A that I rebuilt, having trouble with first step lol

 

On 12/1/24 12:24, Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd wrote:
? ?Groups.io is a commercial vendor of mailing list services.? They
provide a web interface for list administrators to manage their lists,
as well as for people to view archives of past list traffic.? In recent
years that functionality has been (inadvisably, IMO) extended to
include
posting messages to the mailing list from the web interface as well.
Groups.io offers FAR more functionality than a mailing list. A mailing list doesn¡¯t offer 30 GB of file storage, a wiki, and a whole host of other features that the group has. Not all features are enabled on this group, as they would serve no useful purpose.
It¡¯s your personal preference whether you use the other features, but they exist and other people do use them. I feel that they should be encouraged to use them.
While I generally agree, we would do well to bear in mind why those additional features exist, and remember what happened to groups.io's predecessor, Yahoo Groups.

Anyone can serve up mailing lists. Hell, I run a dozen of them from my company's network, no commercial BS involved. Companies like groups.io offer additional stuff to capture users' data and create vendor lock-in situations, in which it's very difficult to migrate away. Then when everyone is using the file archives, the wikis, the databases, etc etc, they start raising their prices.

This has been done by every company offering such services, and indeed it has been done by groups.io themselves.

And when they shut down, or give users another compelling reason to move en masse, that data can be very difficult to recover in any usable way. Witness the Yahoo Groups disaster.

Yes, some of these additional facilities are interesting and useful. They're designed to be. And once you start using one of them, it's easy to start using more and more of them. Then you're stuck.

So while I agree that such facilities are useful, I think they should be utilized with great care, backups, and a fallback plan. Corporations typically do not have our interests in mind, and we need to remember that. They are not charities or people working to help us with our craft, they exist to make MO' MONEY MO' MONEY by whatever means possible. Trust them at your peril.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: mailing lists, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Trying to go through alignment procedure for HP412A that I rebuilt, having trouble with first step lol

 

On Sun, 1 Dec 2024 at 02:51, Dave McGuire via <mcguire=[email protected]> wrote:
On 11/30/24 21:27, Dan via wrote:
> Okay, I really appreciate it Dave.? So what¡¯s the difference really? Do
> they kind of function the same, but each message and response puts an
> email in your email account?

? ?Yes, pretty much.? The first thing to remember is that mailing lists
have nothing at all to do with the web, web servers, web sites, or web
browsers.? It's an email address that you send an email to (by whatever
means you access your email), and then that email is re-sent
automatically to all the people subscribed to (registered to be
recipients of) the mailing list.

True.?


? ?Groups.io is a commercial vendor of mailing list services.? They
provide a web interface for list administrators to manage their lists,
as well as for people to view archives of past list traffic.? In recent
years that functionality has been (inadvisably, IMO) extended to include
posting messages to the mailing list from the web interface as well.

Groups.io offers FAR more functionality than a mailing list. A mailing list doesn¡¯t offer 30 GB of file storage, a wiki, and a whole host of other features that the group has. Not all features are enabled on this group, as they would serve no useful purpose.?

? ?Many people feel that web forums are the "new" way and mailing lists
are the "old" way, and while mailing lists are much older (dating back
to the 1970s) the reality is that both formats are decades old and it
really just boils down to personal preference.

? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

It¡¯s your personal preference whether you use the other features, but they exist and other people do use them. I feel that they should be encouraged to use them.?

Dave?
(Group owner)?
8350A + 83525A mechanical issues

 

Hello
In the last months I've been playing with a HP 8350A + 83525A that probably had a uncontrolled impact with something. After replacing a 7426 on CPU board and rebuilding most of the B.West springs with stuff found on taobao, I'm left with mechanical issues. ?Given my noob level I would really appreciate feedback and suggestions from experts.
?
The first issue is the plastic lever that operates the power switch (image 1). It broke where the metal pin enters. Glue doesn't seem to be an answer; a 3D printer would probably be the best solution but given the cost I'll just continue plug/unplug the cable.
?
Second issue is probably even more complicated. The N connector of the plug in hit something hard and broke the metal fitting inside (image 2). Sorry for the lousy image but haven't decided to take it apart yet given my experience with the reset button of my 5328A (story for another time). This is part of the plug in frame so replacing it means a new plugin very €€€€. Ideas?
?
Last question is about adjustments. The last adjustment in the manual is Marker DAC. Although setting the trigger level is quite tricky (seems easier with a scope) the reading I have is indeed 500 and in some moments 400 however full rotations of A4R28 make no differences. This does not sound very good, but more than adequate for hobbyist use
?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions for and recommendations
?
cheers
?

switch.jpg
flangia.jpg

Re: VNA Resonance Methodology

 

jmr,
I appreciate the offer, but it won't be necessary, thanks all the same. Now I know where I went wrong the dip is readily visible. I just need to take more care with my coil-winding technique in future!
Thanks to all who chipped in with suggestions in this thread; much appreciated.
Re: 83592B Plugin Repair - No RF Output - Need some measurements

 

Hi,
have you read the thread

"Help request - how to test an HP8350B RF plugin YIG"

?
It was an unexpected problem in the PCB's sockets, check that too.
?
John.?
mailing lists, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Trying to go through alignment procedure for HP412A that I rebuilt, having trouble with first step lol

 

On 11/30/24 21:27, Dan via groups.io wrote:
Okay, I really appreciate it Dave. ?So what¡¯s the difference really? Do they kind of function the same, but each message and response puts an email in your email account?
Yes, pretty much. The first thing to remember is that mailing lists have nothing at all to do with the web, web servers, web sites, or web browsers. It's an email address that you send an email to (by whatever means you access your email), and then that email is re-sent automatically to all the people subscribed to (registered to be recipients of) the mailing list.

Groups.io is a commercial vendor of mailing list services. They provide a web interface for list administrators to manage their lists, as well as for people to view archives of past list traffic. In recent years that functionality has been (inadvisably, IMO) extended to include posting messages to the mailing list from the web interface as well.

This has blurred the line between mailing lists and web forums, and has resulted in a whole lot of confusion. The primary usage of this and other "groups" is via email, though some people who want to pretend it's a web forum can do so, and it's mostly good enough for that. (though I myself do not have the patience for it; I'm a very busy person)

Many people feel that web forums are the "new" way and mailing lists are the "old" way, and while mailing lists are much older (dating back to the 1970s) the reality is that both formats are decades old and it really just boils down to personal preference.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
3181 - 3200 of 151497