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HP 62615M manual may also be combined with HP 62605

 

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does anyone have a manual for this beast?

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Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Marco, I forgot to include these remarks

?

Here are two signs of a damaged mixer that I have already noticed (blue curves):

- At 0 Hz, the carrier exceeds the reference level

- PRESET: ATTENUATOR = 0 dB (whether the attenuator is installed or not does not change anything). Between 0Hz and 10 MHz, the noise increases in the lower frequencies instead of remaining relatively flat.

?

Yves

?
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Marco,

?

I don't know what value your Spectrum's attenuator was set to.

Even if it wasn't connected, the IF gain will change according to that value.

So, I did a test at 0dB and 10dB, even if the Spectrum's internal attenuator wasn't connected.

I inserted a precise level at -20dBm at 300 or 1500 MHz.

?

Now looking at the results, it may seem surprising that the values ??at 300 and 1500 MHz are very similar.

In fact, this is normal in my case since, in the calibration table (Flatness) there is a gap of only 1dB between the level at 300 MHz and 1500 MHz, at 1500MHz the signal is attenuated by 1dB, and this 1dB is mainly due to the cables connecting the Spectrum input to the attenuator and from the attenuator to the first converter.

Also, the attenuator does not have a flat frequency response.

Since I connected directly to the first converter, these losses are not included in the test measurement.

?

300 MHz

Spectrum ATT

EXT ATT

0 dB

10 dB

0 dB att

-19.4

-9.4

10db att

-29.4

-19.4

20db att

-39.4

-29.4

30db att

-49.5

-39.4

1500 MHz

Spectrum ATT

EXT ATT

0 dB

10 dB

0 dB att

-19.5

-9.4

10db att

-29.7

-19.5

20db att

-39.8

-29.7

30db att

-49.9

-39.8

?

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de jansen.marco90@...
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 8 novembre 2024 07:53
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

?

That image was very helpful! I ordered replacement components according to your values. Both for the through hole and the smd resistors. I went with thin film ones because couldn't get any specific RF resistors in the right values.

They should be in early next week.??

?

I also got a set of BNC attenuators (Hameg HZ24 rated to 1GHz), so I hooked up the cal signal straight into the mixer, with the external attenuators.?

?

Measured the 300MHz with the same settings you did before:

correction at OFF

SPAN 100kHz

resBW 10kHz

vidBW 100Hz

MKR peak

REFlevel at -10dBm

?

found the following:

Attenuators??

300MHz

1500MHz

10dB

-14,4

-30,9

20dB

-25,3

-41,3

10+20dB

-36,8

-55

So the 300MHz looks quite okay I'd say and the 1500MHz is not too bad considering the 1GHz rated attenuators.

?

Though at 1500MHz I had to use a bigger span because I couldn't get the peak centered in small span. Peak>CF would not work and manually scrolling, the frequency would change but the peak would stay in it's place. This was without proper warmup of the SA btw.?

?

Would that mean that the mixer diodes have to be replaced asweel or would other measurements be needed to answer that??

?

Marco
Re: HP 16500C Display Question

 

I thought I'd seen something on eevblog but didn't find that.
I think that card is another of these programmable devices but for ?20 shipped I'll give it a try. I want to do something like this for a 53310A and it might work there.
?
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

That image was very helpful! I ordered replacement components according to your values. Both for the through hole and the smd resistors. I went with thin film ones because couldn't get any specific RF resistors in the right values.
They should be in early next week.??
?
I also got a set of BNC attenuators (Hameg HZ24 rated to 1GHz), so I hooked up the cal signal straight into the mixer, with the external attenuators.?
?
Measured the 300MHz with the same settings you did before:

correction at OFF

SPAN 100kHz

resBW 10kHz

vidBW 100Hz

MKR peak

REFlevel at -10dBm

?

found the following:

Attenuators?? 300MHz 1500MHz
10dB -14,4 -30,9
20dB -25,3 -41,3
10+20dB -36,8 -55
So the 300MHz looks quite okay I'd say and the 1500MHz is not too bad considering the 1GHz rated attenuators.
?
Though at 1500MHz I had to use a bigger span because I couldn't get the peak centered in small span. Peak>CF would not work and manually scrolling, the frequency would change but the peak would stay in it's place. This was without proper warmup of the SA btw.?
?
Would that mean that the mixer diodes have to be replaced asweel or would other measurements be needed to answer that??
?
Marco
Re: HP 16500C Display Question

 

I had another look for the 16500B and found this fellow ...?



I see a video port on that to. Hmmm.


On Fri, Nov 8, 2024 at 5:46?PM Damien Towning via <connolly.damien=[email protected]> wrote:
I have an RGB2HDMI for another old bit of hardware.

But this is not EGA. Found a good thread over at EEVOLG :?

The mention of a board for the 16500B to output VGA as an option is interesting.?

The arcade display boards might be the way to go.?

On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:59?PM Adrian Godwin via <artgodwin=[email protected]> wrote:
I had the same reaction.
?
Eventually I came across some information about it. It appears there are a couple (probably more now) of devices to do the conversion and some fairly common pcbs to support them. I haven't got any further than buying a couple of PCBs but I think these are pointers to follow :
?
?



--
Damien Towning

?



--
Damien Towning

?
Re: HP 16500C Display Question

 

I have an RGB2HDMI for another old bit of hardware.

But this is not EGA. Found a good thread over at EEVOLG :?

The mention of a board for the 16500B to output VGA as an option is interesting.?

The arcade display boards might be the way to go.?


On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:59?PM Adrian Godwin via <artgodwin=[email protected]> wrote:
I had the same reaction.
?
Eventually I came across some information about it. It appears there are a couple (probably more now) of devices to do the conversion and some fairly common pcbs to support them. I haven't got any further than buying a couple of PCBs but I think these are pointers to follow :
?
?



--
Damien Towning

?
1991 HP 54600A missing text and display elements

[email protected]
 

I am attempting to repair a broken HP 54600A.
When I first powered it on the display was all solid green and squashed vertically, 3 of the tantalum caps on the motherboard also let out their magic smoke.

I have replaced the caps and the two responsible for the vertical deflection of the CRT.

It now displays both waveforms correctly but the display is missing all of the text and many other UI elements making the menus unusable.

Any help diagnosing this would be appreciated
Thanks,
Callum
?
Re: HP 16500C Display Question

 

From looking at a schematic of the CRT it looks like they have capacitors in series to cut the dc. Going to try today some caps in series to see what happens on the R/G/B channels. It may be that rather than lifting the signal out of the connector on the mother board I lift it somewhere out of the crt past its somewhat odd resistor and capacitor setup. I was wondering if they did this to make the whole lot more tolerant to noise and interference.?


On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 10:34?PM Kuba Sunderland-Ober via <kuba=[email protected]> wrote:
I¡¯ve used EGA sources with VGA displays in a pinch with a passive ¡°DAC¡± with resistors and a black restorer using an RF Schottky. I don¡¯t think I understand what¡¯s so special about ¡°native EGA¡± monitors. Even back when I actually had an EGA in one of my PCs in the 80s there was a little homebrew dongle that adapted that output to VGA. Many hobbyists I knew had one. I don¡¯t have the schematics anymore but it was common and cheap to put together.?

Cheers, Kuba

3. nov. 2024 kl.?11:39?pm skrev Adrian Godwin via <artgodwin=[email protected]>:

?
From the tomverbeure reference you provided,?
?
"The voltage levels for the sync signals are a standard 5V TTL (good!), but the voltage levels for the analog signals are weird, with a baseline of -1.7V and a maximum value of 125mV (WTF?), or an amplitude of 1.825V."
?
I guess this would explain why you got the display to sync but with the video all black. VGA appears to be 0 to 0.7V positive, ie composite without the sync.
So you'd need to shift the levels up 1.7V and halve them to get anything displayed.
?



--
Damien Towning

?
Re: Repair of HP Logic Clips

 

Here, here! Everyones time and effort should be rewarded in some fashion. Often, appreciation is enough, other times, not. Some people do not have deep pockets, so trivial costs to some may be greater for others. Profit, if reasonable, is not evil in of itself.

In a message dated 11/7/2024 12:15:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, tekscopes@... writes:
?
Profit doesn't have to enter into everything
I have to push back on this one: it doesn't but there is nothing wrong with making profit either. Every project no matter how small costs time and money, and honest work deserves to be compensated. To expect otherwise is to undermine the value of all that investment.
?
If the author chooses to release their design freely, it should be treated as a generous gift that it is, not as an expectation.
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Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi,

?

If you have lost your calibration constants, it will be possible to rebuild them.

For the moment there is the attenuator to repair... it is easily achievable according to the image.

?

But I fear for your mixer, there is a good chance that it is damaged.

But that too is repairable, it is only two SOT-23 components to replace (diodes).

?

Attenuator values-based of attenuation.

?

?

?

Attenuator from RF input to first converter input. At left, absolute loss vs frequency, at right, VNA normalized to 0dB attenuator trace.

?

?

Yves

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de jansen.marco90@...
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 6 novembre 2024 14:35
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

?

Hey Yves,

?

Thanks for your reply! Those measurements look a lot more like what I expected. Took me a few days but got my hands on a nanoVNA and hooked it up to only the attenuator today. The noisefloor of the VNA at high frequencies is too high to really say something about the attenuator but at 100 and 400MHz the measurements are usable. It looks like the 10db is tilted and the 20dB is attenuating less than the 10dB. The 30dB looks ok.?

i'd say this attenuator is toast, might still be more issues along the path though.?

?

Levels

?

?

?

100MHz

300MHz

600MHz

cable through

1.5dB

0.0dB

-0.1dB

analyzer off

-66dB

-53db

-64dB

10db att

-21dB

-15dB

-12dB

20db att

-15dB

-15dB

-17dB

30db att

-34db

-30 dB

-30dB

40db att

-51dB

-43dB

-44dB

50db att

-45dB

-44dB

-49dB

60db att

-66dB

-53dB

-66dB

Wanted to backup the frequency response correction constants of the unit today but found out they are all gone already. So even if the attenuator and other issues could be fixed it would still need some form of calibration. Starting to feel more and more like flogging a dead horse.

?

Marco
Wanted: Hp 2225 parts mule Thinkjet

 

?
Looking for an Hp 2225 ThinkJet printer ... parts mule:
?? ( any of the 2225a, b, c, d units )

? I need the switch assembly ( Pwr / LF / FF? with LED's ) in the top upper Left hand corner.
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Contact me Off-List (PM)
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thank you,
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

I went ahead and took the attenuator out. It's a JFW 50p-1120 and it was definitely abused by a previous owner. Googled the part number hoping to find other teardown pictures to find out replacement values but no luck so far
Re: Repair of HP Logic Clips

 

It has never been my intention to make these boards for profit, and I'll be happy to up-load all files
I just made it for my self, because I thought it was a funny project
?
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

Hey Yves,
?
Thanks for your reply! Those measurements look a lot more like what I expected. Took me a few days but got my hands on a nanoVNA and hooked it up to only the attenuator today. The noisefloor of the VNA at high frequencies is too high to really say something about the attenuator but at 100 and 400MHz the measurements are usable. It looks like the 10db is tilted and the 20dB is attenuating less than the 10dB. The 30dB looks ok.?
i'd say this attenuator is toast, might still be more issues along the path though.?
? Levels ? ?
? 100MHz 300MHz 600MHz
cable through 1.5dB 0.0dB -0.1dB
analyzer off -66dB -53db -64dB
10db att -21dB -15dB -12dB
20db att -15dB -15dB -17dB
30db att -34db -30 dB ?-30dB
40db att -51dB -43dB ?-44dB
50db att -45dB -44dB -49dB
60db att ?-66dB -53dB -66dB
Wanted to backup the frequency response correction constants of the unit today but found out they are all gone already. So even if the attenuator and other issues could be fixed it would still need some form of calibration. Starting to feel more and more like flogging a dead horse.
?
Marco
Re: Repair of HP Logic Clips

 

Neat project!? Well done.

If it were me, I'd release the board design and BoM* under a creative commons license and let others in on the act for personal use.? Profit doesn't have to enter into everything.? It'll be impossible to keep something like that "secret" anyway.

(* based on DigiKey / Mouser part numbers perhaps, with generic reference too, as they are largely universal world wide.)

The most expensive parts for most people (who are not conversant with ordering PCB's from a board shop) will be the two PCB's

Perhaps the only way to make a shekel on it, would be to order a batch of boards, and sell pairs them with the documentation.?? (eBay sell for free these days, at least hear in the UK, if you believe the ad's on TV.)

Regards.

Dave B (UK)



--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using open source software:
Re: Repair of HP Logic Clips

 

If he were instead to sell it, He may find the market really too small to be worthwhile. Probably no profit motive here otherwise.
Re: Repair of HP Logic Clips

 

On 11/5/24 12:51, Hans Eriksen via groups.io wrote:
Well - as I wrote I didn't put pads on my layout for the 2 interconnections, but I did mount 2 wire between the boards
Any of the 16 pins can provide power and ground
The reason for not putting on these pads (and the capacitor) was because I didn't wanted to make the PCB any bigger than the clip itself
The wire are mounted of the pins of the components, same as small cap, 22nF 0402 on both boards
If you are so inclined, I think it would be great for you to release the design, perhaps in the files section here. I have an original HP Logic Clip, but I would like to construct a few of your implementation, as people at the museum keep needing to borrow mine and I don't want it to get lost over there.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Repair of HP Logic Clips

 

Well - as I wrote I didn't put pads on my layout for the 2 interconnections, but I did mount 2 wire between the boards
Any of the 16 pins can provide power and ground
?
The reason for not putting on these pads (and the capacitor) was because I didn't wanted to make the PCB any bigger than the clip itself
The wire are mounted of the pins of the components, same as small cap, 22nF 0402 on both boards
?
Re: Repair of HP Logic Clips

 

As one who repaired a few logic clips back in the day it looks like the DIY approach above missed something HP did, which was to interconnect the Vcc and local ground busses across both sides of the logic clip. IIRC HP used differently marked 20-pin IC packages in their logic clip so that just bending the end pins (and soldering them) across sides provided that interconnection. The ICs were mounted solid, only the contact wires flexed.??
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