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Re: HP 4192A LF Impedance Analyzer Repair Assistance Needed

 

Yves, thank you so much for the guidance.
?
I replaced U2(original part number 1990-0577) with a Broadcom HCPL-2531 and it resolved the issue. ?The 4192A now appears to be fully functional! ?Thanks for the reminder on the RIFA caps, I bought those & other parts to go thru the power supply next.
?
Also, incase someone in the future needs this information - I also replaced reed relays A1K2 and A1K3 (original HP part number 0490-0240 / labelled NEC PRAD-2) with Littelfuse HE721A1210 (this model has the flyback diode, change the last 2 digits to 00 if you want one without it). ?Why did I replace them? I did something stupid and damaged the originals while testing them last week.
?
Phil
?
?
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Re: 8566B Power supply fault

 

Nice troubleshooting. Some of the toughest ones to problem solve are when someone's already been poking around in there.

You've probably already done this but worth mentioning to check power rails with a scope. As a data point, my 85662A had a bad filter cap on the +23V Unreg line (C3). Also had bad A3A2 and A3A3 boards.

-Michael Bierlein

On Wed, Oct 9, 2024 at 12:01 Matt Harris <kd4pbs@...> wrote:
I purchased a 8566B off that auction site that was listed as "Used good" and "tested".? Of course, after some work, it was found to be none of the above.
When I finally found a decent deal on another auction for the 85662A that was also "Used good" and "tested", which means it has a nearly dead CRT and some other issue likely related to the A4A5 board that had not screws holding it in and had cables disconnected from the top, I was at least able to have a very dim display to show me how well the RF unit worked.? It didn't.? The display would flash the ominous Unlock errors of PL1 UNLOCK, PL2 UNLOCK, REF UNLOCK, YTO UNLOCK, and HET UNLOCK.? Punching in different span rates and frequencies would cause the SA to lock up - no button presses worked and the sweep would stop, requiring the INSTR PRESET to be pressed to return to things happening.? Hoping against hope it was simply a power supply issue, I was rewarded to find that the -40V supply fuse had blown.? Replacing it with another 3AG 1.5A fuse saw this immediately blow when the power cord was plugged in.? I had assumed a bad tantalum, but even with every power connection removed from the -40V rail, it was still shorted to ground.? Using a low-ohms scale, I was able to narrow down where on the trace was the most likely shorted to ground, but nothing was evident other than the fact it disappeared under the regulator power transistor heatsink.? Figuring this had to be where the issue was, I removed all the TO-3 transistors and the regulator from the heatsink, and removed the whole block.? Once removed, the problem was very evident.
The interesting part about this is that the insulator had no way to move on it's own.? All the transistors had original date codes from when the unit was made (1985) but the TO-3 packaged regulator U1, which is part of the +12V regulator circuit had a date code of 2023.? So, within the last year or so, someone tried to fix the unit by replacing a (likely blown) U1 regulator, but didn't pay attention to getting the insulator back on the bottom of the heatsink properly, and likely decided the unit was not worth trying to figure out what issue they had next with this old gal - which as it turns out was simply carelessness.? After cleaning up the little bit of arc damage to the trace and heatsink, then properly reassembling everything, no unlock warnings were observed.??
Unfortunately, things aren't working 100% yet, as I still have to put the replacement CRT into the 85662A and troubleshoot why nothing but a flat line at the bottom of the display is seen.? This issue is likely something in the display section, since I suspect problems with that A4A5 card. >:(

Someone might have a similar issue in the future, and hopefully this info will help.

73,
Matt
8566B Power supply fault

 

I purchased a 8566B off that auction site that was listed as "Used good" and "tested".? Of course, after some work, it was found to be none of the above.
When I finally found a decent deal on another auction for the 85662A that was also "Used good" and "tested", which means it has a nearly dead CRT and some other issue likely related to the A4A5 board that had not screws holding it in and had cables disconnected from the top, I was at least able to have a very dim display to show me how well the RF unit worked.? It didn't.? The display would flash the ominous Unlock errors of PL1 UNLOCK, PL2 UNLOCK, REF UNLOCK, YTO UNLOCK, and HET UNLOCK.? Punching in different span rates and frequencies would cause the SA to lock up - no button presses worked and the sweep would stop, requiring the INSTR PRESET to be pressed to return to things happening.? Hoping against hope it was simply a power supply issue, I was rewarded to find that the -40V supply fuse had blown.? Replacing it with another 3AG 1.5A fuse saw this immediately blow when the power cord was plugged in.? I had assumed a bad tantalum, but even with every power connection removed from the -40V rail, it was still shorted to ground.? Using a low-ohms scale, I was able to narrow down where on the trace was the most likely shorted to ground, but nothing was evident other than the fact it disappeared under the regulator power transistor heatsink.? Figuring this had to be where the issue was, I removed all the TO-3 transistors and the regulator from the heatsink, and removed the whole block.? Once removed, the problem was very evident.
The interesting part about this is that the insulator had no way to move on it's own.? All the transistors had original date codes from when the unit was made (1985) but the TO-3 packaged regulator U1, which is part of the +12V regulator circuit had a date code of 2023.? So, within the last year or so, someone tried to fix the unit by replacing a (likely blown) U1 regulator, but didn't pay attention to getting the insulator back on the bottom of the heatsink properly, and likely decided the unit was not worth trying to figure out what issue they had next with this old gal - which as it turns out was simply carelessness.? After cleaning up the little bit of arc damage to the trace and heatsink, then properly reassembling everything, no unlock warnings were observed.??
Unfortunately, things aren't working 100% yet, as I still have to put the replacement CRT into the 85662A and troubleshoot why nothing but a flat line at the bottom of the display is seen.? This issue is likely something in the display section, since I suspect problems with that A4A5 card. >:(

Someone might have a similar issue in the future, and hopefully this info will help.

73,
Matt
Re: 8131A Error F500

 

You could build one with discrete components. Might be tight to fit them all on there. Or fabricate a small daughter board that sockets into the board.? Datasheet for the UPA104G is online and provides the schematic.?
?
-Frank
Re: 8131A Error F500

 

Bit more fault finding on unit 1 and I do indeed have a pulse from the timing board going into a UOA104G on the transducer board, but nothing coming out.?
?
UPA104G seems to be unavailable now. Ebay has them, but probably a good chance they are fake or factory rejects.?
?
Also, I could do with a good scan of the transducer board if anybody has one. The service manual copies online are appalling.?
Wanted: Hp 2225a ThinkJet printer .... or parts mule ...

 

?
Looking for an Hp 2225a ThinkJet printer, ? "A" version, having HP-IB
Or PCB guts ...? parts mule...
?
Contact me Off-List (PM)
?
thank you,
rick
8568b does not start

 

This morning my 8568B didn't start. The fans go, the Instr check 1 red LED is on.
In the afternoon, it started it again and I could use it normally.
Now again as above, it does not start.
?
Have someone suggestions before starting the battle?
?
Thanks
?
Gianni
Re: Can someone rate the HP 8360 83630 etc. as a repair project?

 

Correct topic link /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/topic/105828529
Re: Can someone rate the HP 8360 83630 etc. as a repair project?

 

?
Service manual for 8360 series available from ko4bb site:
?
Re: Can someone rate the HP 8360 83630 etc. as a repair project?

 

In Melbourne, Australia, I have two paper manuals that might not be on the Keysight web site:
?
HP 8360 Series synthesized Sweepers Assembly Level Repair Volume 3 (Inc Options 001, 003, 004, 006, and 008).
SN Prefix 3044A
Manual part No 08360-90060
November 1990
(it is smaller than A4 but bigger than A5, double sided, maybe 300 to 400 pages, weighs just over 2kg, definitely original)
?
HP 8360B-Series Swept Signal Generator / HP 8360 L-Series Swept CW Generator Service Guide
SNo Prefixes? ? 83620B/22B/23B/24B/30B/40B/50B? 3844A and below
83623L/30L/40L/50L? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3844 and below
HP Part N0. 08360-90125
February 1999
(it is smaller than A4 but bigger than A5, double sided, maybe 300 to 400 pages, weighs just under 2kg, definitely original)
?
regards
Charles Edmonds
VK3CLE
Re: Can someone rate the HP 8360 83630 etc. as a repair project?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Artek has nothing on the 8360 series, I just checked. They have O&S manual scans for the 863xx series but that¡¯s a whole different beast.?
¡°Not economically repairable¡± and ¡°non trivial fault¡± are like beauty, all in the eye of the beholder ?
¡°Not economically repairable¡± could be a simple excuse to use when you want to upgrade equipment. A bad fuseholder or a slightly worn front panel on an otherwise operational but ¡°out of support¡± sweeper could get you a brand new one. But it could also mean ¡°we gutted this thing of all useable components.¡±
Non trivial repair for some is a cake walk for others with more experience, a better lab, deeper pockets¡­
I have paper copies of the 8360 operation and service manuals and they stop short of the RF goodies.?

Steve



On Oct 8, 2024, at 3:50?PM, Edward Prest via groups.io <prest.edward.3@...> wrote:

?
I was wondering if an old sweeper such as 83630 that has commercial "not economically repairable" faults is repairable on a home repair type budget? I know it depends, assume a non trivial fault. They seem to be well liked. I know nothing about them and little on Hp/Agilent equipment repairs (my experience is mostly older Tek S/A and R&S gens). I understand a CLIP is available from Artek. Do the CLIPs include microwave modules such as rf amps?? I assume all F/W is available. What about lost calibration hassles?
?
In general, are they full of hard or impossible to repair custom components? I know that used Agilent YIGs are pricey as being difficult to repair.? ?In running condition these sweepers go for about 4? to $9k so it seems worth a try if the used price is really good- which maybe means its not component level repairable??
?
I want to generate cw mostly, occasional sweeps at least to 20GHz. I am not concerned about rf level accuracy but cw needs to be pretty clean.
?
?
Can someone rate the HP 8360 83630 etc. as a repair project?

 

I was wondering if an old sweeper such as 83630 that has commercial "not economically repairable" faults is repairable on a home repair type budget? I know it depends, assume a non trivial fault. They seem to be well liked. I know nothing about them and little on Hp/Agilent equipment repairs (my experience is mostly older Tek S/A and R&S gens). I understand a CLIP is available from Artek. Do the CLIPs include microwave modules such as rf amps?? I assume all F/W is available. What about lost calibration hassles?
?
In general, are they full of hard or impossible to repair custom components? I know that used Agilent YIGs are pricey as being difficult to repair.? ?In running condition these sweepers go for about 4? to $9k so it seems worth a try if the used price is really good- which maybe means its not component level repairable??
?
I want to generate cw mostly, occasional sweeps at least to 20GHz. I am not concerned about rf level accuracy but cw needs to be pretty clean.
?
?
Re: Anyone able to do GC or GC-MS on Hp ThinkJet Black ink ( for the Hp ThinkJet 2225 printer; Hp 9226a Or Hp 51604a ink cartridges ) ?

 

I gave up on inkjet printers a few years ago, replacing it with a second (identical) old HP Laserjet that uses aftermarket cartridges and is so old it complains but doesn¡¯t refuse to use the cheap cartridges.?

On the rare occasions I need to print in color, I take the job to the place where I volunteer and use their Brother MFC-L8905CDW color laser printer. It replaced an HP M477fdw color Laserjet that broke (the fuser died) and couldn¡¯t be repaired¡ªtoo old, HP had stopped supporting it.?

Jeremy?


On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 10:25?AM Dave McGuire via <mcguire=[email protected]> wrote:
On 10/6/24 15:10, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> THIS is why I've pretty much given up on the idea of inkjet printers.? I have a LaserJet 1320 sitting here and turn it on when I need to print something,? otherwise it just sits there and doesn't use anything up.? Love that duplexer,? too!? :-)

? ?Yep.? Consumer inkjet printers have for many years been a scam
perpetrated upon people who don't know any better, and won't learn about
technology before using it.? Or more importantly, buying it.

? ?Xerox WorkCentre 4260 and HP Color LaserJet 5550dtn here.? No time
for farting around with consumer toys; I have work to do.

? ?I cannot count the number of times I've had the same conversation
with clueless people:

Me: "That's dumb.? You would be better off with a laser printer."
Moron: "Laser printer!? OH NOES, toner cartridges be 'SPENSIVE!"
Me: "How many pages do you get from a $50 set of inkjet cartridges?"
Moron: "150 or so"
Me: "I get about 20,000 pages from a $150 toner cartridge."
Moron: [eyes glaze over] "But...FOOTBALL!"

? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Thoughts on upgraded(?) replacement parts for vintage equipment

 

A few tears go, someone on an antique radio newsgroup stated that he'had just won an auction for a HP3325A. One of the self appointed 'experts' insisted that he had to 'replace every capacitor!'. I poibted out that it was a digital design, with hundreds of capacitors, and all were long life, modern components. I was told off for 'Not doing things right'. Sadly most of the people on that newsgroup could barely solder, bet alon cang components on multi layer boards. There were no high acid paper capacitors, or substandard electrolytics. so there was no reason to mutilate the unit.
I have a National NC 183R receiver that a supposed 'Electrical Engineer had 'recapped. There are wires run all of the place to a large wad off capacitors wrapped in layers of electrical tap that hangs out of the back of the unit. I'm going to have to remove it all, and start over. Not only that, but he shouldn't be allowed near a soldering iron. The only mod I intend to do t it is use he accessory connector to geed a SDR moduke to process the IF? to various modes that din't exist back in the '50s.


On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 1:49?PM Harold Foster via <halfoster=[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 11:40 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
The collector might say "Noooo, that will destroy the originality!"

The working engineer might say "I'm going to do it; it will improve reliability."

The ham radio guy's response might be "I'll do that because it'll make it cheaper."

Who is "right"? I say they all are. They are each acting in the best interest of their own use cases.
I - and I suspect many others - are a combination of all three depending on the circumstances.? Like you I tend to make a determination depending on whether it is "part of a collection" or a daily use "tool."? Sometimes there is overlap, usually not.? For me personally the two items I have modified in a significant way are the HP 3400A and the HP 5087A. On my bench currently is a 3400A whose only original circuit board is the power supply - it functions better than the original and does everything that I ask... but it is not in any way a "3400A" any more, at least in my mind.? I have another that is one of the very early models that has been cleaned and restored without any significant changes or new parts - it works well and I am very proud of it as a collectable.? The 5087A is on the 4th revision of the output amplifier boards just because I enjoy trying new ways to skin the same cat.? All work just fine... well, not really the first - forgot and left the ground plane under the inductors which was not optimal ;-) Anyway, in the end I reduced (completely unnecessarily) the harmonics another 15-20 dB or so with cards that bear no resemblance to the originals other than form factor and yet I still think of it as a "5087A" and not a weird Frankenstein of a distribution amplifier.? So, I guess that I'm just very flexible in my definitions.? I think I was expecting mostly responses such as the "collector" example Dave gave above basically saying that I was a complete heretic for even considering molesting a poor piece of classic HP goodness - I'm relieved to see that I'm not alone in my equipment modification perversions ;-)
?
Hal
?
Re: Thoughts on upgraded(?) replacement parts for vintage equipment

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

If Dummy Dingbat wishes to put big wheel tubs, drag slicks, skinny front tires, hood scoops, and a chopped top on his 1932 Bugatti Royale, Then who is anyone to tell him he can't do that?

True. But I do reserve the right to tar and feather Dummy Dingbat and carry him around on a piece of rail track. In the best (cartoon) Wild West tradition.?

Wilko
Re: Thoughts on upgraded(?) replacement parts for vintage equipment

 

On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 12:49 PM, Harold Foster wrote:
I'm relieved to see that I'm not alone in my equipment modification perversions ;-)
Well, at least for the equipment that actually works for a living anyway...
Re: Thoughts on upgraded(?) replacement parts for vintage equipment

 

On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 11:40 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
The collector might say "Noooo, that will destroy the originality!"

The working engineer might say "I'm going to do it; it will improve reliability."

The ham radio guy's response might be "I'll do that because it'll make it cheaper."

Who is "right"? I say they all are. They are each acting in the best interest of their own use cases.
I - and I suspect many others - are a combination of all three depending on the circumstances.? Like you I tend to make a determination depending on whether it is "part of a collection" or a daily use "tool."? Sometimes there is overlap, usually not.? For me personally the two items I have modified in a significant way are the HP 3400A and the HP 5087A. On my bench currently is a 3400A whose only original circuit board is the power supply - it functions better than the original and does everything that I ask... but it is not in any way a "3400A" any more, at least in my mind.? I have another that is one of the very early models that has been cleaned and restored without any significant changes or new parts - it works well and I am very proud of it as a collectable.? The 5087A is on the 4th revision of the output amplifier boards just because I enjoy trying new ways to skin the same cat.? All work just fine... well, not really the first - forgot and left the ground plane under the inductors which was not optimal ;-) Anyway, in the end I reduced (completely unnecessarily) the harmonics another 15-20 dB or so with cards that bear no resemblance to the originals other than form factor and yet I still think of it as a "5087A" and not a weird Frankenstein of a distribution amplifier.? So, I guess that I'm just very flexible in my definitions.? I think I was expecting mostly responses such as the "collector" example Dave gave above basically saying that I was a complete heretic for even considering molesting a poor piece of classic HP goodness - I'm relieved to see that I'm not alone in my equipment modification perversions ;-)
?
Hal
?
Re: Anyone able to do GC or GC-MS on Hp ThinkJet Black ink ( for the Hp ThinkJet 2225 printer; Hp 9226a Or Hp 51604a ink cartridges ) ?

 

On 10/6/24 15:10, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
THIS is why I've pretty much given up on the idea of inkjet printers. I have a LaserJet 1320 sitting here and turn it on when I need to print something, otherwise it just sits there and doesn't use anything up. Love that duplexer, too! :-)
Yep. Consumer inkjet printers have for many years been a scam perpetrated upon people who don't know any better, and won't learn about technology before using it. Or more importantly, buying it.

Xerox WorkCentre 4260 and HP Color LaserJet 5550dtn here. No time for farting around with consumer toys; I have work to do.

I cannot count the number of times I've had the same conversation with clueless people:

Me: "That's dumb. You would be better off with a laser printer."
Moron: "Laser printer! OH NOES, toner cartridges be 'SPENSIVE!"
Me: "How many pages do you get from a $50 set of inkjet cartridges?"
Moron: "150 or so"
Me: "I get about 20,000 pages from a $150 toner cartridge."
Moron: [eyes glaze over] "But...FOOTBALL!"

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Thoughts on upgraded(?) replacement parts for vintage equipment

 

And weigh considerably less than 56 pounds, one would hope.? ? ?Jim Ford, Laguna Hills, California, USA?


On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 10:06 AM, jmr via groups.io
<jmrhzu@...> wrote:
At some point someone will probably design a modern replacement for the top half of the classic old HP 8568B and 8566B spectrum analysers. It should be possible to design a decent digital IF (with IF preselection) and a really nice touch display. This would transform these old analysers, making them able to analyse modern signals and compete with modern instruments. Ideally, it would be a (plug and play) reversible modification in case anyone wants to restore one to the original state with the 85662 display section complete with CRT.
Re: Thoughts on upgraded(?) replacement parts for vintage equipment

 

At some point someone will probably design a modern replacement for the top half of the classic old HP 8568B and 8566B spectrum analysers. It should be possible to design a decent digital IF (with IF preselection) and a really nice touch display. This would transform these old analysers, making them able to analyse modern signals and compete with modern instruments. Ideally, it would be a (plug and play) reversible modification in case anyone wants to restore one to the original state with the 85662 display section complete with CRT.
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