Thanks Dave,
I shall research.
I might be skilled at it as I have a few to do.
Dave M
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On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:09?PM, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:
?On 8/27/24 17:02, Dave Miller wrote:
Has anyone figured out what this artifact is in the corners of the 70205A.
It almost looks to me like the EMI screen corrosion that occurs on the R&S FSEx and CMU units.
I have hmmm several ;-) with same defect.
In fact I don?€?t think I have one without the issue. This looks like what has become known as "cataracts". The PVA glue used to adhere the implosion shield to the CRT glass has deteriorated.
It can be fixed, but it's not easy and it's a bit dangerous. I have done it on many CRTs in my work at the museum, and back at "work work" I've done it on one 70205A CRT. If you google "CRT cataract repair" you'll see a million hits about it.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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On 8/27/24 17:02, Dave Miller wrote: Has anyone figured out what this artifact is in the corners of the 70205A.
It almost looks to me like the EMI screen corrosion that occurs on the R&S FSEx and CMU units.
I have hmmm several ;-) with same defect.
In fact I don?€?t think I have one without the issue. This looks like what has become known as "cataracts". The PVA glue used to adhere the implosion shield to the CRT glass has deteriorated. It can be fixed, but it's not easy and it's a bit dangerous. I have done it on many CRTs in my work at the museum, and back at "work work" I've done it on one 70205A CRT. If you google "CRT cataract repair" you'll see a million hits about it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Has anyone figured out what this artifact is in the corners of the 70205A.
It almost looks to me like the EMI screen corrosion that occurs on the R&S FSEx and CMU units.
I have hmmm several ;-) with same defect.
In fact I don¡¯t think I have one without the issue.
Thanks
Dave
|
Great discussion, everyone!? Still closely related to test equipment repair, which is of course why we are all here.? ?Thanks!? ? ? ? ? Jim Ford, Laguna Hills, California, USA
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 1:29 PM, Frank Mashockie <fmashockie@...> wrote: Yea I apologize Roy.? In fairness, the OPs original post title was 'What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics'.? So it lent itself to this discussion.? Though I know he did have a specific question about a piece of equipment buried in there.? I will stop my ranting after that last post.
?
-Frank
?
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Yea I apologize Roy.? In fairness, the OPs original post title was 'What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics'.? So it lent itself to this discussion.? Though I know he did have a specific question about a piece of equipment buried in there.? I will stop my ranting after that last post.
?
-Frank
?
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Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
Valdan,
?
Ahh there it is.? I was waiting for someone to say this.? So you believe a schematic is intellectual property that shouldn't be shared?? The service manual is intellectual property, too?? Was it intellectual property before when HP shared the information willingly with their customers?? Are we all doing a disservice to HP by sharing their schematics and service manuals without their permission then on this very website?
?
The truth is it is not intellectual property.? It is information that is needed by the customer to keep their equipment running.? And for that reason it should be shared with the customer.
?
I do exactly what you describe all the time.? For 90% of our equipment we have there are no schematics/service manuals.? Some of this equipment costs > six figures new.? And yes my company trusts me to repair it in-house.? I perform component level troubleshooting on PCBs without schematics often to great success and huge cost savings.? And while yes I do have a choice as you described, that has been whittled away at by manufacturers.? I already said this isn't just refusal of service manuals and schematics.? I have manufacturers that are refusing the sale of replacement parts unless their tech performs the repair for an absurd labor rate.? The big leagues like Merck, GSK, etc. have no problem paying for service contracts.? What about small businesses trying to get off the ground?? These service contracts are a huge expenditure.? And this is my point about how these practices hinder small business.? What about the man/woman trying to make a living getting their idea off the ground?
?
You literally sound like you a reading out of the playbook of these companies.? That is another I hear all the time "we don't support customer repair of our equipment because they might do further damage".? Completely asinine.? Perhaps they wouldn't have to worry about that if THEY SHARED THE INFO ON HOW TO FIX IT.??
?
Perhaps when you are faced with a situation where you are affected by these repair prevention practices you'll understand.? You never answered my question about the car example I gave.? Is that an acceptable outcome to you?? When you can't have your >$50k or more car repaired by the company that manufactured it after they charged you and arm and a leg?? Or worse, you have no choice but to go to the manufacturer because they've serialized all the parts in their device?? I wonder if you'll still be preaching the same tune then.
?
Sorry, I am very passionate about this topic.? And it makes my head hurt that in an open source forum like this there are people who don't understand why right to repair is so important.??
?
?
?
-Frank
?
?
?
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For some of that general repairability stuff, this might be a better place for it: [email protected]-- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
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Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 12:18 PM, Paul Amaranth wrote:
You haven't tried to flash an auto related module recently I take it? You may not need
an NDA but you do need $$$.
Actually, yes.? And I specifically purchased an older vehicle of a particular brand because I am able to do so.? (No, not Ford!)? And it was very reasonably priced, and has already saved me gobs compared to having to take it to even an independent service provider.? I shudder to think of how much it would have cost me over the past 40 years had I been paying for automobile service instead of doing everything myself, not to mention the anxiety of having to deal with the vast amount of incompetent service providers that have saturated the industry! The automobile manufacturer did not benefit from my purchase, but the person who owned the vehicle which I purchased used did.? So did the company who sold the aftermarket device which I use.? And they constantly release updates to it for bug fixes and new abilities. Which leads me to a related trap I discovered later... SWMBO wanted a particular vehicle.? It is not supported by the device I used for the above mentioned vehicle.? In fact, the only support I was able to find was with a tool which had a yearly subscription.? Had the tool been available without a yearly subscription, the tool manufacturer and the person selling the vehicle would have had a sale from me.? While I'm sure the vehicle seller still eventually sold the vehicle, perhaps for less money (it stayed on the market for another 2 months), for sure the tool manufacturer lost out on a sale.? Do they care?? Probably not.? That doesn't make it "okay" that this kind of thing goes on nowadays. Somehow this likely fits into the discussion, but I'm too lazy to figure out how right now ;)
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Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
On Tuesday 27 August 2024 12:18:16 pm Paul Amaranth wrote: On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 07:52:01AM -0700, Matt Harris wrote:
Could you imagine the outrage if, say, Ford required NDAs to be signed by independent repair facilities (or even backyard mechanics) just to be able to purchase the instructions, gaskets, and the special tool required to align the camshaft to the crankshaft in order to replace the head gaskets on their engines? You haven't tried to flash an auto related module recently I take it? You may not need
an NDA but you do need $$$.
As more of the functionality moves to software the ability to modify, change or fix it
resides with the manufacturer. The economics drive it and there's not much you can do
about it. In a recent conversation with my brother about wanting to get a vehicle with less gadgetry in it, he told me about a YT video where a VW owner had taken their car to the dealer because the windshiield wipers were not working. The necessary replacement module, which contained a CPU, ran something like $1400! His comment was "what's wrong with a switch?" I have a very nice Wavetek/Wandel Goltermann network cable analyzer. That division got
bought out by Ideal and discontinued. So if that ever breaks (actually when) I'm out
$3k with no option to repair. That's the way it is.
That's why, as far as possible, I try to stick with instruments from the 80s and early
90s with documentation and support groups. Some things have improved a great deal, but
most actual measurements haven't changed much. And when things break I can generally
fix them. Exactly why I'm giving serious thought to our next purchase being an older vehicle. I'm not into working on cars much any more, but I'll typically buy a Haynes manual for any vehicle we own, and I have a stack of them here. But for one of them no such manual is available. I eventually found a shop manual online for it, and it runs to something over 10,000 pages! I hear that modern cars can have ~250 CPUs in them. That's just crazy... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
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Re: HP85106 mmWave VNA, test set mode?
Update.?
Manual for 85106_B_ indeed states that the switch shall be set to ¡±S-PARAMETER¡±.?
Now the unit runs as expected.?
Regards,
?Staffan?
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Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 09:05 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
It is about having the choice.? The customer having the choice to repair the item THEY BOUGHT, the way they want to it.? They should be able to make the determination of which repair is economically viable.?
Frank, but you do have the choice. You work in biotech, right? Is anyone stopping you from taking your Illumina, PacBio, or Aviti apart to repair it? The only person who would stop you is your employer who paid for the equipment. If they are fine with your repair skills, I am sure they will let you work on the equipment. You could do what the people on EEVBLOG do so well - figure out how it all works without schematics and code. In return, your employer would save a lot of money on service contracts.
?
The truth however is that you would have a very hard time figuring out how it all works, so you are asking for free support from the manufacturer. When you purchase a piece of equipment, you are not automatically buying the rights to intellectual property, manufacturing know-how, software that took years to develop, or advice on how to repair the equipment beyond expected and predictable malfunctions. I understan you feel morally entitled to that, but owners of product rights often feel otherwise.
?
As I mentioned, many of us here are with one leg in each camp. We love to repair certain things, but some of us also have a main life making a living in the business. Those who run a manufacturing (or software) business know what the majority of customers want. They cannot cater to the 0.001%. Take for example the lower end of the oscilloscope business. It is flooded with Rigols, Siglents, and others. Customers like the low prices and apparently don't complain about the missing service manuals.
?
Take another example. A customer decides to do a DIY repair, ruins an otherwise repairable assembly, then sends it in for factory repair on a fixed price quote while pretending that they had no idea what happened. Factories can absorb a small amount of that, but not too much. The worst case scenario is when an independent repair shop inserts itself between the customer and the factory. Then the blame game starts as to how the product was ruined, why it's so expensive to repair, and who is responsible.
?
Hobby and professional don't mix well in this world. They can coexist, but the rules are different for the two.
?
Vladan
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Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
Chuck,
?
Again, I truly don't understand why you are here if you are not a proponent of right to repair.? This whole group existing is the definition of right to repair.? Being a proponent of right to repair doesn't necessarily mean legislation.? I think that is what you are getting stuck on.? Lemme guess you are one of those government regulation = bad folk???
?
I already said legislation isn't the best way.? We need to come together as a society and agree that the current way we are doing things isn't working and it needs to change.? Ideally that happens before it requires bad legislation.
?
Earlier you stated you're here to tell people when a repair is economically viable.? Well that ain't your decision to make.? Your example that you gave about you building a lightbulb perfectly proves my point.? For you, repairing a lightbulb might be economically viable.? For me it may not be as I have never tried to build one.? Its not up to the manufacturer to decide what is economically viable.? It is up to the customer.? Why? Because they bought the damn thing!? It is theirs and they should be able to repair it where ever and however they please.? The point is that manufacturers are making that near impossible.? It is getting to the point where in some cases you cannot go anywhere else but them to repair your equipment.? I already said it is not just service manuals and schematics they are refusing.? It is very common in my industry for manufacturers of lab equipment to REFUSE to sell spare parts directly to customers.? Under the guise that only their 'qualified techs' can perform the repair.
?
The statement that ' The only one that can economically repair most of these boards is the manufacturer' is also hilarious. Do you actually believe that? Economically repairable to whom? The customer?
?
You stating you use a 6100N programmer clearly shows how out of touch you are (not a bad programmer its actually on my wishlist for older gear). Today you can flash/program an MCU for $20. Free software, a UART/I2C-USB adapter, and the datasheet and you can perform most programming of today's MCUs. Which goes back to my point - with the correct knowledge, the average consumer has these tools available to them.
?
-Frank
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Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
Chuck you left off an
extension of the last line-
?and is most likely no longer with the company. (
retired/moved on etc..)
I have been called back to "fix things" for a similar
reason. LOL
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð
On 8/27/24 10:02 AM, Chuck Harris via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Frank,
I use a xeltek SuperPro 6100N device programmer, and it cost
me around $1500, plus a $500 hit for every new adapter I need.
I avoid parts that require me to get a new adapter.
Judging by the number of guys on this group that want parts
programmed, I am guessing that most don't have such a programmer.
I made my first light bulb in elementary school. I stole the
tungsten from an already burned out bulb (that's my story and
I'm sticking to it!), and used a bottle and a rubber cork to
seal the leads. I didn't have a vacuum pump, so I attempted
to provide a CO2 atmosphere, but, global warming and be damned,
CO2 isn't that great of an insulator. It was hard to get the
tungsten to glow when all of the heat is pulled away by the
CO2.
Back in the days of yor, and probably responsible for Edison
making a killing on light bulbs, the competition made light
bulbs that had removable bases that allowed for the replacement
of the filament, and recharging of the bulb with inert gas.
It also cost much more than Edison's simple disposable carbon
filament light bulb.
The point is: what was once a common way of manufacture, was
replaced with a cheaper, disposable device.
The same is true with circuit boards. The only one that
can economically repair most of these boards is the manufacturer
that produced them in the first place. And, they know nothing
about the schematic, only what the automated test bed tells
them. U44 is bad, replace it and try again.
The factory won't fix boards until there is a big enough pile
to warrant retooling the test jigs up for the job.
The engineer was the last person that knew what the board did
to a level of diagnosing it and doing a repair... If even he
did.
-Chuck Harris
On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:01:19 -0700 "Frank Mashockie"
<fmashockie@...> wrote:
Chuck,
Fair enough.? I get your point.? I think you could have used a better
example though.? I understand the difficulties in passing
legislation.? I already stated that I don't think legislation is the
best way.
The difference between your example and mine is that the average
consumer does not have the tools to manufacturer lightbulb filaments.
But they can easily grab the tools to repair their own electronics.
Especially if the manufacturers provided them the resources like they
used to.
Also, IMO the main factor that decides whether or not a repair is
economically viable is time.? And what sets aside modern equipment
from older ones is that service resources aren't made available
anymore.? Which makes repair longer.? I have no problem getting
modern equipment repaired as fast as older equipment when the
schematics/service tools are available.? In fact, sometimes the
modern stuff is quicker.? SMD work is faster than thru hole IMO.
-Frank
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Re: HP 141T Power Supply Help Needed
Appreciate the tip, Mike!? ?Will check that out this evening if I get a chance.? ?I did start looking at the filter caps last night, but I suspect its hard to tell much with the supply unloaded.? ?
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 12:50?PM Michael Bafaro via <m.bafaro= [email protected]> wrote: I have a 141T that had a rather leaky electrolytic cap in the phase compensation network in the +100 supply that caused the +100 output to be low at start up.? The voltage at startup was about 80V and as the unit warmed up the finally got to +100V (this took about 45 minutes).? Since all of the supplies are referenced from the +100V supply the all were low to start.? It turns out that the phase compensation cap C4 had enough leakage to disturb the divider network. Replacing the cap solved the startup problem.? In your case it could be that C7 may be the issue.? Checking the data sheet for the lytic said that the leakage for that cap should be less than 4 uA.? Measuring the leakage on my cap I found it to be on the order of 20X to 50X the spec limit.? I hope this helps. ? Mike Bafaro WA9ZEO ? ? Good Evening to the group!? ?First post but I've been reading a ton for a few weeks now.? ?
(I thought I posted this but I don't see it, so I'm reposting.. please delete if i did something dumb)?
I've got a 141T with a 1615a prefix.? It's power supply was a mess when I got it,?
almost every fuse was blown and most supply's were measuring high.? ?I replaced the? V1 regulator tube with a string of diodes and began debugging more.? It seems like most? of the drivers and differential amps were having _some_ problem.? ?I've measured most of? the transistors out of circuit and replaced with parts as recommended by other posts.? ?
At this point, I've got improved but still not great results. I've checked passives as best I can and I have measured around the transistors a bit.? Obviously trying not to blow anything up with the tight confines of the A2 board.? ? With the supply wires on the left removed to the rest of the unit, general voltages are as follows:?
* +102v which seems decent
* about -82v instead of -100v
* 300v instead of 248v, if it were tubes I'd almost expect this with an unloaded supply but I don't think I do expect it here.? * -1.5v instead of -12.6v.? ?
Acknowledging the dependencies between supplies, I'm starting at the -100v supply since +100 looks "ok" (for now at least).??
In the affected supplies, I "believe" all transistors and resistors are good but some of the zeners measure a little funky (maybe).??
Looking for guidance or advice to break down the problem a bit and work through it.? ? ?
TIA, Bill - WW1H?
|
Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
Hi Frank, I use a xeltek SuperPro 6100N device programmer, and it cost me around $1500, plus a $500 hit for every new adapter I need. I avoid parts that require me to get a new adapter. Judging by the number of guys on this group that want parts programmed, I am guessing that most don't have such a programmer. I made my first light bulb in elementary school. I stole the tungsten from an already burned out bulb (that's my story and I'm sticking to it!), and used a bottle and a rubber cork to seal the leads. I didn't have a vacuum pump, so I attempted to provide a CO2 atmosphere, but, global warming and be damned, CO2 isn't that great of an insulator. It was hard to get the tungsten to glow when all of the heat is pulled away by the CO2. Back in the days of yor, and probably responsible for Edison making a killing on light bulbs, the competition made light bulbs that had removable bases that allowed for the replacement of the filament, and recharging of the bulb with inert gas. It also cost much more than Edison's simple disposable carbon filament light bulb. The point is: what was once a common way of manufacture, was replaced with a cheaper, disposable device. The same is true with circuit boards. The only one that can economically repair most of these boards is the manufacturer that produced them in the first place. And, they know nothing about the schematic, only what the automated test bed tells them. U44 is bad, replace it and try again. The factory won't fix boards until there is a big enough pile to warrant retooling the test jigs up for the job. The engineer was the last person that knew what the board did to a level of diagnosing it and doing a repair... If even he did. -Chuck Harris On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:01:19 -0700 "Frank Mashockie" <fmashockie@...> wrote: Chuck,
Fair enough.? I get your point.? I think you could have used a better
example though.? I understand the difficulties in passing
legislation.? I already stated that I don't think legislation is the
best way.
The difference between your example and mine is that the average
consumer does not have the tools to manufacturer lightbulb filaments.
But they can easily grab the tools to repair their own electronics.
Especially if the manufacturers provided them the resources like they
used to.
Also, IMO the main factor that decides whether or not a repair is
economically viable is time.? And what sets aside modern equipment
from older ones is that service resources aren't made available
anymore.? Which makes repair longer.? I have no problem getting
modern equipment repaired as fast as older equipment when the
schematics/service tools are available.? In fact, sometimes the
modern stuff is quicker.? SMD work is faster than thru hole IMO.
-Frank
|
Re: HP 141T Power Supply Help Needed
I have a 141T that had a rather leaky electrolytic cap in the phase compensation network in the +100 supply that caused the +100 output to be low at start up.? The voltage at startup was about 80V and as the unit warmed up the finally got to +100V (this took about 45 minutes).? Since all of the supplies are referenced from the +100V supply the all were low to start.? It turns out that the phase compensation cap C4 had enough leakage to disturb the divider network. Replacing the cap solved the startup problem.? In your case it could be that C7 may be the issue.? Checking the data sheet for the lytic said that the leakage for that cap should be less than 4 uA.? Measuring the leakage on my cap I found it to be on the order of 20X to 50X the spec limit.? I hope this helps. ? Mike Bafaro WA9ZEO ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Berzinskas Sent: Monday, August 26, 2024 8:50 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 141T Power Supply Help Needed ? Good Evening to the group!? ?First post but I've been reading a ton for a few weeks now.? ?
(I thought I posted this but I don't see it, so I'm reposting.. please delete if i did something dumb)?
I've got a 141T with a 1615a prefix.? It's power supply was a mess when I got it,?
almost every fuse was blown and most supply's were measuring high.? ?I replaced the? V1 regulator tube with a string of diodes and began debugging more.? It seems like most? of the drivers and differential amps were having _some_ problem.? ?I've measured most of? the transistors out of circuit and replaced with parts as recommended by other posts.? ?
At this point, I've got improved but still not great results. I've checked passives as best I can and I have measured around the transistors a bit.? Obviously trying not to blow anything up with the tight confines of the A2 board.? ? With the supply wires on the left removed to the rest of the unit, general voltages are as follows:?
* +102v which seems decent
* about -82v instead of -100v
* 300v instead of 248v, if it were tubes I'd almost expect this with an unloaded supply but I don't think I do expect it here.? * -1.5v instead of -12.6v.? ?
Acknowledging the dependencies between supplies, I'm starting at the -100v supply since +100 looks "ok" (for now at least).??
In the affected supplies, I "believe" all transistors and resistors are good but some of the zeners measure a little funky (maybe).??
Looking for guidance or advice to break down the problem a bit and work through it.? ? ?
TIA, Bill - WW1H?
|
Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
Hi Peter, I too am quite familiar with design and manufacturing, as that fed me over most of my 45 year career as an EE. I have designed and deployed many custom programmed devices. I know exactly how easy, or hard, it is to program them. As a few examples, all of my smartphones run highly customized versions of Android. All of my routers run highly customized versions of linux... As do all of my CNC controllers. I also know that I get folks asking me how to program devices using their jtag ports, and they never succeed, in spite of how easy it seems to me. This isn't like replacing an alternator, or doing a brake job on a car! Manufacturers that want to stay in business, need to get their electronics built cheaply, and that often means China. China's national sport is stealing IP from western companies, so, smart companies keep their IP as far away from China as they can. That usually involves building their circuit boards in China, and programming the firmware/hardware at home. If they were to let the right-to-repair crowd have the files that were used to program their boards, they might as well just shutter their businesses. China would quickly flood the market with counterfeits... Made in the same factories as the originals. [I believe that Siglent is an example of what happened when HP was careless with their IP around a Chinese manufacturer they used for a while.] If prettied up documentation, schematics, and easily available firmware were important to the market, the market would step in and provide alternatives that provided those services. Thus far, only a very tiny open source hardware movement exists, and it makes no significant products. In one case, over at the HP80 group, a small group of open source hardware advocates produced an accessory board for HP8X computers. Before they could fill all of the orders from the original group of supporters, a Chinese supplier had already copied their work and was selling on ebay for a fraction of their costs. Same thing happened with the uSDX software defined ham radios... The list goes on and on... -Chuck Harris On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 08:04:07 -0400 "Peter Gottlieb" <hpnpilot@...> wrote: I don't agree that programming a custom chip is difficult.? Chip
programmers are cheap and plentiful on the market and common with
hobbyists.
What may be uneconomical for a manufacturer might be very economical
in a repair situation.
Take two examples:
A manufacturer considers it uneconomical to repair a PCB, but they
have no stock of replacement boards.? This forces the customer to
purchase an entirely new instrument instead of repairing what might
be a simple fault.? This might be a win for the manufacturer but the
customer sees it as a costly loss.
An aerospace or military customer has approved test procedures which
involve very specific pieces of test equipment which are no longer
supported.? Changing the procedures would be enormously expensive due
to the approval process, far in excess of the cost of new equipment.
The manufacturing processes themselves may be easier than they seem.
For example replacing a BGA part on a modern PCB seems to be a
daunting maybe impossible task but with the right equipment and
skills even sidewalk vendors in some Chinese cities can do it
successfully right there in front of you in a few minutes.
Sure, I've repaired many pieces of equipment without any service info
but it can be hit or miss.? Most frequently, and for most people, the
difference between repairable and not is that of documentation.
Peter
|
Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
I think this sums up the difference between an enthusiast/hobby activity and a commercial organisation which only wishes to sell you new items or protect its IP. ? When there are less cost/time constraints or the instrument has bits of unobtainium in it then it is commendable and sometimes surprising the private individual will go to in an effort to restore or maintain a piece of equipment. ? I can admit to being in a broadly similar situation right now with equipment that may one day want to be resurrected. ? I will do my level best to retain as much as is practical but some (quite a lot of it) has to go¡ We have a quite large inventory of cards for equipment which are about to be thinned out (going to recycling) and at the same time I am keen to ensure that a sufficient quantity of parts will be kept for the foreseeable future (just in case) meanwhile satisfying the management decree to downsize/reduce etc. etc. ? I know from experience that once the items are gone we¡¯ll have an urgent requirement for some long lost part ¨C so some careful reclamation/part harvesting of old memory chips and the like will happen before the cards reach the recycling bins. ? Unfortunately gone are the days where the beautifully produced tech manuals and servicing diagrams from the likes of HP, Tek, Marconi and others were produced, but as already been said by other contributors on this forum, the large investment in a tech pubs team means that the bean counters won¡¯t stand for it. As such, the barest minimum to produce an item is made available to ¡®in-house only¡¯ or selected external operations for most IP. ? The analogy with cars is very well made ¨C years ago, us older generation would service our cars brakes and do the plugs and points ourselves. Because of the complexity in the electronics in our vehicles, nowadays you pay the earth for a ¡®technician¡¯ to plug it in to some box that says ¡¯change xyz item¡¯, of course you still pay for all the parts he uses but doesn¡¯t fix the fault, as they will get fitted then removed and the original item put back on in many cases if it doesn¡¯t fix it.. But the customer still pay¡ ? Rant mode = Off. ? Nigel ? ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave B via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 5:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics? With enough tenacity even at home you can repair stuff that you wouldn't believe possible. Here's a picture of a 2mm square pressure sensor with 10 SMD pads hidden underneath, I had to fit this to a pcb and no way had a solder stencil. So I bought some 0.3mm BGA solder balls and carefully placed one on each pad. I then reflowed them in my homebrew (sandwich toaster) reflow oven. Turned the chip over and rubbed it on some plain A4 paper to level all the tops of the balls, then placed it on the pcb and reflowed it into place.
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Re: What happened to HP/Agilent detailed circuit schematics
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 07:52:01AM -0700, Matt Harris wrote: Could you imagine the outrage if, say, Ford required NDAs to be signed by independent repair facilities (or even backyard mechanics) just to be able to purchase the instructions, gaskets, and the special tool required to align the camshaft to the crankshaft in order to replace the head gaskets on their engines? You haven't tried to flash an auto related module recently I take it? You may not need an NDA but you do need $$$. As more of the functionality moves to software the ability to modify, change or fix it resides with the manufacturer. The economics drive it and there's not much you can do about it. I have a very nice Wavetek/Wandel Goltermann network cable analyzer. That division got bought out by Ideal and discontinued. So if that ever breaks (actually when) I'm out $3k with no option to repair. That's the way it is. That's why, as far as possible, I try to stick with instruments from the 80s and early 90s with documentation and support groups. Some things have improved a great deal, but most actual measurements haven't changed much. And when things break I can generally fix them. Paul -- Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
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Re: OT MathCad 7 Professional
Hi, Peter (and others),
??? Another good source for 'Abandonware' is vetusware.com. In fact, I found a downloadable for MathCAD 7 pro.
??? I hope that helps.
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On 27-Aug-24 07:58, peter bunge wrote: Asking for a friend, his words:
About 30 years ago I started using MathCAD for most of my calculations.
It used standard algebraic display of equations - which after Fortran
seemed so easy ....
I eventually got MathCAD 7 for use with my consulting work? - Was great !
Many years later, I bought MathCAD 13 - and found - to my dismay - that
they (Mathsoft) had not made it backward compatible !
All my old files needed to be seriously modified!? ---- So I stayed with
Version 7 .
My MathCAD 7 was the "standard" version - not the "Professional" version
- although both used the same manual !
Some functions were not available in my standard version - in
particular, "DO" loops !
I managed for years without them --- but then, about 3 years ago, my
requirement for large iterative calculations got to be basically
impossible using my "work-arounds".
I am 82 years old - and not keen to learn a whole new language --- so I
wondered if I could buy an old "used" version of? Mathcad 7
"professional" ? Is such a thing done?
I would hope to put it on my Windows 10 system computer - just the way I
did with my old, standard, MathCAD 7 version.
??With my old standard version, I simply transferred the old file into
the new computer, using the same file file structure, onto the C drive
of the new machine - and it worked !
No fancy installation with codes and passwords required - I was amazed !
If anyone can help me to acquire? the "Professional" version, I`m happy
to pay for the? file and the service. Ron.
Failing that can anyone suggest a modern software package with an easy learning curve to replace the MathCad 7 Professional?
Preferably something without being locked into passwords, auto-billing, and endless updates that prevent work being done (like Microsoft's products).
Bear in mind all his old files will have to be edited.
I realize this is likely to open a can of worms so please be objective to the requirements.
PeterB
--
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin@...
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
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Dave McGuire
Frank Mashockie
Bruce Lane