I've downloaded over 100 daabooks without a? problem. I'd never seen this before today
Where are these?? All I could see are books which can be "borrowed" for an hour
and only read on their secure reader, or downloaded in encrypted form to only be
read on a DRM-compliant reader.
It is literally easier to go to a technical library and look through the books
and compile a list manually into your laptop part by part than use
to see anything.
On 6/22/2024 3:49 PM, Michael A. Terrell via wrote:
> <> has scans of thousands of old
> dtatabooks that you cn dowload as text orPDF. There is also Bitsavers and? a
> website that scans old databooks and engineering texts.
>
> I'm in my 70s, so I know that I don't have time to cull informationon millions
> of parts. The fonts used in older books are not handled well? by the scan to
> text tools that I've used. Paperport for Windows 95 had the fewest errors, but
> it is on a computer with a damaged power connector on the motherboard. I can't
> see well enough to do the required repairs. I sit about three innches from a
> 24" monitor? and use an 18 point font in bold to edit the test conversions. I
> miss being able to work eight or more hours a day troublesooting and repairing
> electronics. I started at 13, in the mid '60s when vacuum tubes were still
> commmon.
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:07?PM Peter Gottlieb via
> <> <hpnpilot=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
>? ? ?I have some older DATA reference books for diodes and transistors which give
>? ? ?basic info for a huge number of parts.? I don't know if they ever had an
>? ? ?electronic version before quitting publication.
>
>? ? ?I would put a little time into this if it were an open source resource which
>? ? ?could help many people.
>
>? ? ?Peter
>
>
>? ? ?On 6/22/2024 7:33 AM, Michael A. Terrell via <>
>? ? ?wrote:
>? ? ?> I'm consdering putting it up on Github, where others can help me? by
>? ? ?offering
>? ? ?> generic numbers? they have used. I find some HP parts in the NSN system,
>? ? ?but
>? ? ?> they are being dropped as the government retires models that use them. Many
>? ? ?> have a list of alternate parts, and limited data in the description.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?> I have a list of some Heathkit parts that were supplied to vocational
>? ? ?> electronics students. The parts accumulated at a local school from students
>? ? ?> that didn't finish the course. It's in HTML? It was on my old Earthlink
>? ? ?websiite
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?> On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:22?AM tgerbic via
>? ? ?<> <>
>? ? ?> <tgerbic=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>? ? ?Michael,
>? ? ?>? ? ?Your a real glutton for punishment...
>? ? ?>? ? ?I started out on a mission to make a parts cross reference for Heathkit
>? ? ?>? ? ?parts.? I started out on my own 40 years ago with a little list
>? ? ?based off
>? ? ?>? ? ?equipment I owned. I added to it from time to time. A few years ago I
>? ? ?>? ? ?decided to put some real effort into the most comprehensive cross
>? ? ?>? ? ?reference list I could make.? I pulled all parts lists I could find from
>? ? ?>? ? ?any source on the web. I searched dozens of repair forums, club
>? ? ?write-ups,
>? ? ?>? ? ?blogs, test equipment forums, ham radio forums, assembly manuals,
>? ? ?circuit
>? ? ?>? ? ?descriptions, and keyword searches through several search engines. Got a
>? ? ?>? ? ?pretty good amount of varied info into a spreadsheet. Next was the
>? ? ?hardest
>? ? ?>? ? ?part, completing the part substitution work. It is pretty good after a
>? ? ?>? ? ?couple of years work. But...
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>? ? ?I seem to have hit an end point where I just cannot go any further. I
>? ? ?>? ? ?think you may hit the same thing.
>? ? ?>? ? ?- Manufacturer part specs that were never scanned and cannot be found on
>? ? ?>? ? ?the net.
>? ? ?>? ? ?- Paper specs and databooks that don't seem to exist anywhere.
>? ? ?>? ? ?- Part numbers that cannot be looked up, or are reused for other parts.
>? ? ?>? ? ?- Incomplete part numbers that defy guessing the prefixes.
>? ? ?>? ? ?- Parts that are just common names or simple descriptions (maybe not so
>? ? ?>? ? ?bad for HP).
>? ? ?>? ? ?- Then there are parts that do substitute but are unobtainable and a
>? ? ?>? ? ?second level substitution cannot be found.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>? ? ?I ran into lots of problems with the Heathkit list. I should have
>? ? ?started
>? ? ?>? ? ?this spreadsheet 30 years ago. It may be easier for some parts of the HP
>? ? ?>? ? ?list and things like the availability of some info on microfiche will
>? ? ?>? ? ?help. Heath ran things pretty fast and loose. I think there will
>? ? ?always be
>? ? ?>? ? ?HP part numbers that don't have enough info to easily match. Close
>? ? ?enough
>? ? ?>? ? ?may work for a lot of parts. Just having an industry cross, even if not
>? ? ?>? ? ?available will be helpful. Having been through one experience shows
>? ? ?me the
>? ? ?>? ? ?value of a comprehensive list and the difficulty of creating one.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>? ? ?It would be good to get others to contribute and spread around the work,
>? ? ?>? ? ?but I found it is very hard to get anyone interested.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>? ? ?I am currently trying to finish up the Data I/O Unisite family device
>? ? ?>? ? ?support list (software revisions, footprints, device notes, adapters,
>? ? ?>? ? ?etc.).? A mind numbing amount of work.? This may be the last time I take
>? ? ?>? ? ?on one of these projects.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>? ? ?Good luck on your adventure. It is going to be a lot of work.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>? ? ?--
>? ? ?>? ? ?T. Gerbic
>? ? ?>? ? ?Central California
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: HP 400H AC VTVM Difficulties
Greetings to Dave and the Group:
?? I apologize for not getting back to y'all sooner, but other events have intervened.?? I started to post some intermediate results, but my post went off into la-la land and I didn't feel up to re-typing it, so I just waited for all the parts to get here and then did the shotgun thing.
?? I believe that I have solved the problem.?? So, I will pass along what I did; perhaps it will work for others.?? Also, I will enumerate the booby-trap that caused me to go barking up the wrong tree.
?? The first thing I did was look at the 6CB6 in the V1 position.?? I noted that the whole instrument was highly microphonic, so I chased that for quite a while before I compared the failed and good instruments and decided that the microphonics were characteristic of the design.?? I swapped V1 for another 6CB6 in the same instrument without affecting the noise or the microphonic behavior, so I went on to other things.?? After replacing all of the large red paper capacitors with modern 630 volt yellow caps from Just Radios, I discovered that the problem was still there.
?? I then decided to get out a reasonable number of 6CB6 tubes from stock, including another HP branded used tube.?? I then proceeded to try various tubes in the V1 position.?? It turns out that the 6CB6 used in the V1 position must be selected in test for proper behavior.?? The two HP branded tubes (the original and another used one from stock) exhibited the worst behavior.?? The best behaved tube was a used old-label RCA.?? However, none of them completely cured the intermittent noise spikes.
?? I then bit the bullet and completely rebuilt the range switch... not a task for the faint of heart.?? I used all new yelow film caps and replaced all of the carbon composition resistors with modern film types.?? Only the original HP precision wire-wound resistors and one Erie tubular ceramic capacitor were left in place.
?? After the range switch rebuild, I again tried tube swapping.?? The HP tubes were as usual... terrible.?? The RCA still exhibited a bit of occasional flicking of the meter needle, but after running the instrument for about 15 minutes, it settled down.?? I then went back through a couple of my other 6CB6's and found that some which I had decided earlier were still a bit too noisy actually settled down with a fair amount of "burn-in" time.
?? So... the instrument now appears to behave normally so all I have to do now is figure out how to calibrate it.?? The moral of the story is to obtain a half dozen or so 6CB6's and try them one at a time, allowing each to age for at least half an hour.?? If you can't find a tube that calms the instrument down, and you are certain all the large paper caps in the main chassis are OK, then gird up your loins and re-build the range switch.??
?? The big take-away, however, is that V1 MUST be selected in test from a reasonably sized pool of tubes.
Good Luck
--
Jim Thorusen
KB6GM
|
Where are these?? All I could see are books which can be "borrowed" for an hour and only read on their secure reader, or downloaded in encrypted form to only be read on a DRM-compliant reader.
It is literally easier to go to a technical library and look through the books and compile a list manually into your laptop part by part than use archive.org to see anything.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 6/22/2024 3:49 PM, Michael A. Terrell via groups.io wrote: www.archive.org <> has scans of thousands of old dtatabooks that you cn dowload as text orPDF. There is also Bitsavers and? a website that scans old databooks and engineering texts.
I'm in my 70s, so I know that I don't have time to cull informationon millions of parts. The fonts used in older books are not handled well? by the scan to text tools that I've used. Paperport for Windows 95 had the fewest errors, but it is on a computer with a damaged power connector on the motherboard. I can't see well enough to do the required repairs. I sit about three innches from a 24" monitor? and use an 18 point font in bold to edit the test conversions. I miss being able to work eight or more hours a day troublesooting and repairing electronics. I started at 13, in the mid '60s when vacuum tubes were still commmon.
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:07?PM Peter Gottlieb via groups.io <> <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
I have some older DATA reference books for diodes and transistors which give
basic info for a huge number of parts.? I don't know if they ever had an
electronic version before quitting publication.
I would put a little time into this if it were an open source resource which
could help many people.
Peter
On 6/22/2024 7:33 AM, Michael A. Terrell via groups.io <>
wrote:
> I'm consdering putting it up on Github, where others can help me? by
offering
> generic numbers? they have used. I find some HP parts in the NSN system,
but
> they are being dropped as the government retires models that use them. Many
> have a list of alternate parts, and limited data in the description.
>
> I have a list of some Heathkit parts that were supplied to vocational
> electronics students. The parts accumulated at a local school from students
> that didn't finish the course. It's in HTML? It was on my old Earthlink
websiite
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:22?AM tgerbic via groups.io
<> <>
> <tgerbic@...> wrote:
>
>? ? ?Michael,
>? ? ?Your a real glutton for punishment...
>? ? ?I started out on a mission to make a parts cross reference for Heathkit
>? ? ?parts.? I started out on my own 40 years ago with a little list
based off
>? ? ?equipment I owned. I added to it from time to time. A few years ago I
>? ? ?decided to put some real effort into the most comprehensive cross
>? ? ?reference list I could make.? I pulled all parts lists I could find from
>? ? ?any source on the web. I searched dozens of repair forums, club
write-ups,
>? ? ?blogs, test equipment forums, ham radio forums, assembly manuals,
circuit
>? ? ?descriptions, and keyword searches through several search engines. Got a
>? ? ?pretty good amount of varied info into a spreadsheet. Next was the
hardest
>? ? ?part, completing the part substitution work. It is pretty good after a
>? ? ?couple of years work. But...
>
>? ? ?I seem to have hit an end point where I just cannot go any further. I
>? ? ?think you may hit the same thing.
>? ? ?- Manufacturer part specs that were never scanned and cannot be found on
>? ? ?the net.
>? ? ?- Paper specs and databooks that don't seem to exist anywhere.
>? ? ?- Part numbers that cannot be looked up, or are reused for other parts.
>? ? ?- Incomplete part numbers that defy guessing the prefixes.
>? ? ?- Parts that are just common names or simple descriptions (maybe not so
>? ? ?bad for HP).
>? ? ?- Then there are parts that do substitute but are unobtainable and a
>? ? ?second level substitution cannot be found.
>
>? ? ?I ran into lots of problems with the Heathkit list. I should have
started
>? ? ?this spreadsheet 30 years ago. It may be easier for some parts of the HP
>? ? ?list and things like the availability of some info on microfiche will
>? ? ?help. Heath ran things pretty fast and loose. I think there will
always be
>? ? ?HP part numbers that don't have enough info to easily match. Close
enough
>? ? ?may work for a lot of parts. Just having an industry cross, even if not
>? ? ?available will be helpful. Having been through one experience shows
me the
>? ? ?value of a comprehensive list and the difficulty of creating one.
>
>? ? ?It would be good to get others to contribute and spread around the work,
>? ? ?but I found it is very hard to get anyone interested.
>
>? ? ?I am currently trying to finish up the Data I/O Unisite family device
>? ? ?support list (software revisions, footprints, device notes, adapters,
>? ? ?etc.).? A mind numbing amount of work.? This may be the last time I take
>? ? ?on one of these projects.
>
>? ? ?Good luck on your adventure. It is going to be a lot of work.
>
>? ? ?--
>? ? ?T. Gerbic
>? ? ?Central California
>
>
|
8753C Sampler Replacement?
I just picked up an 8753C, and it turns out Port "A" is bad. I verified this by swapping the A5 and A6 cards, and the problem moved to Port "B".?
On the "C" model, is it necessary to calibrate the VNA after replacing one of the sampler cards (mine are all marked 5086-7413 on the sampler)? Or is that only on the "A" and "B" models? The manual seems a bit unclear on this.
Hoping this is "savable" as it's a super clean unit with an LCD upgrade, but I can't justify the cost of a lab calibration, nor do I have nearly the equipment to do so.?
Thanks!?
|
Michael,
I would like to see your list for Heathkit. My Heathkit list might also be useful to look up some of the less exotic part replacements for the HP list.
Peter,
I think I have all the DATA, IC Master, SK, ECG, Philips and Towers generic reference books that have appeared on the web, plus some books in paper form.
I also have hundreds of Motorola, Linear, National, Burr Brown, Dallas, Raytheon, RCA, Ferranti, Harris, etc. scanned data books. Always looking for something new to allow me to find parts to finish my Heathkit list and look up hard to find parts for my uses and for help on forums like this. There are a lot of scanned books/collections out there but not all in one place. There are lots of one or two page replacement/data sheets on the web but not organized in any way either. Google does not index everything so other search engines may be needed to look up hard to find parts.
--
T. Gerbic
Central California
|
archive.org also accepts physical donations: On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 3:49?PM Michael A. Terrell via groups.io <terrell.michael.a@...> wrote:
www.archive.org has scans of thousands of old dtatabooks that you cn dowload as text orPDF. There is also Bitsavers and a website that scans old databooks and engineering texts.
I'm in my 70s, so I know that I don't have time to cull informationon millions of parts. The fonts used in older books are not handled well by the scan to text tools that I've used. Paperport for Windows 95 had the fewest errors, but it is on a computer with a damaged power connector on the motherboard. I can't see well enough to do the required repairs. I sit about three innches from a 24" monitor and use an 18 point font in bold to edit the test conversions. I miss being able to work eight or more hours a day troublesooting and repairing electronics. I started at 13, in the mid '60s when vacuum tubes were still commmon.
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:07?PM Peter Gottlieb via groups.io <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
I have some older DATA reference books for diodes and transistors which give
basic info for a huge number of parts. I don't know if they ever had an
electronic version before quitting publication.
I would put a little time into this if it were an open source resource which
could help many people.
Peter
On 6/22/2024 7:33 AM, Michael A. Terrell via groups.io wrote:
I'm consdering putting it up on Github, where others can help me by offering
generic numbers they have used. I find some HP parts in the NSN system, but
they are being dropped as the government retires models that use them. Many
have a list of alternate parts, and limited data in the description.
I have a list of some Heathkit parts that were supplied to vocational
electronics students. The parts accumulated at a local school from students
that didn't finish the course. It's in HTML It was on my old Earthlink websiite
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:22?AM tgerbic via groups.io <>
<tgerbic@...> wrote:
Michael,
Your a real glutton for punishment...
I started out on a mission to make a parts cross reference for Heathkit
parts. I started out on my own 40 years ago with a little list based off
equipment I owned. I added to it from time to time. A few years ago I
decided to put some real effort into the most comprehensive cross
reference list I could make. I pulled all parts lists I could find from
any source on the web. I searched dozens of repair forums, club write-ups,
blogs, test equipment forums, ham radio forums, assembly manuals, circuit
descriptions, and keyword searches through several search engines. Got a
pretty good amount of varied info into a spreadsheet. Next was the hardest
part, completing the part substitution work. It is pretty good after a
couple of years work. But...
I seem to have hit an end point where I just cannot go any further. I
think you may hit the same thing.
- Manufacturer part specs that were never scanned and cannot be found on
the net.
- Paper specs and databooks that don't seem to exist anywhere.
- Part numbers that cannot be looked up, or are reused for other parts.
- Incomplete part numbers that defy guessing the prefixes.
- Parts that are just common names or simple descriptions (maybe not so
bad for HP).
- Then there are parts that do substitute but are unobtainable and a
second level substitution cannot be found.
I ran into lots of problems with the Heathkit list. I should have started
this spreadsheet 30 years ago. It may be easier for some parts of the HP
list and things like the availability of some info on microfiche will
help. Heath ran things pretty fast and loose. I think there will always be
HP part numbers that don't have enough info to easily match. Close enough
may work for a lot of parts. Just having an industry cross, even if not
available will be helpful. Having been through one experience shows me the
value of a comprehensive list and the difficulty of creating one.
It would be good to get others to contribute and spread around the work,
but I found it is very hard to get anyone interested.
I am currently trying to finish up the Data I/O Unisite family device
support list (software revisions, footprints, device notes, adapters,
etc.). A mind numbing amount of work. This may be the last time I take
on one of these projects.
Good luck on your adventure. It is going to be a lot of work.
--
T. Gerbic
Central California
-- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2 mQENBFYy4RYBCAC183JomLtbdAlcKiaPDoVHq52LDmVmH75aiEc69m7YxDt54/ai VtYCAobbGVIyn3Hlz3uhF6LnPl/6Lm1VdnCfpwu3KQhCO6ds10ow2C30X4ohCqOd hCVg5C+ILmQkEffFrFODy3ji+PYTF4pADvHCWsTMv0hf0llwFOJsBCK6cl02IffE JPqy4PjM1nZ9HpzT84JBaG/4OGvTZ8SQ2yFUl265jagvygPTf88H1xpZHH1r8dB1 stjUHLmPH8AOyDgKxFchgGeDc3p/vJtgDDIXAFfDXG0NSRovLmtaQdGxe47Zf/go bXiEM7YL2WqQe5zfEA919JxkEwlDKYniOSVzABEBAAG0N0V2YW4gRm9zcyAoVGhp cyBpcyBteSBwdWJsaWMga2V5LikgPGV2YW5mb3NzQGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JATkEEwEC ACMFAlYy4RYCGwMHCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCIpQTcE8nN bbBaCACAm8pU5lG1ev2Fsw68Axtcl57SJrYieqX96c3YuYH9JpqMqJRnd9nDKw9X tQuvuH7tUk0VbOaDqReOYJVI/4c5wb9AaOFp6K2DUcupq6XhgXpvz3HzoPwjAdIj XuQzdRUx5+innTJrSkGuBYW/CZ2zqEx4xfLlq4rO0hoTUMR8QVp2cCrkw6BT0m86 APIw/ZnjoxM8IEzr7MxfRIg3qpzrZk28rmhx+k78Jyk61UhwcCPGIm/pjUopTwYJ 3YBdRB2cYD2aN7A1JVf5cRmSQYooHBGpH0kYvomGk97PKqypVuJ7OpG9xM58wUcC qUVt9hKlePLzP8csYjt8onqI7qIIuQENBFYy4RYBCADlH8spG3WkCx62vB5mr5Z0 SCDd/RcyA4A5y5EOj5KurQkrSWpgi9Ho1yKruMJ6blQR2qkc66KqH9pnXDm/ZI1M K/wdW3ngETxBmXoozzFMT89aEWIVR5/PFodWK1elekE9iJxACuR98Zg2QttTD3x8 A9w8VEyMLOXcDTrPFpHegMKswFBg5iuMulAdXAoGejWTI3n+qKFpabHm2Lfs6wjk 5rjucpTdeFK6UeWF1xAvNxXibuu5BlGwv53930qIXRwO/Gn2Rh5DXWxKU2fEIme/ xgQQmIsDeUoWbfybdjw/x7Q0LW4mINiLDQcGHHRQKFIxbAJCT3USPLGh5xwE9/Er ABEBAAGJAR8EGAECAAkFAlYy4RYCGwwACgkQiKUE3BPJzW0uYAf9Hf30n8tM3mR2 Zo6ESE0ivgdgjaJtAWrBUx7JzAzPjBnBOlNnu5Y9lVEqetvUPH6e3PvaHYUuaUU8 0HwxuKBW9nUprgV6uIu1DZmlcp+SxpbuCy7RDpNocRLNWWFMaYYzznmTgfnTgD4D gCq8Mf1mcfrluTkOAo+QNqbMfl1GISClopRqxVuAo59ewgMnFujwgd8w12BwWl24 CzqOs5HqcUslePj+LzcjSNgVCklYwKl+0dsb/fctMOCtHodwqm2CBJ+zydvNmYkD fxda/J91Z1xrah5ec++FL0L4vs+jCiIWJeupJFKlr1hCMZiiGH7W554loK5l4jv3 EY347EidAw== =Ta4p -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
|
has scans of thousands of old dtatabooks that you cn dowload as text orPDF. There is also Bitsavers and? a website that scans old databooks and engineering texts.
I'm in my 70s, so I know that I don't have time to cull informationon millions of parts. The fonts used in older books are not handled well? by the scan to text tools that I've used. Paperport for Windows 95 had the fewest errors, but it is on a computer with a damaged power connector on the motherboard. I can't see well enough to do the required repairs. I sit about three innches from a 24" monitor? and use an 18 point font in bold to edit the test conversions. I miss being able to work eight or more hours a day troublesooting and repairing electronics. I started at 13, in the mid '60s when vacuum tubes were still commmon.
I have some older DATA reference books for diodes and transistors which give
basic info for a huge number of parts.? I don't know if they ever had an
electronic version before quitting publication.
I would put a little time into this if it were an open source resource which
could help many people.
Peter
On 6/22/2024 7:33 AM, Michael A. Terrell via wrote:
> I'm consdering putting it up on Github, where others can help me? by offering
> generic numbers? they have used. I find some HP parts in the NSN system, but
> they are being dropped as the government retires models that use them. Many
> have a list of alternate parts, and limited data in the description.
>
> I have a list of some Heathkit parts that were supplied to vocational
> electronics students. The parts accumulated at a local school from students
> that didn't finish the course. It's in HTML? It was on my old Earthlink websiite
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:22?AM tgerbic via <>
> <tgerbic=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
>? ? ?Michael,
>? ? ?Your a real glutton for punishment...
>? ? ?I started out on a mission to make a parts cross reference for Heathkit
>? ? ?parts.? I started out on my own 40 years ago with a little list based off
>? ? ?equipment I owned. I added to it from time to time. A few years ago I
>? ? ?decided to put some real effort into the most comprehensive cross
>? ? ?reference list I could make.? I pulled all parts lists I could find from
>? ? ?any source on the web. I searched dozens of repair forums, club write-ups,
>? ? ?blogs, test equipment forums, ham radio forums, assembly manuals, circuit
>? ? ?descriptions, and keyword searches through several search engines. Got a
>? ? ?pretty good amount of varied info into a spreadsheet. Next was the hardest
>? ? ?part, completing the part substitution work. It is pretty good after a
>? ? ?couple of years work. But...
>
>? ? ?I seem to have hit an end point where I just cannot go any further. I
>? ? ?think you may hit the same thing.
>? ? ?- Manufacturer part specs that were never scanned and cannot be found on
>? ? ?the net.
>? ? ?- Paper specs and databooks that don't seem to exist anywhere.
>? ? ?- Part numbers that cannot be looked up, or are reused for other parts.
>? ? ?- Incomplete part numbers that defy guessing the prefixes.
>? ? ?- Parts that are just common names or simple descriptions (maybe not so
>? ? ?bad for HP).
>? ? ?- Then there are parts that do substitute but are unobtainable and a
>? ? ?second level substitution cannot be found.
>
>? ? ?I ran into lots of problems with the Heathkit list.? I should have started
>? ? ?this spreadsheet 30 years ago. It may be easier for some parts of the HP
>? ? ?list and things like the availability of some info on microfiche will
>? ? ?help. Heath ran things pretty fast and loose. I think there will always be
>? ? ?HP part numbers that don't have enough info to easily match. Close enough
>? ? ?may work for a lot of parts. Just having an industry cross, even if not
>? ? ?available will be helpful. Having been through one experience shows me the
>? ? ?value of a comprehensive list and the difficulty of creating one.
>
>? ? ?It would be good to get others to contribute and spread around the work,
>? ? ?but I found it is very hard to get anyone interested.
>
>? ? ?I am currently trying to finish up the Data I/O Unisite family device
>? ? ?support list (software revisions, footprints, device notes, adapters,
>? ? ?etc.).? A mind numbing amount of work.? This may be the last time I take
>? ? ?on one of these projects.
>
>? ? ?Good luck on your adventure. It is going to be a lot of work.
>
>? ? ?--
>? ? ?T. Gerbic
>? ? ?Central California
>
>
|
Or maybe he should have said "The quantum frontier"..
|
4. Those who are interested in pushing the envelope because it is an interesting subject in its own right.
Pushing your measurement standards in general is an excellent learning experience.
Ok.. it got me owning 3 GPSDO (2 Samsung UCCM telco surplus and a Furuno unit), an dual Efratom FRK-HLN Rb (from a mobile military satlink station) complete with GPSDO, battery backup units, dual power, distrib amps, 6U worth of fun for €75! yet another Efratom, this time a FRK-LN (hamfest find, dead, since repaired, €15). And recently a Meinberg M300 DCF-77 referenced unit entered the shack (€0, gift of my then employer).
So.... just as you typically do not need 'tons' of DMM, or multiple SA, or multiple scopes (ok, 2, one analog and a digital one) you also do not typically need more than one decent GPSDO and a distrib amp for your in your lab/shack. But still... why not?
Wilko
|
I have some older DATA reference books for diodes and transistors which give basic info for a huge number of parts.? I don't know if they ever had an electronic version before quitting publication.
I would put a little time into this if it were an open source resource which could help many people.
Peter
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 6/22/2024 7:33 AM, Michael A. Terrell via groups.io wrote: I'm consdering putting it up on Github, where others can help me? by offering generic numbers? they have used. I find some HP parts in the NSN system, but they are being dropped as the government retires models that use them. Many have a list of alternate parts, and limited data in the description.
I have a list of some Heathkit parts that were supplied to vocational electronics students. The parts accumulated at a local school from students that didn't finish the course. It's in HTML? It was on my old Earthlink websiite
On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:22?AM tgerbic via groups.io <> <tgerbic@...> wrote:
Michael,
Your a real glutton for punishment...
I started out on a mission to make a parts cross reference for Heathkit
parts.? I started out on my own 40 years ago with a little list based off
equipment I owned. I added to it from time to time. A few years ago I
decided to put some real effort into the most comprehensive cross
reference list I could make.? I pulled all parts lists I could find from
any source on the web. I searched dozens of repair forums, club write-ups,
blogs, test equipment forums, ham radio forums, assembly manuals, circuit
descriptions, and keyword searches through several search engines. Got a
pretty good amount of varied info into a spreadsheet. Next was the hardest
part, completing the part substitution work. It is pretty good after a
couple of years work. But...
I seem to have hit an end point where I just cannot go any further. I
think you may hit the same thing.
- Manufacturer part specs that were never scanned and cannot be found on
the net.
- Paper specs and databooks that don't seem to exist anywhere.
- Part numbers that cannot be looked up, or are reused for other parts.
- Incomplete part numbers that defy guessing the prefixes.
- Parts that are just common names or simple descriptions (maybe not so
bad for HP).
- Then there are parts that do substitute but are unobtainable and a
second level substitution cannot be found.
I ran into lots of problems with the Heathkit list.? I should have started
this spreadsheet 30 years ago. It may be easier for some parts of the HP
list and things like the availability of some info on microfiche will
help. Heath ran things pretty fast and loose. I think there will always be
HP part numbers that don't have enough info to easily match. Close enough
may work for a lot of parts. Just having an industry cross, even if not
available will be helpful. Having been through one experience shows me the
value of a comprehensive list and the difficulty of creating one.
It would be good to get others to contribute and spread around the work,
but I found it is very hard to get anyone interested.
I am currently trying to finish up the Data I/O Unisite family device
support list (software revisions, footprints, device notes, adapters,
etc.).? A mind numbing amount of work.? This may be the last time I take
on one of these projects.
Good luck on your adventure. It is going to be a lot of work.
--
T. Gerbic
Central California
|
I have been using an inexpensive Thunderbolt GPSDO (like this: ) for the past 10 years.? I run Lady Heather every so often to check that all is ok.? It has been solid as a rock.? I have a comparator to a local Rb module which I check every 6 months or so and before I want to calibrate something to this setup and it has been totally solid.
I built a small distribution amplifier from a kit where I got many of the parts but can't remember where I found it.? I still have a spare board and major parts somewhere.? That too was really cheap.
You don't need to spend thousands of dollars; a few hundred and you will have incredible accuracy.
What really made it work well was to have a high quality commercial amplified GPS antenna placed way up on my roof, on a 4 foot piece of PVC pipe and clamped onto a vent pipe and totally in the clear, to get excellent satellite visibility.? My roof is very high and steep but the roofers were happy to install it when I had the roof redone back then.
The GPS signal is so strong I put a passive splitter inline and also feed a tiny network time server a friend gifted me.? It uses both GPS and the Russian satellites.
Mission Control time and frequency capabilities for less than than the cost of a one night stay in a big city hotel.
Peter
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 6/22/2024 4:47 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via groups.io wrote: Years ago I took care of a scrapped HP 5065A, an old Rb standard with an Rb cavity that had a short circuit in the Tx cavity heater winding.
(a common problem). Repaired it and put it into service. Then, the rest of the instrument started to fall apart. I think I have replaced
a majority of all discrete semiconductor devices in it over the years.
At one moment, the repaired Rb cavity failed, this time an open circuit in the magnetic field winding.
I managed to find another scrapped 5065 where the cavity was intact. Inserted that one and after a few months it failed too.
Fixed that one and then went about to upgrade the photo cell input amplifier, improved the low voltage regulator,
copied an HP integrator update, etc. etc. (Some of the efforts can be found on KO4BB in the 5065A folder) .
When the electricity bills skyrocketed a few years ago and the local power company could not keep up with all power outages, I shut down the 5065A.
I think that no-one in the amateur radio community needs anything better than a good GPS diciplined quarz frequency reference.
I use a late model ?HP105B, a 5087A distribution (configured for 10MHz outputs) and a VE2ZAZ design for GPS control.
A Leo Bodnar would most likely be as good, less expenceive, taking up less space, consuming less AC power.
I do not recommend anyone spending all that energy trying to fix a 5065A unless using it for sentimental reasons.
It is like old vintage cars. They are not vehicles for transportation, they become never ending "projects".
Ulf - SM6GXV
|
On Friday 21 June 2024 08:13:01 pm Peter Gottlieb wrote: Horizontal space?? I don't see any here. Got enough here to hold my coffee cup... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
|
Usually, one has to make a choice of? stability (long and short term) vs phase noise and the manufacturers of exotic items such as a microwave spectrum analyser must have to reach a compromise somewhere.
Almost 50 years ago, a really good OCXO for a spectrum analyser might achieve close to 5e -12 stability over 1-10 seconds or so. It might also achieve <-157dBc/Hz phase noise at 1kHz offset and maybe -160dBc/Hz at 10kHz offset. Other OCXOs can beat this for phase noise by some margin. Eg the Wenzel ULN series.
Here, you are looking at -174dBc/Hz at 1kHz offset. The stability isn't going to be so good but maybe this doesn't matter for some applications. At this offset, it appears to be about 20dB cleaner than the Stanford Rb oscillator for example.
The risk when using a 'one size fits all' external reference (like Rb or GPSDO) is that you can lose out a lot on phase noise (if phase noise is important).
|
On Friday 21 June 2024 07:59:10 pm Jinxie via groups.io wrote: Nice to know I'm not the only person to use every single square inch of horizontal space to dump stuff. That's just the way things work, ain't it? Sure seems to be the case around here, anyway... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
|
Just use a Leo Bodnar precise reference locked to GPS into a FA-3 Frequency counter with OCXO Vectron oven. That thing is ultra stable and after a? tweak on receiving from new, its not moved after a few months? of use. Yes both are on 24hrs? a day.?
Very economical to get extreme accuracy.?
|
Re: VISA problems with ancient test equipment?
Hi Ernst, yes, I received your last email, I will return an answer today with a link for modified program…yesterday was too busy. ? Python 3.10.0 ? Yves ? De?: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io <HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io> De la part de dk1vi via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: 22 juin 2024 06:17
??: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] VISA problems with ancient test equipment? ? Hello Yves,
thanks for the code. Looks pretty simple and understandable to me. Which version of python are you using?
Did you receive my email sent on thursday ? Otherwise please give me an alternative mail address. I desribed my experience with your latest program version.
Have a nice weekend.
Ernst
|
Re: HP3048 data file format?
You should take a look at the KE5FX website as a starting point.
|
The SRS PRS10 rubidium is substantially more expensive than the cheapest working rubidium frequency standards with working examples being 300-500USD rather than 50-150USD.
The PRS10 has very low close in phase noise.
A good use case is a very clean source for a signal generator or a phase noise measurement system.
|
I'm consdering putting it up on Github, where others can help me? by offering generic numbers? they have used. I find some HP parts in the NSN system, but they are being dropped as the government retires models that use them. Many have a list of alternate parts, and limited data in the description.
I have a list of some Heathkit parts that were supplied to vocational electronics students. The parts accumulated at a local school from students that didn't finish the course. It's in HTML? It was on my old Earthlink websiite
Michael,
Your a real glutton for punishment...
I started out on a mission to make a parts cross reference for Heathkit parts.? I started out on my own 40 years ago with a little list based off equipment I owned. I added to it from time to time. A few years ago I decided to put some real effort into the most comprehensive cross reference list I could make.? I pulled all parts lists I could find from any source on the web. I searched dozens of repair forums, club write-ups, blogs, test equipment forums, ham radio forums, assembly manuals, circuit descriptions, and keyword searches through several search engines. Got a pretty good amount of varied info into a spreadsheet. Next was the hardest part, completing the part substitution work. It is pretty good after a couple of years work. But...
I seem to have hit an end point where I just cannot go any further. I think you may hit the same thing.
- Manufacturer part specs that were never scanned and cannot be found on the net.
- Paper specs and databooks that don't seem to exist anywhere.
- Part numbers that cannot be looked up, or are reused for other parts.
- Incomplete part numbers that defy guessing the prefixes.
- Parts that are just common names or simple descriptions (maybe not so bad for HP).
- Then there are parts that do substitute but are unobtainable and a second level substitution cannot be found.
I ran into lots of problems with the Heathkit list.? I should have started this spreadsheet 30 years ago. It may be easier for some parts of the HP list and things like the availability of some info on microfiche will help. Heath ran things pretty fast and loose. I think there will always be HP part numbers that don't have enough info to easily match. Close enough may work for a lot of parts. Just having an industry cross, even if not available will be helpful. Having been through one experience shows me the value of a comprehensive list and the difficulty of creating one.?
It would be good to get others to contribute and spread around the work, but I found it is very hard to get anyone interested.
I am currently trying to finish up the Data I/O Unisite family device support list (software revisions, footprints, device notes, adapters, etc.).? A mind numbing amount of work.? This may be the last time I take on one of these projects.
Good luck on your adventure. It is going to be a lot of work.
--
T. Gerbic
Central California
|
For the vast majority of tasks, it really isn't necessary to have 'absolute' accuracy of the 10MHz reference. I still think that most users would be better off (most of the time) if they simply used a decent OCXO as a master reference if they need to lock two or more instruments together. I've done this in the past with vector sig gens and also when grabbing data from vector sig gens using an RTSA. In this case I use the reference from the RTSA as the master reference and connect it to the sig gen(s). This makes the captured IQ data look more 'conventional' as it won't have frequency offset errors baked into it.
It is generally a good idea to use a master OCXO that has low spurious and low phase noise. So something from a decent spectrum analyser or sig gen should be fine. Using a cheapo GPSDO is going to be risky. The Bodnar GPSDO doesn't appear to have good phase noise performance.? The Stanford Rb standard is better but still not anything special. It definitely doesn't qualify as 'excellent' in terms of spectral purity.
Also, sometimes it is useful (as in intuitive) to see cw signals with subtle frequency offsets beating together on an analyser. This can give insights into what contributes to a cw signal on an analyser. Part of it may come from a sig gen or from the DUT or maybe it is within the analyser itself.?
|
Michael A. Terrell
maxwelloau