¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Date

Re: Interesting power supply issue!

 

Hi Peter,

maybe there is a short circuit in the PS towards its chassis that only reveals itself when screwed to the instrument's chassis?

cheers
Martin


Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

The X-series analyzers have evolved quite a bit since their introduction, as the early versions ran XP, and the newer ones are probably on Win10, maybe 11. That gets into licensing negotiations with uSoft. Even with XP, the EXA, MXA, and PXA were faster and more capable than the PSA.

?

The PSA was faster than the 8566/8568, and had a better display, as well as better dynamic range and speed. Log mag display linearity was no longer an issue as the log amps in the IF were replaced with software log functions. Dynamic range was at least 20 dB better. Amplitude accuracy improved from =/- 1.5 dB or worse to less than .5 dB, almost into power meter territory. ?The limitation of the PSA was that it could not support USB devices very well. Writing thee drivers to accommodate every possible peripheral in the wild, wild west that was USB back then was a lot of work. uS was doing all of that work, so why re-invent the wheel.

?

The EXA/MXA/PXA took a lot of the hardware tech from the PSA and added the speed, memory, peripheral support, and processing horsepower of a modern PC, integral to the machine. Could it have used Linux instead of Windows? Yes, but at the time, Linux did not have the horsepower and peripheral support, among other things. ?

?

Some features that ship standard with every box:

?

More displayed data points, at least 64,000 last I knew were available. No, the LCD won¡¯t show them all but they are all available via GPIB, USB, or LAN ports.

?

Sweep speeds are substantially faster than the 8566/8568.

?

Amplitude accuracy and frequency are much better because of the large amounts of memory, both RAM and disk, which allows calibrating at more points across the range of the box, and applying the corrections immediately.

?

Measurements like channel power and adjacent channel power are available.

?

There are at least 4, traces available, in color, that can use any of 4 or 5 different detectors, so you can compare traces taken simultaneously with different detectors ( Rosenfell, Peak, Neg Peak, Average, and Sample). There are more trace math tricks available than the earlier models.

?

There are, I think, 10 markers available, on each trace. Any marker can be a reference marker and any other marker can be a delta marker to that. Multiple reference and delta markers can exist on the same trace.

?

On board storage of setups, traces, etc. is limited only by the size of the hard disk, which of course have grown larger over time. With the USB and LAN ports, off-board storage is just like you would do on a Win PC.

?

There are several other cool things the X-series can do, but I think I¡¯ve hit a few of the more useful ones.

?

I have used the 8566/8568 family since they came out in the late 70¡¯s, the PSA for several years, and also the X-series since they were introduced. I still own a 66, a 68, and a 3.6 GHz EXA. I don¡¯t use the 68 much. I use the 66 for microwave needs, but the EXA for most everything else on my test bench. Yeah, I hate the slow boot up time, but it does everything else so well and so much faster, and I very seldom need to post-process any sweeps, which saves me a lot more time than the slow boot up costs.

?

My EXA has the noise figure option, and it does have some quirks compared the using the 8970 system that I used to have, but it is just as capable. It doesn¡¯t have quite as many tricks as the 8970 could pull off with its Special Functions menu, but I haven¡¯t missed those.

?

I have had the EXA for going on 15 years and have not had any problems with it. (OK, now I¡¯m slightly apprehensive about going into the lab and turning it on, having said that!)

?

Just like PCs in general, the hardware needed to support newer versions of Windows has changed, and obsoletes the older stuff. An upgrade is pretty simple, though not hobbyist cheap. The computer part ?is a plug in module that has a standard interface, so that , last I heard, an original X-series can be upgraded to the lates Wintel version just by replacing that module. The RF hardware doesn¡¯t need to change at all. Certainly, I would expect that more recently built units will have better RF stuff as that evolves over time.

?

Blame the suits for going to a Windows OS? Nope, blame the engineers who finally got the freedom to build a machine that could do everything that the evolving technology of RF hardware, signal processing, and computing horsepower made possible.

?

Tom, N8ZM

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 11:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Hi

Just an extra note

The preamp are inbuilt all MXA`s

One of the very nice features are a package named EDP..enhanced display package¡ª its also an ?software option and works wonders-it simply lets you make normal sweeps at your own choise¡­and have a split screen with a spectrogram¡­.

If one buy from the seller I earlier have linked to,you simply ask Hong for the options you want..and the analyzer can use!!

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 04:51
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Hi Jeremy et all

The MXA have both a preamp and electronically attenuator as option.All MXA have inbuilt 28v dc for noise sources.

The phase noise and noise figure options works even better than the one used in the old PSA.

Regarding vsa 89600 software¡­.all MXA` used to come with ?version 12.02 and version 14 preinstalled.works great in my MXA`s -and of course one can use this software from a pc as well.

There exist ?cracks for version 12.02 and version 22.21.

Only two of the sellers at ebay can offer the units with-a lot- of options¡­have made a link.

I have collected most info about these nice systems.If interested I can share!!

The only caveat are the bandwidth at 3.6 Ghz,but many of us ?still have the ?old HP/Agilent 856x/859x series analyzers going to multi Ghz.Combinedwith the 3.6 Ghz MXA it¡¯s a great combo as the vsa 89600 sofware have an inbuilt up/down converter mode.The MXA come standard with a digital bandwidth of 25 Mhz!!!

Hardy

?

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af jmr via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 00:22
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser


It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.

The analyser would also need a preamp to cover up to 3.6GHz or an external (homebrew or HP) preamp could be fitted. The noise figure of the internal preamp isn't that great, so I'd recommend making an external preamp, especially for use below about 1GHz.

A noise source would also be needed and this could be homebrew or something like an HP 346A/B. A homebrew noise source would be a lot cheaper but it won't be as stable or as accurate.

The noise figure GUI will probably be similar to that used in other Agilent/Keysight analysers. It's a really nice feature to have on a modern spectrum analyser.?

?

Virusfri.


Re: 5342A: sometimes counts, sometimes not

 

PD: self-check doesn't show 75000000, only zeros


Re: 5342A: sometimes counts, sometimes not

 

Alright guys, I'll check that first. It also seems to me that there is a problem with the frequency reference.?I didn't know that the processor itself depended so much on the time base, but seeing how it has behaved other times, I'll check that and the int/ext switch.

Thank you ;)


Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi

Just an extra note

The preamp are inbuilt all MXA`s

One of the very nice features are a package named EDP..enhanced display package¡ª its also an ?software option and works wonders-it simply lets you make normal sweeps at your own choise¡­and have a split screen with a spectrogram¡­.

If one buy from the seller I earlier have linked to,you simply ask Hong for the options you want..and the analyzer can use!!

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 04:51
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Hi Jeremy et all

The MXA have both a preamp and electronically attenuator as option.All MXA have inbuilt 28v dc for noise sources.

The phase noise and noise figure options works even better than the one used in the old PSA.

Regarding vsa 89600 software¡­.all MXA` used to come with ?version 12.02 and version 14 preinstalled.works great in my MXA`s -and of course one can use this software from a pc as well.

There exist ?cracks for version 12.02 and version 22.21.

Only two of the sellers at ebay can offer the units with-a lot- of options¡­have made a link.

I have collected most info about these nice systems.If interested I can share!!

The only caveat are the bandwidth at 3.6 Ghz,but many of us ?still have the ?old HP/Agilent 856x/859x series analyzers going to multi Ghz.Combinedwith the 3.6 Ghz MXA it¡¯s a great combo as the vsa 89600 sofware have an inbuilt up/down converter mode.The MXA come standard with a digital bandwidth of 25 Mhz!!!

Hardy

?

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af jmr via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 00:22
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser


It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.

The analyser would also need a preamp to cover up to 3.6GHz or an external (homebrew or HP) preamp could be fitted. The noise figure of the internal preamp isn't that great, so I'd recommend making an external preamp, especially for use below about 1GHz.

A noise source would also be needed and this could be homebrew or something like an HP 346A/B. A homebrew noise source would be a lot cheaper but it won't be as stable or as accurate.

The noise figure GUI will probably be similar to that used in other Agilent/Keysight analysers. It's a really nice feature to have on a modern spectrum analyser.?

?

Virusfri.


Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Jeremy et all

The MXA have both a preamp and electronically attenuator as option.All MXA have inbuilt 28v dc for noise sources.

The phase noise and noise figure options works even better than the one used in the old PSA.

Regarding vsa 89600 software¡­.all MXA` used to come with ?version 12.02 and version 14 preinstalled.works great in my MXA`s -and of course one can use this software from a pc as well.

There exist ?cracks for version 12.02 and version 22.21.

Only two of the sellers at ebay can offer the units with-a lot- of options¡­have made a link.

I have collected most info about these nice systems.If interested I can share!!

The only caveat are the bandwidth at 3.6 Ghz,but many of us ?still have the ?old HP/Agilent 856x/859x series analyzers going to multi Ghz.Combinedwith the 3.6 Ghz MXA it¡¯s a great combo as the vsa 89600 sofware have an inbuilt up/down converter mode.The MXA come standard with a digital bandwidth of 25 Mhz!!!

Hardy

?

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af jmr via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 00:22
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser


It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.

The analyser would also need a preamp to cover up to 3.6GHz or an external (homebrew or HP) preamp could be fitted. The noise figure of the internal preamp isn't that great, so I'd recommend making an external preamp, especially for use below about 1GHz.

A noise source would also be needed and this could be homebrew or something like an HP 346A/B. A homebrew noise source would be a lot cheaper but it won't be as stable or as accurate.

The noise figure GUI will probably be similar to that used in other Agilent/Keysight analysers. It's a really nice feature to have on a modern spectrum analyser.?


Virusfri.


HP 140B LVPS -12.6V Not Working

 

I was working on my HP 140B when I suddenly smelled something overheating.? I looked and I'd lost the traces and on further inspection, both -100V and -12.6V were gone.? -100V was an open 1/2A fuse and replacing that restored -100V but -12.6V is still missing.? I found that Q483 was damaged and I replaced it (a 2n3904); however, -12.6V is still not working.

I'm not sure, but I think Q484 may also be bad.? My DMM's diode check mode shows that BE checks okay both ways as expected due to the reverse parallel diode.? My DMM also beeps between BC in both directions.? I don't seen anything that would cause it to beep in the reverse direction (negative on B and positive on C).? I wouldn't think the 20k and 432k in series across BC would be low enough to cause that but I'm not sure about that.? Am I wrong to say that it should only check in the proper forward-biased direction and not in the other direction?

I Q484 is bad, it's listed as a 1854-0071 and from what I've found, there doesn't seem to be an agreement as to what can be used to sub for it.? I have seen where a 2n3904 is suitable but if that's the case, then I wonder why HP didn't use it there.? Anyone know?



Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ


Re: N9020A

 

You can read about the various NF instruments in this old Agilent document here:



The MXA and the older PSA are both listed. I've got extensive experience of using the noise figure personality with the Agilent PSA analyser.?
The noise figure option is very powerful on the PSA, but the user interface for the noise figure personality is very clunky in terms of file management.?
Renaming and saving and reloading custom ENR tables on the PSA analyser is really clunky and frustrating to do. This is one area where Windows should be vastly better because the file visibility and file handling will be much better. Hopefully, it will be easier on the MXA.

The plot below is a noise figure measurement of a Philips OM345 gain block as used in the little Marconi 2022 signal generators. This was taken with a PSA analyser. There's also a plot of a PGA103+ LNA up to 1GHz.

It's also possible to configure the analyser to measure the noise figure of active mixers by setting up the GUI as in the other image below. I'd expect the MXA to support this as well. These are really powerful signal/spectrum analysers.












Re: Interesting power supply issue!

 

So very odd.? The connector is a 15 pin D with guide pins and cannot go in wrong.? Infinite between supplies and common, and between supplies and each other.

It appears that simply connecting the various rail returns together, as they are done at the backplane, causes the problem.? I will see which particular one is the issue.

On 4/21/2024 7:18 PM, Harvey White via groups.io wrote:
Connector miskeyed?? Off by one?? bad?

Any idea what line is shorted?? Resistance with the power supply off but plugged into the backplane?

Guesses.

Harvey


On 4/21/2024 7:12 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
I have an 8711B where the power supply runs when out of the chassis but when plugged in it keeps trying to start as if there is a short.

I have determined that the supply acts this way when the small backplane is plugged in without any assemblies connected.

There are no shorts on the backplane and it is in perfect condition including connectors.

I just ordered the CLIP from ArtekMedia to help me look into this.

Has anyone ever seen something like this?? It's a new one to me!

Peter








Re: Interesting power supply issue!

 

Connector miskeyed?? Off by one?? bad?

Any idea what line is shorted?? Resistance with the power supply off but plugged into the backplane?

Guesses.

Harvey

On 4/21/2024 7:12 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
I have an 8711B where the power supply runs when out of the chassis but when plugged in it keeps trying to start as if there is a short.

I have determined that the supply acts this way when the small backplane is plugged in without any assemblies connected.

There are no shorts on the backplane and it is in perfect condition including connectors.

I just ordered the CLIP from ArtekMedia to help me look into this.

Has anyone ever seen something like this?? It's a new one to me!

Peter




Interesting power supply issue!

 

I have an 8711B where the power supply runs when out of the chassis but when plugged in it keeps trying to start as if there is a short.

I have determined that the supply acts this way when the small backplane is plugged in without any assemblies connected.

There are no shorts on the backplane and it is in perfect condition including connectors.

I just ordered the CLIP from ArtekMedia to help me look into this.

Has anyone ever seen something like this?? It's a new one to me!

Peter


Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

These MXA options are ridiculously expensive for a hardware that is included on analyzer.?
Ing. Patricio A. Greco
Taller Aeron¨¢utico de Reparaci¨®n 1B-349
Organizaci¨®n de Mantenimiento Aeron¨¢utico de la Defensa OMAD-001
Gral. Mart¨ªn Rodr¨ªguez 2159
San Miguel (1663)
Buenos Aires
T:?+5411-4455-2557
F:?+5411-4032-0072

On 21 Apr 2024, at 19:22, jmr via groups.io <jmrhzu@...> wrote:

?Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser


It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.

The analyser would also need a preamp to cover up to 3.6GHz or an external (homebrew or HP) preamp could be fitted. The noise figure of the internal preamp isn't that great, so I'd recommend making an external preamp, especially for use below about 1GHz.

A noise source would also be needed and this could be homebrew or something like an HP 346A/B. A homebrew noise source would be a lot cheaper but it won't be as stable or as accurate.

The noise figure GUI will probably be similar to that used in other Agilent/Keysight analysers. It's a really nice feature to have on a modern spectrum analyser.?


Re: N9020A

 

On 4/21/24 18:22, jmr via groups.io wrote:
Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser
Keysight N9020A Datasheet (testequipmenthq.com) <>
It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.
Ok, *that* is compelling functionality.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: N9020A

 

Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser


It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.

The analyser would also need a preamp to cover up to 3.6GHz or an external (homebrew or HP) preamp could be fitted. The noise figure of the internal preamp isn't that great, so I'd recommend making an external preamp, especially for use below about 1GHz.

A noise source would also be needed and this could be homebrew or something like an HP 346A/B. A homebrew noise source would be a lot cheaper but it won't be as stable or as accurate.

The noise figure GUI will probably be similar to that used in other Agilent/Keysight analysers. It's a really nice feature to have on a modern spectrum analyser.?


Re: N9020A

 

On 4/21/24 17:13, jmr via groups.io wrote:
All of the 15-20 year old E4440A PSA analysers are still in use at work despite the ~2 minute boot up time.
And hopefully they will stay there, until there's a *real* need to move to something different.

A fairly decent analyser will have a 14 bit digital IF, a real time bandwidth of 10MHz to maybe 160MHz? and very good specifications for dynamic range, log accuracy, waveform power measurement, and it will be able to demodulate and analyse many forms of digital modulation. I'm not sure any of this is possible with your old analyser.
It hasn't been a limitation for my work, but see below.

If your point was valid, my colleagues and I would be using your old HP spectrum analyser at work instead of the PSA/MXA/PXA analysers. We could also tell our project manager what we achieved in the couple of minutes we saved each time we powered it up. Obviously, we wouldn't be capturing and analysing modern wideband waveforms because your analyser can't do that.
It sounds like your job isn't the same as mine, and that's ok.

The work I'm doing is "modern", in that it's current work for current customers' current designs. I do what people pay me to do. When my equipment no longer fits the need, I will acquire something that does.

If that day ever comes, I just hope the only things available aren't Windows toys. I don't have the patience for that, and I'm not talking about boot-up times.

But, when I've needed a digital IF, I pipe the 70900B analyzer's I/Q outputs into an 89441A. That has handled everything I've needed thus far. If you're doing really high-speed stuff, and thus need 160MHz worth of bandwidth, I pity you, as you're likely locked into that crap. I do almost exclusively sensor networking, which usually doesn't need lots of bandwidth, but does have to make use of some relatively fancy modulation schemes on occasion. Post-processing on a desktop computer is very useful for that.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: N9020A

 

All of the 15-20 year old E4440A PSA analysers are still in use at work despite the ~2 minute boot up time.

There's quite a few MXA and PXA analysers at work as well.?

A fairly decent analyser will have a 14 bit digital IF, a real time bandwidth of 10MHz to maybe 160MHz? and very good specifications for dynamic range, log accuracy, waveform power measurement, and it will be able to demodulate and analyse many forms of digital modulation. I'm not sure any of this is possible with your old analyser.

If your point was valid, my colleagues and I would be using your old HP spectrum analyser at work instead of the PSA/MXA/PXA analysers. We could also tell our project manager what we achieved in the couple of minutes we saved each time we powered it up. Obviously, we wouldn't be capturing and analysing modern wideband waveforms because your analyser can't do that.


Re: Re-capping an HP-130 Scopes

 

You won't be able to set up the power supplies by themselves, the other rails depend on the -150V rail, which has the voltage reference tube.

Pulling the 6AQ5 (V17 in the pdf manual) would be enough disable the EHT, while you are bringing it up and working on the power supply.
There are two connection sockets for the wiring to the EHT section, it looks to be J6 for the input and J7 for the EHT output. Remove the plug for J6 as the other method of disabling the EHT section, this is on the top of the EHT section, probably well hidden by the power supply board.

C133 was the one that shorted in mine, which probably wasn't good for the regulator tube on that rail.

David


Re: N9020A

 

On 4/21/24 16:38, jmr via groups.io wrote:
This is getting a bit silly now.
The boot time for the classic Agilent E4440A PSA spectrum analyser is quite long This was the industry standard spectrum analyser since 2001 until the PXA/MXA analysers came along.
The startup time of the 70900B in my lab is about 9 seconds.

This is what happens when something is effectively a solved problem and all that's left to "improve" is the production cost.

And, well, of course maybe the weight. ;) But I don't tote my RF equipment around very often.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: N9020A

 

This is getting a bit silly now.
The boot time for the classic Agilent E4440A PSA spectrum analyser is quite long This was the industry standard spectrum analyser since 2001 until the PXA/MXA analysers came along.

The PSA doesn't run Windows, it runs an HP based OS. The PSA does shut down instantly when the power off button is pressed, but it does take quite a while to boot up. I've not compared it to the boot time for an MXA analyser but both are going to be quite slow to boot up.

At work, there is a security niggle with Windows equipment when it gets sent for calibration or repair. Each instrument has to be scanned (for viruses and malware) on exit and entry by the cal company. So far, I'm only aware of a couple of false alarms in this respect at work. The other niggle is getting data from rented (Windows) test gear via a USB port. This is generally avoided in favour of using GPIB, but a special USB device is used that gets scanned before and after.?


OT: Physik Instrumente docs?

 

Please forgive the off-topic post, but I know of no greater concentration of technical knowledge than this one.

I am looking for documentation for some Physik Instrumente piezo nanopositioner controller modules, specifically the E-250.60 and the E-865.10, and the E-808. Would anyone here happen to have anything on those modules?

Thanks,
-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA