Re: 8557A/8558A Switch Board Assembly - Contact Fingers
Just don't grind those fingers and inhale or eat the BeCu dust.
Barry - N4BUQ
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From: "Frank Mashockie" <fmashockie@...> To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 9:09:22 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8557A/8558A Switch Board Assembly - Contact Fingers
Thanks Martin!
Yea I just got done taking the switch assembly apart.? So it looks like I have two missing contact fingers.? One on the time base switch and one on the frequency span/div switch.? I thought there was one missing on the bandwidth res switch as well, but it looks like there is only one contact finger (4 fingers) on that one normally.? There is a spot for another one to go, but the rivets are brand new.? Unlike on the ones that are broke where it is clear they have been ripped out.
The contact fingers are roughly 0.25" wide and 0.5" long.? I found this finger stock by Laird Technologies EMI part # 97-521 ().? I think this will work fine.
But as you said, I am more concerned about putting this back together!? I really screwed up taking the double-stacked frequency switch apart.? I started loosening things I didn't need to separate the two switches, when really the way to do it is by removing the e-clip on top of the shaft - I can't believe I missed that... So this is definitely going to be a challenge.? Especially as time passes waiting for the finger stock to come in...
I know this is a long shot, but did HP release any additional info for assembly/disassembly of these switches?? They include a ton of info on the dial drive assembly in the manual, but nothing about the other switches.? Which is annoying because they are a lot more complicated than the mechanical tuning drive!? At least I have the exploded diagrams so hopefully that will help.
Thanks!
-Frank
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Re: HP 3325B option 002 upgrade
And that¡¯s the rub, it doesn¡¯t. I have the switches set correctly and the options show up on startup.?
So as far as I know, once the options are set up properly, it will supply high output when you set the frequency under 1MHz. ?That¡¯s where I am today. Please point out the exceedingly stupid thing I¡¯m missing.?
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Re: 8557A/8558A Switch Board Assembly - Contact Fingers
in the PHOTOS section,you will find my solution for an 8660C I did in 0n 06/02/21...and another on done using contacts from a USB socket done on 02/24/22 on a 8558B by another individual
jim
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Re: 8557A/8558A Switch Board Assembly - Contact Fingers
Thanks Martin!
Yea I just got done taking the switch assembly apart.? So it looks like I have two missing contact fingers.? One on the time base switch and one on the frequency span/div switch.? I thought there was one missing on the bandwidth res switch as well, but it looks like there is only one contact finger (4 fingers) on that one normally.? There is a spot for another one to go, but the rivets are brand new.? Unlike on the ones that are broke where it is clear they have been ripped out.
The contact fingers are roughly 0.25" wide and 0.5" long.? I found this finger stock by Laird Technologies EMI part # 97-521 ().? I think this will work fine.
But as you said, I am more concerned about putting this back together!? I really screwed up taking the double-stacked frequency switch apart.? I started loosening things I didn't need to separate the two switches, when really the way to do it is by removing the e-clip on top of the shaft - I can't believe I missed that... So this is definitely going to be a challenge.? Especially as time passes waiting for the finger stock to come in...
I know this is a long shot, but did HP release any additional info for assembly/disassembly of these switches?? They include a ton of info on the dial drive assembly in the manual, but nothing about the other switches.? Which is annoying because they are a lot more complicated than the mechanical tuning drive!? At least I have the exploded diagrams so hopefully that will help.
Thanks!
-Frank
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Re: 8557A/8558A Switch Board Assembly - Contact Fingers
Hi Frank,
I did exactly the same type of repair on an HP8569, using copper stripe from some shielding remains. Worked fine.? Mounting back the cams was indeed the greater challenge.
cheers Martin
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Re: 8557A/8558A Switch Board Assembly - Contact Fingers
I think I might have found what I'm looking for.? Finger Stock for shielding.? Just need to find the correct dimensions - still need to disassemble to measure the originals.? But here's an example of what I have in mind: ?https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/laird-technologies-emi/0097043802/3767375?utm_adgroup=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%20Shopping_Product_Medium%20ROAS%20Categories&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_id=go_cmp-20223376311_adg-_ad-__dev-c_ext-_prd-3767375_sig-CjwKCAjw7-SvBhB6EiwAwYdCATxrpKPHJFXT0e8Yx5gTQzcfgABcJMGcKr1hZgmdxN-D8KyDsXt8jxoCb9EQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw7-SvBhB6EiwAwYdCATxrpKPHJFXT0e8Yx5gTQzcfgABcJMGcKr1hZgmdxN-D8KyDsXt8jxoCb9EQAvD_BwE
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Do you have a X28C64P-20 for U500? You can compare its datasheet
with Atmel 28C64, if it matches 28C64 is available at Digikey (and probably other places too).
Ozan ============
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On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:43 AM, Michael Kohla wrote:
Hi experts,?
?
can anyone point me to the specific type of the eeprom U500 in my Hp8563e??
Where can I eventually get a substitute/equivalent for it? I suspect it might get corrupt due to elapsed time...?
Any advice is more than welcome,?
?
Michael
?
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Usually you have to buy the older EPROMs/EEPROMs from places like Jameco or eBay, as most have disappeared from the mainstream market.? I thought ko4bb.com had some E-series ROMs but can¡¯t find them now, so I¡¯ll re-upload them. ? -- john, KE5FX ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Michael Kohla via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 4:24 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Hp8563e ? Hi experts,? can anyone point me to the specific type of the eeprom U500 in my Hp8563e?? Where can I eventually get a substitute/equivalent for it? I suspect it might get corrupt due to elapsed time...? Any advice is more than welcome,?
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8557A/8558A Switch Board Assembly - Contact Fingers
Well y'all - what I dreaded would be the case has come to pass.? I was working my way into the troubleshooting trees of the 8557A Spectrum Analyzer plug-in and it led me to the Vertical Driver board.? I believe I did find one bad JFET on it, but it was for switching between the 1dB and LIN + 10dB modes.? Other than that, it seems fine.? So I decided to take a step back - this plug-in has way too many issues to utilize the troubleshooting trees.? And it got me thinking about other failure modes.? Some of you had warned me of the contact fingers for the switches.? And I had looked at them briefly and I saw the fingers. The fingers are made up of a thin metal with 4 prongs to each piece - so I was assuming I'd find one of those prongs had broke.? I didn't see anything like that.? I didn't consider that possibly the whole piece could be missing...
Then I found a blog called Lazy Electrons where the blogger takes apart the whole switching assembly of an 8558A (same type of switches).? Each switch has two sets of these 4 pronged contacts making for a total of 8 fingers for each switch.? Sure enough, I looked at mine and some of the switches are missing one of the 4-pronged pieces... Specifically the timebase and the stacked Bandwidth resolution and frequency span/div switch - that one is missing one on each switch (I hear this one is a real PITA to disassemble).? This makes perfect sense now regarding the symptoms I am seeing.
My question is, has anyone had luck rebuilding these contact fingers?? If so, what material did you use?? I know there are some blogs out there rebuilding these (one of them I mentioned), but most of them involve using existing contacts.? The Lazy Electrons blogger got really lucky - while he did not have spare fingers, he sourced news from an old hard drive with these metal flaps that were perfectly shaped - all he needed to do was cut slits into it to make 4 fingers (here's a link to his blog.? Very well done ).? I don't think I will get this lucky.? If anyone has any suggestions as far as material to buy (something more accessible) I would greatly appreciate it!?
Thanks in advance!
-Frank?
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CRT problemi solved, thanks Bob, still looking for a schematic for my model number
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Hi experts,?
?
can anyone point me to the specific type of the eeprom U500 in my Hp8563e??
Where can I eventually get a substitute/equivalent for it? I suspect it might get corrupt due to elapsed time...?
Any advice is more than welcome,?
?
Michael
?
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E4406A VSA with an identity crisis! (serial numbers and part numbers lost)
I dragged my E4406A VSA out of storage this morning, it ran for a while then crashed. I gave it a few minutes then power cycled it, and none of the poweron alignment tests ran. On checking the system information screen (Show System) I found that the system serial number had reset to zero, all the licence keys were invalid, and all of the boards were showing as either not present or had weird serial numbers or part numbers. I've uploaded some photos to the group album: /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=293840I tried entering the service password and trying to re-enter the serial number, but it didn't 'take' - as in it's still stuck at zero. My game plan is to pull the top cover and re-seat the boards to start with, and after that do the usual stuff (remove any optional upgrade boards and try booting again, look for dead tantalums, etc) -- but I was wondering if anyone had seen this issue before? Cheers Phil
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Got myself a Agilent 8593E 22GHz SPA, but it had a faulty YTO. Since I repaired a faulty HP8560A SPA with faulty YTO by replacing the YTO with an anritsu 4-8GHz YTO a while back, I thought I would do the same trick. But the 8593E YTO extends below 4GHz. It worked, calibrated, and passed confidence test, but would not calibrate YTF since there were holes in the response where the YTO went below 4GHz. So, I found a 3-8GHz anritsu YTO. Same form factor. So I purchased a couple and made up another module. But, I found the output power of the 3-8GHz TYO was much lower. About -5dBm to -15dBm. Not enough for the sampler to lock. I purchased an el chepo ebay 6GHz amplifier which helped. It now locks & displays some signals. But again lots of holes where the output level drops too low for the mixer. YTO & el cheapo amp output levels range from +10dBm to -13dBm.
Anyone got any ideas where I can find a LO amplifier to suite? I found "RF909 1MHz to 10GHz" amplifier on ebay, but cant find any specs, only max 17dBm.
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So my adventures in restoring this instrument continue.
The YTO I got from ebay had a definite intermittent short between one side of the FM coil and the -5 volt pin.
I cut it open and this was a manufacturing defect.
The ebay seller sent me another unit, which is fine.? He didn't give me a hard time at all, very honorable.
So I mounted it in the instrument with the adapter plate I had made, hooked up the -5 volt regulator and everything else, and tried the YTO adjustments.
I could set the low to the 3.200 GHz but I couldn't get the high to go to 6.010 GHz.? Not enough range in the adjustment pot.? In the circuit there are R44 and R126, each 100 ohm 0.1% resistors, in parallel, in the current sense part of the current source circuit. I found that an added 1K resistor in parallel would give me enough range so I added a high quality 1% 1K resistor there.
I was then able to go back and forth on the low and high adjustments until they were right.
However, that resistor might not be the right value even though I could get the adjustments to work, because I am getting an error 319, which is a warning that the coarse YTO tune DAC is near its limit.
I will have to look at the DAC output to see if this is for the lower or upper limit and go from there.
This is promising.? It looks like this substitute YTO might just end up working out.
Peter
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0950-2315 Power Supply for 83731B etc ... Schematic or CLIP or suggestions
Hi ... Any chance someone has the schematic or CLIP or any suggestions to fix a 0950-2315 with only the First Green LED lit? Thanks, Kevin VE3KH
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Re: HP 54542C resolvers intermittent
Thanks Ed, yes I found that and it is done.
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I just found a couple more Noble brand rotary encoders in stock. Out in the open, you can see a big clearance notch in the casting, for the element connections to the leads, and even see the wiper partly - there's plenty of opening to spray stuff in there. I think you'll find the same thing on yours if you remove them from the board, so cleaning them out and lubing should be easy. No need to take apart.
Ed
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Re: HP 54542C resolvers intermittent
I suggest you try my cure. It is a 30 minute job.? Maybe, first, give it a month to see if I post any problems. Be careful of the plastic trim ring. I broke the one on my parts scope after safely removing it. I picked it up and it caught on something.
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I've got the HP 54540C version here and it behaves the same as yours. I've had it about 9 years and it doesn't seem to gave got much worse although I hardly ever use it now. It generally seems worse just after starting and gets better. The horizontal control is worse than vertical. The vertical typically gets it wrong maybe 1 in 5 but the horizontal control is worse. It is probably wrong 3 out of 5 when first started and then improves. I have done nothing about it and just accepted it. I replaced it with an HP 54825A scope a few years later.? The HP 54825A also suffers from this issue but not as much. It gets the direction wrong maybe 1 in 10 times on the CH1 vertical and on the horizontal control.
I always assumed this was done optically and was adjustable somewhere. Neither scope misbehaves badly enough to make me want to do anything about it. Both were salvaged from a skip/dumpster so I'm not that fussed about getting them to work perfectly.
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Re: HP 54542C resolvers intermittent
Thanks Ed; I think you are right about the markings. Now I have the backlight installed and working, I got back to this issue of skipping encoders. Here is my solution to help others.
This DSO is extremely easy to take apart. Follow the instructions in the manual. Removing the case is the hardest part - be careful of the plastic ring. The power supply is removed by removing the floppy drive (2 screws), pulling 3 connectors and two plastic rods and sliding it out (no screws).? The front panel has 4 screws to remove then it slides out the front. A 5 minute job.? Compared to removing the Tektronix 2465 power supply this is a delight to work on. Do not take the front panel apart any further than this: That is asking for trouble. Do not attempt to dismantle the encoders. Again - asking for problems. There is a slot under the pins where you can squirt contact cleaner. I use the MG stuff.? I believe it has lubricant as well to stop wearing and smearing metal particles across the printed contacts.  After a cautious?test I gave all?the encoders a squirt and spun them a bit.? A few minutes later my 54542C was back together and working beautifully. I have saved Ed's comment in case I ever have to track down a replacement. If anyone ever orders one please add to this thread.
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The "circle with wiggle" mark is almost certainly Noble brand. These things are held together by the spread forks of the pot metal front shell at the corners of the back plate. With good flat-jawed pliers (preferably) or side wire flush-cutters, and careful working, you can grab each fork and compress the tines back together - try to go only just enough to release the back plate. Since the forks are pot metal, I'd say you have a 50-50 chance of successfully squeezing them just enough to get it open, then spreading them back out intact when finished - only one time. A second attempt will surely break the tines.
But, the good news is the simple structure can be easily epoxied back together, even if all the tines break off. The base of each fork should fit well into the corresponding notches in the back plate. Wash off any stray lube oil on the outside after all fixing is done, with IPA. A nice little dab of a quick-set (1-5 min) epoxy right on top of each fork, spreading slightly onto the back surface, should do it. Be sure the alignment is good, and squeeze the plate against the front casting until the epoxy sets up. If you do it right and quickly, the epoxy won't soak in too much, and will leave a glob that can be sliced off if necessary for future maintenance. If you manage to keep the tines intact and don't need epoxy, you can spread them back out carefully with needle-nose pliers, working against the back plate or casting features only for leverage - never the board or contact pin area.
If you need to find replacements or equivalents, you'll have to figure out the exact function of each unit - how many detents, resistance values, dimensions, etc. These may be standardized components with second-sourcing available, but you have to know what to look for. From the pictures, it looks like they are all pot elements with three leads. Next, is there a manual for this, showing the circuitry and values, and maybe the part numbers and such to cross reference? If these really are only pots with detents, then without any more info I'd guess the uP reads the pots with an ADC to know the setting. Are the settings absolute? IOW, if you turn it off, then change the pot setting, then back on, does it go to the new setting? There are specially patterned pot/encoders that provide pulse rotation and direction signals for up/down operation, but I don't recall if any can do that with only three leads*.? *(see below)
Lastly, was this model still made in the mid-1990s? If so, I'd think those "9" numbers are indeed date codes, while the dashed ones look more like part number details. Comparing your "1-2-36" codes to my Noble datasheet, I'd guess it means there is 1 circuit, 2 bits, and 36 "electrical positions." You can't tell the electrical easily from outside, but you can count the mechanical detents. From these numbers, I would guess that it is a relative (not absolute - not enough bits or leads), up/down counting wheel. So, if this is indeed the case, then it answers the question about having enough leads to work. If you take one of these apart at some point, you'll probably find two rotary patterns of 36 steps around, alternating open and conduction (the electrical positions), that are slightly out of phase (or the wipers are out of phase), or, maybe one pattern only, with some kind of wiper arrangement offset just right to get the alternation and phase. I think I'm remembering now - one lead is common, and the other two are resistance or conductor elements with alternating on/off states versus the common lead. The rotation is indicated by the state changes, while the direction is encoded in the relative phase. So there you go - three pins can do it. If this is actually the deal, then it's all digital, and no pot resistance measuring is needed.
One final, last thing. There is a way to get liquid cleaners and lubes into the pots, especially if you're removing them anyway. If you have some decent vacuum equipment, you can submerge the pots in a vacuum jar setup, then pump down a little and release so it will pull some inside. These are not sealed much, mostly against dirt only. All the joining surfaces and shaft holes through the front bushing and back plate, for instance, are wide open to getting liquids inside. Even without vacuum gear, just soaking them in the liquids overnight should get something in.
Ed
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I designed a board to incorporate the LED kit. It needs a startup delay which uses a 555 timer and installed a 78L05 to power it and the brightness pot. I cut the original cable close to the connector and spliced on colored wires with brown on pin 1 and grey on pin 8. This was to avoid confusion. I added a connector on my breadboard and connected everything. The board was installed in the original threaded holes with plastic spacers. The LED driver is held by one plastic screw and nut and a strap. It works beautifully. The brightness pot is at top right.  The LED kit is described in my last post. It was purchased from JK_parts who told me:
The LEDs can be cut in sets of 3. I am using 33 LEDs for the 54542C. R4 on the controller board needs to be changed to 1 ohm to decrease output LED current.
They have a nice product with fast shipping and reply to queries. The control voltages should be held below 5v. Here is my schematic:  The display is now better than when I got the DSO. Now to work on the Rotary encoders.
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Re: HP 54542C resolvers intermittent
Forgot to mention. These have five pins, and are marked "1-4-12," indicating 1 circuit, 4 bits, and 12 electrical positions. There's enough pins for 4 bits, so these are absolute encoders, using only 12 of 16 possible states. There are 12 mechanical detents too. So, I think these three numbers are the key to telling what's going on with these things. The other dozen or so numbers in datasheets are mostly mechanical dimensions and such for a large variety of configurations, but are not marked on the part.
Ed
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