Hi All
Does anybody know which fingers on the two range switch sections go to which dividers in the time base section.? My counter appears to work from 0.5MHz to 16MHz and then produces silly results in the counter display.? The counter itself works with an external input to 500MHz, so it has to be the time base selector that is causing problems. I don't appear to have a good quality schematic diagram and pcb layout for this section. I have, using the auxilliary output on a frequency counter, the full frequency range from the oscillators and dividers from 0.5MHz to 500MHz.
I have already attempted to repair the range switch with replcement fingers, which look like they are connecting to the rotary tracks. I can't confirm this on the ribbon cables though.
Any help? would be extremely useful.
--
Graham
G8ZNK
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Re: Agilent E4406A Power Supply
Are you still looking for an E4406A power supply module? I have one that is complete, but I don't know how well it works, or even if it works. You're welcome to it for shipping costs from 92109.
Stan
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Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
Think I may have found the Grey lead...
Mogami W2546 75ohm Coax
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Hi Paul,
Wow. That is next level genius.?
I'm reminded of the??project with respect?to the aftermarket display mods you can build around HP test gear.
Well done Paul, thanks for the?info.
I have the?K01-5360A Serial to Parallel Converter (feeding a HP 5050B Digital Recorder with nixie option) so will?look at reading the stream after it enters the?
K01-5360A box.
Many thanks,
Terry.
Terry Essentially there is a 1 Mb/s serial data bus that feeds the?displays and printer port. I used a SXB processor (No longer available for some time) to decode the stream for the 7 segment display then used two ICM? display drivers ? 7209? Since I had all of the?data I created a rs232 serial stream of the?counter which is useful to me. Never set up an input process. That was some 8 years ago approximately. Have no doubt it can be done. Especially since everything can be programmed by diodes.
Today all of the functions?I did could easily be done with a PIC or Arduino. With the higher speed models available even capturing the 1 Mb/s stream can all be done in the micro. That would be a sweet design. Clean and simple. The biggest pain was wiring all of the?7 segment LEDs together and getting the spacing just right to look good. Regards Paul
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Ah, Apex Electronics!? As I've posted here before or to TekScopes or Test-Equipment-For-Sale-Wanted-or-Exchange, I used to go there decades ago when it was on my way home from work.? Lotsa great stuff, but the reels of cable in the back lot exposed to the weather were always questionable.? Is it still there?? Not that I get up to Sun Valley or even to the San Fernando Valley much these days....
Jim Ford Laguna Hills, California, USA
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." Romans 8:28 (NLT)
------ Original Message ------
Date 1/5/2024 4:00:06 PM
Subject Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5360A Counter
I've heard of Apex Electronics, there was a video tour on youtube not too long ago, a lot of the older TE seemed to be reversed for film prop use.
Haven't seen any 5360 sold over here for over a decade, I do hope the two that did sell went to people that are actually interested in restoring them, these days there is a lot of competition from glassware thieves & a ebay dealer that turns anything cheap into expensive parts to resell.
There was one in completed listings in Europe more recently, again I hope it went to a good home, it was a nice early one too.
Looking at your pictures there aren't too many National ICs visible, I've had a bunch of them fail in a 5340 and counter & display drivers of all makes seem to have a high failure rate in my TE. National op-amps & comparator ICs seemed to fail often in stuff at work too.
David
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:25 PM, Cubdriver wrote:
David, I found one at Apex Electronics (a surplus place in California) some years ago, and eventually found a manual as well. ?I've yet to attack it, though, and have also spent years on the lookout for a spare without success. ?They were big bucks back in the day (list was ~$6500 in the early 70s, and $8300 for the counter alone in '76; add another $1200 if you want the time interval plug in too), and weigh a LOT - IIRC it was in the neighborhood of 50 lbs/23 kg - strangely, none of the catalogs list the weight and dimensions - its page in the several that I looked at ('72, '72. '75 & '76) was very abbreviated, like it was a rough draft that they never bothered to complete - no really clear list of specifications at all, but instead a note saying for the detailed specs contact them for the system data sheet, available on request. ?Strange...
I'd bet they didn't sell too many of them at nearly 2x the price of the 5245L/5345A. ?I suspect that they're about as common as hen's teeth at this point! ?Lots of DIPs in them! ?(And a wire-wrapped backplane, to lever off of one of our recent discuttions here on the mailing list.) ?Pics of mine here:
-Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: bobradios11@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 00105-6013 HP crystal oscillator wanted
What happened to the 5360A counters? Not seen any for sale in the UK for years, I was warned they are very unreliable, but this doesn't put me off adding one to my collection.
David
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Re: Agilent E4406A / 16700 CPU issue
It's a good idea to grab the synth calibration file via FTP before doing a firmware update. The update process is arranged to try to preserve this cal file, but it is really easy to allow it to be lost and replaced with a default (zero byte?) cal file. Any licence files can also be saved via FTP although these should be safe when updating the firmware.
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Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
This is from one of the PDF manuals of the 410C I have.? I suppose I should have used "resistance" instead of "impedance".? The AC VOLTMETER section does use "impedance" and rightfully so.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Roy Thistle" <roy.thistle@...>
To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 5:30:59 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 10:54 AM, n4buq wrote:
DC VOLTS input impedance spec. Ok. Yes... we used to call that the "DC input resistance' (and I'm pretty sure that HP did too.)... but, times change.
|
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 10:54 AM, n4buq wrote:
DC VOLTS input impedance spec.
Ok. Yes... we used to call that the "DC input resistance' (and I'm pretty sure that HP did too.)... but, times change.
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Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
Thanks for sharing that Adam.? That's definitely news to me.? GL!
73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
On 1/5/2024 2:34 PM, Adam Attig wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Good discussion everyone.
Note, from Ashley at KissElectonics
"HP used shielded wire in the "C",
custom made by HP for these leads. The OHMS shielded cable was
colored RED to distinguish it from the DC shielded wire.
We have never been able to source
this shielded wire.
? ? ? ? What we DID
use was to purchase power supply modules ( they were used for
an HP printer) and harvest the shielded output cable. It is
flexible, a nice grey color and fits the "C" rubber test lead
shrouds."
Also, thanks for the tip on Van Damme cables, seem like
quality cables - they had one coax close to the size i need,
but looks like only sold in EU/UK.
Looking into finding a replacment for the strain reliefs which
allow for a more standard diameter coax and keep the same
look.? Willl keep everyone updated.
-Adam
|
I've heard of Apex Electronics, there was a video tour on youtube not too long ago, a lot of the older TE seemed to be reversed for film prop use.
Haven't seen any 5360 sold over here for over a decade, I do hope the two that did sell went to people that are actually interested in restoring them, these days there is a lot of competition from glassware thieves & a ebay dealer that turns anything cheap into expensive parts to resell.
There was one in completed listings in Europe more recently, again I hope it went to a good home, it was a nice early one too.
Looking at your pictures there aren't too many National ICs visible, I've had a bunch of them fail in a 5340 and counter & display drivers of all makes seem to have a high failure rate in my TE. National op-amps & comparator ICs seemed to fail often in stuff at work too.
David
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:25 PM, Cubdriver wrote:
David, I found one at Apex Electronics (a surplus place in California) some years ago, and eventually found a manual as well. ?I've yet to attack it, though, and have also spent years on the lookout for a spare without success. ?They were big bucks back in the day (list was ~$6500 in the early 70s, and $8300 for the counter alone in '76; add another $1200 if you want the time interval plug in too), and weigh a LOT - IIRC it was in the neighborhood of 50 lbs/23 kg - strangely, none of the catalogs list the weight and dimensions - its page in the several that I looked at ('72, '72. '75 & '76) was very abbreviated, like it was a rough draft that they never bothered to complete - no really clear list of specifications at all, but instead a note saying for the detailed specs contact them for the system data sheet, available on request. ?Strange...
I'd bet they didn't sell too many of them at nearly 2x the price of the 5245L/5345A. ?I suspect that they're about as common as hen's teeth at this point! ?Lots of DIPs in them! ?(And a wire-wrapped backplane, to lever off of one of our recent discuttions here on the mailing list.) ?Pics of mine here:
-Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: bobradios11@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 00105-6013 HP crystal oscillator wanted
What happened to the 5360A counters? Not seen any for sale in the UK for years, I was warned they are very unreliable, but this doesn't put me off adding one to my collection.
David
|
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
Good discussion everyone. Note, from Ashley at KissElectonics
"HP used shielded wire in the "C", custom made by HP for these leads. The OHMS shielded cable was colored RED to distinguish it from the DC shielded wire.
We have never been able to source this shielded wire.
? ? ? ? What we DID use was to purchase power supply modules ( they were used for an HP printer) and harvest the shielded output cable. It is flexible, a nice grey color and fits the "C" rubber test lead shrouds."
Also, thanks for the tip on Van Damme cables, seem like quality cables - they had one coax close to the size i need, but looks like only sold in EU/UK.
Looking into finding a replacment for the strain reliefs which allow for a more standard diameter coax and keep the same look.? Willl keep everyone updated.
-Adam
|
The whole semiconductor industry was that way, first working around the clock to satisfy demand and then laying people off the next year as over-supply set in.?
We in the Santa Clara photomask operation made masks for all the divisions including Danbury.?
I too worked at National in the 80s - was at the Danbury, CT fab from 1984 until they closed it in 1990.? The TTL and transistor lines there were still running 3" wafers on old equipment.? Most of the photomasking tracks on the transistor and TTL lines were ancient relay-logic units, and the diffusion furnaces were only a generation or two beyond being coal fired.? We did a fair bit of band-aiding things. It was definitely feast or famine there - started as a co-op tech through college in summer of 1984 and went full time in '85.? That first summer ('84) they were running 24-7; three 8 hr shifts during the week, and two 12 hr shifts on the weekends.? Come Thanksgiving 1984, we shut down for two weeks.? Two more at Christmas/New Years.? In the summer of 1985, the cumulative shut downs totaled eight weeks.? Crazy industry. -Pat
? > ------ Original Message ------
> From: jn6wfo@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5360A Counter
? I worked for National 1979-1990 and can confirm at least some of the problems were due to management¡¯s unwillingness to spend money maintaining (much less improving) process and equipment.?
? ?
?
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 9:29?AM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: ? On 1/5/24 11:41, Dick Benson wrote:
> I acquired one of these back circa 23 years ago. According to the?
> knowledgeable seller it worked but had a bad time-base.? Ha!
> As some of you know, this engineering marvel has >100 SSI/MSI TTL ICs.??
> It turned out that FOUR of the IC's were defective.? All four were?
> manufactured by National Semiconductor. Three of the 4 were SN7402N (HP?
> 1820--0328) and the 4th was a National Semi 74160 (HP 1820-0899).
> See the trend ?
>?
> If I recall, National Semi had a case of the "Purple Plague" in the?
> 1970s, and these failures were likely due to this.
> A failure analysis was not done on the parts, but it seems to be more?
> than a coincidence that all of them were made by National.
? ?At LSSM we do repairs on TTL circuitry all the time.? National?
Semiconductor SSI ICs have, by far, the highest failure rate of all?
manufacturers' ICs.
? ?I had (and still have) great respect for NS, but their chips are?
dropping like flies.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
--?
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
?
|
Re: Old style oval HP power cords
There are a large number of manufacturers who make compact adapters that go between various styles of AC connectors (especially involving IEC C13/C14 series).? It would be nice for someone to come up with a compact IEC C14 (male) to PH163 (oval female) adapter that one could connect to the legacy equipment and have the best of both worlds.
?
If the demand were significant enough a manufacturer might be convinced to do so.? Not only does the test equipment field need such a product there is also a demand within the musical instrument areas as well as others.
?
Greg
|
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
Yes - that's the DC VOLTS input impedance spec.
Thanks, Barry - N4BUQ
From: "Roy Thistle" <roy.thistle@...>
To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 12:17:27 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 03:36 PM, n4buq wrote:
At 500mV and up, the 410C's input impedance is 100M.
Isn't that the DC resistance? With an input impedance of a few pF, the DC "impedance" should be much higher... unless it's a reasonably leaky capacitor?
|
I too worked at National in the 80s - was at the Danbury, CT fab from 1984 until they closed it in 1990. ?The TTL and transistor lines there were still running 3" wafers on old equipment. ?Most of the photomasking tracks on the transistor and TTL lines were ancient relay-logic units, and the diffusion furnaces were only a generation or two beyond being coal fired. ?We did a fair bit of band-aiding things. It was definitely feast or famine there - started as a co-op tech through college in summer of 1984 and went full time in '85. ?That first summer ('84) they were running 24-7; three 8 hr shifts during the week, and two 12 hr shifts on the weekends. ?Come Thanksgiving 1984, we shut down for two weeks. ?Two more at Christmas/New Years. ?In the summer of 1985, the cumulative shut downs totaled eight weeks. ?Crazy industry. -Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: jn6wfo@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5360A Counter
? I worked for National 1979-1990 and can confirm at least some of the problems were due to management¡¯s unwillingness to spend money maintaining (much less improving) process and equipment.?
? ?
?
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 9:29?AM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: ? On 1/5/24 11:41, Dick Benson wrote:
> I acquired one of these back circa 23 years ago. According to the?
> knowledgeable seller it worked but had a bad time-base.? Ha!
> As some of you know, this engineering marvel has >100 SSI/MSI TTL ICs.??
> It turned out that FOUR of the IC's were defective.? All four were?
> manufactured by National Semiconductor. Three of the 4 were SN7402N (HP?
> 1820--0328) and the 4th was a National Semi 74160 (HP 1820-0899).
> See the trend ?
>?
> If I recall, National Semi had a case of the "Purple Plague" in the?
> 1970s, and these failures were likely due to this.
> A failure analysis was not done on the parts, but it seems to be more?
> than a coincidence that all of them were made by National.
? ?At LSSM we do repairs on TTL circuitry all the time.? National?
Semiconductor SSI ICs have, by far, the highest failure rate of all?
manufacturers' ICs.
? ?I had (and still have) great respect for NS, but their chips are?
dropping like flies.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
--?
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
?
|
National Semiconductor was of course absorbed into Texas Instruments about 10 or 20 years ago.? ? ? Jim Ford
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> Date: 1/5/24 9:56 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5360A Counter
I worked for National 1979-1990 and can confirm at least some of the problems were due to management¡¯s unwillingness to spend money maintaining (much less improving) process and equipment.?
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 9:29?AM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 1/5/24 11:41, Dick Benson wrote:
> I acquired one of these back circa 23 years ago. According to the
> knowledgeable seller it worked but had a bad time-base.? Ha!
> As some of you know, this engineering marvel has >100 SSI/MSI TTL ICs.?
> It turned out that FOUR of the IC's were defective.? All four were
> manufactured by National Semiconductor. Three of the 4 were SN7402N (HP
> 1820--0328) and the 4th was a National Semi 74160 (HP 1820-0899).
> See the trend ?
>
> If I recall, National Semi had a case of the "Purple Plague" in the
> 1970s, and these failures were likely due to this.
> A failure analysis was not done on the parts, but it seems to be more
> than a coincidence that all of them were made by National.
? ?At LSSM we do repairs on TTL circuitry all the time.? National
Semiconductor SSI ICs have, by far, the highest failure rate of all
manufacturers' ICs.
? ?I had (and still have) great respect for NS, but their chips are
dropping like flies.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 01:36 AM, Adrian Nicol wrote:
checkout the Van Damme range,
I did. IMO, just ordinary... but 'good' cable. Like Perrier is good water... and you pay (a lot), for the carbon dioxide. Unless you want to pretend to be a Rolling Stones roady... which I guess some people do.
|
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 03:36 PM, n4buq wrote:
At 500mV and up, the 410C's input impedance is 100M.
Isn't that the DC resistance? With an input impedance of a few pF, the DC "impedance" should be much higher... unless it's a reasonably leaky capacitor?
|
I worked for National 1979-1990 and can confirm at least some of the problems were due to management¡¯s unwillingness to spend money maintaining (much less improving) process and equipment.?
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 9:29?AM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 1/5/24 11:41, Dick Benson wrote:
> I acquired one of these back circa 23 years ago. According to the
> knowledgeable seller it worked but had a bad time-base.? Ha!
> As some of you know, this engineering marvel has >100 SSI/MSI TTL ICs.?
> It turned out that FOUR of the IC's were defective.? All four were
> manufactured by National Semiconductor. Three of the 4 were SN7402N (HP
> 1820--0328) and the 4th was a National Semi 74160 (HP 1820-0899).
> See the trend ?
>
> If I recall, National Semi had a case of the "Purple Plague" in the
> 1970s, and these failures were likely due to this.
> A failure analysis was not done on the parts, but it seems to be more
> than a coincidence that all of them were made by National.
? ?At LSSM we do repairs on TTL circuitry all the time.? National
Semiconductor SSI ICs have, by far, the highest failure rate of all
manufacturers' ICs.
? ?I had (and still have) great respect for NS, but their chips are
dropping like flies.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: HP8510B Reading and writing A13 EEPROM, problem with Xicor x28256
I have successfully written at least 6 boards - only one has the failure described.? I'm (reasonably) sure it is weak EEPROM.
It will take me a bit to dig up my verson of Wayne's code, but I will re-post it for you
|
factory
Jeremy Nichols
Cubdriver