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Re: HP 5360A Counter

 

Terry
Essentially there is a 1 Mb/s serial data bus that feeds the?displays and printer port. I used a SXB processor (No longer available for some time) to decode the stream for the 7 segment display then used two ICM? display drivers ? 7209? Since I had all of the?data I created a rs232 serial stream of the?counter which is useful to me. Never set up an input process. That was some 8 years ago approximately. Have no doubt it can be done. Especially since everything can be programmed by diodes.

Today all of the functions?I did could easily be done with a PIC or Arduino. With the higher speed models available even capturing the 1 Mb/s stream can all be done in the micro. That would be a sweet design. Clean and simple. The biggest pain was wiring all of the?7 segment LEDs together and getting the spacing just right to look good.
Regards
Paul
Re: HP 5360A Counter

 

Hi Paul,?

May I please clarify something in?your post?

You?"added a RS-232 port" to your HP 5360A? Do you have any more details on that?

I have the HP 5376A Programmer for the HP 5360A. Sadly the programmer didn't come with the punched card reader. But if you are driving or reading your HP 5360A via RS-232 connection to a PC or micro-controller, it would be fascinating?to see what you're doing.

Kind?regards,
Terry.

On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 1:42?PM paulswed <paulswedb@...> wrote:
Hello to the group. I have several operational 5360s and they are reliable. But when they break it can be a heck of a job to figure out.
Thats because they truly were (I believe) the first computing counter. All those dip chips are registers and accumulators and it used diode programming. Could do calculations on and on. Certainly at that time if you wanted a general purpose counter it wasn't a 5360.
With respect to troubleshooting?I needed to do that on all of them. But then they work. I even went so far on one unit to replace the display that was missing (Hey $25 what do you expect) with a orange 7 seg displays and it looks nice. Since I had to add a micro added a rs 232 port also. The 1 MHz port is sort of a pain.
Its a great winter project to get one going. Take your time and tea/coffee?breaks and expect numbers of days to figure out whats?up.
There is also the extremely rare calculating keyboard that goes with it. The unit uses RPN calculation methods.
Best of luck
Paul
WB8TSL
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

John is right - checkout the Van Damme range, I've used several of their different cables as sensor leads - super flexible, very tough (built to survive roadies slinging things around on tour!) and a range of mixed wire types (coax, cat5, single cores etc) in one overall jacket.
Offcuts in the 1-5M range are often available on eBay.

On 05/01/2024 00:44, John Griessen wrote:
On 1/4/24 17:21, Adam Attig wrote:
Thanks all,? my only interest is in the test leads, not the RF probe.
I'll just focus on finding a suitably sized and flexible coax to fit,
Try audio cable.? Many musicians have gone to computer based mixers and have plenty to spare.? Probably cheap on ebay also.
It's super flexible.
Re: Agilent E4406A / 16700 CPU issue

 

FYI.

"Spread Spectrum" options for PSU switching, and CPU clocks, is in effect a low cost "Bodge" to fool the EMC emissions test receivers when looking at an emission that is over the "Peak" detect threshold, so it is re-examined using a "Quasi Peak" detector.? That has a time constant and bandwidth spec.

(The QP detector was initially intended to quantify the "nuisance factor" of early automotive ignition interference to AM broadcast reception.)

The "Spectrum Spreading" often used in modern electronics, keeps enough energy out of that detector to fake a pass, hiding some poor engineering.? (But is very bean-counter friendly, as is cheaper to implement than re-engineering a project, and as we all know, it's the accountants who are in control these days.)

For anyone using any radio communications gear near such a piece of equipment, all it does is spread the pain over a wide area in effect.

It is usually easy to deal with an isolated spur with a notch filter (manually or automatic) but much more difficult to mitigate a local wider band noise source, whatever the intended communications modulation scheme is.

Happy days?

73.

Dave G8KBV
(Who spent over 30 years working alongside the EMC testing world.)

--
Sent from a MicroSoft free zone:
Re: HP8510B Reading and writing A13 EEPROM, problem with Xicor x28256

 

This is the EEPROMs on A13 board.
It's a bit discomforting if you don't get writing to the Xicor x28256 to work properly. What I'm a bit curious of is how Wayne's code does the writing.

In my current code, I simply write a page and then wait for 10 ms to make sure the ICs are ready for next page. Perhaps a better way would be to inquire the ICs status signals (b7 and b6), thinking that internal write procedure may take longer than specified due to age.

If you have the code of Wayne's reader/writer, it would be good to have a look. Perhaps there are comments there that can tell some about his findings. As I understand, he must have been able to at least write one complete board since he managed to crack the FW key check.

Regards,
? Staffan
?
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

I thought they weren't coax either but they are. I verified that with my 410Cs. I think they did that to keep down the noise on low value readings.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

I'm curious about this coax aspect if it's on the 3 leads - not the RF.
As far as I recall, those 3 are just single wires, no coaxial content.
DCA/DCV/OHMS/COM - all single wire.? Only the AC probe has the
multi-wire content and that's the triax thing.

73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com

On 1/4/2024 6:44 PM, John Griessen wrote:
On 1/4/24 17:21, Adam Attig wrote:
Thanks all,? my only interest is in the test leads, not the RF probe.
I'll just focus on finding a suitably sized and flexible coax to fit,
Try audio cable.? Many musicians have gone to computer based mixers
and have plenty to spare.? Probably cheap on ebay also.
It's super flexible.
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

I'm curious about this coax aspect if it's on the 3 leads - not the RF.? As far as I recall, those 3 are just single wires, no coaxial content.? DCA/DCV/OHMS/COM - all single wire.? Only the AC probe has the multi-wire content and that's the triax thing.

73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com

On 1/4/2024 6:44 PM, John Griessen wrote:
On 1/4/24 17:21, Adam Attig wrote:
Thanks all,? my only interest is in the test leads, not the RF probe.
I'll just focus on finding a suitably sized and flexible coax to fit,
Try audio cable.? Many musicians have gone to computer based mixers and have plenty to spare.? Probably cheap on ebay also.
It's super flexible.
Re: HP P/N 1251-0135 Card Edge Connector, 15 Pin, 1 Row

 

HP P/N 1251-0135
NSN 5935-00-972-9464

90-6015-1207-00 95354 METHODE ELECTRONICS INC. DBA NETWORK BUSS PRODUCTS
90-6015-1500-00 95354 METHODE ELECTRONICS INC. DBA NETWORK BUSS PRODUCTS
91-6915-1500-00 95354 METHODE ELECTRONICS INC. DBA NETWORK BUSS PRODUCTS
SD615UR 95334 MILLER LABORATORIES

Part Alternates: SD615UR, 11065572015, 11065572-015, 12510135, 1251-0135, 906015120700, 90-6015-1207-00, 906015150000, 90-6015-1500-00, 916915150000, 91-6915-1500-00, 5935-00-972-9464, 00-972-9464, 5935009729464, 009729464
SD615UR 95354 METHODE ELECTRONICS INC. DBA NETWORK BUSS PRODUCTS


On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 8:56?PM WReeve <whitreeve@...> wrote:
Looking for a p/n 1251-0135 card edge connector in new or serviceable condition. Please contact me off-list if available: whitreeve@...

Thanks
--

Whitham D. Reeve
Anchorage, Alaska USA
---

Re: Agilent E4406A / 16700 CPU issue

 

Looks like I need to make a homebrew power supply, considering the cheapest replacement power supply is 250 dollars on eBay.

Is the power supply frequency synchronization pin basically useless? The manual says that it is 244kHz +/- 10kHz, with an FM rate of 10 Hz. This is divided by two inside the power supply, and the power supply switches at 122kHz. I can't do synchronization for the PSU as I'll probably use an ATX power supply, but I can do it for the buck and boost converters. However, nowadays we actually have spread spectrum power converters, and it seems like the exact frequency of the power converter isn't important, as the instrument converts 7MHz to 4 GHz to 321.4 MHz, then 21.4MHz, then 7.5MHz (the IF signal goes from 2.5 to 12.5 MHz). It doesn't seem like 244kHz is special or better than any other frequency. So I'm wondering if I can just ignore the frequency synchronization pin without losing much performance.
HP P/N 1251-0135 Card Edge Connector, 15 Pin, 1 Row

 

Looking for a p/n 1251-0135 card edge connector in new or serviceable condition. Please contact me off-list if available: whitreeve@...

Thanks
--

Whitham D. Reeve
Anchorage, Alaska USA
---
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

On 1/4/24 17:21, Adam Attig wrote:
Thanks all,? my only interest is in the test leads, not the RF probe.
I'll just focus on finding a suitably sized and flexible coax to fit,
Try audio cable. Many musicians have gone to computer based mixers and have plenty to spare. Probably cheap on ebay also.
It's super flexible.
Re: HP 5360A Counter

 

Hello to the group. I have several operational 5360s and they are reliable. But when they break it can be a heck of a job to figure out.
Thats because they truly were (I believe) the first computing counter. All those dip chips are registers and accumulators and it used diode programming. Could do calculations on and on. Certainly at that time if you wanted a general purpose counter it wasn't a 5360.
With respect to troubleshooting?I needed to do that on all of them. But then they work. I even went so far on one unit to replace the display that was missing (Hey $25 what do you expect) with a orange 7 seg displays and it looks nice. Since I had to add a micro added a rs 232 port also. The 1 MHz port is sort of a pain.
Its a great winter project to get one going. Take your time and tea/coffee?breaks and expect numbers of days to figure out whats?up.
There is also the extremely rare calculating keyboard that goes with it. The unit uses RPN calculation methods.
Best of luck
Paul
WB8TSL
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

Thanks all,? my only interest is in the test leads, not the RF probe.?
I'll just focus on finding a suitably sized and flexible coax to fit, as it does not seem impedance is a concern here.? Was hoping someone has done this already and could provide the RG-XXX number.?

Will post my solution, when i find something suitable...for posterity.

-Adam
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 10:04 PM, Ed Breya wrote:
If you're talking about the RF probe
The probe that comes with is? 11036A AC Probe (to measure AC from a few 10 of Hz to around 1 GHz?)... but with not very good accuracy at the low and at high end frequencies.... at the 'sweet' spot it matches the input impedance of the 410c.
The EA53 UHF diode tube, in the probe body, has one end of the filament connected to the cathode
The signal is taken between the plate and the cathode, by two wires inside a shield, and then a separate wire runs from the common point (of the filament, and the cathode) outside the shield and is connected to the shield at the plug.?
So there are three wires... two inside the shield, and one outside the shield.
I dunno if the part of the cable with the two wires inside the shield is bona fide 'twinax' ... but guessing it has an impedance of 100 ohms (since I remember it wasn't a large diameter cable)... I guess a shield twisted pair (which has about the same impedance) would do?
Anyway, if one makes up a cable, then the 'sweet spot' in the band, won't match the 11036A's 'sweet spot'?... if any of the 11036A's were ever manufactured to have that the 'same' anyway.
The hardest part, IMO, will be securing the 'cable' to the probe body, and connecting/soldering to the tube socket in there.
The EA53 may be unobtainium, if the one at hand is blown.
Ordering a 'special run of cable is no fun, and seems expensive for what it is. (when there is plenty of wire in everything everywhere to salvage.)... and probably doesn't match the cable original cable assembly?
In any case, I think Ed says it best.
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

At 500mV and up, the 410C's input impedance is 100M.

Barry - N4BUQ

From: "Roy Thistle" <roy.thistle@...>
To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:44:30 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help
On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 10:04 PM, Ed Breya wrote:
If you're talking about just getting a signal into a VTVM, then almost any wiring should do - it's low frequency, high-Z, and no Z-matching is involved
AFAIR, 410c has input impedance is 1 or 2 pf, at 10 Mohm.?

Re: 00105-6013 HP crystal oscillator wanted

 

I used to have two; both worked partially. The counter was nothing special but, connected as it was to what amounted to a 9100 programmable calculator, it could do impressive work.?

My two 5360s had different displays that were not interchangeable. I had hoped to use parts from one to make the other operational but it was not to be.?

¡°Heavy¡± is an understatement.?

Jeremy?


On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 1:43?PM Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
On 1/4/24 16:28, factory wrote:
> What happened to the 5360A counters? Not seen any for sale in the UK for
> years, I was warned they are very unreliable, but this doesn't put me
> off adding one to my collection.

? ?I have one, as does a local partner-in-crime, both not (yet) working.
? They're supposed to be pretty amazing counters in many ways, but one
of HP's more complex and ambitious designs.

? ?They're very heavy for their size; that may put some people off when
deciding to sell them.

? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP 54522A Firmware Re-flash Error

 

So I ordered some N28F010 150 Intel Flash Memory IC's from Ebay and will be attempting to replace the 1st Flash IC to see if this solves the issue. I'm assuming that the error is indicating the memory location of the failed flash writing to be the 1st Flash IC. There are 8 of these Flash chips on the board so I will replace this one and hope it takes care of my problem. I can't find any memory mapping documents for this board so hopefully my assumption is correct on this issue. Sure wish there was a schematic for this HP oscilloscope. Would make troubleshooting so much easier. I've searched everywhere and no luck finding any additional info except for the service manual that doesn't tell me what I need to know. Will post my findings to let others know if this takes care of this problem.

?
Re: HP 5360A Counter

 

I got one of these from a group member in the SF Bay Area years ago.? It needed a little cleaning, but worked perfectly.? However, the last time I powered it up, I noticed it wasn't behaving normally. Still haven't gotten around to pulling it out of its' rack.? Too many pressing projects.? I wasn't aware that they had an available keyboard.

-Dave

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 02:25:19 PM PST, Cubdriver <pbmanning@...> wrote:


David, I found one at Apex Electronics (a surplus place in California) some years ago, and eventually found a manual as well. ?I've yet to attack it, though, and have also spent years on the lookout for a spare without success. ?They were big bucks back in the day (list was ~$6500 in the early 70s, and $8300 for the counter alone in '76; add another $1200 if you want the time interval plug in too), and weigh a LOT - IIRC it was in the neighborhood of 50 lbs/23 kg - strangely, none of the catalogs list the weight and dimensions - its page in the several that I looked at ('72, '72. '75 & '76) was very abbreviated, like it was a rough draft that they never bothered to complete - no really clear list of specifications at all, but instead a note saying for the detailed specs contact them for the system data sheet, available on request. ?Strange...

I'd bet they didn't sell too many of them at nearly 2x the price of the 5245L/5345A. ?I suspect that they're about as common as hen's teeth at this point! ?Lots of DIPs in them! ?(And a wire-wrapped backplane, to lever off of one of our recent discuttions here on the mailing list.) ?Pics of mine here:

-Pat



?

> ------ Original Message ------
> From: bobradios11@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 00105-6013 HP crystal oscillator wanted
What happened to the 5360A counters? Not seen any for sale in the UK for years, I was warned they are very unreliable, but this doesn't put me off adding one to my collection.

David
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 10:04 PM, Ed Breya wrote:
If you're talking about just getting a signal into a VTVM, then almost any wiring should do - it's low frequency, high-Z, and no Z-matching is involved
AFAIR, 410c has input impedance is 1 or 2 pf, at 10 Mohm.?
Re: Agilent E4406A / 16700 CPU issue

 

I don't know if this helps, but it's always a good idea to check the health of all the 100k ohm and 150k ohm 1206 packaged SMD resistors on the little plug in fan controller board if you have an E4406A apart.

On mine, one or two of the 100k resistors had gone open circuit and this messed up the fan control. It was stuck on full blast. Replacing all the 100k resistors fixed this.

A few years later, one of the 150k SMD (1206 package) resistors went open circuit on the fan controller board and it caused the E4406A to hang when starting. The PSU wouldn't start up properly. The 150k resistors might appear OK if measured in circuit, but there is some circuit resistance across them. Once removed, one of them was open circuit. Replacing it fixed the PSU startup problem. I think there are only two 150k resistors on the fan controller board.? So would recommend all owners to replace them both and also all (about five or six?) of the 100k 1206 resistors. I don't know why they go open circuit, but this is a known issue.
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