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Re: HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

On 2023-11-14 09:57 AM, Joel Setton wrote:
Put a drop of oil (not WD-40) into the threaded hole and let it soak its way in for 24 hours.
FWIW, somebody on this group or the Tek group recommended a product called Kroil a while back. I bought some to try on a couple things I knew were going to be impossible to unscrew - and it worked like a champ. Good stuff, and worth a try here!

Steve Hendrix
Re: HP boxes: direction of air flow

 

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It is quite common for the casing to have ¡®positive¡¯ pressure in order to keep any foreign bodies out unless they are filtered through

Any grille/filter foam mesh etc.

?

HIH

Regards

Nigel

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harke Smits via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP boxes: direction of air flow

?

Hello Tom,

?

Normally outside in as far as I know. The fan will not blow against a dust filter, will it?

Cheers,

Harke

On 14/11/2023 15:48, tom_iphi via groups.io wrote:

Hi folks,

is there a general rule for HP boxes with fan how the airflow is routed?
Does the fan blow air into the box or suck it out of the box?
I have a 8517 with missing fan, so I need to know...

Thanks, Tom

Re: HP boxes: direction of air flow

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello Tom,


Normally outside in as far as I know. The fan will not blow against a dust filter, will it?

Cheers,

Harke

On 14/11/2023 15:48, tom_iphi via groups.io wrote:

Hi folks,

is there a general rule for HP boxes with fan how the airflow is routed?
Does the fan blow air into the box or suck it out of the box?
I have a 8517 with missing fan, so I need to know...

Thanks, Tom

Re: HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

Hi William,

Been there, done that -- but IMHO WD-40 is not the best choice. Its main use is a water repellent.
I would do this :
- Try to get any grease, etc ... out of the thread with a little IPA and a blow of compressed air.
- Then, orient the instrument so that the screw is above the shaft
- Put a drop of oil (not WD-40) into the threaded hole and let it soak its way in for 24 hours. You can use regular motor oil for that.
Then hope for the best ... and give it a try with any tool which will fit the (damaged) screw.
After that ... do let us know !
IHTH
Joel
HP boxes: direction of air flow

 

Hi folks,

is there a general rule for HP boxes with fan how the airflow is routed?
Does the fan blow air into the box or suck it out of the box?
I have a 8517 with missing fan, so I need to know...

Thanks, Tom
Re: HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

Unfortunatly the pot with switch has been discontinued by Bourns. Last one I repaired I managed to make one up using a switched pot of the wrong resistance value and the resistance track off a 470k non-switched pot. IIRC the switched pot came off a TENS unit that was in a box of parts that was part of a auction lot I bought for something else in the lot.?
Re: HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

William, on the buggered setscrew, I will relate what has worked for me - occasionally! I grab a piece of hard steel, like the tang of a small file or - my favorite - one of the old-style square cut concrete nails (they are harder than superman's kneecap), and I grind a tapered 3 or 4-sided profile on it. The goal is to fashion a tapered tool that can be tapped into the opening of the setscrew, with the ground edges cutting into setscrew to gain a little purchase. If you hold your mouth just right and the gods are smiling, you can apply a little torque to the destroyed fastener and get it moving.

Good luck...

geo - n4ua
Re: HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

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Hi William,

You may have to sacrifice the pot by carefully sawing the shaft off, then the frozen knob can possibly be worked on in a more accessible

location to prevent risk of front panel damage. Worst case may be to break the knob up (sacrilege) then dremel the brass insert away¡­

?

Then the pot can be changed as described by a previous post and a new allen screw fitted to the knob.

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HIH

Regards

Nigel

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of k6whp
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

?

Did that with no success.?

Thanks.?
--
William, k6whp
--------------------
"Cheer up, things could get worse. So I cheered up and things got worse."

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Re: HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

Did that with no success.?

Thanks.?
--
William, k6whp
--------------------
"Cheer up, things could get worse. So I cheered up and things got worse."

?
Re: Cheap and simple OXCOs upgrades on ebay

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

As Matt says, I shouldn¡¯t engage, but that rarely stops me. ?This is one of those uncommon arguments where everybody has at least one good point.? ?? The original TimePod 5330A was introduced in 2011 at a price of US $3999, with the explicit goal of expanding the market for PN and stability measurement beyond the national labs and larger institutions that it was traditionally limited to.? At the time, the lowest-priced competition was about six times higher, and the market was relatively small.? I¡¯ve never heard any solid figures (and couldn¡¯t say anything too specific if I had), but I think Symmetricom was probably selling 50 to 100 of the TSC 5120As per year.

?

Fast-forward a dozen years, and the 53100A is now priced at a level similar to the original competitors for the 5330A.? So in that sense, my goal of expanding the market to small R&D firms and serious hobbyists has not been entirely successful.? I¡¯m actually pretty psyched to see gadgets like Erik¡¯s tinyPFA finally come out after all this time.? They are scratching an itch that I ultimately couldn¡¯t reach.? Ditto for some of the more advanced open-source efforts like Andrew Holme¡¯s, which I¡¯ve pointed quite a few people towards.

?

In the 53100A¡¯s defense, each one passes through many hands between the factory¡¯s stockroom and the end user¡¯s workbench.? Each pair of hands adds some value and captures some as well.? Then there¡¯s marketing, which everybody loves to diss until they find out what happens when you don¡¯t do it.? These were key reasons why the original TSC boxes were so expensive -- reasons I didn¡¯t fully appreciate when I was the Young Turk complaining about how somebody needed to Disrupt The Market?.? The market is still a relatively small one regardless of price, which means that those HP-like margins that none of us like to pay are unfortunately required to make the business worthwhile at all.? At least that¡¯s what I hear from the folks in the suits.

?

Anyway, thanks for the very kind words of support from those who have chimed in.? The rest of you aren¡¯t wrong, any more than I was when I had the exact same attitude towards the existing players.? So, quit complaining, fire up your favorite CAD program, and start hacking. ?

?

-- john, KE5FX

Miles Design LLC

3120A/5330A/53100A dev

?

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Roger Costello
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 2:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Cheap and simple OXCOs upgrades on ebay

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Hello Roy,
apologies for a lack of clarity on my part. Before John Miles designed the PhaseStation 53100A he produced the 5330A TimePod, ?later marketed by Microsemi which was an excellent performance, but significantly less evolved version. Think the cost of a smaller car vs a full size one. It does everything I need, so the excruciating expense of upgrading is not on my horizon. Mine was an early production version test unit assembled by him and has been flawless. For 3 way hat measurements, I am able to get similar results to the 53100A but am limited to around 30MHz maximum. The same TimeLab software is used, but internal references were not an option on the 5330A.?

I do also have 6 of the 'cheap and simple OXCOs upgrades from eBay' 3 of which I have used as internal 10MHz clock upgrades for various instruments that are needed to operate in the field without a GPS referenced clock. They considerably exceed the performance of the older HP 10811's they are replacing.
Regards,
Roger (VK6HZ)

Re: HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

For the screw (it's a bit brutal) - try forcing a Torx key into the rounded hole.

For the manual, try Didder's site
HP 5315A With Destroyed Gate Pot and "frozen" Frozen Knob

 

Good evening.

Acquired a clean and decent HP 5315A that needs some work and would appreciate advise. Per below..

(1) I need to remove the front panel but have a knob with one set screw frozen and wanted to know if anyone had recommendations for unfreezing/removing the screw. It has been stripped almost round so my Tek Allen wrenches are a "no go". Have bathed in repeated sprays of WD-40, control cleaner, spit, sweat, etc. to try to dissolve the rust. Looking for suggestions. It's necessary in order to remove the front panel in order to get at the GATE TIME/DELAY pot.

(2) Aforesaid GATE TIME/DELAY pot is toast and will need to be replaced. I resurrected the following from an ancient thread:
Resurrecting this old thread in case anyone else has the same problem. A reasonable substitute for this pot (HP 2100-3719) is Bourns 3310H-013-504. It is 500K with switch, very nearly same size as the original (I had to make the shaft shorter by a few mm, but that's it). The main difference is that the leads exit toward the back, rather than downward, so you can't solder directly to the PCB. Other than that, it fits right in. Mouser sells it for 9 bucks, part number 652-3310H-013-504.
???? I realize this is tremendously bad manners but I promise I will maintain this thread to its end so it may be used as a resource as well. I have a few pots that I suspicion might work and wanted to test them out before ordering.

(3) Does anyone have a schematic for this unit? I got the official one from HP but it cuts off before the schematic section/

Sincere thanks in advance!
--
William, k6whp
--------------------
"Cheer up, things could get worse. So I cheered up and things got worse."

?
Photo Notifications #photo-notice

Group Notification
 

Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> added the photo album HP 11667A -- RLC version, inside : This is what's inside the RLC D-1814, exact copy of 11667A 18GHz Power Splitter.

The following photos have been uploaded to the HP 11667A -- RLC version, inside photo album of the [email protected] group.

By: Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...>

4145A and 16058A - Repair, Upgrade, and Miscellaneous

 

Hello,


As mentioned in another post, I purchased one of these instruments in status "for parts/repair". Here is a summary of all the issues I encountered and the repair/upgrade work I did. Sorry for the lengthy post, but I hope it may be helpful for others who are working on this device.

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  • Bad floppy drive.
    When the instrument arrived, it had written "Floppy Drive Very Bad" on the top cover. I decided to replace it with a Gotek.
    Details can be found in this post:??/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/139527

    To cover up the hole around the Gotek, I made a quick and dirty slip-on faceplate on my 3D-printer, and spray-painted both the Gotek and the plate in Rustoleum Gray (I had some leftover from a drill press restoration earlier this year). I will make another version with a smoother face (sanding/filling before painting) later. It's good enough for now:

?

  • Bad display module.?
    The display was very dim and completely out of focus. I did not want to deal with its repair right now and decided to replace it with a NewScope-5 LCD kit.
    I love it! As a nice bonus, it connects directly to a VGA monitor for a larger display. I used the following adapter cable to connect the three BNC outputs of the 4145A to the VGA monitor (H and V remain unused):?


?

  • The flat ribbon data cable from the graphics board to the display module was missing. I made my own with connectors bought on eBay:
    • 26-Pin (2x13) Female IDC 2.54mm Pitch Connectors.
    • 26 Pin Card Edge Female IDC Connector.
    • For the actual flat ribbon cable, I used remnants from an older SCSI cable I had.

  • Triax cables - I found a nice set of four on eBay. Not cheap, but better than fiddling around and trying to make my own.

  • SMU #4 had voltage offset errors. I don't have extender boards to troubleshoot and opted to buy a replacement board on eBay for now. Will try to get the defective board repaired at a later time.
  • Front panel push-buttons - most of them were "clicky", a well-known problem that has been discussed in this group multiple times. I took the front panel off and used the Isopropyl alcohol method for cleaning. They are "like butter" now.

  • Rotary Pulse generator - was dead. I used information from this topic "/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/6724" to fix it. I was lucky to have one of the correct bulbs in my pile of parts.

  • 16058A Test Fixture. I bought two from eBay:
    • One had the original personality board but no adapter plates.
    • The second one had what looks like a custom-made personality board with standard, 4mm banana jacks, and screw-inserts rather than the holes for plastic plungers for securing the adapter board. Its internal wiring was all messed up, and I re-did the SMU connections from the Triax connectors on the back to the banana jacks (that's all I need right now).

  • 16058A? Adapter plates. I started by cutting a standard perforated prototype board to size. I didn't like the way it looked and ended up designing two boards that fit my needs better (I ordered them from seeed studio. Corners needed to be rounded with a file to fit the 16058A):
    • Board #1 with a bunch of standard through-holes, customizable to all kinds of things. I posted the Gerber files for the blank board here: "/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/All%20HP,%20Agilent%20and%20Keysight%20instruments%20in%20folders%20by%20part%20numbers/4000%20to%204999/4145A%20Semiconductor%20Parameter%20Analyzer/Adapter%20Boards".

      As an example, I made a board to test standard TO-220 components in my 16058A with the banana jacks.



    • A second board holds a standard 18-pin socket and connects to 1mm jacks, modeled after the "HP 16058-60007 Test Fixture Dual-In-Line 18 Pin". I posted the Gerber files in the same folder as the first one. This is what the finished plate looks like:


    • Below are the various parts I used (besides standard 4mm banana jacks) for the adapter plates:
      • TO-220 test socket: AliExpress


      • 18-pin DIP Socket - I had a Textool ZIF socket in my stash
      • 1mm PCB-mounted test jacks: 18x Harwin H3185-05 (Mouser part 855-H3185-05)
      • Snap-in grommets and plunger (HP numbers 1390-0366 and 1390-0365) to hold the adapter boards in place - the HP parts are nowhere to be found. However, the Leviton 47615-NYP push-lock pins fit perfectly and are widely available:?


That's about it! Overall, an interesting and rewarding journey.


Regards,

Wolfgang Schraml

KI7PFX



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Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

Ok, so the latest PCB's arrived. This design is using the same prescaler chip as the HP design, with the same prescaler bias network.
I think I'll have to order a couple more parts, pending a raid of the parts bin, but soon I'll have a much closer replica to test out and see how it works.

Fingers crossed that the prescaler chips I sourced from China are genuine parts.......



Jared
Re: Some 3458A questions

 

Roy,
And this may need to become a sidebar, btw.?

I am not on the esoteric?side of knowledge on this (not a "pro"). To me, in a nutshell, it seems reasonable?to expect a reference to age logarithmically?(or exponentially, depending how you look at it), therefore tapering?off as it gets older and older. From that point on, not much aging left to occur (good reason to look for well "aged" Vrefs). But the "pros" take is that the aging curve is actually linear. There are some articles and studies that seem to support that. I'm not entirely convinced. It's entirely possible?a certain segment of a logarithmic curve can be approximated for a linear, but past a certain point, maybe it can be reduced to a parallel to the "Y" axis?...?

I have not been in the debate (or overall philosophical pursuit of these truths) long enough (decades, I guess?!... ;) - to really know which one it is. I think Reg's point (made quite a bit too heavily, if you ask me... but feelings are feelings) is that there's a bit of shyness to sharing?data that may end up proving one or the other side of the debate. I think all sides have great points to make, but there's a bit of "canon" pressure on divergent opinions that's not quite so healthy. And with all of these scientific truths, sometimes I think we look for crisp clarity reducible to a beautiful graph, where there may be a mess of reality to contemplate. Including through the physics of it.?

But all fun, nevertheless. Or, it should be!
Radu.?

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:57?PM Roy Thistle <roy.thistle@...> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 02:32 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
Very interesting. As I believe I was the ringleader of that debate
Hi Radu:
If you are so inclined, and have a chance, please explain the 'debate' (I did read some posts by you and Reg, on EEVblog)
What does the pro side claim?
What does the con side claim"
I suspect this is another rabbit hole... but, I don'l learn... inquiring minds just have to know.?
Best regards.

Re: Some 3458A questions

 

The link targets are HTML files that contain links to the actual PDFs. Follow them as intended, and you'll get the PDF handed to your browser. Save it from there. I've downloaded hundreds of manuals from Keysight over the years; I've never failed to get a PDF file. It works.

One wonders what was wrong with a simple FTP site. Oh, that's right, nothing! But noooooo. Gotta turn it all into a syrupy clicky nightmare.

-Dave

On 11/13/23 20:29, Julian wrote:
It's not just me then. Yes, you have to give an email first. I find that the Keysight files often download as a short HTML file, despite them saying they are pdf...
After trying various things, the top right right "Download" button and "Save File" usually works, but saving the "opened" file usually produces a short html file that won't open...
I'll try it again and note what works...
I am also using Firefox and Mint.
Julian
On 14/11/2023 00:27, Roy Thistle wrote:
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 10:50 AM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:

Keysight's PDF downloads seem not to work.

It works for me.
For instance... if you have a Keysight Account (You often need a Keysight account...You have to give them your email, and stuff. Sometimes [rarely] it words without it.)
Anyway... for instance... if you want to download "Keysight 3458A Calibration Manual"
You locate the pdf link on the 3458A tech support page, and click on it, or use "save linked content as", or the equivalent.
And then Keysight might ask for you email, and stuff.
After that... if they ask for that... there's a delay and the pdf opens in the browser... or is saved to disk.
Usually, it opens up in my browser.
I'm using Opera (or Firefox) on Linux Mint.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Some 3458A questions

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

It's not just me then. Yes, you have to give an email first. I find that the Keysight files often download as a short HTML file, despite them saying they are pdf...

After trying various things, the top right right "Download" button and "Save File" usually works, but saving the "opened" file usually produces a short html file that won't open...
I'll try it again and note what works...

I am also using Firefox and Mint.

Julian

On 14/11/2023 00:27, Roy Thistle wrote:

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 10:50 AM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:
Keysight's PDF downloads seem not to work.
It works for me.?
For instance... if you have a Keysight Account (You often need a Keysight account...You have to give them your email, and stuff. Sometimes [rarely] it words without it.)
Anyway... for instance... if you want to download "Keysight 3458A Calibration Manual"
You locate the pdf link on the 3458A tech support page, and click on it, or use "save linked content as", or the equivalent.
And then Keysight might ask for you email, and stuff.
After that... if they ask for that... there's a delay and the pdf opens in the browser... or is saved to disk.
Usually, it opens up in my browser.
I'm using Opera (or Firefox) on Linux Mint.

Re: Some 3458A questions

 

Be careful, the problem with cows is you always know where they've been.

Harvey

On 11/13/2023 7:44 PM, Roy Thistle wrote:
On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 02:20 PM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:

Grab your popcorn

I've got my popcorn... but, I'm waiting for the beef.
IME, with this sort of thing... the cow has got a pretty good head start.
Re: Some 3458A questions

 

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 02:32 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
Very interesting. As I believe I was the ringleader of that debate
Hi Radu:
If you are so inclined, and have a chance, please explain the 'debate' (I did read some posts by you and Reg, on EEVblog)
What does the pro side claim?
What does the con side claim"
I suspect this is another rabbit hole... but, I don'l learn... inquiring minds just have to know.?
Best regards.
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