Re: Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change
7. Sell it off to 230V country
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Re: Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change
Yes, finding or making an external transformer rig to make the 230V should be quite easy, especially considering that this is a pretty small (30W) supply. There's another option though, which is to find an equivalent COTS/OEM transformer of the right style and VA frame size as the original. If HP went through the trouble to have three different transformers for worldwide line coverage, and save the cost and space of the traditional line-selecting circuitry, then they would have likely used standard commercial transformers, or contracted a semi-custom design from a large supplier.
If you have a manual or schematics, or at least a good view of the innards, you should be able to see the style (one of four), and estimate the VA rating (should be around 50-100 VA) to search for. The main thing is to figure out the complexity - how many windings and voltages to deal with. For dual output range operation, there are probably two equal secondaries that can be paralleled or stacked to make the raw voltage. There might be a separate winding to make 5 volt-ish power to run the LED metering and readouts, or it could be derived from one of the main windings. It's possible that an additional winding could be used for overhead voltage and such, but likely not. If this was a very high volume product line, and cost was critical, the transformer complexity is a huge factor, so much effort should have gone into minimizing the windings and connections, which makes it look more like a common OEM type. It depends also on whether they bothered to have any inter-winding shielding and such - maybe yes, maybe no.
So anyway, if the transformer is simple enough, you may be able to find a close-enough replacement. There are three basic styles for low-cost units - the traditional layered winding and the split-bobbin, built on E-I cores, and the low profile "flat" kind with double split-bobbins built on C-C (or U-U) cores (BTW these flat ones automatically have dual primaries and secondaries, so are quite versatile). Another kind is of course the toroid, but this is usually in a higher cost range, probably not what HP went for here. Once you identify the style, VA, and winding situation, you can start looking for a match. If you can get a good view of the transformer, please take a picture with a ruler or scale for size reference, and post it. Good luck.
Haha - I have fond memories of making NI3, and many stories. I still have the original bottle of iodine crystals that I acquired over fifty years ago. Unfortunately, most of it has sublimed away through the plastic cap over the years, but there's a little left yet.
Ed
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Actually from 2.3 to 7 gig, aprox.
In the general block diagram, there is a detail of those figures per band.?
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Of course not
My mistake, those voltage values are present during mainframe command sweeps, in this case, from 10 meg to 20 gig. YO supose to do four sweeps at different freq spans to cover all bands.
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
just for clarification are you saying one yig can sweep from 10 meg to 20 gig ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of RubenRubio
Sent: 12 March 2023 13:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue* ? Following the service manual:
- Voltage across R1 is changing both in auto and manual sweeps, between 14 and 24 volts, from 10 meg to 20 gig, respectively.?
- Waveforms described in the figures are present at the test points given
- Also checked R1 and Q1 with DMM, both are ok.
So if you don't have any more ideas, I have a dead YIG oscillator :(
Regards,
Ruben
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Following the service manual:
- Voltage across R1 is changing both in auto and manual sweeps, between 14 and 24 volts, from 10 meg to 20 gig, respectively.?
- Waveforms described in the figures are present at the test points given
- Also checked R1 and Q1 with DMM, both are ok.
So if you don't have any more ideas, I have a dead YIG oscillator :(
Regards,
Ruben
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Re: Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change
George, Adrian & Renee
These are some interesting possibilities.?
Fifty five years ago when I was a curious adolescent and as Dad
frequently elegantly stated, "A menace to society,) the supply
would have wound up something only Dr. Frankenstein could
have conceived or it might have been a subject of my experiments
with odd mixtures of ammonia and iodine.
Anyway I did prowl around looking for compact 120 to 240 or vice
versa transformers in the 30-50 VA class. Unfortunately patience
ran out before perusing all the Google returns.? The most likely
outcome of? this is the supply will be used when? dual supplies
lashups are needed and be powered from a 230 volt circuit in the
room used normally for powering a pair of 3-500Z's.
Circa 1972 while on a year long, all expense paid, government
sabbatical in Southeast Asia, a side trip to a local merchant's shop
resulted in the acquisition of a few gems. One was a flat of 2N56
Germanium transistors. Another was a 110-220 desktop transformer
that allowed me to use the 220 volt soldering iron purchased on the
local economy with the military installation's provided 110 volt US
standard power.?
Despite the fact I stumbled across that transformer after all these
years in one of my myriad boxes just six months ago, it has evaded
further sighting. So right now the plan is to wait until a concurrent
sighting of both the transformer and power supply occurs, assuming
I live that long. LOL. Yeah, I am a hoarder.
Regards all
Chuck
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Re: Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian Nicol
Sent: Sunday, 12 March 2023 7:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change? May not an option for HP gear which tends to be 'compactly' designed, but I have a whole bunch of 115VAC-only test gear from the likes of Eico which I've modified to run on the UK 240VAC supply by simply finding a dual-voltage primary toroidal transformer of suitable 'VA-ness', ignoring the secondary windings and using the primary as an auto-transformer. They are pretty compact, low noise, low stray fields,? mount with a single bolt, and I've managed to fit them internally to valve testers, capacitor testers and even an old paper-tape reader/punch (which was designed to cope with 50/60 Hz but oddly, not 115/240V) and so on without any problems.
Adrian On 12/03/2023 02:33, Chuck Moore via groups.io wrote: The saga of the E3610A bench power supply continues.
Long story short. HP/Agilent broke with tradition and decided to
market a reduced cost power supply. Apparently part of the cost
reduction was eliminating the tapped primary power transformer
and selector switch for selecting the line voltage in use. Ergo,
the E3610A power supply was born. Three variants, one for
100 VAC a second for 115 VAC and a 3rd for 230VAC were
produced. Each voltage rating was assigned an option number.
?
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Re: Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change
May not an option for HP gear which tends to be 'compactly'
designed, but I have a whole bunch of 115VAC-only test gear from the
likes of Eico which I've modified to run on the UK 240VAC supply by
simply finding a dual-voltage primary toroidal transformer of
suitable 'VA-ness', ignoring the secondary windings and using the
primary as an auto-transformer. They are pretty compact, low noise,
low stray fields,? mount with a single bolt, and I've managed to fit
them internally to valve testers, capacitor testers and even an old
paper-tape reader/punch (which was designed to cope with 50/60 Hz
but oddly, not 115/240V) and so on without any problems.
Adrian
On 12/03/2023 02:33, Chuck Moore via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The saga of the E3610A bench power supply continues.
Long story short. HP/Agilent broke with tradition and decided to
market a reduced cost power supply. Apparently part of the cost
reduction was eliminating the tapped primary power transformer
and selector switch for selecting the line voltage in use. Ergo,
the E3610A power supply was born. Three variants, one for
100 VAC a second for 115 VAC and a 3rd for 230VAC were
produced. Each voltage rating was assigned an option number.
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Mine has a LM78 regulator, but it's the same difference. I'm really lacking the analog/psu expertise here, so I'm wildly hypothesizing. If anyone knows better, please chime in, I'd like to know too.
I think the SOT-23 could be a zener diode (one terminal NC) and it's part of the back EMF protection for the LDO. Another wild guess based on the marking on mine is it's 7.5V. This means that the LDO actually runs from ~14V instead of the 22V-24V input voltage. There are caps close to the LDO on both the +22V rail and the LDO input, with the zener in between. If the coils happen to pull the +22V during the switch the 7.5V separation between the power rails enable the first cap to discharge more while the second cap is keeping the LDO input stable. Maybe this is needed because the logic can be easily made to false trigger on any disturbance on the +5V and the PSRR of the LDO itself is not enough to do that.
?
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Re: Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change
Chuck you left off a
few options
5. give it to someone to play with/modify
6. quit wasting time---landfill/recycle
I am sure there are a few I missed, LOL
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð
On 3/11/23 6:33 PM, Chuck Moore via
groups.io wrote:
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Show quoted text
The saga of the E3610A bench power supply continues.
Long story short. HP/Agilent broke with tradition and decided to
market a reduced cost power supply. Apparently part of the cost
reduction was eliminating the tapped primary power transformer
and selector switch for selecting the line voltage in use. Ergo,
the E3610A power supply was born. Three variants, one for
100 VAC a second for 115 VAC and a 3rd for 230VAC were
produced. Each voltage rating was assigned an option number.
The units are tagged on the rear with their respective AC
power requirement. A label with check boxes for each of
the available voltages will have a box checked adjacent to
the required voltage.
As previously pointed out by another writer, there are three
different part numbers for ac power transformers used in the
supply. On a lark I gave Keysight's web based part quote
page a whirl. A very polite response was returned and advised
the supply was last supported in 2014 and declared obsolete
in 2019. The message from Keysight stated the part was no
longer available. Thus my plan to buy a 115 VAC primary
transformer to replace the 230 Volt variant fell flat on its
face.
So, it appears I have a few options:
(1) Try to catch a parts unit on e-Bay
(2) Use a voltage converter wall wart or control transformer to
provide the needed 230 from 115.
(3) Add a drop from the 30 Amp 230 Volt service in the room
for the single power supply.
(4) Cannibalize it.
Que Sera
Thanks for all the help from those that provided input.
Chuck
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
If that test fails (I or V not changing) check the drive V to Q1.
If that is changing but the I does not (or the V across the R), suspect Q1.
Mark
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Ruben -
Probably the easiest check is to see if the voltage across the?
resistor changes with frequency.? Somewhere in the service manual,?
they should give you the ma/Hz number for this circuit.? If that works?
out correctly, the YIG drive is OK.? If the current is different than?
specified, the problem is with the YIG drive circuit.? Also, be sure?
you are measuring the main YIG drive and not the FM coil.? Bu be sure?
to check the current in the FM cil as it also can cause problems?
(usually less frequently).
Cheers!
Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:
> Reading the schematics, I bring you some ideas, correct me if i'm wrong:
>
> - I must measure the voltage drop across R1 (one of the power?
> resistors in the plugin) and that will reveal the current sent to?
> the YO coil, isn't it?
>
> - The black heatsink on A9 board it's always hot. I think it is?
> hotter than it should be, should check Q1 too? Maybe the transistor?
> is shorted and it doesn't send sufficient current to drive the YO.?
> What you think?
>
> Regards,
> Ruben
>
>
>
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Re: Agilent E3610A Operator Faux Pas or Production Change
The saga of the E3610A bench power supply continues.
Long story short. HP/Agilent broke with tradition and decided to
market a reduced cost power supply. Apparently part of the cost
reduction was eliminating the tapped primary power transformer
and selector switch for selecting the line voltage in use. Ergo,
the E3610A power supply was born. Three variants, one for
100 VAC a second for 115 VAC and a 3rd for 230VAC were
produced. Each voltage rating was assigned an option number.
The units are tagged on the rear with their respective AC
power requirement. A label with check boxes for each of
the available voltages will have a box checked adjacent to
the required voltage.
As previously pointed out by another writer, there are three
different part numbers for ac power transformers used in the
supply. On a lark I gave Keysight's web based part quote
page a whirl. A very polite response was returned and advised
the supply was last supported in 2014 and declared obsolete
in 2019. The message from Keysight stated the part was no
longer available. Thus my plan to buy a 115 VAC primary
transformer to replace the 230 Volt variant fell flat on its
face.
So, it appears I have a few options:
(1) Try to catch a parts unit on e-Bay
(2) Use a voltage converter wall wart or control transformer to
provide the needed 230 from 115.
(3) Add a drop from the 30 Amp 230 Volt service in the room
for the single power supply.
(4) Cannibalize it.
Que Sera
Thanks for all the help from those that provided input.
Chuck
|
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Ruben -
Probably the easiest check is to see if the voltage across the resistor changes with frequency. Somewhere in the service manual, they should give you the ma/Hz number for this circuit. If that works out correctly, the YIG drive is OK. If the current is different than specified, the problem is with the YIG drive circuit. Also, be sure you are measuring the main YIG drive and not the FM coil. Bu be sure to check the current in the FM cil as it also can cause problems (usually less frequently).
Cheers!
Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:
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Show quoted text
Reading the schematics, I bring you some ideas, correct me if i'm wrong:
- I must measure the voltage drop across R1 (one of the power resistors in the plugin) and that will reveal the current sent to the YO coil, isn't it?
- The black heatsink on A9 board it's always hot. I think it is hotter than it should be, should check Q1 too? Maybe the transistor is shorted and it doesn't send sufficient current to drive the YO. What you think?
Regards,
Ruben
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E8364-60204 CPU Board (PNA N5230A) Boot Loader SW question
I am attempting to fix a PNA CPU board that is bad.? Some years back it was sent to Keysight for repair and we got a quote of something like 18K, so it has just sat around the office for a couple years.? It has the following symptoms on the CPU board on power-up:
1)? The three LEDs (D5, D6, D7) are lit (red)
2)? The other sections of the unit seem to power up and lights start flashing, etc.
3)? The unit does not beep.? The unit does not appear to load any of the SW.? No sign that the bootloader is being loaded or the BIOS.? The hard drive is not read and the hard drive light (visible from the back of the unit) does not come on.
I thought that the NAND memory might be corrupt, so I removed the Agilent SOP40 chip labeled 080-039-0000.? It is an ST 3V flash memory (M50FW080) that holds 1 MB.? I assumed that this would have the boot loader on it.
I requested the Firmware for my unit from Keysight and they were kind enough to provide me with a file of firmware (A.07.50.67) which they informed me was the most current for my unit.? But now I'm confused and stuck.? The firmware file provided is an executable and is 66 MB.? That firmware flash memory that I mentioned is 1 MB.? The disk drive (assuming that I was able to get it to boot from the disk) has a max size of 1.44 MB I think (3.5" floppy).? I assume that there is a different boot loader file which goes on this chip?? Sorry that I'm so ignorant here, but I'm completely lost at this point.? Hoping that someone can give me a little direction/advice.
One other question:? This unit was supposedly plugged in for something like a year prior to it being powered down and not being able to power up again.? There were some bad bootstrap capacitors in the power supply.? Is there any reason to suspect bad capacitors on the main CPU board?? I have an ESR meter (Peak Atlas ESR70), but I assume that one would need to remove the capacitors from the board prior to testing.? Will testing in place risk damage to other components on the board (or simply give me bad readings)?
Thanks,
Scott
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Re: Looking for Agilent PNA old FW repo?
Have you checked with Keysight?? I recently requested FW for my unit and they provided me with A.07.50.67.? Not what you need, but I assume that they will help you out if you put in a ticket with Keysightcare.
good luck!
Scott
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Reading the schematics, I bring you some ideas, correct me if i'm wrong:
- I must measure the voltage drop across R1 (one of the power resistors in the plugin) and that will reveal the current sent to the YO coil, isn't it?
- The black heatsink on A9 board it's always hot. I think it is hotter than it should be, should check Q1 too? Maybe the transistor is shorted and it doesn't send sufficient current to drive the YO. What you think?
Regards,
Ruben
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Thank you very much for answer. I guess your board is an extended version of mine : you have 4 solenoids instead of 3 for me (10+20+30db =60) but
do you know what is the 3 legs chip near the 8L05 regulator ? It is stamped C9Z and I have no idea...
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Re: 8350B *restoration adventure?*
Ruben -
WELL DONE - Amazing work and obviously a lot of work. The 83590 series have some of the highest current draw, so if it works satisfactorily with these it should be good for most if not all plugs. One possible exception might be the plug that drives the mmWave sources, but you can deal with that when (and if) it occurs.
EXCELLENT WORK
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:
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*Great news!
* My 8350B sweeper is now working! Closed with a standard power cord. You can see some of the montage steps in the pics attached to this post.
Finally, I decided to swap the old burnt main transformer with switching power supplies and a little transformer on a tight budget. A real challenge of wiring, space management, mechanical assembly and proper cooling. After a several hours of work, today I've done the different PS adjustments with sucess. The changes include new 230VAC fan (with more CFM), restructured mains wiring, removal of the old big caps to maximize room for the switchers and new RAM battery pack (w NiMH cells).
Without the external feeding, now it's a more comfortable unit to continue the repairing attempt of the 83592A plugin...
Regards,
Ruben
PD: special thanks to Yves Tardif , without your PS data?I could never have done this repair ;)
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Re: 8350B *restoration adventure?*
Great news!
My 8350B sweeper is now working! Closed with a standard power cord. You can see some of the montage steps in the pics attached to this post.
Finally, I decided to swap the old burnt main transformer with switching power supplies and a little transformer on a tight budget. A real challenge of wiring, space management, mechanical assembly and proper cooling. After a several hours of work, today I've done the different PS adjustments with sucess. The changes include new 230VAC fan (with more CFM), restructured mains wiring, removal of the old big caps to maximize room for the switchers and new RAM battery pack (w NiMH cells).?
Without the external feeding, now it's a more comfortable unit to continue the repairing attempt of the 83592A plugin...
Regards,
Ruben
PD: special thanks to Yves Tardif, without your PS data?I could never have done this repair ;)
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RubenRubio
Paul Bicknell
