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Date
Re: Does an HP Transformer Specification Document exist ?

 

? Hi Jeremy,
? Yes, that list served other purposes as well as what you mentioned.

? I need to make a correction, I am revisiting these documents and refreshing my memory of them.? I have referred to the? microfiche incorrectly.? The Parts Information Report (I tend to refer to this as the PIR) is only one section in the "Corporate Parts Catalog" or whatever it was officially called.? The information was intended "for internal use only".
? The section with the information Jeremy referred to was called "Where Used".? It may not have been updated very often, so it wouldn't get replaced very often.? For some reason nobody I know of outside of HP seems to have a copy.? While at HP I used it extensively to find stocking locations in Northern Colorado for repair parts and prototyping of chassis and such for non-HP equipment as well as Electronic Tools and test fixtures.? It was to me one of the most valuable sections of the Catalog in my work.? I used the other sections to find what parts are available, and the "Where Used" to find where it was stocked so I could order the parts from HP stockrooms.? You would look up the part number and see what divisions and product lines used it.? If a part was in your Division you could often get a part from the bin stock on the line, which was great if they could spare them.? The only real complicating factor was that parts orders had to be approved by the buyers at the stocking HP Divisions to make sure your order would not cause a shortage of parts needed for production.? HP usually had enough excess inventory to fill small orders, but some buyers ran their inventories very close to the bone!? Even finding who the buyer was could be a bit of a challenge.? Some of the hardest parts to get approved were chassis/case parts. There were several HP Divisions in Northern Colorado and more elsewhere in the State.? You could often have the parts delivered through the inter-facility mail system from another state if needed. Post HP it would have been useful to show what instruments have a used part you desperately need.? They why I have searched for it over the years.?
? These are the sections I know of in the Corporate Parts Catalog Catalog:
HP P/N TO MFR P/N CROSS-REF? (around 50 sheets)
JEDEC NO. & HEWLETT P/N? CROSS-REFERENCE (1 sheet)
MFR P/N TO HP P/N CROSS-REF? (around 23 sheets)
PARTS INFORMATION REPORT (around 205 sheets)
CORPORATE VALUE SUPPORT CATALOG (19 SHEETS)

? I don't have access to a WHERE USED set, so I don't know how many there would be. I am pretty sure the PIR was published quarterly at least back in the late 80's, early 90's but don't believe all the sections were published that often..? I am sure the last 'fiche was published long ago.?

I spent the day going through my 'fiche reader, it was lubricated before I got it at a scrap parts auction it and had finally gotten all jammed up due to the lube drying out, and it was really dirty.? It's much smoother and brighter now.? I'll try to look at the different sections later and add more info about what is in each one.? I'm headed somewhere with this subject, more to come.? Be patient, it is hard to think about parting with valuable resources that are like old friends, that's the direction I'm considering.? I still don't know what happened to George Hnatiuk's equipment, parts and documentation.? He had a lot more than I do as he was an active trader and had a business (ADC Colorado) supplying obsolete equipment to folks that still needed it.? I hope his stuff didn't wind up in the landfill and e-scrap in International Falls!

Clay
Re: OT: Not HP, but old school

 

The fiber interface that you saw isn't FDDI, it's ESCON. It doesn't perform network protocol translation; it's (more or less) a network interface for an IBM ES/9000 (or later) mainframe. The ESCON port is the upstream connection to the I/O subsystem of the mainframe, or multiple mainframes.

It implements one or more network interfaces (token ring, Ethernet, SDLC, and I think FDDI as well) and does protocol stack offloading for the mainframe for both SNA and IP.

In the context of IP, a part of the IP stack runs in this unit, offloading protocol processing responsibility from the mainframe processor(s).

Upstream, these connect to mainframes via ESCON (as this unit is configured) or parallel channel ("bus & tag") interfaces.

-Dave

On 2/20/23 17:33, Andrew Hakman wrote:
Does this translate between various network protocols? It looks like it has FDDI and Ethernet at minimum - I would think on the mainframe side it would have something else too (but no idea what)
On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 1:18 PM Dave McGuire <mcguire@... <mailto:mcguire@...>> wrote:
On 2/20/23 08:39, Szabolcs Szigeti wrote:
> Otherwise I agree, do not junk that device, judging by the
responses it
> seems to be a quite interesting part of computing history.
? ?And a *useful* network controller!
? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Advice on how to use an SA for test point troubleshooting

 

Can you send a picture of the PD schematic ??

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Tony <tonycox01@...>:

I looked at this the other way around and stepped through the frequencies
observing the tune voltage (is that what you mean by drive voltage?). It
was constant through the tuning range starting at 500MHz at about -12V and
suddenly swung to +13 at about 750MHz and stayed there for the rest of the
range up to 990MHz.

Tony


On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 at 21:58, Bruce <bruce@...> wrote:

Seems like a reasonable plan. The observation you gave is an
indicator that the PD is not controlling the VCO. Disd the VCO
frequency change when the drive voltage changed?

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Tony <tonycox01@...>:

Thanks Bruce. These are complex beasts - it¡¯s a bit hard to know
where to start the trouble shooting. I¡¯m going to check the 50MHz
through the freq multipliers and if there is nothing amiss there
I¡¯ll move to the PD section.

thanks

tony
Re: Advice on how to use an SA for test point troubleshooting

 

QuotiTony -
Yes - drive = tune.

My GUESS (that and $4 will get you a Starbucks) is that the problem is the PD. Check that the drive is adequate for both signals and try stepping your way through the PD circuitry. Hopefully it is discrete - if not it is a bit more of a problem to analyze. What I would expect to find is that one of the two outputs is working and the other has a problem.

Cheers!

Bruce


ng Tony <tonycox01@...>:

I looked at this the other way around and stepped through the frequencies
observing the tune voltage (is that what you mean by drive voltage?). It
was constant through the tuning range starting at 500MHz at about -12V and
suddenly swung to +13 at about 750MHz and stayed there for the rest of the
range up to 990MHz.

Tony


On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 at 21:58, Bruce <bruce@...> wrote:

Seems like a reasonable plan. The observation you gave is an
indicator that the PD is not controlling the VCO. Disd the VCO
frequency change when the drive voltage changed?

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Tony <tonycox01@...>:

Thanks Bruce. These are complex beasts - it¡¯s a bit hard to know
where to start the trouble shooting. I¡¯m going to check the 50MHz
through the freq multipliers and if there is nothing amiss there
I¡¯ll move to the PD section.

thanks

tony
Re: Advice on how to use an SA for test point troubleshooting

 

I looked at this the other way around and stepped through the frequencies observing?the tune voltage (is that what you mean by drive voltage?). It was constant through the tuning range starting at 500MHz at about -12V and suddenly swung to?+13 at about 750MHz and stayed there for the rest of the range up to 990MHz.

Tony


On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 at 21:58, Bruce <bruce@...> wrote:
Seems like a reasonable plan.? The observation you gave is an?
indicator that the PD is not controlling the VCO.? Disd the VCO?
frequency change when the drive voltage changed?

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Tony <tonycox01@...>:

> Thanks Bruce. These are complex beasts - it¡¯s a bit hard to know?
> where to start the trouble shooting. I¡¯m going to check the 50MHz?
> through the freq multipliers and if there is nothing amiss there?
> I¡¯ll move to the PD section.
>
> thanks
>
> tony
>
>
>








Re: OT: Not HP, but old school

 

Does this translate between various network protocols? It looks like it has FDDI and Ethernet at minimum - I would think on the mainframe side it would have something else too (but no idea what)

On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 1:18 PM Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
On 2/20/23 08:39, Szabolcs Szigeti wrote:
> Otherwise I agree, do not junk that device, judging by the responses it
> seems to be a quite interesting part of computing history.

? ?And a *useful* network controller!

? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Advice on how to use an SA for test point troubleshooting

 

Seems like a reasonable plan. The observation you gave is an indicator that the PD is not controlling the VCO. Disd the VCO frequency change when the drive voltage changed?

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Tony <tonycox01@...>:

Thanks Bruce. These are complex beasts - it¡¯s a bit hard to know where to start the trouble shooting. I¡¯m going to check the 50MHz through the freq multipliers and if there is nothing amiss there I¡¯ll move to the PD section.

thanks

tony
Re: OT: Not HP, but old school

 

On 2/20/23 08:39, Szabolcs Szigeti wrote:
Otherwise I agree, do not junk that device, judging by the responses it seems to be a quite interesting part of computing history.
And a *useful* network controller!

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: OT: Not HP, but old school

 

if LSSM is closer, please send to them by all means.

On February 20, 2023 2:21:24 PM GMT+01:00, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:

   Hey, whoa, no!  That's no server, that's a networking peripheral for 
IBM mainframes, of the type that we have (and love, and run!) at LSSM. 
These are not easy to find.  Please don't destroy that!  Please 
reassemble it and send it to LSSM, with that hard drive intact if at all 
possible.

                 -Dave

On 2/19/23 23:57, Nick Andrews wrote:

On Sun, Feb 19, 2023, 10:56 PM Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@... 
<mailto:nickjandrews@...>> wrote:


    IBM server I found in my stash of junk.? Soon to the scrap yard...



With best regards
Tam HANNA

--
Enjoy electronics, 3D printing and cigars? Join more than 21000 followers on my Instagram at

Re: OT: Not HP, but old school

 

Hi,
sorry for causing offence. Hungarian names are very long...I really like the museum and promote it a lot on Insta...

Tam

On February 20, 2023 2:39:38 PM GMT+01:00, Szabolcs Szigeti <szigiszabolcs@...> wrote:
Hi,

I normally don't go into things like this, but it is not 'Somecrap', but Szent-Gy?rgyi Albert. He was a Nobel prize winner Hungarian biochemist for such things as isolating vitamin C while working at Szeged University (Hungary).
The building complex where the Computer museum is called the Szent-Gy?rgyi Albert Agora.
So please, a bit more respect.

Otherwise I agree, do not junk that device, judging by the responses it seems to be a quite interesting part of computing history.

Thank you.

Szabolcs


Tam Hanna <tamhan@...> ezt ¨ªrta (id?pont: 2023. febr. 20., H, 14:21):

I would not bin this machine. Some vintage computing head wants it for sure.


Worst case, I can try to hit up the museum in the Szent Somecrap Agoda in Szeged.

On 2023. 02. 20. 8:50, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
There are some generic ICs, and other reusavble parts. I saw a SMD 40MHz oscillator module and som SRAM on the boards.

On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 11:57 PM Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:

On Sun, Feb 19, 2023, 10:56 PM Nick Andrews <nickjandrews@...> wrote:

IBM server I found in my stash of junk.? Soon to the scrap yard...

Attachments:

With best regards
Tam HANNA

-- 
Enjoy electronics, 3D printing and cigars? Join more than 21000 followers on my Instagram at


With best regards
Tam HANNA

--
Enjoy electronics, 3D printing and cigars? Join more than 21000 followers on my Instagram at

Re: read HP8510C LIF floppy

 

On 2/20/23 11:19, tom_iphi via groups.io wrote:
does anybody know if it is possible using the HP8510C to copy files from the internal floppy to an externally attached LIF drive?
I don't remember the details, but I have definitely used external GPIB floppy drives on an 8510C.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP 11664A Detector Cable

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello Jens,

Let me suggest a different approach. I assume there are numerous defect sensors out there, as they are easily destroyed. Don¡¯t ask me how I know. In any case try and get a defunct one and just replace the connector part. Two bolts is all. This part connects with three spring contacts to the body. And voila: a nice working detector is yours.
Best 73 de

Harke, PA0HRK

(Send from my iPad4)

Op 19 feb. 2023 om 10:17 heeft Robert G8RPI via groups.io <robert8rpi@...> het volgende geschreven:

?

The orginal cable will have been custom made for HP. The assembly is moulded, part number 8120-1788 and is obsolete.

As a source of replacement cable I'd cut up an old VGA? cable. You will get some spare coax cores. HDMI is balanced so not as suitable.
For new cable try Van Damme 268-304-020 which has 4 coax cores. You can use coax in place of the single conductors.

Robert G8RPI.
Re: strange issue on Agilent 54641D MSO

 

Looks like the most relevant pictures never made it.

Retry below.

image0.jpeg
image1.jpeg

Re: Advice on how to use an SA for test point troubleshooting

 

And stepping through the full output frequency range might give some interesting results.
G?ran
Re: Advice on how to use an SA for test point troubleshooting

 

Thanks Bruce. These are complex beasts - it¡¯s a bit hard to know where to start the trouble shooting. I¡¯m going to check the 50MHz through the freq multipliers and if there is nothing amiss there I¡¯ll move to the PD section.

thanks

tony
Re: read HP8510C LIF floppy

 

You might be able to use the same technique?that I used to copy firmware disks for the HP871X VNA's that I used here:

/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/All%20HP,%20Agilent%20and%20Keysight%20instruments%20in%20folders%20by%20part%20numbers/8000%20to%208999/871X%20A%20Firmware%20Creation%20Ver.%20A02.11%20%28older%20CPU%29

I thought that I also posted something similar on copying HP Logic Analyzer floppies which were also LIF based on the group but now I can't find it. It's probably buried?in the files section somewhere.

Sam


Sam Reaves
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Re: Advice on how to use an SA for test point troubleshooting

 

It is the SYMPTOM - probably a problem in the phase detector or anything between the pD and the oscillator drive.

You need to verify the PD inputs and output.

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Tony <tonycox01@...>:

Hi Goran,

The tuning voltage to the HF oscillator seems to be constant at -12V at 500MHz and does not vary until the set frequency drops down to 750MHz where it flips to +13V and stays there. Nothing in between. I guess this is my problem?

BW

tony
Re: read HP8510C LIF floppy

 

I'm in the US (a bit far away), but I can do it.

It can be done on any old DOS/WINDOWS machine with a floppy using HP LIF utilities - you do not necessarily need an 8510.

Cheers!

Bruce
Quoting Harvey White <madyn@...>:

The program is picky about the floppy disk controller, IIRC.? It expects direct control of the hardware rather than going through 47 different indirects to control something that is "close".

Definitely an old MS-Dos machine ought to do it.

If you have a friend with some of the HP logic analyzers with floppies, some advertise the capability of saving in either LIF or MSDOS format.? You might be lucky in having such a machine available, and it might be worth a try.


Harvey


On 2/20/2023 1:00 PM, §¥§Þ§Ú§ä§â§Ú§Û §À§â§î§Ö§Ó wrote:
It works, but you need PC?with?floppy and MSDOS installed.
At least, I cant start it under Win10 and virtual machines.


§á§ß, 20 §æ§Ö§Ó§â. 2023 §Ô. §Ó 20:58, Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd <drkirkby@...>:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 at 16:19, tom_iphi via groups.io
<> <iphi@...> wrote:

Hi,

does anybody know if it is possible using the HP8510C to copy
files from the internal floppy to an externally attached LIF
drive?
Else, is there any way to get data from the LIF floppy to a PC?

Best regards,
Tom DG8SAQ


I have never used it, but


might be worth looking into.


Dave
-- Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkirkby@...

Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3
6DT, United Kingdom
Re: read HP8510C LIF floppy

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

The program is picky about the floppy disk controller, IIRC.? It expects direct control of the hardware rather than going through 47 different indirects to control something that is "close".

Definitely an old MS-Dos machine ought to do it.

If you have a friend with some of the HP logic analyzers with floppies, some advertise the capability of saving in either LIF or MSDOS format.? You might be lucky in having such a machine available, and it might be worth a try.


Harvey


On 2/20/2023 1:00 PM, §¥§Þ§Ú§ä§â§Ú§Û §À§â§î§Ö§Ó wrote:

It works, but you need PC?with?floppy and MSDOS?installed.
At least, I cant start it under Win10 and virtual machines.


§á§ß, 20 §æ§Ö§Ó§â. 2023 §Ô. §Ó 20:58, Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd <drkirkby@...>:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 at 16:19, tom_iphi via <iphi=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi,

does anybody know if it is possible using the HP8510C to copy files from the internal floppy to an externally attached LIF drive?
Else, is there any way to get data from the LIF floppy to a PC?

Best regards,
Tom DG8SAQ

I have never used it, but

might be worth looking into.?


Dave?
--
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkirkby@...

Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom
Re: strange issue on Agilent 54641D MSO

 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

I decided to crack it open for the 2nd time and go for a mechanical checkout on the BNC connectors and "everything connected to them in the close vicinity.

Although I initially suspected the non-optimal soldering of the central BNC pin that proved to be a red herring.
Getting the old stereo microscope gave, literally, a whole new perspective. I managed to take some pictures via the microscope and let them speak for themselves..

Interestingly enough only K700 and K800 were affected, the other 2 relays soldering appeared OK. In any case I resoldered all relay pins and that seems to have fixed it. Using real solder, the Pb/Sn version I mean, not that newfangled RoHS rubbish ??

I'll keep the patient under observation of course but for now it seems to have been cured. A user cal has been completed successfully.

Wilko
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