Hi David, ? Congratulation for finding a way to calibrate this oscilloscope without the rare cal plug-in, and thank you for sharing your findings with the larger HP group. ? It would be great if you could write and share a detailed procedure to accomplish such task. ? Best, Francesco K5URG ? ? ?
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Re: HP 400E sticky needle
Krylon? is a.brand name for spray paint.? ?It comes in many colors.? ?A web search should find it.
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-------- Original message -------- From: Bruce <bruce@...> Date: 9/19/22 10:32 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 400E sticky needle
Krylon is a clear spray paint (pressurized can).? It is a product? name, perhaps a different name in Germany. Cheers! Bruce Quoting David Holland <david.w.holland@...>: > Clear acrylic spray.... > > https://www.amazon.com/Krylon-K01303A07-Crystal-Acrylic-Coating/dp/B001K65K26 > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 10:49 AM Martin via groups.io <musaeum= > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I have a dozen of these meters (mostly power meters) rescued from scrap, >> about half of them have the faceplate going in flakes, one or two badly. >> >> I've heard about a mysterious "Krylon" (that I don't have), about Milk >> (that I have), and about a method with the Pritt stick (that I have, too). >> What else? >> >> How exactly did you do it with the Pritt-Stick method? >> What is Krylon? Is there something similar I can find in EU / Germany? >> >> I'm tempted to try the milk thing... what is the best way to proceed - >> spraying it on the faceplate and let it sit in? >> >> I've repaired such a faceplate once many years ago and do not remember >> anymore how. I must have scanned it, and printed it somehow. I sold it, so >> I cannot check. >> >> cheers >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
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Re: HP 400E sticky needle
be careful of the
out-gassing from the adhesive- 77 has plenty of out-gassing.
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð
On 9/19/22 10:45 AM, SCMenasian wrote:
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When I was bringing a Tektronix 130 LC meter back to life, I took
a precaution which enables me to fix this problem a different way.
Since I have excellent macrophotography capabilities, I was able
to remove the scale and make an undistorted photograph of it. When
the original scale finally bites the dust, I will be able to edit
out the any developing flakes and other defects in the photo and
print it (1:1) on high quality paper, which will, then, be glued
to a thin hard aluminum sheet, drilled and cut to fit the meter
exactly. I'll probably use 3M Super 77 adhesive.
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Re: HP 400E sticky needle
When I was bringing a Tektronix 130 LC meter back to life, I took a precaution which enables me to fix this problem a different way. Since I have excellent macrophotography capabilities, I was able to remove the scale and make an undistorted photograph of it. When the original scale finally bites the dust, I will be able to edit out the any developing flakes and other defects in the photo and print it (1:1) on high quality paper, which will, then, be glued to a thin hard aluminum sheet, drilled and cut to fit the meter exactly. I'll probably use 3M Super 77 adhesive.
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Re: HP 400E sticky needle
Krylon is a clear spray paint (pressurized can). It is a product name, perhaps a different name in Germany.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting David Holland <david.w.holland@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Clear acrylic spray....
On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 10:49 AM Martin via groups.io <musaeum=
[email protected]> wrote:
I have a dozen of these meters (mostly power meters) rescued from scrap,
about half of them have the faceplate going in flakes, one or two badly.
I've heard about a mysterious "Krylon" (that I don't have), about Milk
(that I have), and about a method with the Pritt stick (that I have, too).
What else?
How exactly did you do it with the Pritt-Stick method?
What is Krylon? Is there something similar I can find in EU / Germany?
I'm tempted to try the milk thing... what is the best way to proceed -
spraying it on the faceplate and let it sit in?
I've repaired such a faceplate once many years ago and do not remember
anymore how. I must have scanned it, and printed it somehow. I sold it, so
I cannot check.
cheers
Martin
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HP8350B/8340 emulation for a 8510 system
Hello to all!
I was wondering if I could make a synthesized source myself using the available SMD components which could emulate the HP8350B (maybe even HP8340) in a 8510 system.?I see the synthesized sweepers are rare and very expensive, but the 8510 system units are becoming more and more available. I'm taking about a synthesized sweeper and emulator source for the 10M-26.5GHz range.
Does anyone know the details about the communication between the 8510 master unit and the source?
Which settings beside the frequency, sweep and amplitude parameters are also required and how often are they updated? Could I use a GPIB sniffer device for that?
There are at least two separate HW connections for the 8530B: SWEEP OUTPUT and SWEEP OUT/IN ... I guess not so hard to implement.
Another question is the implementation of the GPIB/HPIB protocol, which should be fully compatible (but we know already that various manufacturers of GPIB-USB interfaces have some bugs here and there, so it's not so trivial work).
Ideas, problems?
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Here at Sphere, we have slowly accumulated a LOT of Tek, HP, EIA and Euro CRTs for a wide range of instruments, and they take up a LOT of space, and now are very costly to ship and to store.?
?
Susan and I are now 73, and this makes disposing of these tubes more of an issue than before. We literally have an entire room filled with tubes of all kinds, and two storage buildings with walls stacked with CRTs. So, we are looking for suggestions as to how to move these on, before the only choice turns out to be recycling or disposal. The sheer bulk makes shipping difficult, so ideally somebody with a van needs to show up and haul away these items for pennies on the dollar. We are in West Kelowna, BC (Canada).
?
if you have any good suggestions on how to solve this, please let me know. I spent a lot of years curating a very good assortment of high quality audio, radio, transmitting, industrial and power supply tubes, and I hate to think of them in a land fill somewhere, knowing how many pieces of gear they could keep alive. Not to mention how many tube and CRT testers we have.
?
All suggestions welcome,
all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
https://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/index.html
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As I'm now dismantling my work lab, I have a few HPIB cables which I'd like to sell to a good home. I thought I'd offer them here first before braving more general ad. media. I don't really want to ship outside the UK ...
1pc '18inch'
3pcs '3ft'
2pcs '6ft'
I'd prefer to sell them as a single lot, so I'm initially offering them as such. Your sensible offers are solicited ...
Replies, if any :-) to my <chris@...> address, please.
Chris
Chris
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Re: HP 400E sticky needle
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have a dozen of these meters (mostly power meters) rescued from scrap, about half of them have the faceplate going in flakes, one or two badly.
I've heard about a mysterious "Krylon" (that I don't have), about Milk (that I have), and about a method with the Pritt stick (that I have, too).
What else?
How exactly did you do it with the Pritt-Stick method?
What is Krylon? Is there something similar I can find in EU / Germany?
I'm tempted to try the milk thing... what is the best way to proceed - spraying it on the faceplate and let it sit in?
I've repaired such a faceplate once many years ago and do not remember anymore how. I must have scanned it, and printed it somehow. I sold it, so I cannot check.
cheers
Martin
|
Re: HP 400E sticky needle
I have a dozen of these meters (mostly power meters) rescued from scrap, about half of them have the faceplate going in flakes, one or two badly.
I've heard about a mysterious "Krylon" (that I don't have), about Milk (that I have), and about a method with the Pritt stick (that I have, too).
What else?
How exactly did you do it with the Pritt-Stick method?
What is Krylon? Is there something similar I can find in EU / Germany?
I'm tempted to try the milk thing... what is the best way to proceed - spraying it on the faceplate and let it sit in?
I've repaired such a faceplate once many years ago and do not remember anymore how. I must have scanned it, and printed it somehow. I sold it, so I cannot check.
cheers
Martin
|
Re: HP 400E sticky needle
?I saved this one from the scrap heap. The face plate was pretty bad, I came out better than I thought it would. I just flaked off the parts that I new I couldn't save. One it cracked it started to curl so I just broke off what was loose, if it was going towards a number or line I used my exacto knife to cut it so as to not lose anything important. Then I just put clear Krylon over it to hopefully hold everything in place. Some of the face plate curled up so high the needle could not move past it. 
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Re: HP 400E sticky needle
Ok victory announced. The display remains stuck down after 24 hours which is good. The sticky was sorted by very carefully blowing the movement out with an air duster and then working around the armature and 0 and full deflection with an anti static brush. Works fine now. Thanks for the suggestions everyone :) 
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Re: Looking for Agilent PNA old FW repo?
Hello,
For 8357A the latest version was A.06.04.32 (PNA_A060432.msi released Aug 2007) if it has the 500MHz CPU and Windows XP.
If it has the 266MHz CPU and Windows 2000 the latest version released was A.04.87.01 (PNA_A048701.msi released Sep 2005).
I am also looking for these files but they are nowhere to be found...
Regards,
Razvan
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Calibration HP 54720D (make 54717A )
Hello, I will share new knowledge :)
Calibration values 54720D were lost after the battery died.?
Can be calibrated using any of the modules for the 54750A/83480A.
Successfully calibrated using board from 83483A.
Set the dip switch 83483A to 17, (54717A)?
?
I took out control board from the 83483A and inserted it into the 54713B module. I removed the N connector. I connected the rear outputs (bottom) trigger and (top) channel through the smb to sma reduction from the hole in the front panel. You don't need to use the limiter, it's there for protection. I marked the cables. The module must be inserted into each slot and each channel + trigger calibrated. Insert the module, start the calibration and follow the instructions on the display.
A 20db attenuator, tee, and 50ohm termination will be needed.
I then restored the 54713B to its original state, the module was modified temporarily for calibration. The procedure works and will restore glory to your unit.
It's sad that HP didn't think of a backup of the calibration values on diskettes, it would have been nice.
Should work with all modules for 54750A/83480A as long as they have a switch. The downside is that these modules cost quite a bit of money.   
?
more photos in the attachment...
?
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Radu -
Entirely possible, but I have (surprisingly) seen few serious problems cluse by power supply failure in HP instruments. Some but not many.
I would still take a look at the no DELTA_F problem first. Kinda speaks to a VCO problem or at least a VCO not changing frequency due to some control problem. Next best guess is a mixer malfunction (but I think this is less likely).
I would try to find out where the ~ 21 MHz signal is coming from and then see what controls that source. A likely culpert is a "stuck" VCO - and the problem becomes WHY is it stuck. A problematic VCO PLL / PLL detector seams a likely candidate.
Keep on having fun :-)
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bruce,
I think there are two independent issues (still) going on at the same time.
So my initial gut feeling there may be one single trouble point triggering
this eclectic set of fails we're looking at currently was probably overly
optimistic. At least as far as I can tell right now.
I wonder if the power supply event took a bunch of things offline with it.
It's the only way I can figure what seems to be two outstanding issues left
on the docket after fixing one.
Radu.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 7:24 PM Bruce <bruce@...> wrote:
I was going to point that out.
If it was the filters, the frequency would vary. The output might
drop off, particularly if no filter ws properly selected outside the
range where you see output.
I think the main symptom is that the frequency does not vary. Check
the VCO output for frequency variation, if the VCOs seem to vayr, then
I'd look at the inputs to the mixers.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...>:
...which doesn't explain the output stuck at 21.5MHz, but at least may
point out what's going on as far as the missing output outside of 14 - <
20MHz range
Radu.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 6:44 PM Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io <vondicher=
[email protected]> wrote:
I was just starting to focus on that, Ozan, as soon as I started perusing
Service Group L, as per your earlier point here. Thanks a ton for
narrowing
down the scope of the forensics.
To check the validity of this notion, I double-checked specifically the
19-20MHz to see if I see output (a bit of a blind spot in my earlier
measurements), and what do you know... Smoking gun! There's output all
the
way to instrument limit on 19.(9)MHz.
The filtering and associated servos seem to be the culprit here.
Radu.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 5:26 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
It turns out dividers are followed by a bank of filters. 14MHz to
<20MHz
(exact point is not marked) is one of the filters. It is possible
control
signals to the filter bank is not functioning. TP1 on the schematic is
just
before the filter banks. If it is accessible and you could observe
TP1, it
may help debug.
Ozan
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 03:29 PM, Ozan wrote:
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 10:59 AM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
I got some really weird data to report.
I've been playing with adjusting the levels and frequency.
1. It seems I am able to get an output between exactly 14MHz and
19MHz. One half a MHz up or down from there, output drops to zero.
2. As long as there's output (as above), the level adjustment seems
to be working OK. I haven't looked closer at whether the value
is exactly
what it should be, but it raises and lowers as I command it from the
AMPLITUDE controls.
3. The frequency doesn't change as I adjust per #1 above. It's
always
about 21.5MHz (says my scope).
Not sure what to make of it yet, but I am going to seek to determine
whether this can be triggered by a single module, pull it out and look
for
damaged caps (first line of defense).
Thank you all.
Radu.
---
Hi Radu,
Bruce's reply is the right way to debug. Looking at service manual,
over
the band of 10MHz-20MHz signal path through dividers look same so
output
going away just below 14MHz could be something with VCO loop. Output
staying at 21.5MHz, not changing is also pointing to the VCO/PLL. I
would
look at signal coming to J-2 of A2 "divider filter" in Fig 8-L-1.
Whether
it changes and whether it goes away below 14MHz setting.
Do you see any signal out at 2x this frequency, i.e. 28MHz-38MHz range?
Ozan
|
Bruce, I think there are two independent issues (still) going on at the same time. So my initial gut feeling there may be one single trouble point triggering this eclectic set of fails we're looking at currently was probably overly optimistic. At least as far as I can tell right now.? I wonder if the power supply event took a bunch of things offline with it. It's the only way I can figure what seems to be two outstanding issues left on the docket after fixing one.? Radu.?
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 7:24 PM Bruce < bruce@...> wrote: I was going to point that out.
If it was the filters, the frequency would vary.? The output might?
drop off, particularly if no filter ws properly selected outside the?
range where you see output.
I think the main symptom is that the frequency does not vary.? Check?
the VCO output for frequency variation, if the VCOs seem to vayr, then?
I'd look at the inputs to the mixers.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...>:
> ...which doesn't explain the output stuck at 21.5MHz, but at least may
> point out what's going on as far as the missing output outside of 14 - <
> 20MHz range
> Radu.
>
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 6:44 PM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher=
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I was just starting to focus on that, Ozan, as soon as I started perusing
>> Service Group L, as per your earlier point here. Thanks a ton for narrowing
>> down the scope of the forensics.
>>
>> To check the validity of this notion, I double-checked specifically the
>> 19-20MHz to see if I see output (a bit of a blind spot in my earlier
>> measurements), and what do you know... Smoking gun! There's output all the
>> way to instrument limit on 19.(9)MHz.
>>
>> The filtering and associated servos seem to be the culprit here.
>> Radu.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 5:26 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
>>
>>> It turns out dividers are followed by a bank of filters. 14MHz to <20MHz
>>> (exact point is not marked) is one of the filters. It is possible control
>>> signals to the filter bank is not functioning. TP1 on the schematic is just
>>> before the filter banks. If it is accessible and you could observe TP1, it
>>> may help debug.
>>>
>>> Ozan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 03:29 PM, Ozan wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 10:59 AM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
>>>
>>> I got some really weird data to report.
>>>
>>> I've been playing with adjusting the levels and frequency.
>>>
>>>? ? 1. It seems I am able to get an output between exactly 14MHz and
>>>? ? 19MHz. One half a MHz up or down from there, output drops to zero.
>>>? ? 2. As long as there's output (as above), the level adjustment seems
>>>? ? to be working OK. I haven't looked closer at whether the value?
>>> is exactly
>>>? ? what it should be, but it raises and lowers as I command it from the
>>>? ? AMPLITUDE controls.
>>>? ? 3. The frequency doesn't change as I adjust per #1 above. It's always
>>>? ? about 21.5MHz (says my scope).
>>>
>>> Not sure what to make of it yet, but I am going to seek to determine
>>> whether this can be triggered by a single module, pull it out and look for
>>> damaged caps (first line of defense).
>>>
>>> Thank you all.
>>> Radu.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Hi Radu,
>>> Bruce's reply is the right way to debug. Looking at service manual, over
>>> the band of 10MHz-20MHz signal path through dividers look same so output
>>> going away just below 14MHz could be something with VCO loop. Output
>>> staying at 21.5MHz, not changing is also pointing to the VCO/PLL. I would
>>> look at signal coming to J-2 of A2 "divider filter" in Fig 8-L-1.? Whether
>>> it changes and whether it goes away below 14MHz setting.
>>>
>>> Do you see any signal out at 2x this frequency, i.e. 28MHz-38MHz range?
>>>
>>> Ozan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
I was going to point that out.
If it was the filters, the frequency would vary. The output might drop off, particularly if no filter ws properly selected outside the range where you see output.
I think the main symptom is that the frequency does not vary. Check the VCO output for frequency variation, if the VCOs seem to vayr, then I'd look at the inputs to the mixers.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
...which doesn't explain the output stuck at 21.5MHz, but at least may
point out what's going on as far as the missing output outside of 14 - <
20MHz range
Radu.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 6:44 PM Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io <vondicher=
[email protected]> wrote:
I was just starting to focus on that, Ozan, as soon as I started perusing
Service Group L, as per your earlier point here. Thanks a ton for narrowing
down the scope of the forensics.
To check the validity of this notion, I double-checked specifically the
19-20MHz to see if I see output (a bit of a blind spot in my earlier
measurements), and what do you know... Smoking gun! There's output all the
way to instrument limit on 19.(9)MHz.
The filtering and associated servos seem to be the culprit here.
Radu.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 5:26 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
It turns out dividers are followed by a bank of filters. 14MHz to <20MHz
(exact point is not marked) is one of the filters. It is possible control
signals to the filter bank is not functioning. TP1 on the schematic is just
before the filter banks. If it is accessible and you could observe TP1, it
may help debug.
Ozan
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 03:29 PM, Ozan wrote:
On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 10:59 AM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
I got some really weird data to report.
I've been playing with adjusting the levels and frequency.
1. It seems I am able to get an output between exactly 14MHz and
19MHz. One half a MHz up or down from there, output drops to zero.
2. As long as there's output (as above), the level adjustment seems
to be working OK. I haven't looked closer at whether the value is exactly
what it should be, but it raises and lowers as I command it from the
AMPLITUDE controls.
3. The frequency doesn't change as I adjust per #1 above. It's always
about 21.5MHz (says my scope).
Not sure what to make of it yet, but I am going to seek to determine
whether this can be triggered by a single module, pull it out and look for
damaged caps (first line of defense).
Thank you all.
Radu.
---
Hi Radu,
Bruce's reply is the right way to debug. Looking at service manual, over
the band of 10MHz-20MHz signal path through dividers look same so output
going away just below 14MHz could be something with VCO loop. Output
staying at 21.5MHz, not changing is also pointing to the VCO/PLL. I would
look at signal coming to J-2 of A2 "divider filter" in Fig 8-L-1. Whether
it changes and whether it goes away below 14MHz setting.
Do you see any signal out at 2x this frequency, i.e. 28MHz-38MHz range?
Ozan
|
54502A toasted attenuator replacement
Hello all, I'm helping a friend of mine, an ECE student at a local university, repair some equipment he recently got out of a lab's junk pile. Arguably the best bit of kit out of the whole stack is a 54502A, but it has some problems with the inputs. Channel 2's input attenuator seems to get stuck at either 50 or 1M ohm, and is shorted. Maybe something as simple as bad relays? Channel 1 is completely toasted.
Does anyone have any recommendations on where we can get our hands on replacement attenuators? The unit passes all self tests otherwise and seems to be in great physical shape.
Thanks! John KC1QLN
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Martin
