Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations, 8663A Last Rev Mnl
There is a rather simple solution: Scan only the oversized pages. Typically, the theory sections only change slightly over the life of an instrument. You could scan some of the sections referring to debugging techniques that changed over the life of the instrument and possibly the updates section. No need to scan the entire manual.
Cheers!
Brucd
Quoting Matt Huszagh <huszaghmatt@...>:
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"Richard Parrish" <Richard@...> writes:
I'm sure that these are rare. I was in a place 10 years ago that I was able to purchase a number of the end-of-life manuals with all the updates, expensive but I thought it worth it. I couldn't do it again even if they were available. The irritating thing about the manuals is that Agilent expanded single page schematics and put them in the large page format which then made a single page schematic, onto 3 11.5x18" pages; hence the large size of the manuals. I wouldn't have an issue with having someone who has the right equipment scan the manuals but it's going to be a lot of work for someone since the theory and parts lists are on 11x8.5" pages followed by the schematics or block diagrams on 11x18" (?) pages.
I purchased the full set from Keysight which is 4 volumes but I can't locate Vol1 at the moment. Thanks Richard, it's generous of you to be open to this. I've looped in
Dave at Artek who scans these manuals as a business and does a nice
job. I expect he has a scanner that can do the large pages in one piece
and can stitch the parts together, but he can confirm. If not, I've been
looking at a used scanner that can do that size (which I've been
considering anyway) and do them myself. I know of software that can
stitch images like this together and would be willing to put in the
effort, though I've never used this before so will have to give it a
test run first.
Where are you located? Obviously something local would be preferred, but
would you be open to shipping them (which others can subsidize) if not?
Matt
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Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations, 8663A Last Rev Mnl
"Richard Parrish" <Richard@...> writes: I'm sure that these are rare. I was in a place 10 years ago that I was able to purchase a number of the end-of-life manuals with all the updates, expensive but I thought it worth it. I couldn't do it again even if they were available. The irritating thing about the manuals is that Agilent expanded single page schematics and put them in the large page format which then made a single page schematic, onto 3 11.5x18" pages; hence the large size of the manuals. I wouldn't have an issue with having someone who has the right equipment scan the manuals but it's going to be a lot of work for someone since the theory and parts lists are on 11x8.5" pages followed by the schematics or block diagrams on 11x18" (?) pages.
I purchased the full set from Keysight which is 4 volumes but I can't locate Vol1 at the moment. Thanks Richard, it's generous of you to be open to this. I've looped in Dave at Artek who scans these manuals as a business and does a nice job. I expect he has a scanner that can do the large pages in one piece and can stitch the parts together, but he can confirm. If not, I've been looking at a used scanner that can do that size (which I've been considering anyway) and do them myself. I know of software that can stitch images like this together and would be willing to put in the effort, though I've never used this before so will have to give it a test run first. Where are you located? Obviously something local would be preferred, but would you be open to shipping them (which others can subsidize) if not? Matt
|
Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations, 8663A Last Rev Mnl
I'm sure that these are rare.? I was in a place 10 years ago that I was able to purchase a number?of the end-of-life manuals with all the updates, expensive but I thought it worth it.? I couldn't do it again even if they were available.? The irritating thing
about the manuals is that Agilent expanded single page schematics and put them in the large page format which then made a single page schematic, onto 3 11.5x18" pages; hence the large size of the manuals.? I wouldn't have an issue with having someone who has
the right equipment scan the manuals but it's going to?be a lot of work for someone since the theory and parts lists are on 11x8.5" pages followed by the schematics or block diagrams on 11x18" (?) pages.
I purchased the full set from Keysight which is 4 volumes but I can't locate Vol1 at the moment.
Richard
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Show quoted text
I¡¯d be happy to support that if it is possible to get it scanned.
Tony
"Richard Parrish" <Richard@...> writes:
> I just looked through my manuals and found the latest/last service manual for the 8663A which covers sn 3423 and greater.? ?For the most part, this manual also covers a good percentage of the information for the later model 8662As.? Looking thru it, it does
cover the later 2 attenuator units and the last version of the power supply section.? It is a BIG manual, measuring about 9" stacked one on top of the other.? I 'think' that the manual pn is 08663-90134 but I can't be sure because I'm missing V1 of the? 4-volume
service manual set.? This manual was labeled Agilent, not HP.? I know that 'some' of the information was in the yellow sheets in the later HP manuals.
Hi Richard,
It's great news this manual still exists. I spent a while looking for
this, including asking Keysight and a couple second hand vendors and
couldn't track it down anywhere. As far as I can tell this is pretty
rare. Do you think you might be able to scan and share it so that this
can be preserved? Or, maybe a few of us could chip in to get it scanned
by someone such as Dave at Artek?
Matt
--
|
Re: HP 8970B battery backup troubleshooting
"Harvey White" <madyn@...> writes: Just looking at the schematic, I wonder about a few things:
did you measure the current through (or voltage drop across) R23?
This would be both in power on and power off.
I'm assuming (as a fault mode) that the switch circuit may fail, or be
partially on when power is off.? This would be either (or both) CR3
failing or Q1 failing, which makes the battery try to drive the +5 volt
line all by itself.? In that case, I can see the backup battery going to
zero in very little time at all. This is a good point. The current through R23 when off is in the low nA range, same as when the instrument is powered on. This seems to be consistent with the measurements performed with the external supply. I also measured the DC resistance through the parallel path of CR3 (reverse bias) and Q1 and it seems to be an open circuit; at the very least > tens of MOhm. As an additional check, I measured the forward drop of CR3 which came out to just under 0.6V so that seems fine. Anyway, I think I *may* have identified the culprit. There's some corrosion on the battery holder that I think could have effectively removed the battery from the circuit. I wasn't measuring the voltage across the actual battery terminals, but at accessible connection points on the PCB. So, I think the full reserve supply was being powered by the capacitor, which is why it couldn't meet the current demands. I applied some deoxit to the battery holder terminals and I now see a steady 3.18V measured on the PCB at the connections to the battery. Matt
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Re: HP 8970B battery backup troubleshooting
Just looking at the schematic, I wonder about a few things:
did you measure the current through (or voltage drop across) R23?
This would be both in power on and power off.
I'm assuming (as a fault mode) that the switch circuit may fail, or be partially on when power is off.? This would be either (or both) CR3 failing or Q1 failing, which makes the battery try to drive the +5 volt line all by itself.? In that case, I can see the backup battery going to zero in very little time at all.
Harvey
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Show quoted text
On 6/4/2022 1:15 AM, Matt Huszagh wrote: I received a faulty HP 8970B displaying errors (E80 and E26) related to
backup battery / attenuator calibration data troubles. I measured the
voltage across the 3V coin cell in-circuit to be about 2.93 V. However,
the replacement, which showed 3.4V out of circuit, quickly dropped to
about 2.5V in circuit. Sure enough, when I checked the next morning E80
had reappeared (indicating the NVRAM lost data) and the battery voltage
was now only a few tens of mV. Now, when I use a fresh battery the
voltage drops quickly to basically 0.
This obviously sounds like something's shorting the output but when I
power it externally and place an inline meter in current mode, the
current only reads about 4nA. The power draw of the NVRAM in standby is
spec'd at 10nA typical, so this seems reasonable. Also, the NVRAM seems
to work fine when the unit is powered on (I can program new attenuator
calibration data). But if there's no short at the output, why are my
batteries dying? I've attached the battery portion of the schematic. VB
is attached to the TC5564APL-15 NVRAM supply.
FYI, I've run the 8970B through a bunch of the operator's checks and
it's passed everything, so there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.
It's also worth mentioning that I think I saw a pretty significant
dielectric absorption effect from the tantalum across the battery. I
noticed after the first time I powered the circuit externally that when
I measured the voltage across the battery supply terminals with no
battery (or supply) in place, the voltage read >7V (into a >10GOhm
meter). This persisted after I shorted and released the supply
terminals. When I removed the tantalum this voltage went away so I think
it's a dielectric absorption or memory effect. This is doubly strange to
me, because if this can supply the voltage on its own, why can't the
battery + cap do it?
Matt
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Re: HP 8970B battery backup troubleshooting
"Askild" <megafluffy@...> writes: I don't know the 8970B, so this is just my general thoughts.
Just to verify that I fully understand. When you measured the lover voltage
of the replaced battery, this was measured at the battery terminals, with
the instrument off, and not after the CR4 diode right? That's correct. Measured at the battery terminals with a >10GOhm input impedance voltmeter. Instrument off and disconnected from line. And when you measured 4nA you added an external power supply (or battery)
with current measure inline, connected to the battery terminals, and the
instrument was off? Also correct. I used an HP 6632A DC power supply set to 3V (also tried 3.3V) and 20mA current limit with my multimeter in line in current mode. Battery obviously removed. Instrument off and disconnected from line. If I'm correct in my assumptions, you might look more at what you did
between these measurements.
Did you remove a card to replace battery and put it back?
Did you remove any cover? These results do suggest measurement/operator error. I can't yet think of anything else to explain it. But, I must have performed the measurements 5 or more times because they seemed so strange and got consistent results. I didn't actually do anything to the instrument other than remove and replace the battery. To access this battery, I remove the cover and the digital control board then folds out, but is still electrically connected to the rest of the instrument. During all these measurements the cover remained off and the control board remained folded out. None of that setup changed between measurements. I'll try both measurements again though just to be sure, and I'll make sure nothing else about the setup changes. You could also do a current measurement over a longer time, maybe for some
reason the current consumption go up after the instrument has been off for
a while. Yeah I was wondering this when I was wrapping up last night. Worth investigating either way. I'm going to look into programming a setup over GPIB so I can get a plot of the voltage and current over time with good time-granularity. Maybe that will provide a clearer picture. Could it be related to the content of the memory? Some bits set make
current consumption go up, but now I'm just guessing wild. That would seem strange, but maybe. Let us know if you find out any more Will do, and thanks for your thoughts. The only update so far (which is not all that relevant to this I think), is that the capacitor across the battery (C13) seems totally fine despite the memory effect I measured in it. I measured it on my 4192A out of circuit and capacitance is 10.5u, ESR is 0.5Ohm and insulation resistance is >GOhm, and when measured on my 4192 doesn't appear to be much of a function of bias voltage up to the rated 20V level. Matt
|
Hi, I have a version for serial number 2251A and 2309A. This is the original hard copy manual. If you need a particular section of this manual, I can scan that part and return it to you as a PDF. ? -Yves ? ? I am looking for the 8350B service manual for S / N prefix lower than 26XXX, I have P / N 230400-216, on the net I find only the print of October 92 with P / N 08350-90092, I need the one printed previously
|
I am looking for the 8350B service manual for S / N prefix lower than 26XXX, I have P / N 230400-216, on the net I find only the print of October 92 with P / N 08350-90092, I need the one printed previously
|
Re: HP 8970B battery backup troubleshooting
Hi Matt,
I don't know the 8970B, so this is just my general thoughts. Just to verify that I fully understand. When you measured the lover voltage of the replaced battery, this was measured at the battery terminals, with the instrument off, and not after the CR4 diode right? And when you measured 4nA you added an external power supply (or battery) with current measure inline, connected to the battery terminals, and the instrument was off?
If I'm correct in my assumptions, you might look more at what you did between these measurements.
Did you remove a card to replace battery and put it back? Did you remove any cover?
You could also do a current measurement over a longer time, maybe for some reason the current consumption go up after the instrument has been off for a while. Could it be related to the content of the memory? Some bits set make current consumption go up, but now I'm just guessing wild.
Let us know if you find out any more
Regards, Askild
I received a faulty HP 8970B displaying errors (E80 and E26) related to
backup battery / attenuator calibration data troubles. I measured the
voltage across the 3V coin cell in-circuit to be about 2.93 V. However,
the replacement, which showed 3.4V out of circuit, quickly dropped to
about 2.5V in circuit. Sure enough, when I checked the next morning E80
had reappeared (indicating the NVRAM lost data) and the battery voltage
was now only a few tens of mV. Now, when I use a fresh battery the
voltage drops quickly to basically 0.
This obviously sounds like something's shorting the output but when I
power it externally and place an inline meter in current mode, the
current only reads about 4nA. The power draw of the NVRAM in standby is
spec'd at 10nA typical, so this seems reasonable. Also, the NVRAM seems
to work fine when the unit is powered on (I can program new attenuator
calibration data). But if there's no short at the output, why are my
batteries dying? I've attached the battery portion of the schematic. VB
is attached to the TC5564APL-15 NVRAM supply.
FYI, I've run the 8970B through a bunch of the operator's checks and
it's passed everything, so there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.
It's also worth mentioning that I think I saw a pretty significant
dielectric absorption effect from the tantalum across the battery. I
noticed after the first time I powered the circuit externally that when
I measured the voltage across the battery supply terminals with no
battery (or supply) in place, the voltage read >7V (into a >10GOhm
meter). This persisted after I shorted and released the supply
terminals. When I removed the tantalum this voltage went away so I think
it's a dielectric absorption or memory effect. This is doubly strange to
me, because if this can supply the voltage on its own, why can't the
battery + cap do it?
Matt
|
Re: New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
Files uploaded
"Tantalum, film" should be "tantalum, foil" - typo and changed in file.
Hal
|
Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations
I¡¯d be happy to support that if it is possible to get it scanned.
Tony
"Richard Parrish" <Richard@...> writes:
> I just looked through my manuals and found the latest/last service manual for the 8663A which covers sn 3423 and greater.? ?For the most part, this manual also covers a good percentage of the information for the later model 8662As.? Looking thru it, it does cover the later 2 attenuator units and the last version of the power supply section.? It is a BIG manual, measuring about 9" stacked one on top of the other.? I 'think' that the manual pn is 08663-90134 but I can't be sure because I'm missing V1 of the? 4-volume service manual set.? This manual was labeled Agilent, not HP.? I know that 'some' of the information was in the yellow sheets in the later HP manuals.
Hi Richard,
It's great news this manual still exists. I spent a while looking for
this, including asking Keysight and a couple second hand vendors and
couldn't track it down anywhere. As far as I can tell this is pretty
rare. Do you think you might be able to scan and share it so that this
can be preserved? Or, maybe a few of us could chip in to get it scanned
by someone such as Dave at Artek?
Matt
|
Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations
"Richard Parrish" <Richard@...> writes: I just looked through my manuals and found the latest/last service manual for the 8663A which covers sn 3423 and greater. For the most part, this manual also covers a good percentage of the information for the later model 8662As. Looking thru it, it does cover the later 2 attenuator units and the last version of the power supply section. It is a BIG manual, measuring about 9" stacked one on top of the other. I 'think' that the manual pn is 08663-90134 but I can't be sure because I'm missing V1 of the? 4-volume service manual set. This manual was labeled Agilent, not HP. I know that 'some' of the information was in the yellow sheets in the later HP manuals. Hi Richard, It's great news this manual still exists. I spent a while looking for this, including asking Keysight and a couple second hand vendors and couldn't track it down anywhere. As far as I can tell this is pretty rare. Do you think you might be able to scan and share it so that this can be preserved? Or, maybe a few of us could chip in to get it scanned by someone such as Dave at Artek? Matt
|
HP 8970B battery backup troubleshooting
I received a faulty HP 8970B displaying errors (E80 and E26) related to
backup battery / attenuator calibration data troubles. I measured the
voltage across the 3V coin cell in-circuit to be about 2.93 V. However,
the replacement, which showed 3.4V out of circuit, quickly dropped to
about 2.5V in circuit. Sure enough, when I checked the next morning E80
had reappeared (indicating the NVRAM lost data) and the battery voltage
was now only a few tens of mV. Now, when I use a fresh battery the
voltage drops quickly to basically 0.
This obviously sounds like something's shorting the output but when I
power it externally and place an inline meter in current mode, the
current only reads about 4nA. The power draw of the NVRAM in standby is
spec'd at 10nA typical, so this seems reasonable. Also, the NVRAM seems
to work fine when the unit is powered on (I can program new attenuator
calibration data). But if there's no short at the output, why are my
batteries dying? I've attached the battery portion of the schematic. VB
is attached to the TC5564APL-15 NVRAM supply.
FYI, I've run the 8970B through a bunch of the operator's checks and
it's passed everything, so there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.
It's also worth mentioning that I think I saw a pretty significant
dielectric absorption effect from the tantalum across the battery. I
noticed after the first time I powered the circuit externally that when
I measured the voltage across the battery supply terminals with no
battery (or supply) in place, the voltage read >7V (into a >10GOhm
meter). This persisted after I shorted and released the supply
terminals. When I removed the tantalum this voltage went away so I think
it's a dielectric absorption or memory effect. This is doubly strange to
me, because if this can supply the voltage on its own, why can't the
battery + cap do it?
Matt
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
I picked up the unit with total cost about $71.50 incl shipping. Hope it works?
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022, 21:38 Sergey Kubushyn < ksi@...> wrote: On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, Andrew Hakman wrote:
There is one for $55 BIN on ePay right now:
There is one more but that is in South Korea with asking price of $300 and
$90 shipping which is insane.
> I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one
> (at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and
> not with the scope
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 2:15 PM Samudra <samudra.haque@...> wrote:
>
>> Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight
>> instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think
>> per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone
>> have a spare unit they would like to sell?
>>
>> Is it a plug and play module ?
>> Thanks, I am in the US.
---
*
*? KSI@home? ? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
*? Las Vegas? ?NV, USA? ?< >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.? ?*
*
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
Thanks Andrew. have you used any freely available Keysight software for automated measurement using these oscilloscopes qith non-GPIB interfaces ? I just invested into ethernet/GPIB for the other instruments in my rack, and thought to use GPIB but would not mind a USB-serial interface setup.?
I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one (at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and not with the scope
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone have a spare unit they would like to sell??
Is it a plug and play module ??
Thanks, I am in the US.?
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, Andrew Hakman wrote: There is one for $55 BIN on ePay right now: There is one more but that is in South Korea with asking price of $300 and $90 shipping which is insane. I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one
(at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and
not with the scope
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 2:15 PM Samudra <samudra.haque@...> wrote:
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight
instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think
per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone
have a spare unit they would like to sell?
Is it a plug and play module ?
Thanks, I am in the US. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one (at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and not with the scope
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone have a spare unit they would like to sell??
Is it a plug and play module ??
Thanks, I am in the US.?
|
Re: New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
Harold, what¡¯s a ¡°tantalum, film¡± capacitor?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Harold Foster via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2022 8:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
?
All-
Just uploaded a SS of Sprague capacitor series that I made as a quick reference for myself - feel free to add and modify as needed.? I also have scans (as found on the web) of old catalogs that I can upload if wanted but did not do so as they are approximately
100MB total and i don't want to use up storage space here for no reason.? I will gladly UL if requested.
Thanks,
Hal?
|
WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone have a spare unit they would like to sell??
Is it a plug and play module ??
Thanks, I am in the US.?
|
Re: Setting up an Ubuntu + Prologix GPIB toolchain
Thanks, I bit the bullet and order a new ProLogix ethernet/gpib dongle. The manufacturer has raised prices,? and they recommended that I buy from vendors wirh existing stock, currently selling at the usual price.?
They provided me a writeup to use the product and application development guides.?
|
Harold Foster
Sergey Kubushyn