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CHECK OUT THE WIKI The purpose of the wiki is mainly to allow you to find information on instruments, either from either
- The model number
- The function(s) listed below. Some instruments have multiple functions - for example, the 4195A is a VNA, spectrum analyzer and an impedance analyzer. Therefore the 4195A is listed in multiple categories
Please also check out HPWiki available here:
- Accessory kits - various types
- AC power analyzers - PA2201A and PA2203A
- AC power supplies 6811C, 6812C, 6813C
- Airlines
- Arbitrary waveform generators M8194A
- Amplifiers?493A, 495A?
- Attenuators (optical) 8156A, 8157A, 8158B, 81566A, 81576A,?
- Attenuators (RF) 8494A
- Attenuator set (500 ¦¸) 350C
- Attenuator set (600 ¦¸) 350D
- Attenuator switch driver
- Audio analyzers? 8903A, 8903B, 8903E,? ?
- Base station test sets
- Bit error rate testers (BERTs)
- Cables
- Capacitance meters U1701A, U1701B, 4272A, 4278A, 4279A
- Capacitor Bridge 4270A,
- Capacitor standards 16380A, 16380C,?
- Carrier noise test setsi
- Cesium frequency standards
- Clamp ammeters
- Close field probes
- Crystal Impedance E4915A, E4916A
- Data Acquisition Systems (DAQs)
- DC power analyzers
- DC power supplies 6030A , 6031A , 6032A, 6033A, 6035A, 6131C, 6621A, 6622A, 6623A, 6624A, 6627A, 6255A, 6645A, 6671A, 6672A, 6673A, 6674A, 6675A, 62003A, 62003C, 62003E, 62004A, 62004B, 62004E, 62005A, 62005B, 62005E, 62006A, 62006B, 62006E, 62010A, 62010C, 62010E, 62012A, 62012C, 62012E, 62015A, 62015C, 62015E, 62018A, 62018C, 62018E, 62024A, 62024C, 62024E, 62028A, 62028C, 62028E, 62048A, 62048C, 62048E
- Delay lines
- Detectors
- Device current waveform analyzers
- Digital communications analyzers
- Directional couplers
- Distortion analyzers 330B, 330C, 330D, 331A, 332A, 333A, 334A, 339A, 8903A, 8903B, 8903E,???
- Dynamic measurement DC source
- Electrometers
- Fading simulators
- Femto ammeters
- Filters
- Frequency counters 522B, 5342A 5343A 5352B
- Frequency standards?
- Function Generators ? 3310A,? 8165A,
- GPIB controllers, extenders, cables etc.
- GPS frequency standards
- Harmonic mixers
- High resistance meters 4339B
- High resistance meter fixtures 16008B
- HEV EV Grid Emulators and Test Systems
- In-circuit test systems
- Impedance analyzers 4195A, 4291A, 4291B, 4395A, 4396A, 4396B, 4294A, E4990A, E4991A
- Impedance Analyzer Accessories
- Impedance / Gain Phase analyzer 4194A
- Impedance Meter 4193A,
- Isolators
- LCR meters? U1701A, U1701B, U1731A,? U1731B, U1731C, U1732A, U1732B, U1732C, U1733C, 4191A , 4192A, 4194A, 4195A, E4196A,? 4216A, 4260A, 4261A, 4262A? 4263A, 4263B, 4271B, 4274A, 4275A, 4276A , 4277A, 4284A, 4285A, 4286A, 4287A, 4291A, 4291B, 4294A, 4332A, 4342A, 4395A, 4396A, 4396B, E4980A and E4980AL
- LCR meter calibration devices? 16380A 42030A? 42090A, 42091A and 42100A
- LCR meter accessories
- 2-Terminal BNCs.
- 4-Terminal Pair (BNC connectors)
- Cable extension 16048A, 16048D, 16048E, 16048G, 16048H
- DC current bias accessories 42841A, 42842A, 42842B, 42842C, 42843A
- DC voltage bias accessories 16065A, 16065C,
- Kelvin clips 16089A, 16089B, 16089C,16089E
- Lead Components 16047A,16047B, 16047D, 16047E
- Material 16451B, 16452A
- Probes 42941A
- SMD 16034E, 16034G, 16034H
- 2-port 16096A
- 7 mm (APC7)
- 2-Terminal BNCs.
- LCZ meters? 4276A, 4277A,
- Lightwave clock / data receivers
- Lightwave converter
- Lightwave component analyzer
- Lightwave measurement system mainframes
- Lightwave polarization analyzers 8509B
- Logic analyzers
- Nemo wireless network solutions.
- Noise and interference test set
- Noise figure analyzers
- Noise sources 346A, 346B. 346C ,
- Matching pads (50 ohm to 75 ohm or similar)
- Materials test equipment
- Microwave repeaters
- Microwave downconverters 70427A
- Microwave / THz sources
- Milliammeter 428B
- Milliohm meter
- Mobile communications DC source
- Modular instruments
- AXIe
- Data acquisition (DAQ)
- USB
- PXIe
- Modulation analyzers
- Multimeters 427A, 970A
- Optical attenuators
- Optical heads
- Optical sources
- Optical spectrum analyzers
- Oscilloscopes 120A, 120AR, 120B, 122A, 130A, 130B, 130BR, 130C, 140A, 140B, 141A, 150A, 150AR, 160B, 180A, 180AR, 180CD, 181A, 181AR, 181T, 181TR, 182C, 182T, 183A, 183B, 184A, 184B, 185A, 185B, 1200A, 1200B, 1220A, 1221A, 1703A, 1707A, 1707B, 1710A, 1710B, 1715A, 1722A, 1725A, 1726A, 1740A, 1741A, 1742A, 1743A, 1744A, 1746A, 1980A, 1980B, 5403A, 6000A, 6000L, 16533A, 16534A, 54100A, 5410B, 54100C, 5100D, 54111D, 54120A, 54120B, 54200A, 54501A, 54502A, 54503A, 54504A, 54520A, 54520C, 54540A, 54540C, 54542A, 54542C, 54600B, 54601A, 54601B, 54602B, 54603B,? 54645A, 54654N, 54710A, 54720A, 54750A, 54825N, E1428,?
- Oven controlled crystal oscillators (OCXOs)
- Pattern generators
- PCM terminal test set
- Phase noise measurement
- Pico ammeters
- Printers 2225
- Plotters 7470A, 7475A?
- Probes
- Protocol analyzers and exercisers.
- Power booster test sets
- Power meters 431A, 431B, 431C, 432A, 435A, 435B, 437B, 438A
- Power splitters
- Power supplies
- Pulse generators
- Q-meters 4342A?
- Q-meter calibration inductors 16470A
- Reflection transmission test set
- Return loss module (optical)
- Relays / switches / switch matrices (optical)
- Relays / switches / switch matrices (RF)
- Resistor standards 42030A?and 42100A
- S-parameter test sets
- Scalar network analyzers
- SCSI bus preprocessor interface E2324A
- Selective level meters 3746A
- Semiconductors
- Semiconductor parameter analyzers 4145A, 4155B, 4156B,
- Signal analyzers
- Signal generators / sweep generators / signal sources / oscillators 200CD, 201B, 209A, 204D,? 608A,? 8165A
- Software
- Source measure units
- Spectrum analyzers 4195A,???
- Switch control units
- SWR meter 415E?
- Time interval? counters
- Time mark generator 226A
- Timing and data state modules
- Torque wrenches
- Transmitter testers
- Trigger modules
- Ultrasound transducers
- Universal bridge? 4260A, 4265A, 4265B?
- Vacuum tube voltmeter 410C
- Vector Impedance Meter 4193A, 4800A, 4815A
- Vector Network Analyzers (VNAs) 4195A,? 8510A, 8510B, 8510C, 8753A, 8753B, 8753C, 8753D, 8753E, 8753ES, 8752ET, 8719A, 8719B, 8719C, 8719D, 8720A, 8720B, 8720C, 8720D, 8720ES, 8722A, 8722B, 8722C, 8722D, 8722ES,
- Vector Network Analyzers (VNA) calibration kits 85032B, 85032E, 85033C, 85033D, 85033E, 85050B, 85050C, 85050D, 85052B, 85052C, 85052D, 85054A, 85054B, 85054D, 85056A
- Vector Network Analyzer (VNA) verification kits
- Vector Signal Analyzer 89650S, 89600S
- Vector voltmeters 8405A, 8508A,
- VXI mainframes 70000B, 70000C
- Waveform and function generators
- Waveguide to waveguide and waveguide to coaxial transitions.
- Wireless 58 OTA chambers
- Wireless channel emulators
- Wireless network emulators
- Wireless communication test sets
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Re: Agilent 3458A Troubleshooting
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Alan, ? Thank you for your post and the encouraging comment about getting the 3458A going. I have my fingers crossed. ? In answer to the points you have raised: ? 1.??? xDevs and eevBlog ¨C I am aware of these and have watched some of the Youtube videos. I thought I would start with groups.io and move on to these later. 2.??? Check power and for toasted components ¨C done, all OK 3.??? Double check for correctly plugged cable connectors etc. ¨C done, all OK 4.??? Boot sequence ¨C I think it is starting the boot sequence properly. The single BEEP at power ON I presume means it has past the first step in POST. I found a very informative site about POST for PCs here: ? ? ??????????? I am guessing the 3458A functions in a similar manner when booting up. ? 5.??? Display voltages ¨C checked OK 6.??? The ROMs are socketed. I will try pulling these out and reinserting them. Unfortunately I do not have a spare set. 7.??? The Dallas NVRAMs should not affect the BIOS. They are soldered in. I will replace them once I get the meter going. 8.??? Electrolytics ¨C I will replace them once I get the meter going. 9.??? Provenance ¨C I found a sticker with Intel written on it. 10. Boards ¨C I will do this if I get desperate. I would rather track down the fault logically if I can. Unfortunately I don¡¯t have any spare boards for swapping. 11. Manuals ¨C I have a lot of info, including the CLIP, but there is no mention of what the flashing single square on the display means. 12. Dave eevBlog ¨C I must get in contact with him. I have seen his Youtube videos. I know he is Australian. I hope he is in Sydney! ? Thank you for providing the checklist ¨C most helpful. ? Cheers, George Georgevits (BE Hons, PhD) Consulting Engineer ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of alan.ambrose@... ? Hi George, |
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HP8444A 1.55GHz oscillator
Hi! I've been looking at an HP8444A tracking generator originally for 140 series but used with an 858B. It seems to be a late serial unit 2126A.? Oscillator A7 is similar (but not identical - the coupling to the cavity is adjustable in this one) to the one in the 1323A manual and the 1817A prefix manual. I don't have a later manual - neither does Artek. Having replaced the transistor it is now oscillating at a reasonable (but not quite correct frequency).? When I came to tune I found two adjusters one coupling between transistor and cavity and the other a more normal capacitative tuning adjuster.? The earlier manuals only have one - has anyone seen an adjustment procedure for the two adjuster version??? My frequency reference is not without suspicion?(HP5245L with 0.3-3GHz plugin) which seems the only counter I have that goes over 1GHz. They are great things but it's rare to have no other option but to use it, but now with a new 61 tooth gear (thanks HP for choosing a large prime) it works! Alan |
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Re: HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
I have succeded to integrate a YO84 YIG faily simple and you can use +/-15 for 30V for heater it is ok and shunting the Sense resistors in the Maincoil driver means it can span the 3-7Ghz. I have made changes to the Loop so it is yield low Phase noise. Output
from the YIG it self is good also. Mechanical implementation is done by using the original mechanic shell and make a hole for the YIG. It can be jammed in there when I mount the YIG in the unit. A PCB "still prototype" is mounted with a 10pin pinheader so
the orignal cable can be used. BUT BUT now the challenge. The original YIG does not get hot due to the sensitve coils meaning less drift. If the Loop is opened by placing the jumper in the TEST position I observe a drift of the YIG of around 5Mhz from cold
to warm. The Avantek YIG drift around 30-40Mhz. The Loop is build to compensate for 10Mhz drift. This means you can either have a unlock condition ERR301 during warm up or you will get it during use.
Playing around in the Loop is not a things for the average guy to do. The Frequency Lock? circuit is quite hard to work with. Changes to the loop will also challenge your phasenoise performance. I am sure this is why HP deviated from the standard sensitivity
on the maincoil to keep drift down. The avantek YIG gets hot the HP ones do not.
More fruitfull would be to find a replacement for the Bonded Transistor and get someone with a Wirebonder to service them.
I do currently not have a wirebonder but as I am repairing alot of advanced HP equipment I am considering it. But where to source components for tryouts.
best regards Peter OZ1LPR
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> p? vegne af Gerald <vk3gjm@...>
Sendt: 22. marts 2022 04:33 Til: [email protected] <[email protected]> Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz ?
Hi Peter, Et al,
Sorry for the delayed response to all the positive comments. I have been away camping, soaking up what is left of the good weather in autumn, trying my new HF radio set up. No doubt, there will be many challenges ahead, but I am determined to find a solution. I am waiting on a mail from Micro Lambda to see if they have ever made a replacement, the chap is going to ask the question for me, they have been so helpful to date. There are other Micro Lambda models to suit Tek and R&S, so they have made replacement models for branded SA and Sign Gens. No harm asking.? Peter, I think the original HP data sheet is right, this does represent a challenge at? or around 40MHz/mA, the hardware and software is tightly integrated, thus a YIG with similar spec or the development of an interface driver is needed. I haven't thought that far ahead yet. Like yourself, and I am sure others on the forum have purchased a YIG in the past to adapt, I purchased a Avantek Y084-1215 about 10 years ago, I recently tried to adapt via a crude interface driver, but this did not work out to well. Although the Avantek YIG works extremely well for it's vintage, it's main coil spec is way out at ~22.4 MHZ/mA. In addition, getting the juice to run the heater from an internal supply is a challenge. I am prepared to lay out the cash up to a point to develop a solution. I hope I do not have to eat my words in time. Stay tuned. Regards Gerald VK3GM ? |
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Re: HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz
Gerald,
If you approach Micro Lambda, I would do so with an extensive list of products that use this particular design which was internally called ¡°EYO¡± (economy YIG oscillator). If you can impress on them that there could be a reasonably large market for such a family of oscillators, they might consider making them. So, make a list if you can. Keep in mind that there were many variants (8753 series VNAs, various portable spectrum analyzers, 70000 systems, maybe some signal generators, etc.). Things to keep in mind: - Tuning sensitivity (main coil and FM) - Power supplies. The basic EYO used +15 and +5V and no negative supply. - The EYO has no heater, so the replacement shouldn¡¯t either. - Size and mounting hole locations. - Output power - The frequency range must extend down to 3 GHz in order for fit some products. I don¡¯t think there would be many buyers for such an oscillator if it sells for more than $500, but I may be wrong. Vladan |
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Re: Protecting Equipment
Lothar baier
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýNo I left UT about 5 years ago ?since the only point of this was to prove a somewhat snotty know it all PhD student wrong I didn¡¯t see no need to take the files with me ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of n8zmTWH via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 11:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? Still have them to share? ? Tom, N8ZM ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? Yes , I did a baseline first without the limiter , then the limiter was inserted and another sweep was done , the results were overlayed ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of n8zmTWH via groups.io ? At those levels did you do a power sweep both with and without the limiter to observe the non-linear distortion products of the sig gen and SA? ? Tom, N8ZM ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? 1GHz only? ? ?
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Re: HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz
Lothar baier
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýSome of the agilent and rohde YTO were made by microsource , unfortunately microsource was bought out by gigatronics and I don¡¯t know if they still sell the YIGs as separate products ,? I expect for micro lambda to be tight lipped if it comes to ¡°replacement¡± yigs as I know they make yigs for rohde and I assume also some for agilent and I am sure neither company would be happy if micro lambda were to undercut their spare part sales ? As far as Avantek concerns you are talking about a entirely different generation of YIGs ,20MHz/Ma is actually common for tuning sensitivity of the main coil however agilent as well as WJ departed from this value ! ? Here is some info on the drivers ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Gerald via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 10:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz ? Hi Peter, Et al, |
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Re: Protecting Equipment
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýStill have them to share? ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 12:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? Yes , I did a baseline first without the limiter , then the limiter was inserted and another sweep was done , the results were overlayed ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of n8zmTWH via groups.io ? At those levels did you do a power sweep both with and without the limiter to observe the non-linear distortion products of the sig gen and SA? ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? 1GHz only? ? ?
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Re: Protecting Equipment
Lothar baier
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýYes , I did a baseline first without the limiter , then the limiter was inserted and another sweep was done , the results were overlayed ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of n8zmTWH via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 10:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? At those levels did you do a power sweep both with and without the limiter to observe the non-linear distortion products of the sig gen and SA? ? Tom, N8ZM ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? 1GHz only? ?
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Re: Protecting Equipment
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAt those levels did you do a power sweep both with and without the limiter to observe the non-linear distortion products of the sig gen and SA? ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 9:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? 1GHz only? ?
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Re: HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz
Hi Peter, Et al,
Sorry for the delayed response to all the positive comments. I have been away camping, soaking up what is left of the good weather in autumn, trying my new HF radio set up. No doubt, there will be many challenges ahead, but I am determined to find a solution. I am waiting on a mail from Micro Lambda to see if they have ever made a replacement, the chap is going to ask the question for me, they have been so helpful to date. There are other Micro Lambda models to suit Tek and R&S, so they have made replacement models for branded SA and Sign Gens. No harm asking.? Peter, I think the original HP data sheet is right, this does represent a challenge at? or around 40MHz/mA, the hardware and software is tightly integrated, thus a YIG with similar spec or the development of an interface driver is needed. I haven't thought that far ahead yet. Like yourself, and I am sure others on the forum have purchased a YIG in the past to adapt, I purchased a Avantek Y084-1215 about 10 years ago, I recently tried to adapt via a crude interface driver, but this did not work out to well. Although the Avantek YIG works extremely well for it's vintage, it's main coil spec is way out at ~22.4 MHZ/mA. In addition, getting the juice to run the heater from an internal supply is a challenge. I am prepared to lay out the cash up to a point to develop a solution. I hope I do not have to eat my words in time. Stay tuned. Regards Gerald VK3GM ? |
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Re: Question about MMIC amp design for HP 8601a output replacement
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI have replaced my hybrid with a design based on the Dasarodesigns.com replacement. I have inserted the schematic here - I'm not sure if it will come
through. I used the BFU590Q transistor, and more common resistor
values. I don't use the -6.3 volt supply, I bias the amplifier to
produce +20 dBm all the time. One of the major issues is getting
the heat out. A Spice simulation predicts about 4 watts total
dissipation in this amplifier. This amplifier probably doesn't meet the spec's of the original, but I can get about +20 dBm out again, and the 8601a puts out a reasonably flat sweep to 110 MHz. My goal was to have a working signal generator again, not necessarily meeting the original specifications for the 8601a Gary Appel On 3/21/2022 12:28 PM, DB via groups.io
wrote:
Hi David, |
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Re: Protecting Equipment
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýOK, Thanks. ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 9:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? 1GHz only? ?
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Re: Protecting Equipment
Lothar baier
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý1GHz only?On Mar 21, 2022, at 19:52, n8zmTWH via groups.io <n8zmTWH@...> wrote:
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Re: Protecting Equipment
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWhat Frequencies? ? ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 8:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? Agilent E8257D 20GHz Signal generator ?, N9030A 50GHz spectrum analyzer , power sweep in 0.5Db steps from 0 to 30dBm CW ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of n8zmTWH via groups.io ? ³¢´Ç³Ù³ó²¹°ù¡ ? What test gear did you use for the power sweep and what were the test points? I have a couple here I¡¯d like to compare. ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? Years ago I had this discussion with a PhD student ,? his argument was that the limiter doesn¡¯t matter unless it is triggered so I set up a experiment doing a power sweep of the limiter and capturing the output spectrum for each point ,? he was quite surprised ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of si_emi_01 via groups.io ? Lothar, ? Correct. The same thing happens with Zeners below 6.2V and TVS Diodes (way too much Capacitance for RF Applications). ? Look at the Breakover point of the RF Limiter (or TVS), it is a curve. Its Impedance changes below the breakover voltage as current flows through it and approaches the knee. If it is not specified, it can be obtained via a Curve Tracer or manually generated I-V Curves that you can produce with a simple Power Supply UUT and Resistance Standard or Resistance Decade. ? Many Signal Integrity issues develop when they are not used properly and the curve is well understood. ? Ross ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? What many people seem to forget is the fact that the non linear behavior of a limiter kicks in way before the limiter is actually ¡°triggered¡± ?although the distortions are not as bad ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of si_emi_01 via groups.io ? Tom, ? That is also why MIL-STD-461 CE102 requires a 20dB Pad on the signal path from the LISN to the Receiver. They do not recommend a Limiter due to non-linearities that Lothar points out. ? Limiters can really hurt the Noise Figure of a receiver input at well. ? Ross ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of n8zmTWH@... ? Limiters are very commonly recommended for Conducted Immunity testing in EMC labs where the Spec An input comes from the Line Impedance Stabilization Network (LISN) because the turn on/off transients can be quite high. The levels expected to be measured typically should be much less than the distortion level of the limiter. The recommended limiter in this case actually has an intentional 10 dB insertion loss. ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? A few words about limiters , Generally limiters are used in systems to protect receivers usually in RADAR or EW applications ,? in test systems the use of limiters s usually frowned upon ( with very few exceptions)? and for good reason ! First of there is a cost penalty that is not insignificant , the cost for a connectorized limiter usually starts at about $600 and can go up into the $2K range . Limiters also degrade VSWR and add additional system loss . But the by far biggest problem is that limiters are non linear devices and as such excellent harmonics generators , harmonics will start to occur before the limiter hits the hard threshold and worsens as the power increases so if you put one in front a spectrum analyzer you have to be cautious not to end up with tst results that are worse than they actually are ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Ford via groups.io ? Mini-Circuits sells limiters as well as DC blocks, but they only go up to 8 GHz.? Not sure about the price, but they are most likely competitive.? Assuming you actually need one. ? Jim Ford ? ------ Original Message ------ From: "Matt Huszagh" <huszaghmatt@...> Sent: 3/20/2022 6:52:14 AM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ?
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Re: Protecting Equipment
Lothar baier
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAgilent E8257D 20GHz Signal generator ?, N9030A 50GHz spectrum analyzer , power sweep in 0.5Db steps from 0 to 30dBm CW ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of n8zmTWH via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 6:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? ³¢´Ç³Ù³ó²¹°ù¡ ? What test gear did you use for the power sweep and what were the test points? I have a couple here I¡¯d like to compare. ? Tom, N8ZM ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? Years ago I had this discussion with a PhD student ,? his argument was that the limiter doesn¡¯t matter unless it is triggered so I set up a experiment doing a power sweep of the limiter and capturing the output spectrum for each point ,? he was quite surprised ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of si_emi_01 via groups.io ? Lothar, ? Correct. The same thing happens with Zeners below 6.2V and TVS Diodes (way too much Capacitance for RF Applications). ? Look at the Breakover point of the RF Limiter (or TVS), it is a curve. Its Impedance changes below the breakover voltage as current flows through it and approaches the knee. If it is not specified, it can be obtained via a Curve Tracer or manually generated I-V Curves that you can produce with a simple Power Supply UUT and Resistance Standard or Resistance Decade. ? Many Signal Integrity issues develop when they are not used properly and the curve is well understood. ? Ross ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? What many people seem to forget is the fact that the non linear behavior of a limiter kicks in way before the limiter is actually ¡°triggered¡± ?although the distortions are not as bad ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of si_emi_01 via groups.io ? Tom, ? That is also why MIL-STD-461 CE102 requires a 20dB Pad on the signal path from the LISN to the Receiver. They do not recommend a Limiter due to non-linearities that Lothar points out. ? Limiters can really hurt the Noise Figure of a receiver input at well. ? Ross ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of n8zmTWH@... ? Limiters are very commonly recommended for Conducted Immunity testing in EMC labs where the Spec An input comes from the Line Impedance Stabilization Network (LISN) because the turn on/off transients can be quite high. The levels expected to be measured typically should be much less than the distortion level of the limiter. The recommended limiter in this case actually has an intentional 10 dB insertion loss. ? Tom, N8ZM ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? A few words about limiters , Generally limiters are used in systems to protect receivers usually in RADAR or EW applications ,? in test systems the use of limiters s usually frowned upon ( with very few exceptions)? and for good reason ! First of there is a cost penalty that is not insignificant , the cost for a connectorized limiter usually starts at about $600 and can go up into the $2K range . Limiters also degrade VSWR and add additional system loss . But the by far biggest problem is that limiters are non linear devices and as such excellent harmonics generators , harmonics will start to occur before the limiter hits the hard threshold and worsens as the power increases so if you put one in front a spectrum analyzer you have to be cautious not to end up with tst results that are worse than they actually are ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Jim Ford via groups.io ? Mini-Circuits sells limiters as well as DC blocks, but they only go up to 8 GHz.? Not sure about the price, but they are most likely competitive.? Assuming you actually need one. ? Jim Ford ? ------ Original Message ------ From: "Matt Huszagh" <huszaghmatt@...> Sent: 3/20/2022 6:52:14 AM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ?
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08562- 60103 CLIP
Hi all I wonder if anyone can help I'm trying to repair a tricky fault with a 08561A? the RF Board A15 uses board part number 08562-60103, I've narrowed? the fault down to a part of the circuit that is different from the clips I have for 0862-60117
Can anyone help with the clips for this board? thanks |
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Re: Protecting Equipment
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý³¢´Ç³Ù³ó²¹°ù¡ ? What test gear did you use for the power sweep and what were the test points? I have a couple here I¡¯d like to compare. ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 5:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ? Years ago I had this discussion with a PhD student ,? his argument was that the limiter doesn¡¯t matter unless it is triggered so I set up a experiment doing a power sweep of the limiter and capturing the output spectrum for each point ,? he was quite surprised ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of si_emi_01 via groups.io ? Lothar, ? Correct. The same thing happens with Zeners below 6.2V and TVS Diodes (way too much Capacitance for RF Applications). ? Look at the Breakover point of the RF Limiter (or TVS), it is a curve. Its Impedance changes below the breakover voltage as current flows through it and approaches the knee. If it is not specified, it can be obtained via a Curve Tracer or manually generated I-V Curves that you can produce with a simple Power Supply UUT and Resistance Standard or Resistance Decade. ? Many Signal Integrity issues develop when they are not used properly and the curve is well understood. ? Ross ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? What many people seem to forget is the fact that the non linear behavior of a limiter kicks in way before the limiter is actually ¡°triggered¡± ?although the distortions are not as bad ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of si_emi_01 via groups.io ? Tom, ? That is also why MIL-STD-461 CE102 requires a 20dB Pad on the signal path from the LISN to the Receiver. They do not recommend a Limiter due to non-linearities that Lothar points out. ? Limiters can really hurt the Noise Figure of a receiver input at well. ? Ross ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of n8zmTWH@... ? Limiters are very commonly recommended for Conducted Immunity testing in EMC labs where the Spec An input comes from the Line Impedance Stabilization Network (LISN) because the turn on/off transients can be quite high. The levels expected to be measured typically should be much less than the distortion level of the limiter. The recommended limiter in this case actually has an intentional 10 dB insertion loss. ? Tom, N8ZM ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier ? A few words about limiters , Generally limiters are used in systems to protect receivers usually in RADAR or EW applications ,? in test systems the use of limiters s usually frowned upon ( with very few exceptions)? and for good reason ! First of there is a cost penalty that is not insignificant , the cost for a connectorized limiter usually starts at about $600 and can go up into the $2K range . Limiters also degrade VSWR and add additional system loss . But the by far biggest problem is that limiters are non linear devices and as such excellent harmonics generators , harmonics will start to occur before the limiter hits the hard threshold and worsens as the power increases so if you put one in front a spectrum analyzer you have to be cautious not to end up with tst results that are worse than they actually are ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Ford via groups.io ? Mini-Circuits sells limiters as well as DC blocks, but they only go up to 8 GHz.? Not sure about the price, but they are most likely competitive.? Assuming you actually need one. ? Jim Ford ? ------ Original Message ------ From: "Matt Huszagh" <huszaghmatt@...> Sent: 3/20/2022 6:52:14 AM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Protecting Equipment ?
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Re: HP83595A/B (HP 8350) ROM firmware required
Lothar baier
Back in the days scaler network analyzers were quite popular, the problem however was that since they used diode detectors everything was measured so harmonics and spurs reduced the dynamic range , HP used YTMs to generate higher frequencies which resulted in a ¡°dirtier ¡° signal than wiltrons sweepers who used fundamental YIGs , HP at some point tried to combat this by designing a series of low harmonics plug ins for the 8350 by adding a YIG filter there was a 20 and 26GHz version
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On Mar 21, 2022, at 18:28, Yves Tardif via groups.io <yves_tardif@...> wrote: |
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Re: HP83595A/B (HP 8350) ROM firmware required
I think you are right, there is one more adjustment on the front of the C version, and it is a PEAK FILTER without any doubt for a YIG FILTER.
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de Lothar baier Envoy¨¦ : 21 mars 2022 19:15 ? : [email protected] Objet : Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP83595A/B (HP 8350) ROM firmware required If I remember correctly than the main difference between the B and C was that it had a YIG filter added to produce a cleaner output signal |
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Re: HP83595A/B (HP 8350) ROM firmware required
Lothar baier
If I remember correctly than the main difference between the B and C was that it had a YIG filter added to produce a cleaner output signal
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Yves Tardif via groups.io Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 6:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP83595A/B (HP 8350) ROM firmware required You are probably right, I did not find a version B for this plugin, but there is a version C that seems to be slightly different (higher RF level), we can assume that the V9 firmware is maybe for this version of the plugin. The 4.0 version works fine, just that I like to update the firmware when possible. Thanks for your comments. -Yves -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de Lothar baier Envoy¨¦ : 21 mars 2022 17:37 ? : [email protected] Objet : Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP83595A/B (HP 8350) ROM firmware required Check the manual backdating changes to see if there was any change in the CPU or other boards , sometimes HP upgraded processor boards due to obsolence of certain parts used and as a result newer firmware sometimes was not compatible to older CPU boards |
Richard