I still design circuits , I build them and I test them so I am still
doing about 80% of the work

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 8:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

On 3/18/22 21:04, Lothar baier wrote:

I stopped doing it years ago mainly because the materials I mostly
use ( Rogers 4350,6010) are not available with photo resist coating
and if you send them out for coating than the lot charge is quite
high ,also the process for plating through at home is not easy to do
and requires quite nasty chemicals so I resort nowadays to just have
the boards made by a board shop

Hey wait, weren't you the guy who was just complaining that nobody
does anything anymore? ;)

-Dave


--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On 3/18/22 20:59, Bryce Schroeder wrote:

I've started "etching" PCBs with a fiber laser engraver. The bog
standard 1064 nm ones can do it, which somewhat surprised me. Glad to
not have to coat PCBs in photosensitive goo anymore since the laser
can remove copper and solder mask selectively. (Well, I still need goo
for silk screen, but that is much less critical.)

Sounds interesting for prototyping. Most of my designs make use of
TQFP and LQFP packages with 0.5mm pin pitch; can the process and
equipment you're using handle those? Which engraver are you using?

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

I still design circuits , I build them and I test them so I am still doing about 80% of the work
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 8:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
On 3/18/22 21:04, Lothar baier wrote:

I stopped doing it years ago mainly because the materials I mostly use
( Rogers 4350,6010) are not available with photo resist coating and
if you send them out for coating than the lot charge is quite high
,also the process for plating through at home is not easy to do and
requires quite nasty chemicals so I resort nowadays to just have the
boards made by a board shop

Hey wait, weren't you the guy who was just complaining that nobody does anything anymore? ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

I stopped doing it years ago mainly because the materials I mostly use
( Rogers 4350,6010) are not available with photo resist coating and
if you send them out for coating than the lot charge is quite high
,also the process for plating through at home is not easy to do and
requires quite nasty chemicals so I resort nowadays to just have the
boards made by a board shop

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:

Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there).

Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.

Either way, welcome!

I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems.

RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky.

Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter.

As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small?

Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally blown by that, they might survive! B-)

I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

?

>?Oh lord , I remember me and dad etching circuit boards using ferric chloride solution on the kitchen stove

Truly dangerous.
Get a stain on the stove and you're toast!

I still etch with ferric chloride here at the house. But I do use an earth sciences Hot shaker table with a water bath rather than food prep area. So at least some improvement.

Zen

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 6:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Oh lord , I remember me and dad etching circuit boards using ferric
chloride solution on the kitchen stove

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:

Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there).

Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.

Either way, welcome!

I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems.

RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky.

Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter.

As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small?

Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally
blown by that, they might survive! B-)

I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

I still etch with ferric chloride here at the house. But I do use an earth sciences Hot shaker table with a water bath rather than food prep area. So at least some improvement.

Zen

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 6:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!

Oh lord , I remember me and dad etching circuit boards using ferric chloride solution on the kitchen stove

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:

Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there).

Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.

Either way, welcome!

I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems.

RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky.

Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter.

As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small?

Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally blown by that, they might survive! B-)

I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

?

I wonder if it would make any sense to try to get some of these kids onto this list.

That's something I had never considered, but, so long as the list doesn't mind some occasional naive questions, part of the role of their HS capstones is professional development, and introducing them to this world would certainly count.

The next time I have one or more of them interested in the device-engineering part of the lab, I'll introduce them to the group.

Some time I'll tell you about the patent we have for the world's stupidest MP3 player.? Sydney 1.0 developed and built the prototypes for that one too.? Far fewer fires in that story though!


Will
Turns out I'm not too far away from Dave - near Athens Ohio here.

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:

Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there).

Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.

Either way, welcome!

I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems.

RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky.

Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter.

As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small?

Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally blown by that, they might survive! B-)

I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Ok before jumping to conclusions and re-engineering how about figuring out what’s really wrong with it ? If you talk about removing and rewiring you might as well get a control board from a 8517A and turn the 8516 into a 17 then all you need is a 40GHz 8360 ?

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:47, Bruce via groups.io <bruce@...> wrote:

?Can he pull the 40GHz section (filter, doubler, relay, etc) out of the 8516, and use DC levels to control it while driving it with the 8340 That way he could eliminate the doubler/filter as the root of the problem.

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:

Agilent initially used the DB25 for the 8410 interface , when the 8516 was conceived ( as a response to wiltron being the first one to introduced a 40GHz VNA ) they repurposed the interface to control the doubler and filter module , this change encompassed a different CPU board 08340-60299 and upgraded FW , for synthesizers with 2812A upwards this was incorporated while for older sources a upgrade was offered by HP !
The control interface was maintained on the 8360 series even though the 8360 series unlike the older 8340/41 models offered coverage to 50GHz mostly because the 8516 can not operate with a 40GHz source , agilent of course could have offered a HW upgrade to either bypass or remove the doubler module and change the input connector for the source input but at the time the 8360 series came out they also had the 8517 testset which covered to 50GHz so I guess agilent saw a opportunity to sell new testsets ?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of aves via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

The only fix is to have the correct output from the 8340-41! The older source label says 8410B-C Interface and they mean it. We need the Auxiliary Interface like the 83621A dedicated sweeper for the 8510C which might be documented in the service manual.

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:

?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:

Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there).

Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.

Either way, welcome!

I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems.

RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky.

Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter.

As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small?

Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally blown by that, they might survive! B-)

I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:47, Bruce via groups.io <bruce@...> wrote:

?Can he pull the 40GHz section (filter, doubler, relay, etc) out of the 8516, and use DC levels to control it while driving it with the 8340 That way he could eliminate the doubler/filter as the root of the problem.

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:

Agilent initially used the DB25 for the 8410 interface , when the 8516 was conceived ( as a response to wiltron being the first one to introduced a 40GHz VNA ) they repurposed the interface to control the doubler and filter module , this change encompassed a different CPU board 08340-60299 and upgraded FW , for synthesizers with 2812A upwards this was incorporated while for older sources a upgrade was offered by HP !
The control interface was maintained on the 8360 series even though the 8360 series unlike the older 8340/41 models offered coverage to 50GHz mostly because the 8516 can not operate with a 40GHz source , agilent of course could have offered a HW upgrade to either bypass or remove the doubler module and change the input connector for the source input but at the time the 8360 series came out they also had the 8517 testset which covered to 50GHz so I guess agilent saw a opportunity to sell new testsets ?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of aves via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

The only fix is to have the correct output from the 8340-41! The older source label says 8410B-C Interface and they mean it. We need the Auxiliary Interface like the 83621A dedicated sweeper for the 8510C which might be documented in the service manual.