Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
I wonder if it would make any sense to try to get some of these kids onto this list.
That's something I had never considered, but, so long as the list doesn't mind some occasional naive questions, part of the role of their HS capstones is professional development, and introducing them to this world would certainly count. The next time I have one or more of them interested in the device-engineering part of the lab, I'll introduce them to the group. Some time I'll tell you about the patent we have for the world's stupidest MP3 player.? Sydney 1.0 developed and built the prototypes for that one too.? Far fewer fires in that story though! Will Turns out I'm not too far away from Dave - near Athens Ohio here.
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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
>?Oh lord , I remember me and dad etching circuit boards using ferric chloride solution on the kitchen stove
Truly dangerous.
Get a stain on the stove and you're toast!
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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
I still etch with ferric chloride here at the house. But I do use an earth sciences Hot shaker table with a water bath rather than food prep area. So at least some improvement.
Zen
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Lothar baier Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 6:55 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns! Oh lord , I remember me and dad etching circuit boards using ferric chloride solution on the kitchen stove On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:
?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there). Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.
Either way, welcome!
I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems. RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky.
Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter.
As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small? Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally blown by that, they might survive! B-)
I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Well I was thinking of separating the operational status of the doubler filter from the logic / control / RF drive component. It is difficult to diagnose one without knowing whether the other is functional. An excellent opportunity to "chase your tail."
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:
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Show quoted text
Ok before jumping to conclusions and re-engineering how about figuring out what¡¯s really wrong with it ? If you talk about removing and rewiring you might as well get a control board from a 8517A and turn the 8516 into a 17 then all you need is a 40GHz 8360 ?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:47, Bruce via groups.io <bruce@...> wrote:
?Can he pull the 40GHz section (filter, doubler, relay, etc) out of the 8516, and use DC levels to control it while driving it with the 8340 That way he could eliminate the doubler/filter as the root of the problem.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:
Agilent initially used the DB25 for the 8410 interface , when the 8516 was conceived ( as a response to wiltron being the first one to introduced a 40GHz VNA ) they repurposed the interface to control the doubler and filter module , this change encompassed a different CPU board 08340-60299 and upgraded FW , for synthesizers with 2812A upwards this was incorporated while for older sources a upgrade was offered by HP !
The control interface was maintained on the 8360 series even though the 8360 series unlike the older 8340/41 models offered coverage to 50GHz mostly because the 8516 can not operate with a 40GHz source , agilent of course could have offered a HW upgrade to either bypass or remove the doubler module and change the input connector for the source input but at the time the 8360 series came out they also had the 8517 testset which covered to 50GHz so I guess agilent saw a opportunity to sell new testsets ?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of aves via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
The only fix is to have the correct output from the 8340-41! The older source label says 8410B-C Interface and they mean it. We need the Auxiliary Interface like the 83621A dedicated sweeper for the 8510C which might be documented in the service manual.
|
Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
Oh lord , I remember me and dad etching circuit boards using ferric chloride solution on the kitchen stove
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Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:22, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:
?On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote:
Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there). Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator.
Either way, welcome!
I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems. RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky.
Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter.
As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small? Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally blown by that, they might survive! B-)
I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Ok before jumping to conclusions and re-engineering how about figuring out what¡¯s really wrong with it ? If you talk about removing and rewiring you might as well get a control board from a 8517A and turn the 8516 into a 17 then all you need is a 40GHz 8360 ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 17:47, Bruce via groups.io <bruce@...> wrote:
?Can he pull the 40GHz section (filter, doubler, relay, etc) out of the 8516, and use DC levels to control it while driving it with the 8340 That way he could eliminate the doubler/filter as the root of the problem.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:
Agilent initially used the DB25 for the 8410 interface , when the 8516 was conceived ( as a response to wiltron being the first one to introduced a 40GHz VNA ) they repurposed the interface to control the doubler and filter module , this change encompassed a different CPU board 08340-60299 and upgraded FW , for synthesizers with 2812A upwards this was incorporated while for older sources a upgrade was offered by HP !
The control interface was maintained on the 8360 series even though the 8360 series unlike the older 8340/41 models offered coverage to 50GHz mostly because the 8516 can not operate with a 40GHz source , agilent of course could have offered a HW upgrade to either bypass or remove the doubler module and change the input connector for the source input but at the time the 8360 series came out they also had the 8517 testset which covered to 50GHz so I guess agilent saw a opportunity to sell new testsets ?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of aves via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
The only fix is to have the correct output from the 8340-41! The older source label says 8410B-C Interface and they mean it. We need the Auxiliary Interface like the 83621A dedicated sweeper for the 8510C which might be documented in the service manual.
|
Can he pull the 40GHz section (filter, doubler, relay, etc) out of the 8516, and use DC levels to control it while driving it with the 8340 That way he could eliminate the doubler/filter as the root of the problem.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Agilent initially used the DB25 for the 8410 interface , when the 8516 was conceived ( as a response to wiltron being the first one to introduced a 40GHz VNA ) they repurposed the interface to control the doubler and filter module , this change encompassed a different CPU board 08340-60299 and upgraded FW , for synthesizers with 2812A upwards this was incorporated while for older sources a upgrade was offered by HP !
The control interface was maintained on the 8360 series even though the 8360 series unlike the older 8340/41 models offered coverage to 50GHz mostly because the 8516 can not operate with a 40GHz source , agilent of course could have offered a HW upgrade to either bypass or remove the doubler module and change the input connector for the source input but at the time the 8360 series came out they also had the 8517 testset which covered to 50GHz so I guess agilent saw a opportunity to sell new testsets ?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of aves via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
The only fix is to have the correct output from the 8340-41! The older source label says 8410B-C Interface and they mean it. We need the Auxiliary Interface like the 83621A dedicated sweeper for the 8510C which might be documented in the service manual.
|
Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
On 3/18/22 18:00, Zentronics42@... wrote: Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names.
I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there). Ah, sorta. I've been living in that same digital age, but never did the nickname thing. We don't have rigid rules here, but this is a mailing list of mostly professional types, so we do prefer the use of given names. I'm by no means bossing you around on that, but just consider it a light suggestion from a list moderator. Either way, welcome! I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems. RF is great fun, and a wonderful thing to sink your teeth into. But yes, it does get expensive. The "good/fast/cheap (pick any two)" rule applies here; amazing deals can be had if you're patient, but personally I think patience isn't all it's cracked up to be. If we keep waiting, by the time we're dead, we'll have great stuff...No thanks! But really good deals do come along from time to time, if you're lucky. Your E4411B and 8596E are a great start. You'll need some good signal sources too, and a good microwave counter. Next would probably be a power meter. Fortunately these are all pretty easy to come by, with the possible exception of a sensor for the power meter. As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small? Hahaaa yes, trial by fire indeed. ;) If their minds aren't totally blown by that, they might survive! B-) I'm about 4.5hrs East of Dayton; I may have some gear for you, but you'd need some car space. That may be a challenge after Dayton. ;) I also run the Large Scale Systems Museum (google it) which you might find interesting, if it would be convenient for you to extend that Hamvention road trip. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
Dave,
Zen is one of my names I guess. Living in the digital age you seem to collect things like names. I have gone by Zenwizard on line for going on 25 years now. For off line use I am an Eric, however there are also some that know me as Adain (there is a LONG off topic story there). I am honestly looking to push the lab in to the RF space. But even now the gear is cost prohibitive to acquire at a rapid pace. I have recently (with in the last year) been able to acquire proper spectrum analyzers for the lab. HP E4411B and HP 8596E. I have my 10 Mhz reference sorted this year as well. So lab building is going well but it is slow. I am targeting some VNA and some microwave equipment as well as precision DC and calibration standards. I am in to the expensive toys it seems.
As for background it is extremely wide and varied. But most of it has been electronics based, computer based, or getting the two to talk to each other in some way.
I'll also be taking two students to their first swap meet in a few months... their first one will be the Dayton Hamvention. So we are going to start small?
Zen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 5:24 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns! On 3/18/22 17:19, Zentronics42@... wrote: I will toss in at least 2 pennies worth as I would be just coming out of being considered one of the kids. I still work with high school students in vocation programs and definitely can tell things are alive and well. But here is a few points The current generation has been told FAR to often that "this is for some one else not for you" way to often, My self included to be honest. There was a shift from "go figure it out" to "that is too dangerous" I am the only person I know of with in 400 miles that is willing to work on vacuum tube equipment due to the high voltages involved. I have run in to many that are terrified of dying touching 12Vdc. Let alone 21KVdc of an anode discharge tube in a CRT scope.
To that end I even started a you tube channel linked in to show people how to spin up a lab from scratch. But if some one young is told to often "that is too dangerous" they start to believe it. This is true for anything Voltage is high HV or HP circuits. As well as chemicals needed to facilitate board making at home. Yeah, there's been a huge "wrap them in bubble wrap and protect them from every possible danger" movement among parents in the past few decades. I'll be turning 53 on Monday. I lived in a house with lead-based paint, I had several chemistry sets, worked on tube gear, etc etc etc...and somehow I survived. Bravo for not being afraid of everything. Zero risk is zero life, and as you've found, most of the "risks" that people whine about are BS. Yes the channel is Tek equipment heavy but I would like to get some more HP gear on there as well but I don¡¯t know where to start. Well, you've come to the right place. Youtube Channel for test equipment repair -
I will check it out. Zen (is that your real name?) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
Bob¡¯s wife obviously remembered that his life insurance policy had lapsed¡
On Friday, March 18, 2022, 17:30, n4buq <n4buq@...> wrote: Reminds me of the rain gutter commercials. Presenter: "How many of you use a ladder to clean your gutters?" Bob raises his hand. Presenter: "Bob - that's way too dangerous for you to be climbing a ladder!" Bob's wife looks at Bob with a very worried look on her face as Bob slowly and sheepishly lowers his hand. Me: "What's wrong with you people?!!" Barry - N4BUQ ----- Original Message ----- > From: "zentronics42" < Zentronics42@...> > To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" < [email protected]> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 4:19:06 PM > Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns! > I will toss in at least 2 pennies worth as I would be just coming out of being > considered one of the kids. I still work with high school students in vocation > programs and definitely can tell things are alive and well. But here is a few > points The current generation has been told FAR to often that "this is for some > one else not for you" way to often, My self included to be honest. There was a > shift from "go figure it out" to "that is too dangerous" I am the only person I > know of with in 400 miles that is willing to work on vacuum tube equipment due > to the high voltages involved. I have run in to many that are terrified of > dying touching 12Vdc. Let alone 21KVdc of an anode discharge tube in a CRT > scope. > > To that end I even started a you tube channel linked in to show people how to > spin up a lab from scratch. But if some one young is told to often "that is too > dangerous" they start to believe it. This is true for anything Voltage is high > HV or HP circuits. As well as chemicals needed to facilitate board making at > home. > > Yes the channel is Tek equipment heavy but I would like to get some more HP gear > on there as well but I don¡¯t know where to start. > > Youtube Channel for test equipment repair - > > > Zen > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected]> < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 4:59 PM > To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap > Meet Returns! > > On 3/18/22 16:42, Lothar baier wrote: >> *Currently there are many online circuit simulators and test equipment >> interfaces ( Not sure about online but many software companies started >> to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very >> low cost ) > >? There are many, both online and real software.? Most of the world's circuit >? simulation software has been free effectively forever.? Much of it derives from >? SPICE, which has been public domain since day one. > (1973)? Of course there have always been corporations popping up charging people > for things that the rest of the world gets for free, as always. > >? One very handy one for more practical/less academic work is the Falstad circuit >? simulator, originally written as a browser-based Java applet but it has been >? packaged for sane standalone use (i.e., not in a web browser) too.? Very handy. > >? ? ? ? ? -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA > > > > > > > > >
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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
"
*Once folks have an opportunity to cheaply develop a real interest, TinySA and NanoVNA will not be enough (?definatly true?)"
Not to sound too blasphemic, but I wager most folks, including some "far mid-range" in terms of their interest?in - for instance - FM tuners, when in a literal minute, including whipping out their NanoVNA?+ mini-fixture, hooking it up on USB to their lab computer, plug a given filter in, run their saved sweep (this one below is just a quick one I whipped together, so please disregard the haste), can come?up with something?like this: I am finding a bit of inconsistency between subsequent measurements, calibration may be a bit off - though the kit does include?a?calibration set - but it's so convenient and truly a gateway little device?to far more sophistication?than one may assume they "deserve..." (being "hobby engineers")
By that I mean to point out the incredible accessibility these little devices provide. In a meaningful way, the core of this conversation at this juncture.? Radu.?
On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 1:59 PM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 3/18/22 16:42, Lothar baier wrote:
> *Currently there are many online circuit?simulators and test equipment
> interfaces ( Not sure about online but many software companies started
> to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very low
> cost )
? ?There are many, both online and real software.? Most of the world's
circuit simulation software has been free effectively forever.? Much of
it derives from SPICE, which has been public domain since day one.
(1973)? Of course there have always been corporations popping up
charging people for things that the rest of the world gets for free, as
always.
? ?One very handy one for more practical/less academic work is the
Falstad circuit simulator, originally written as a browser-based Java
applet but it has been packaged for sane standalone use (i.e., not in a
web browser) too.? Very handy.
? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
Reminds me of the rain gutter commercials.
Presenter: "How many of you use a ladder to clean your gutters?"
Bob raises his hand.
Presenter: "Bob - that's way too dangerous for you to be climbing a ladder!"
Bob's wife looks at Bob with a very worried look on her face as Bob slowly and sheepishly lowers his hand.
Me: "What's wrong with you people?!!"
Barry - N4BUQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "zentronics42" <Zentronics42@...>
To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 4:19:06 PM
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns! I will toss in at least 2 pennies worth as I would be just coming out of being
considered one of the kids. I still work with high school students in vocation
programs and definitely can tell things are alive and well. But here is a few
points The current generation has been told FAR to often that "this is for some
one else not for you" way to often, My self included to be honest. There was a
shift from "go figure it out" to "that is too dangerous" I am the only person I
know of with in 400 miles that is willing to work on vacuum tube equipment due
to the high voltages involved. I have run in to many that are terrified of
dying touching 12Vdc. Let alone 21KVdc of an anode discharge tube in a CRT
scope.
To that end I even started a you tube channel linked in to show people how to
spin up a lab from scratch. But if some one young is told to often "that is too
dangerous" they start to believe it. This is true for anything Voltage is high
HV or HP circuits. As well as chemicals needed to facilitate board making at
home.
Yes the channel is Tek equipment heavy but I would like to get some more HP gear
on there as well but I don¡¯t know where to start.
Youtube Channel for test equipment repair -
Zen
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 4:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap
Meet Returns!
On 3/18/22 16:42, Lothar baier wrote:
*Currently there are many online circuit simulators and test equipment
interfaces ( Not sure about online but many software companies started
to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very
low cost ) There are many, both online and real software. Most of the world's circuit
simulation software has been free effectively forever. Much of it derives from
SPICE, which has been public domain since day one.
(1973) Of course there have always been corporations popping up charging people
for things that the rest of the world gets for free, as always.
One very handy one for more practical/less academic work is the Falstad circuit
simulator, originally written as a browser-based Java applet but it has been
packaged for sane standalone use (i.e., not in a web browser) too. Very handy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: HP1662A logic analyser software?
|
I do have a workaround. If I unhook the 2.4 connector off the output and use my mechanical waveguide doubler with my 8349B amp on my old 8341 I could do 40Ghz. Plenty room in the 8516.
|
Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
On 3/18/22 17:19, Zentronics42@... wrote: I will toss in at least 2 pennies worth as I would be just coming out of being considered one of the kids. I still work with high school students in vocation programs and definitely can tell things are alive and well. But here is a few points The current generation has been told FAR to often that "this is for some one else not for you" way to often, My self included to be honest. There was a shift from "go figure it out" to "that is too dangerous" I am the only person I know of with in 400 miles that is willing to work on vacuum tube equipment due to the high voltages involved. I have run in to many that are terrified of dying touching 12Vdc. Let alone 21KVdc of an anode discharge tube in a CRT scope.
To that end I even started a you tube channel linked in to show people how to spin up a lab from scratch. But if some one young is told to often "that is too dangerous" they start to believe it. This is true for anything Voltage is high HV or HP circuits. As well as chemicals needed to facilitate board making at home. Yeah, there's been a huge "wrap them in bubble wrap and protect them from every possible danger" movement among parents in the past few decades. I'll be turning 53 on Monday. I lived in a house with lead-based paint, I had several chemistry sets, worked on tube gear, etc etc etc...and somehow I survived. Bravo for not being afraid of everything. Zero risk is zero life, and as you've found, most of the "risks" that people whine about are BS. Yes the channel is Tek equipment heavy but I would like to get some more HP gear on there as well but I don¡¯t know where to start. Well, you've come to the right place. Youtube Channel for test equipment repair - I will check it out. Zen (is that your real name?) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
I will toss in at least 2 pennies worth as I would be just coming out of being considered one of the kids. I still work with high school students in vocation programs and definitely can tell things are alive and well. But here is a few points The current generation has been told FAR to often that "this is for some one else not for you" way to often, My self included to be honest. There was a shift from "go figure it out" to "that is too dangerous" I am the only person I know of with in 400 miles that is willing to work on vacuum tube equipment due to the high voltages involved. I have run in to many that are terrified of dying touching 12Vdc. Let alone 21KVdc of an anode discharge tube in a CRT scope.
To that end I even started a you tube channel linked in to show people how to spin up a lab from scratch. But if some one young is told to often "that is too dangerous" they start to believe it. This is true for anything Voltage is high HV or HP circuits. As well as chemicals needed to facilitate board making at home.
Yes the channel is Tek equipment heavy but I would like to get some more HP gear on there as well but I don¡¯t know where to start.
Youtube Channel for test equipment repair -
Zen
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 4:59 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns! On 3/18/22 16:42, Lothar baier wrote: *Currently there are many online circuit simulators and test equipment
interfaces ( Not sure about online but many software companies started
to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very
low cost ) There are many, both online and real software. Most of the world's circuit simulation software has been free effectively forever. Much of it derives from SPICE, which has been public domain since day one. (1973) Of course there have always been corporations popping up charging people for things that the rest of the world gets for free, as always. One very handy one for more practical/less academic work is the Falstad circuit simulator, originally written as a browser-based Java applet but it has been packaged for sane standalone use (i.e., not in a web browser) too. Very handy. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
While I completely agree, I've kind of gone the other direction.? I've always carried a cheap multimeter in my car just in case (that came from driving a Triumph Herald for years). The current one is a free Harbor Freight model, and you can't get much worse than that!? But it works.? Recently, I bought a TinySA just for fun, but I've used it twice now "in the field" for testing the compatibility of cheap, chinese electronic gadgets with our new theater sound system.? I'm actually thinking about getting a cheap iphone-form-factor scope to keep in the car too.? Many times, I've wanted to check gear at estate sales for output, and a cheapie would fit that bill.??
Do I really need another scope? No, but I don't want to lug around a 465, T912 or an SC502 in the car just in case...?
Interesting thing about the first TinySA use- the original signal I looked at was a harmonic of the output of the chinese gadget, with a stronger signal then the actual output. (!?)? When I got home, I tried the same test with real equipment, and the "harmonic" didn't even appear above the noise floor.? Both cases just used antennas for input.? Not sure what was going on, maybe operator error, but both signals were definitely coming from the device.? Something odd is happening at the theater too, because the device occasionally misbehaves, which it never did in three other locations.? My guess is that the receiver isn't very selective and it's picking up something it shouldn't, but no big deal- the show's run is almost over.
-Dave
On Friday, March 18, 2022, 01:11:19 PM PDT, Larry McElhiney via groups.io <lmcelhiney@...> wrote:
*Once folks have an opportunity to cheaply develop a real interest, TinySA and NanoVNA will not be enough
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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
On 3/18/22 16:42, Lothar baier wrote: *Currently there are many online circuit?simulators and test equipment interfaces ( Not sure about online but many software companies started to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very low cost ) There are many, both online and real software. Most of the world's circuit simulation software has been free effectively forever. Much of it derives from SPICE, which has been public domain since day one. (1973) Of course there have always been corporations popping up charging people for things that the rest of the world gets for free, as always. One very handy one for more practical/less academic work is the Falstad circuit simulator, originally written as a browser-based Java applet but it has been packaged for sane standalone use (i.e., not in a web browser) too. Very handy. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
A few comments in RED !
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Larry McElhiney via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 3:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Larry McElhiney <ac9ox@...>
Subject: Re: BS, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
?
Hi,
Just some thoughts from a 75-year-old with 60 years worth of electronics experience:
*Young people today have a multitude of interests and are often re-focused (squirrel)
(TRUE )
*They understand their smartphone or tablet as a portal to ¡°everything¡±
(DEFINATLY TRUE )
*Audio visual orientation drives them?to blogs and YouTube presentations?
*Currently there are many online circuit?simulators and test equipment interfaces
( Not sure about online but many software companies started to offer hobbyist or non commercial licenses for their tools at very low cost )
*Many simulators include a generic Arduino board which can be used in a design
*Microcontrollers, like Arduino have many downloadable examples included with their IDE
*The new RP2040 microcontroller from?the PI Foundation runs Python and ¡°C/C++¡± and costs $5.00
*Surplus Cellsite Test equipment (ex.?HP 8935) can be had for ~ $1200 with a ¡°bench full¡± of usable TE
( I have seen them cheaper than this but caution has to be exercised as cell test equipment often is limited in frequency range and capabilities )
*Once folks have an opportunity to cheaply develop a real interest, TinySA and NanoVNA will not be enough (
definatly true )
*By the way, the Raspberry PI allows the use of Arduino¡¯s IDE, so one could get in and out?for <$50
Which ever way we open up these experiences for young people, their choices will be the driver.
On Friday, March 18, 2022, 14:36, Bruce <bruce@...> wrote:
THANK YOU - My sentiment exactly.
Quoting Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>:
> This is an amazing story.? I wonder if it would make any sense to?
> try to get some of these kids onto this list.? Too many young people?
> fall into the trap of believing a $30 "nano" oscilloscope from China?
> is better than a real instrument because it's newer.? Given the?
> typical modern consumer upbringing, this is reasonable.? But we?
> could teach people like this why things don't really work that way.
>
>? In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we have a responsibility to do so.
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
>
> On 3/18/22 09:58, William Ray via groups.io wrote:
>> Not to prolong the off-topic, but perhaps to move it in a more?
>> positive direction, I will direct your attention to recently?
>> published patent:
>>
>> WO 2022/040182
>>
>> You can find it with Google.
>>
>> There's nothing in there that most, or perhaps all of the members?
>> here couldn't accomplish, it's almost all digital (though wringing?
>> the analog gremlins out of the power supply system sufficiently?
>> well to avoid false triggering took quite a lot of time on the?
>> 'scope), and most of the work was done on a Tek scope (but a couple?
>> Agilent MSOs, and a HP 54201d and 16702a that they fixed up also?
>> participated), but...
>>
>> Essentially /all/ of the electronics design and development work?
>> described here, was conducted by a series of High School Junior or?
>> Senior research-capstone students.? ?The very first version was?
>> developed by an Ohio State University computer-science Junior, but?
>> it kept catching on fire (literally), so the first HS student who?
>> worked on it essentially redeveloped it piece-by piece from scratch.
>>
>> Dear (Brown haired) Sydney 1.0 came into the lab not knowing how to?
>> solder, and left a year later a grizzled veteran of chasing a vast?
>> amount of magic smoke, and with sufficient chops to dive into the?
>> Tek scope and fix it without being prompted when it crapped out (it?
>> wasn't a major problem - a simultaneous power supply and?
>> LCD-backlight issue, but I will be forever impressed with her?
>> tenacity and attitude - that young lady is unstoppable).
>>
>> (Green-haired) Sydney 2.0 came into the lab a year later with a bit?
>> more pre-existing electronics knowledge (high-school robotics?
>> club), and decided to scrap the entire thru-hole/point-to-point?
>> system, learned how to design multilayer PCBs (on her own), then?
>> re-developed the entire thing as a monolithic, primarily?
>> surface-mount system.? She also orchestrated another group of?
>> students to develop more useful software to perform medical?
>> neuromuscular assessments.
>>
>> I'm a physicist.? I helped the students by pointing them to?
>> resources like data sheets for shift-buffers when they had?
>> questions like "how the heck are we going to get the input from 512?
>> switches into 2 pins on an Arduino???".? And I coached Sydney 1.0?
>> through episodes of "Dr. Ray, it's hard to tell because of Taumer's?
>> (original Computer-Sci student) spaghetti wiring, but I'm almost?
>> certain this wire is a dead short between the power rail for the?
>> Hall-effect sensors and the ground on the shift buffers - what?
>> should I do?? Well, let's take it out and see what happens.? Oooh -?
>> I knew that wire over there was hot, but now it's glowing!"?
>> situations, but /they/ did this.? In High School.? ?I'm willing to?
>> bet that not many of the people suggesting that the kids are not?
>> all right, were designing and developing patentable devices when?
>> they were in HS.
>>
>> Will Ray
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
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Agilent initially used the DB25 for the 8410 interface ,? when the 8516 was conceived ( as a response to wiltron being the first one to introduced a 40GHz VNA ) they repurposed the interface to control the doubler and filter module , this
change encompassed a different CPU board 08340-60299 and upgraded FW , for synthesizers with 2812A upwards this was incorporated while for older sources a upgrade was offered by HP !
The control interface was maintained on the 8360 series even though the 8360 series unlike the older 8340/41 models offered coverage to 50GHz mostly because the 8516 can not operate with a 40GHz source , agilent of course could have offered
a HW upgrade to either bypass or remove the doubler module and change the input connector for the source input but at? the time the 8360 series came out they also had the 8517 testset which covered to 50GHz so I guess agilent saw a opportunity to sell new
testsets ?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of aves via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question
?
The only? fix is to have the correct output from the 8340-41! The older source label says 8410B-C Interface and they mean it. We need the Auxiliary Interface like the 83621A dedicated sweeper? for the 8510C which might be documented in
the service manual.?
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Dave McGuire
Larry McElhiney