Re: HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz
Hello Gerald,
maybe I can help spread the word on Instagram - if you send me a
picture, I can post it!
Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 19k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2022. 03. 17. 2:59, Gerald wrote:
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Hi Everyone,
HP YIG's have been failing due to age and some reports of batch
oscillator transistor faults.?
Luis Cupido -?CT1DMK did conduct repairs until
his transistor stock ran out. There are plenty of freebay units
about, good luck , and there is one reputable repair service
about, but they are refurbished units,?not new, thus life
expectancy is not guaranteed beyond initial 12 months.
I have been researching a very close replacement for your
typical 3-7GHz YIG like the HP 5086-7903 and possibly others to
suit spectrum analysers from DC-2.9GHz, 85/86 series possibly
others.
A very close equivalent?unit is available after months of
effort contacting Teledyne, The Teledyne FS3013R. Data sheet and
an updated comparison sheet version 3.0 can be found in the
files area ,YIG directory Paul created.
I recently received a quote from a Teledyne agent in Aus, a new
FS3013R is approx. US$1,332 delivered to Australia. However, the
greater the QTY the lower the cost. I would like to see a cost
per unit for around US$900 delivered.
There is a catch, it is not a simple drop in and all will be OK.
Extensive research and effort is needed to integrate the FS3013R
into the analyser and it's YIG driver circuit along with the Cal
process, however it is a very close fit?? ?
I would like to see a cost per unit less then US$900 delivered.?This
brings me to a question without notice, is anyone interested in
a large group buy, the?greater the QTY the lower
the cost?
I just need numbers for now, the formalities can come later if
the enthusiasm is there.
Regards
Gerald
Vk3GJM
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Re: Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
On 3/17/22 14:56, Wilko Bulte wrote: Blast.. I am envious! So much nice stuff for sale over in the US of A... And for a song, compared to what we can get over here (in NL that is).
Still have the fluorescent orange business card from Weird Stuff, from when I first visited the
US ? It's nowhere near as great as it used to be; the suits have wrecked that too. Gone are the glorious DRMO (Dept. of Defense) surplus auctions, gone are nearly all of the great surplus stores. After all, precious snowflake little Jimmy might cut his finger on something and the company would get sued out of existence! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
Wilco I think all of my California surplus business cards are bad. Weirdstuff?went out of business maybe 5-7 years ago. That leaves only 2 companies left and by now maybe none. You seem to have on occasion run across fantastic deals. Enjoy Paul WB8TSL
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Re: OT: Anyone know where to get EDC manuals?
I think I missed it. How would you find EDC manuals please? Regards Paul WB8TSL
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Moderated
Re: Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
Not sure about the newer IFR/aeroflex stuff but the marconi stuff I worked on back at tucker was horrible in terms of signal quality and reliability
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On Mar 17, 2022, at 14:33, RubenRubio via groups.io <rubenrb2019@...> wrote:
?
Radu
At first you want to sweep, and none of those, except for 8662A and 8643A, can sweep.
?
Regards,
Ruben
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Moderated
Re: Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
Some of the user interfaces of the R&S and Agilent/Keysight sig gens aren't great, either.
Jim Ford?
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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-------- Original message -------- From: Ken Eckert <eckertkp@...> Date: 3/17/22 12:32 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
Have you looked at the Marconi/IFR/Aeroflex 2023/2024/2025 sig gens. They have the ability to sweep, we use them here at work. Biggest knock is the menu system.......
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To beat a dead horse, my standard answer when the question of why they did it that way comes up is, "It was cheaper."
Jim Ford?
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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-------- Original message -------- From: Wilko Bulte <wkb@...> Date: 3/17/22 12:16 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8903B Gooey Crystal
And the product was never designed for a 30+ year lifespan to start with. So whining about "suits" has no place here anyway. Wilko (who has been exposed to the "suits" problem, thank you very much ?)
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Moderated
Re: Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
Radu
At first you want to sweep, and none of those, except for 8662A and 8643A, can sweep.
?
Regards,
Ruben
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Moderated
Re: Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
Have you looked at the Marconi/IFR/Aeroflex 2023/2024/2025 sig gens. They have the ability to sweep, we use them here at work. Biggest knock is the menu system.......
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Years ago I talked to a retired HP engineer at a IEEE MTTS event , he said that the projected lifespan HP was designing and testing for was 10-15 years depending on the target market and price so many pieces we are using today have by far outlived their useable life
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On Mar 17, 2022, at 14:11, Wilko Bulte via groups.io <wkb@...> wrote:
?And the product was never designed for a 30+ year lifespan to start with. So whining about "suits" has no place here anyway.
Wilko
(who has been exposed to the "suits" problem, thank you very much ?)
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Moderated
Re: Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
I've seen mostly HPAK, with a few scattered R&S boxes at Powerwave Technologies (RIP), Broadcom, and Raytheon where I've worked over the past 2 decades.? R&S spec ans were used at Pwave for demanding test apps like >60 dBc adjacent channel leakage ratio.? But most benches had HP (1939-1999) or Agilent (1999-2014) boxes on them.? Pwave laid me and a bunch of others off in 2003 and then went under almost exactly 10 years later.
Jim Ford
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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-------- Original message -------- From: Lothar baier <Lothar@...> Date: 3/15/22 3:40 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
Rohde is definatly more prevalent in Europe compared to the US but they have taken a good chunk of agilents turf here in the US over the past 10 years or so , when I worked at nokia back in 2007 we were looking to buy VSG to test LTE Radios
, we spend 4? months comparing agilent and rohde SMU and rohde clearly came out way ahead of agilent
?
?
I will definitely explore the R&S path, but direct accessibility of in-house repair (my house!) is a big factor. Half of the fun for me is fixing, maintaining, adjusting/calibrating these instruments.?
?
But the integration of the R&S between their RF and AF lines seems pretty amazing. On the audio side of things, the AP vs R&S debate is heated enough, but AP has no RF division, obviously. Probably Keysight/Agilent era units may provide
such integration, but nowhere near my affordability.?
On the HP 8662A - the? FM distortion seems surprisingly terrible... I have not seen over 1% distortion listed on any instrument of any type I've been looking at in a while... Am I missing something?
?
On Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 10:09 AM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
I think a big portion of it being able to speak the language of the factory and
main offices.? As well, there is much greater availability of R&S equipment in
Europe vs. boatloads of HP and very little R&S in the states.
But no matter where in the world, when the suits take over, nothing good comes
for the customers.
On 3/15/2022 12:59 PM, Lothar baier wrote:
> I tend to disagree with your statement on the availability of parts and service information on agilent equipment ,? while it holds true on older equipment it is no longer a valid statement on newer equipment .
> Both rohde as well as agilent used to provide service manuals which included schematics , you had to order and pay for them but they were available ,then agilent changed their service philosophy to make service a profit center , the first step was to offer
fixed price repairs which in many meant paying almost as much as you paid for a new unit at least for power sensors or multimeters .
> Atthe same time the service guides focused on assembly level repair and schematics were removed ,? schematics were now offered as what agilent called CLIPS ( Component Level Information Package ) at substantial cost , many parts were also put in NFTS status
( not for trade sale )? and prices were increased as well
> I haven¡¯t checked whether rohde still offers schematics but I have generally found rohde more supportive this however could have to do with the fact that I grew up in Bavaria , speak the language and therefore call the service center in munich
>
> , in
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Peter Gottlieb via
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 11:31 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Recommendation for an "up to 1GHz" generator + sweeper
>
> If you look at it as a project purpose then being unrepairable can be acceptable.? $500 is cheap enough.? I bet sending back to R&S for repair would cost more than you paid for it as R&S charges extremely high prices for even basic service (at least with
radio gear, so probably with test equipment as well).? HP/Agilent/Keysight probably is just as expensive these days, but the availability of parts and service information makes it possible for third party repair (such as ourselves).
>
> Where I work we either buy new with full support and warranty or used from a place like ebay at steep discount.? Used gear goes right to our cal house for checkout.? Still ends up far cheaper and when decent gear is purchased this route is very economical.?
If the discount gear breaks and is BER then it is given to employees as they may be able to repair and use it.? Or at least learn something from it.
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 3/15/2022 4:19 AM, Peter Hall, VK6HP wrote:
>> Hello Radu,
>>
>> Despite (obviously) being an HP fan, I'm going to be heretical and
>> suggest you look a bit wider.? As several posters have mentioned it's
>> useful to think about what's particularly important to you but,
>> starting with a broad spec similar to yours, I eventually settled on a
>> Rohde and Schwarz SML 01.? A few of the main selling points were (a)
>> good condition and price (less than USD500 via a military surplus channel), (b) very good phase noise, with a "divider"
>> setting available for much of the frequency range, (c) low distortion
>> FM and sweep, (d) fast frequency stepping (<10 ms per point), and (e)
>> electronic attenuator with good accuracy down to -140 dBm.? The unit
>> is also pretty light and compact, at about 8 kg.? My generator came
>> with the optional pulse generator option but, unfortunately, not the rack mounting handles.
>>
>> If you're interested, datasheets are widely available on-line,
>> including at
>>
>> et.pdf
>>
>> Had I been able to personally evaluate some of the very low phase
>> noise HP units on offer, and had international shipping of those
>> monsters not been outrageously expensive, I may have gone in a
>> different direction. However, in the end I've been happy with the SML
>> 01 and have already completed the main project for which I bought it,
>> so it owes me little from this point.? One comment is that component
>> level schematics and diagnostic software seem to be not as readily
>> available as e.g. the Marconi and HP instruments. However, the
>> relative youth, excellent condition and low buying price of the SML 01 somewhat mitigated concerns I originally had regarding the service data.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Peter.
>>
>
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And the product was never designed for a 30+ year lifespan to start with. So whining about "suits" has no place here anyway.
Wilko
(who has been exposed to the "suits" problem, thank you very much ?)
|
Re: Spread the word -- Swap Meet Returns!
Blast.. I am envious! So much nice stuff for sale over in the US of A... And for a song, compared to what we can get over here (in NL that is).
Still have the fluorescent orange business card from Weird Stuff, from when I first visited the
US ?
Wilko
|
Consider that in the 60s 70s and 80s computer simulation did not exist so long term predictions and studies were hard if not impossible to perform! Today you have computer simulation tools that are able to simulate virtually everything including decomposition
of materials under a variety of conditions making things a lot easier?
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On Mar 17, 2022, at 12:02, greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy@...> wrote:
?
There is considerable lore regarding decomposing plastics and foams. Even today, we are learning about long term stability of these materials. The worst example I can think of is polyurethane. It looked very promising in the late
1960s, and was used in myriad products. Within fifteen years, that exuberence was crushed by costly disasters. A major cause for this was patent catfights and a shortcut in the formulation of the mass produced product. Another mega disaster? erupted in the
late 1970s and early 80s when the binder used in magnetic tape manufacture began to decompose. So far, this has not happened to data cassettes and floppy discs, but who knows?
??? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
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There is considerable lore regarding
decomposing plastics and foams. Even today, we are learning
about long term stability of these materials. The worst example
I can think of is polyurethane. It looked very promising in the
late 1960s, and was used in myriad products. Within fifteen
years, that exuberence was crushed by costly disasters. A major
cause for this was patent catfights and a shortcut in the
formulation of the mass produced product. Another mega disaster?
erupted in the late 1970s and early 80s when the binder used in
magnetic tape manufacture began to decompose. So far, this has
not happened to data cassettes and floppy discs, but who knows?
??? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
|
I've had good results cleaning off bad foam, with 'Fast Orange' automotive hand cleaner. I put a thin layer on the mess and lay it out in the sun for a while, then hose it off.
On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 5:21 AM Michael Kellett < mk@...> wrote: The Analyser's last known address was Cambridge, England. Damp, but cooler than Florida !
I made a mistake in my previous posts. I'm working on an 8903A and the 8903B at the same time. After I discovered the goo in the 8903B I picked up and photographed the pcb screen from the 8903A.
The 'A has brown sticky back foam which looks OK.
But when I looked at the pcb screen from the 'B all was revealed. It has black foam with clear signs of oozing and movement. I've pulled it off. I found the best way to get rid of the residue left on the screen was to warm it with a heat gun and rub it off with paper towels. (IPA turns it into disgusting sticky rubbery balls that are hard to remove.)
The pictures show the pcb screen from the 8903B. I wonder why HP went backwards in foam quality between the A and the B instruments.
MK
 
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Re: HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz
Hi Lothar problem is a hp yig drift cold to hot about 5mhz the round avantek drfift around 30mhz so even though the time to heat is small the yig still drift 30mhz?
actually it shouldnt take long for the YIG to heat up ,? the heater in a YTO actually is a small thermistor mounted on the BeO rod that holds the YIG Sphere , the thermistor has a low DC resistance as bias current is applied it heats
up fast , resistance increases and current drops so its not like a OXCO where the whole thing is heated
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Peter Hansen via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 10:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP YIG replacement 3-7GHz
?
Oh remember you start with a cold yig with heaters on the drift is around 30Mhz that is too much for the loop. I meaured that drift on actually units. Widen the loop in the 8563 makes the phasenoise become bad?
Yes HP typically used tuning sensitivity of 25-30MHz/mA intead of 20MHz which results in higher current draw , the question is whether the driver and PSU can handle this !
Usually temperature should not be a issue if you connect the heater?
On Mar 17, 2022, at 06:23, Peter Hansen via groups.io <oz1lpr@...> wrote:
?
Hello Guys I have been trying to adapt new Yigs to the 8560X series problem is The HP one need less current for Tuning the complete range. And the Loop in the 8560X series is allowing around
10Mhz of drift.
When needed for higher current the temperature diference is bigger meaning the Yig will drift more than 10Mhz. This leaves the unit either LO unlock ERR301 cold or? when hot.
Redesigning the loop for bigger drift is not an easy task and I did not succed yet.
I was using the Avantek Yigs that can be found on ebay rather cheap but it will not make a easy change
Hi Everyone,
HP YIG's have been failing due to age and some reports of batch oscillator transistor faults.?
Luis Cupido -?CT1DMK did conduct repairs until his transistor stock ran out. There are plenty of freebay units about,
good luck , and there is one reputable repair service about, but they are refurbished units,?not new, thus life expectancy is not guaranteed beyond initial 12 months.
I have been researching a very close replacement for your typical 3-7GHz YIG like the HP 5086-7903 and possibly others to suit spectrum analysers from DC-2.9GHz, 85/86 series possibly others.
A very close equivalent?unit is available after months of effort contacting Teledyne, The Teledyne FS3013R. Data sheet and an updated comparison sheet version 3.0 can be found in the files area
,YIG directory Paul created.
I recently received a quote from a Teledyne agent in Aus, a new FS3013R is approx. US$1,332 delivered to Australia. However, the greater the QTY the lower the cost. I would like to see a cost per unit for around US$900 delivered.
There is a catch, it is not a simple drop in and all will be OK. Extensive research and effort is needed to integrate the FS3013R into the analyser and it's YIG driver circuit along with the Cal process, however it is a very close fit?? ?
I would like to see a cost per unit less then US$900 delivered.?This brings me to a question without notice, is anyone interested in a large group buy, the?greater the QTY the lower the cost?
I just need numbers for now, the formalities can come later if the enthusiasm is there.
Regards
Gerald
Vk3GJM
|
Re: OT: Anyone know where to get EDC manuals?
Hi Victor,
Glad I could help.? And you're absolutely correct in stating that not many companie would do that.? That kind of service is getting to be the exception rather than the rule.??
I've needed schematics for repairing Mastech power supplies in the past, and they refuse to release them unless you purchased the unit from them and can provide a copy of the invoice.? Don't know if they've changed their policy on that, but that kind of treatment has caused me to refuse to purchase the Mastech brand.
Some manufacturers treat the manuals as if they were made of gold, charging more for the manuals that their equipment is worth.?
Cheers,
DaveM
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On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 09:35 AM, victor.silva wrote:
Thanks David.? Yes, I knew that Krohn-Hite took over EDC in 1998 and I contacted the Service Dept last night.
To my amazement the Service Manager at Krohn-Hite sent me a pdf of the Service/Calibration/Schematics first thing this morning.
Amazing, not many companies would do that now.
The manual you found is also useful so I thank you for that.
--Victor
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I am not a plastics guy but I am sure foam has a specifjed life expectancy ,? I think that agilent like most other manufacturer put a service life of probably 10 years on their products and picked a foam that was sure to last whatever the
expected service life was plus some extra margin !
I also tend to agree that agilent back in the days was a different company not as much driven by the MBAs
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of pianovt via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 11:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8903B Gooey Crystal
?
Sorry guys, but this cannot be blamed on "suits". Products of this vintage and quality class were not cost driven. The simple explanation is that HP rarely tested foam products to the degree they should be tested. Also, there is a lot that
can go wrong during foam manufacture; a foam can vary a lot from batch to batch. How do you test each batch of foam to make sure that it won't melt 30 years after the product leaves the factory?
This foam strip was simply an afterthought, it shouldn't have been used. The same applies to the foam in the calibration kit boxes. Whoever designed that had good intentions but didn't think too far into the future. It happens, these details sometimes slip
through.
Vladan
|
Sorry guys, but this cannot be blamed on "suits". Products of this vintage and quality class were not cost driven. The simple explanation is that HP rarely tested foam products to the degree they should be tested. Also, there is a lot that can go wrong during foam manufacture; a foam can vary a lot from batch to batch. How do you test each batch of foam to make sure that it won't melt 30 years after the product leaves the factory?
This foam strip was simply an afterthought, it shouldn't have been used. The same applies to the foam in the calibration kit boxes. Whoever designed that had good intentions but didn't think too far into the future. It happens, these details sometimes slip through.
Vladan
|
Dave McGuire
RubenRubio
Michael A. Terrell