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Date

Re: HP8568B manual quality

 

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All of the manuals I¡¯ve purchased from Artek are much better than your example.

George?


On Feb 22, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Lou Blasco <vk3alb@...> wrote:

?
Hi,

Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?

image.png


Regards

Lou
VK3ALB


Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

True, a shift register may be all you can get.? Making a counter can be more difficult because you may not have access to the preset lines on the flipflops.

I skipped from the 22V10 directly to CPLDs.? I had designs that I couldn't do in PALS.

Harvey

On 2/22/2022 3:14 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 2/22/22 14:04, Harvey White wrote:
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.

To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.

CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.

Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.
? No.? The very earliest PALs, like PAL16L8 etc, are combinatorial. But shortly thereafter, 16R8 (etc), the 'R' meaning "Registered", appeared.? These are sequential logic devices that store state and have feedback terms.? Still later, the 16V8 etc, (the 'V' meaning "Variable" or "Versatile", depending on who you ask) have still greater functionality.? It's easy to implement something like a shift register using PALs and nothing else.

???????????? -Dave


Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

On 2/22/22 15:26, Wilko Bulte wrote:
16V8 etc were GAL, not PAL, devices. Erasable, and more flexible architecturally than PAL devices.
The terms are used interchangeably all over the industry, just like the chips.

Used them when I did my first hardware design (professionally I mean). Shows my age I suppose :-/
Yup. Which means you know what you're talking about.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

16V8 etc were GAL, not PAL, devices. Erasable, and more flexible architecturally than PAL devices.

Used them when I did my first hardware design (professionally I mean). Shows my age I suppose :-/

Wilko


HP8568B manual quality

 

Hi,

Has anyone purchased HP8568B manuals from Artek and if so are the circuits better image quality than the attached example?

image.png


Regards

Lou
VK3ALB


PAL misconceptions, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

 

On 2/22/22 14:04, Harvey White wrote:
PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.
To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.
CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.
Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.
No. The very earliest PALs, like PAL16L8 etc, are combinatorial. But shortly thereafter, 16R8 (etc), the 'R' meaning "Registered", appeared. These are sequential logic devices that store state and have feedback terms. Still later, the 16V8 etc, (the 'V' meaning "Variable" or "Versatile", depending on who you ask) have still greater functionality. It's easy to implement something like a shift register using PALs and nothing else.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: 8516A cable question

 

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Points that way.

Harvey


On 2/22/2022 2:21 PM, Lothar baier wrote:

That¡¯s what I thought so the use of a PAL would point towards the control interface indeed being a parallel interface and not serial

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Harvey White via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.

To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.

CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.

Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.

Harvey

?

On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:

I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don¡¯t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: gk5220 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:

08516-60009

You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George


?

?


Re: 8516A cable question

Lothar baier
 

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Looking at the 8340 manual it states that PIN4/10/11/17 are used and corresponding to control bits 3/1/0/2? on the testset , I was looking at the 8516 manual and it shows 4 wires from the rear panel connector running to the A5 Doubler control ending up in a PAL that decodes the adress to control filters , no control bit designation is given !

So the main challenge would be to figure out the pins on the testset side ,? since this is all logic stuff I don¡¯t think there is a risk to just rigging up a 1-1 cable using DB25 connectors and try it

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: n8zmTWH via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

To start with, the 8516 test set does not use a serial communications scheme. The cable is most likely a parallel cable. Why it was specified as RS-232 is strange, unless the thought was that those were very common so a couple of crossed wires (pins 2 & 3 as I recall) were anticipated. Or, they simply did not use those pins since I doubt they needed 25 conductors anyway. This is based on my experience with the 8753 test sets, however,.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 2:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.

To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.

CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.

Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.

Harvey

?

On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:

I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don¡¯t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: gk5220 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:

08516-60009

You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George


?

?


Re: 8516A cable question

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

To start with, the 8516 test set does not use a serial communications scheme. The cable is most likely a parallel cable. Why it was specified as RS-232 is strange, unless the thought was that those were very common so a couple of crossed wires (pins 2 & 3 as I recall) were anticipated. Or, they simply did not use those pins since I doubt they needed 25 conductors anyway. This is based on my experience with the 8753 test sets, however,.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 2:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.

To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.

CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.

Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.

Harvey

?

On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:

I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don¡¯t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: gk5220 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:

08516-60009

You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George


?


Re: 8516A cable question

Lothar baier
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

That¡¯s what I thought so the use of a PAL would point towards the control interface indeed being a parallel interface and not serial

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Harvey White via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.

To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.

CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.

Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.

Harvey

?

On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:

I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don¡¯t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: gk5220 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:

08516-60009

You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George


?

?


Re: 8516A cable question

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

PALs are combinational logic, such as (using address lines)? A4 and A3 and not A2 and A1 and not A0.

To decode serial data, you need flip-flops, some storage to convert serial to parallel and then act on that.

CPLD's can do that, but with most PAL chips, depending on what's internal, it would be difficult.

Generally, PALs are used to decode address lines to enable a specific chip.

Harvey


On 2/22/2022 1:26 PM, Lothar baier wrote:

I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don¡¯t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: gk5220 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:

08516-60009

You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George

?


Re: HP 8662A Keycap "BACK SPACE" needed

 

Thanks for looking. If I should not find the right one in the next few weeks, maybe one with a different print from Your keyboard fits?

Best regards
Peter


Re: Storage Cap Ripple

 

The 8566B is not a standard Beast.
The power supply voltages are specified to a much higher accuracy than most instruments you would encounter, and for a reason.

For example, the +22V rail is specified for +-20mV, and the 20V rail for +-1mV.
First, make sure you use a very accurate DMM (the manual calls for using an HP3456A 6.5 digits DMM).
Second, your +22V rail is completely out of spec.

Obviously, adjusting the supplies is only the first step, and it will change the calibration of the instrument which is not an easy thing to correct, and requires equipment that you may or may not have.

I am not an expert on the YTO unlock problem, but I do know that everything has to be just right to make the YTO happy. You will not get far unless all rails are within specs!


Re: 8516A cable question

Lothar baier
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I know it is labeled RS232 but unfortunately that does not mean a regular RS232 Cable can be used , I looked through the service manual for the 8340B and it indicates the pin numbers on the rear panel connector of the 8340 but it refers to control bit numbers which would indicate a parallel port rather than serial , also the 8516 service manual indicates that the pins are connected to a PAL on the doubler control board , I am a RF not a digital guy but I don¡¯t think you can use a PAL as a serial decoder

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: gk5220 via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8516A cable question

?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:

08516-60009

You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George

?


Re: 8516A cable question

 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 07:20 AM, Lothar baier wrote:
08516-60009
You might a standard RS232 cable. It's labeled "CABLE ASSEMBLY, RS232" in the 8516A S-Parameter Test Set Operating and Service Manual.
-George


#141-66513

 


--

HP8558B Versus HP182T Sweep Fail.

Good year 2022 without the accursed bug.

Well there everyone

?

In April 2019 my HP8558B decided to let it do the sweep? Fig0 , I found that only with external sweep it worked, it was on the waiting list for a better analysis, however I was around the HP8116A and with external help I got there (well there Markl).

In December 2021, in a visual inspection of the HP8558B plugin, I found that some of the contacts (fingers) of the 4 switches were loose, and I thought it was here, and the novel that I summarize below began

Preliminary Notes: Understanding certain details implies access to the HP182T/C Service Manual.

I urge HP experts to speak up.

?

1st 2019 I lost the HP8558B scan Fig0

2nd 2021 I considered that the failure was due to lack of contact finger in the SW. Fig1 and Fig1.1 , ward work.

3rd mechanically fixing the fingers of the SW Fig2

4th Malfunction remains?

5th Test of the switches all OK, with the help of a kit adapted from the IC card HP10529-20005 Fig3 and fig4.

6th Why not use my HP180C+HP1802 and HP1821A that is stopped !! fig5 , because I haven't used it before ?

Test with the Main Frame HP180C and the HP8558B, after de-rusting the switches and adjusting, voil¨¢ HP8558B OK!!

7th Use 182T with HP1801 and HP1821 OFF, I confirm the failure is in the HP182T.

8th All voltages on HP182T OK.

9th Summary measurement of transistor and diode junctions (all?) OK

10? Measurement of HT -3KV ?? and 19KV ?? , result? +-2.9 and +-? 18KV, OK

10th Use of two 1V 100 Hz sine wave generators for input on the HP1801A and the EXT INPUT sweep on the 180C

11? Results in a distorted Lissajous image by pressing FIND BEAM Fig6

12th With Intensity CW almost at MAX. clear image Lissajous Fig7

13th In sweep INT values of UNBLANKING GATE board A7 pin14 is -0.2V should be -0.7V

14th Output on board A7 ALT TRIGGER pin13 for Plug-in not detected?

15th UNBLANKING SIGNAL output values also in A7 pin w4, is between +20 and +75V when it should be between +42 and +92V? DC values, and is not a square signal.

16th I'm in a fish situation with is tail in the mouth.

Best regards

Bem Hajam

PS: I am new in this site , missing N?? photos .

Hern?ni Capela


Re: HP 8662A Keycap "BACK SPACE" needed

 

Hello Peter,

Unfortunately , It is not a 8662A keyboard that I have

Best regards

eric F1GHB


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

Bonjour, some misinformation in a few replies.

35 US Code ¡ì 287 - "Limitation on damages" mentions effect of lack of notice and marking ion patented devices.

After issue, the patentee or assignee shoudl mark the equipment with patent numbers.

Nowadays "Virtual makring" allows a website link to all the applicable patents.


Check the HP manuals of the instrument for a list of applicable patents.

Jon


Re: RPG 5060-9444 (conversion LAMP to LED)

 

A situation when it is reasonable to replace a lamp with a LED and thankfully it's not blue!

Great job and great images, thank you.

Regards

Lou
VK3ALB


On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 3:14 PM ChrisBeee via <chrisbeee=[email protected]> wrote:
Very nice job, Yves! The idea of recycling the functional parts of a LED bulb is appealing, I like that a lot!
Thanks for sharing!
Chris


Re: HP 3048A software without floppy disks

 

BTW, you can just ignore the prompts to change floppy disks when asked, since all the files are one the same volume.