My down converter is something i use a lot with my 8640B sig gen when I? need a signal below 450 KHZ.? Unfortunately a clumsy accident killed the output.? The failure was traced to Q1 and Q2 on the converter amplifier assembly board.? Q2 is listed as a 2N2218A and Q1 is an in-house part number.? I used a 2n2222 for Q1 and that worked fine.? After repairs the difference between direct and down converted output was less? than 1 db.? This repair may seem mundane but the reason I mention all this is that the 2N2218A is not listed in Mouser and although DigiKey shows stock it is listed as obsolete.? I bought a few for insurance against future mishaps.? If you have this down converter you might want to the same.
Bill, K3PGB
|
Re: HP-8753E Option Key Installation Failure
If the serial numbers match, and you still get the fail message, I wonder if that indicates there's actually a hardware problem with your analyser and it can't complete the self-cal properly. These units are notorious for having the source module go bad.
I just remembered when I was adding the time domain option to mine that the switches had to be in the right position to have the eeprom be writable, but I had no issues other than that. I also have been busy with too many other things, and don't have very many "power on hours" on mine since just shortly after I got it.
I'm sure someone here that knows more will chime in - there is at least one person that was involved with the development of the 8753 at HP that's on this list...
Andrew
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 2:51 PM Rich Miller via <av8torrich= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Andrew:
This is the procedure I used:?
It looks to be identical to what you and anther poster has given me within your response. Where I get the error is on Step 8 on Page 8. I keep getting ¡°56 Option Cor FAIL¡± Rich ? From the service manual on page 3-5?? A9 Switch Positions? 1. Remove the power line cord from the analyzer.? 2. Set the analyzer on its side.? 3. Remove the two lower-rear comer bumpers from the bottom of the
instrument with the T-10 TORX screwdriver.? 4. Loosen the captive screw on the bottom cover¡¯s back edge, using a T-15
TORX screwdriver.? 5. Slide the cover toward the rear of the instrument.? 6. Move the switch as shown in Figure 3-l:
w Move the A9 switch to the Alter position before you run any of the
correction constant adjustment routines. This is the position for altering
the analyzer¡¯s correction constants.
w Move the A9 switch to the Normal position, after you have run correction
constant adjustment routines. This is the position for normal operating
conditions.?
Andrew On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 1:18 PM Andrew Hakman via <andrew.hakman= [email protected]> wrote: I believe there's a jumper or a dip switch that has to be set correctly to allow the eeprom to be written. The instructions are in the service manual.?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:06 PM Rich Miller via <av8torrich= [email protected]> wrote: All:
I posted about this over at the EEVBLOG, but I figured I should post it here too. I am having a problem loading the Harmonic and Time Domain Options (OPT2 & OPT10) for my HP-8753E. I have a License Key for my VNA¡¯s serial number, and the instrument posts the matching serial number as to what is printed on the instrument¡¯s physical label on the back.
When I follow the installation process I keep getting the ¡°OPT COR FAIL¡±. Some of the helpful folks on the EEVBLOG suggest that I may have to remove the EEPROM and force those bits in order to activate. While I am willing to do this, it does pose a degree of risk of corrupting my only EEPROM, not to mention I would have to invest in a Reader/Writer with that would accept this EEPROM package.
Before I take on this risk, I want to make sure there is nothing further I should try.
Rich
|
Help E4402B 1DR Option not working
I have an E4402B that shows options 1DR installed, but it doesn't seem to work as no BW smaller than 1 kHz can be selected. See picture.
What can I do to address this issue?
Thank you and Best, Francesco K5URG
|
Re: HP-8753E Option Key Installation Failure
Hi Andrew:
This is the procedure I used:?
It looks to be identical to what you and anther poster has given me within your response. Where I get the error is on Step 8 on Page 8. I keep getting ¡°56 Option Cor FAIL¡± Rich
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 11, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Andrew Hakman <andrew.hakman@...> wrote:
? From the service manual on page 3-5?? A9 Switch Positions? 1. Remove the power line cord from the analyzer.? 2. Set the analyzer on its side.? 3. Remove the two lower-rear comer bumpers from the bottom of the
instrument with the T-10 TORX screwdriver.? 4. Loosen the captive screw on the bottom cover¡¯s back edge, using a T-15
TORX screwdriver.? 5. Slide the cover toward the rear of the instrument.? 6. Move the switch as shown in Figure 3-l:
w Move the A9 switch to the Alter position before you run any of the
correction constant adjustment routines. This is the position for altering
the analyzer¡¯s correction constants.
w Move the A9 switch to the Normal position, after you have run correction
constant adjustment routines. This is the position for normal operating
conditions.?
Andrew On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 1:18 PM Andrew Hakman via <andrew.hakman= [email protected]> wrote: I believe there's a jumper or a dip switch that has to be set correctly to allow the eeprom to be written. The instructions are in the service manual.?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:06 PM Rich Miller via <av8torrich= [email protected]> wrote: All:
I posted about this over at the EEVBLOG, but I figured I should post it here too. I am having a problem loading the Harmonic and Time Domain Options (OPT2 & OPT10) for my HP-8753E. I have a License Key for my VNA¡¯s serial number, and the instrument posts the matching serial number as to what is printed on the instrument¡¯s physical label on the back.
When I follow the installation process I keep getting the ¡°OPT COR FAIL¡±. Some of the helpful folks on the EEVBLOG suggest that I may have to remove the EEPROM and force those bits in order to activate. While I am willing to do this, it does pose a degree of risk of corrupting my only EEPROM, not to mention I would have to invest in a Reader/Writer with that would accept this EEPROM package.
Before I take on this risk, I want to make sure there is nothing further I should try.
Rich
|
Re: HP-8753E Option Key Installation Failure
From the service manual on page 3-5?? A9 Switch Positions? 1. Remove the power line cord from the analyzer.? 2. Set the analyzer on its side.? 3. Remove the two lower-rear comer bumpers from the bottom of the
instrument with the T-10 TORX screwdriver.? 4. Loosen the captive screw on the bottom cover¡¯s back edge, using a T-15
TORX screwdriver.? 5. Slide the cover toward the rear of the instrument.? 6. Move the switch as shown in Figure 3-l:
w Move the A9 switch to the Alter position before you run any of the
correction constant adjustment routines. This is the position for altering
the analyzer¡¯s correction constants.
w Move the A9 switch to the Normal position, after you have run correction
constant adjustment routines. This is the position for normal operating
conditions.?
Andrew
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 1:18 PM Andrew Hakman via <andrew.hakman= [email protected]> wrote: I believe there's a jumper or a dip switch that has to be set correctly to allow the eeprom to be written. The instructions are in the service manual.?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:06 PM Rich Miller via <av8torrich= [email protected]> wrote: All:
I posted about this over at the EEVBLOG, but I figured I should post it here too. I am having a problem loading the Harmonic and Time Domain Options (OPT2 & OPT10) for my HP-8753E. I have a License Key for my VNA¡¯s serial number, and the instrument posts the matching serial number as to what is printed on the instrument¡¯s physical label on the back.
When I follow the installation process I keep getting the ¡°OPT COR FAIL¡±. Some of the helpful folks on the EEVBLOG suggest that I may have to remove the EEPROM and force those bits in order to activate. While I am willing to do this, it does pose a degree of risk of corrupting my only EEPROM, not to mention I would have to invest in a Reader/Writer with that would accept this EEPROM package.
Before I take on this risk, I want to make sure there is nothing further I should try.
Rich
|
A bit of a late reply, but I hope it is still of value.
The 1854-0441 was used as Q4 on the A17 boards for instruments with serial number prefixes in the range 2410A to 2532A. It is a general purpose power NPN transistor in a TO-3 package. In later instruments it was replaced --- without changing, to the best of my knowledge, any of the surrounding components --- with a TIP41A transistor which comes in a modern TO-220 package.
Thus, if you need to replace the 1854-0441 either go for a TIP41A (in which case you will need to accommodate the different footprint and replace/modify the small heat-sink), or look at the TIP41A specs and locate a reasonable replacement in a TO-3 package, which should not be hard.? Note that even though these are power transistors they are dissipating well below their rated maximum power in this circuit as they are mounted on tiny heat-sinks.
|
Re: HP-8753E Option Key Installation Failure
I believe there's a jumper or a dip switch that has to be set correctly to allow the eeprom to be written. The instructions are in the service manual.?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:06 PM Rich Miller via <av8torrich= [email protected]> wrote: All:
I posted about this over at the EEVBLOG, but I figured I should post it here too. I am having a problem loading the Harmonic and Time Domain Options (OPT2 & OPT10) for my HP-8753E. I have a License Key for my VNA¡¯s serial number, and the instrument posts the matching serial number as to what is printed on the instrument¡¯s physical label on the back.
When I follow the installation process I keep getting the ¡°OPT COR FAIL¡±. Some of the helpful folks on the EEVBLOG suggest that I may have to remove the EEPROM and force those bits in order to activate. While I am willing to do this, it does pose a degree of risk of corrupting my only EEPROM, not to mention I would have to invest in a Reader/Writer with that would accept this EEPROM package.
Before I take on this risk, I want to make sure there is nothing further I should try.
Rich
|
HP-8753E Option Key Installation Failure
All:
I posted about this over at the EEVBLOG, but I figured I should post it here too. I am having a problem loading the Harmonic and Time Domain Options (OPT2 & OPT10) for my HP-8753E. I have a License Key for my VNA¡¯s serial number, and the instrument posts the matching serial number as to what is printed on the instrument¡¯s physical label on the back.
When I follow the installation process I keep getting the ¡°OPT COR FAIL¡±. Some of the helpful folks on the EEVBLOG suggest that I may have to remove the EEPROM and force those bits in order to activate. While I am willing to do this, it does pose a degree of risk of corrupting my only EEPROM, not to mention I would have to invest in a Reader/Writer with that would accept this EEPROM package.
Before I take on this risk, I want to make sure there is nothing further I should try.
Rich
|
Re: [HP-Agilent-KI eysight-equipment] FM Tuner alignment generator?..
The 8640 can deviate 10.7 if you mix it down with e.g. the 11710 Down Converter. ?Or even any generator and a mixer; there¡¯s an app note for that, AN171-2.
?
Dave Wise
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Tom Lee via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2022 8:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] [HP-Agilent-KI eysight-equipment] FM Tuner alignment generator?..
?
Hi Bruce,
Although I've used the 8640 for FM alignment on occasion -- with great results -- I wouldn't want to have to use it on a regular basis. The FM modulator doesn't support a large enough deviation to use the instrument as a sweeper for tuning up a 10.7MHz IF chain,
so you have to do it manually. As much as I love that sig gen, it really wasn't born for this particular purpose. The 8601A, on the other hand, was. The Sencore is definitely a step down, but it still gets the job done. In pre-Covid times, I regularly saw
these at e-Fleas for a song. Or maybe it was the same unit, sitting unsold...
I never laid hands on an ST-1000. It sounds like a good bit of kit. Thanks for mentioning it.
--Cheers,
Tom
--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 2/10/2022 18:07, greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote:
I worked at a boutique hifi shop for a few years around 2015. I had an 8640 and it was fime for aligning FM tuners, as well as AM/SW and the occasional communications receiver. The shop had a Sound Technologies ST-1000,
but the other technician laid total claim to it. I got a Heathkit generator for working on? stereo FM decoders. Considering the technical standards and audio processing of stations in this area, a tip top quality alignment with a sweep generator would? be
a waste of time.? I did borrow and use a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator to repair a really beaten up Marantz 10 tuner. Trying to align an IF with Butterworth filters can drive you crazy, especially if you don't have the secret factory repair manual.
I never had an unhappy customer.
?? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
On 2/10/22 15:47, Dave Brown wrote:
Probably hard to find these days, but an 8690 sweeper mainframe with the
solid state 8698 100 KHz to 110 MHz plugin should do the job.
The 8698/8690 combo? has a full range calibrated attenuator on the
output(+10 to -110 dBm) and both internal and external modulation
capabilities are available. But- it IS big and heavy!
DaveB, NZ
?
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tony sayer
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 08:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] FM Tuner alignment generator?..
?
?
Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for FM
(87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment?
?
The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of
production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is to be
retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast receivers to
look after, that would be a useful unit to have!
?
Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one...
--
Tony Sayer
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
I am interested in this calibrator plug in as well. I have three of these wonderful scopes, and one needs to be recal.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 11, 2022, at 08:21, boddax@... wrote:
?Here the best i can do , i dont have pro tools
front and rear
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
To do a comprehensive job of aligning FM tuners you really want a generator designed for that job - especially if you want to verify or align FM stereo multiplex decoders.
One example of a relatively modern unit is the Sencore SG80.? Unfortunately, because it is so good for the task, the asking and selling prices for them are rather high.
There are other generators specifically made for the task as well.? There is a class of generators - sometimes called "standard" signal generators - specifically intended for servicing radios. They are modern, solid state, accurate, and reliable. There are many models from companies like Leader, Panasonic, Kenwood, Kikusui, Meguro and others.
Alternatively, if you like lab grade equipment and envision general use of the generator as well - particularly if you want frequency coverage to 1 GHz or more,, there is one good choice - the Rohde & Schwarz SML/SMV series with option B5.
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Hi,
Recently I was using my 8645A for tuner alignment (a Mcintsh MR71 tube tune). I tried all sorts of methods - the 8645 can sweep the FM range with an FM modulated signal on top of it. Finally, for IF alignment, I used fixed RF frequency with FM modulation of 100Hz and 500kHz deviation.
Really versatile piece of equipment... its repair gave me a lot of headaches but it was worth it. I got plenty of? valuable support from this group...
cheers
Martin
|
Here the best i can do , i dont have pro tools
front and rear
|
Re: 8560E Second Converter
Hi Dave limits needs to be accurate as the level is used in doublers too low does not work.
best regards Peter
Peter
The first fault was U700 and the series pass transistor on U700 supply that was gone. Replaced that and all the alarms cleared. The 600MHz is still a bit low but comparing the device 600MHz and a signal generator injected in at
the right level, the second converter output is still about 25dB low.
I will try and sort that out and then go back to U501 to see if I can raise the 600MHz.
Thanks for tip.
Dave
On 11/02/2022 2:17 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello in 90% cases of that failure your U501 in A15 is dead. It is a 18-19dBm MMIC . Not critical use ERA5 or MSA0586 etc.
also if your 300Mhz Cal output is bad it that failure. They look ok still if measuring current arount it but it looses amplification. It will not tripple the 100Mhz to 300 and then not double to the 600Mhz.
best regards Peter OZ1LPR
Askild
I have a sig gen and a specan that both go to 3GHz.
The test point on the converter is labelled LO test and I assume that this is the 600MHZ but I see nothing on this even though the 600MHz input is correct. If however it is the 3.9Ghz, then I have no way of seeing this without
mixing it to another frequency.
I can't see the output of the A8 Low Band mixer as it is again too high for my specan but the RF input is correct according to the manual at -21dBm and the drive voltages are -4.96V for the -5V rail and -4.14V for the -4V rail.
The 310.75MHz output of the converter when measured as per the manual is -59dBm where it should be -38dBm.? When I measure the voltage between the test connector J19 pins 15 and 6, the drive to the converter pin switch, I get
+14.48V which is in the range of the manual.
The next item in the manual is measuring the mixer bias on the test connector J19 pin 1 where I get -39mV which is outside the required range of -150mV and -800mV. After that it just says if outside the range, probably the second
converter is faulty.
The voltages to the second converter are:-
J12-1 Mixer Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -39mV
J12-2 +5VF:?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? 4.87V
J12-3 Analogue Gnd: ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Yes
J12-4 +10VR:?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ? 9.9V
J12-5 Pin Switch:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 14.48V
J12-7 Drain Current Sense: ??? ??? 4.86V
J12-8 Drain Voltage:??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? 4.85V
J12-9 Doubler Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 14.48V
J1210 Driver Bias:??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? 0.465V
Without the circuit of the converter I don't know the relevance of these but the only one that looks a bit strange is the doubler bias.
Do you have any thoughts after your experience?
I will pull it apart again and check out some of yours and Gerald's suggestions on the DC feeds, the feed throughs and where this LO test point comes from.
Thanks
Dave
On 8/02/2022 5:38 pm, Askild wrote:
Hi Dave,
I once fixed a 5086-7812? second converter with a 5021-8661 board.
The only problem on this, was cracked solder joints on the feed through capacitors on the board. So I did not have to open the cavity part of the converter.
HP had cut the legs after soldering, all the way down in the solder joint. This is a bad thing as it adds stress to the solder. I was sure HP would have known better.
I have pictures of it, but not at hand right now.
Do you have a second spectrum analyzer? You should check the output of the test port on the converter.
And also the input level of the LO and IF.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about the fault. What is the loss through the converter?
Guess this SA only go to 2.9GHz? so there is no high band?
What test equipment do you have to test and fault find with.
Regards,
Askild
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 6:20 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...> wrote:
Sorry I rushed that last email.
For more relevance the second converter I am talking about is a 5086-7957 and it is low on gain.
Dave
On 8/02/2022 1:10 pm, Dave Ireland wrote:
Has anyone had any joy repairing on of these.
Dave
|
Brian
Hope yours is as easy to fix as my
loaner unit.
Traced the internal and external count
through the counter chain (was worried the ECL chips had failed
but they are all good) up to the counters that drive the display
and it was all good.
The time base that triggers the store
of the count was not present and traced this back to the other
board and though the 5MHz reference was working the time base was
deadly quiet. Then I noticed an input into the gate around the
reference oscillator that was labelled Int/Ext. There is a input
on the back for ext time base option and the toggle switch next to
the input was set to external.
Switched to internal, exercised the
Int/Ext counter push button and all came good.
I was able to replicate the problem
easily. If you power off the machine set the time base input
switch on the back panel to external and then turn it on you get
the following display every time.
? 
Turning it back to internal reactivates
the count.
If yours is not the switch in the wrong place but you get the
display with the decimal points have a look at the time base
reference and check U6B output is 5Mhz out.
Dave
On 10/02/2022 8:12 pm, Dave Ireland
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I will pull the covers off tomorrow and have a
look. I downloaded a rough copy of the service manual.
Is there a way to workout which of the versions
the counter is.
The device is not mine but I would love to get it
working as I have soft spot for them having used it to tune
diplexers in the early 70s and liked them then.
Dave
VK6ZIP
-------- Original message --------
Date: 10/2/22 19:18 (GMT+08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8640B - No
Count
Hello
Dave,
?
I
have the same problem. I found a self-proclaimed expert, but
in the end he stopped communicating; his advice got me
nowhere. The main thing
I learned was that there have been many iterations of the
counter, and a
counter from one 8640B may not work at all in another,
showing just the zeroes
and decimal points you and I both get.
?
Please
keep me in the loop if you find someone who can fix the
counter module.
?
73
de Brian, VK2GCE
?
?
I've borrowed a 8640B which as far as high
level output
works well.
The problem is that the counter on both internal and external
selection shows
all zeros with three decimal points thrown in.
There seems to be a lot of knowledge out there and heaps of
discussion but I
did not see one on just "0"s without flashing. Has anyone
experienced
this before?
Dave
|
Re: 8560E Second Converter
Peter
The first fault was U700 and the series
pass transistor on U700 supply that was gone. Replaced that and
all the alarms cleared. The 600MHz is still a bit low but
comparing the device 600MHz and a signal generator injected in at
the right level, the second converter output is still about 25dB
low.
I will try and sort that out and then
go back to U501 to see if I can raise the 600MHz.
Thanks for tip.
Dave
On 11/02/2022 2:17 pm, Peter Hansen
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello in 90% cases of that failure your U501 in A15 is dead. It
is a 18-19dBm MMIC . Not critical use ERA5 or MSA0586 etc.
also if your 300Mhz Cal output is bad it that failure. They look
ok still if measuring current arount it but it looses
amplification. It will not tripple the 100Mhz to 300 and then
not double to the 600Mhz.
best regards Peter OZ1LPR
Askild
I have a sig gen and a specan
that both go to 3GHz.
The test point on the converter
is labelled LO test and I assume that this is the 600MHZ but I
see nothing on this even though the 600MHz input is correct.
If however it is the 3.9Ghz, then I have no way of seeing this
without mixing it to another frequency.
I can't see the output of the A8
Low Band mixer as it is again too high for my specan but the
RF input is correct according to the manual at -21dBm and the
drive voltages are -4.96V for the -5V rail and -4.14V for the
-4V rail.
The 310.75MHz output of the
converter when measured as per the manual is -59dBm where it
should be -38dBm.? When I measure the voltage between the test
connector J19 pins 15 and 6, the drive to the converter pin
switch, I get +14.48V which is in the range of the manual.
The next item in the manual is
measuring the mixer bias on the test connector J19 pin 1 where
I get -39mV which is outside the required range of -150mV and
-800mV. After that it just says if outside the range, probably
the second converter is faulty.
The voltages to the second
converter are:-
J12-1 Mixer Bias:??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? -39mV
J12-2 +5VF:?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????
??? ??? ??? 4.87V
J12-3 Analogue Gnd: ??? ??? ???
??? ??? Yes
J12-4 +10VR:?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ? 9.9V
J12-5 Pin Switch:??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? 14.48V
J12-7 Drain Current Sense: ???
??? 4.86V
J12-8 Drain Voltage:??? ??? ???
?? ?? ?? 4.85V
J12-9 Doubler Bias:??? ??? ???
??? ??? 14.48V
J1210 Driver Bias:??? ?? ?? ???
??? ?? 0.465V
Without the circuit of the
converter I don't know the relevance of these but the only one
that looks a bit strange is the doubler bias.
Do you have any thoughts after
your experience?
I will pull it apart again and
check out some of yours and Gerald's suggestions on the DC
feeds, the feed throughs and where this LO test point comes
from.
Thanks
Dave
On 8/02/2022 5:38 pm, Askild
wrote:
Hi Dave,
I once fixed a 5086-7812? second converter with a
5021-8661 board.
The only problem on this, was cracked solder joints on
the feed through capacitors on the board. So I did not
have to open the cavity part of the converter.
HP had cut the legs after soldering, all the way down
in the solder joint. This is a bad thing as it adds stress
to the solder. I was sure HP would have known better.
I have pictures of it, but not at hand right now.
Do you have a second spectrum analyzer? You should
check the output of the test port on the converter.
And also the input level of the LO and IF.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about the fault. What
is the loss through the converter?
Guess this SA only go to 2.9GHz? so there is no high
band?
What test equipment do you have to test and fault find
with.
Regards,
Askild
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at
6:20 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...>
wrote:
Sorry I rushed that last email.
For more relevance the second converter I am
talking about is a 5086-7957 and it is low on gain.
Dave
On 8/02/2022 1:10 pm, Dave Ireland wrote:
Has anyone had any joy repairing
on of these.
Dave
|
Re: 8560E Second Converter
Wow a bit ordinary for HP.
I am loaning one of those nano spec an
that proports to go to 4.4GHz and check the LO and the output of
the 1st mixer.
Then I will go back in and have a
closer look at all the solder joints.
Dave
On 11/02/2022 3:18 pm, Askild wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi,
Just for completeness I will share a couple of pictures of
the second converter in a 8563A that I fixed.
In the first picture, it was not easy to see the issue:
I then grabbed a better camera to get better close in shot:
So it is obvious that they cut the legs after soldering,
and they cut down into the solder joint.
If you cut like this, you need to re-solder the joint! This
is one of the first things I learned at the soldering course
at my first job.
Regards,
Askild
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 1:02
AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...>
wrote:
Askild
After my email I pulled it apart again and
had a good look. Nothing stood out other than some of the
soldering looked a bit cold. The feed thrus where ok, nice
and shinny.
It was interesting about the voltages. The
descriptions in the manual are all wrong with only 5v,
mixer bias and "pin switch" being used and repeated
accross several of the pins.?
I will see if I can source a higher spec an
to check the LO.
Thanks
Dave
-------- Original message --------
Date: 11/2/22 04:22 (GMT+08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8560E
Second Converter
Hi Dave,
The test port on the second converter should be
3.6GHz (6*600MHz).
Normally I think that the first mixer is the part
that is most likely to fail, as its exposed to over
power or dc voltage from the input connector.
It will be difficult to fault find without test
instrument that go above 3GHz.?
You don't need a full lab of equipment that go above
3GHz, but having one that can detect power would help.
So a power meter, or maybe just a diode detector that
is usable above 3 GHz. You don't need exact measurement,
you could compare a known power level from your signal
generator at 3GHz, to what come out of mixer at 3.9GHz.
Will not be accurate, but should not be 20dB difference.
Also, an ADF4351 will go to 4.4GHz. You can get
complete units with touch screen. Here would be the
same, set the frequency at 3GHz, and measure level with
your spectrum analyzer, making sure the level is correct
for the second converter (use attenuators if necessary),
then increase frequency to 1st IF (3.9xxGHz) and measure
output of second converter with your SA.
You could possibly also make a down converter with a
mixer and a LO source.
So I think you need to invest in something that lets
you either measure or source above 3GHz, if you don't
know somebody that have equipment you could borrow.
I can't answer on your voltage measurements,
hopefully someone else can help.
Regards,
Askild
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at
8:00 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...>
wrote:
Askild
I have a sig gen and a specan that both go to
3GHz.
The test point on the converter is labelled LO
test and I assume that this is the 600MHZ but I see
nothing on this even though the 600MHz input is
correct. If however it is the 3.9Ghz, then I have no
way of seeing this without mixing it to another
frequency.
I can't see the output of the A8 Low Band mixer
as it is again too high for my specan but the RF
input is correct according to the manual at -21dBm
and the drive voltages are -4.96V for the -5V rail
and -4.14V for the -4V rail.
The 310.75MHz output of the converter when
measured as per the manual is -59dBm where it should
be -38dBm.? When I measure the voltage between the
test connector J19 pins 15 and 6, the drive to the
converter pin switch, I get +14.48V which is in the
range of the manual.
The next item in the manual is measuring the
mixer bias on the test connector J19 pin 1 where I
get -39mV which is outside the required range of
-150mV and -800mV. After that it just says if
outside the range, probably the second converter is
faulty.
The voltages to the second converter are:-
J12-1 Mixer Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -39mV
J12-2 +5VF:?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???
4.87V
J12-3 Analogue Gnd: ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Yes
J12-4 +10VR:?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?
9.9V
J12-5 Pin Switch:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 14.48V
J12-7 Drain Current Sense: ??? ??? 4.86V
J12-8 Drain Voltage:??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? 4.85V
J12-9 Doubler Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 14.48V
J12-10 Driver Bias:??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? 0.465V
Without the circuit of the converter I don't know
the relevance of these but the only one that looks a
bit strange is the doubler bias.
Do you have any thoughts after your experience?
I will pull it apart again and check out some of
yours and Gerald's suggestions on the DC feeds, the
feed throughs and where this LO test point comes
from.
Thanks
Dave
On 8/02/2022 5:38 pm, Askild wrote:
Hi Dave,
I once fixed a 5086-7812? second converter
with a 5021-8661 board.
The only problem on this, was cracked solder
joints on the feed through capacitors on the
board. So I did not have to open the cavity part
of the converter.
HP had cut the legs after soldering, all the
way down in the solder joint. This is a bad
thing as it adds stress to the solder. I was
sure HP would have known better.
I have pictures of it, but not at hand right
now.
Do you have a second spectrum analyzer? You
should check the output of the test port on the
converter.
And also the input level of the LO and IF.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about the
fault. What is the loss through the converter?
Guess this SA only go to 2.9GHz? so there is
no high band?
What test equipment do you have to test and
fault find with.
Regards,
Askild
On Tue, Feb 8,
2022 at 6:20 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...>
wrote:
Sorry I rushed that last email.
For more relevance the second converter I
am talking about is a 5086-7957 and it is
low on gain.
Dave
On 8/02/2022 1:10 pm, Dave Ireland wrote:
Has anyone had any
joy repairing on of these.
Dave
|
Re: 8560E Second Converter
Hi,
Just for completeness I will share a couple of pictures of the second converter in a 8563A that I fixed. In the first picture, it was not easy to see the issue:
I then grabbed a better camera to get better close in shot: So it is obvious that they cut the legs after soldering, and they cut down into the solder joint.
If you cut like this, you need to re-solder the joint! This is one of the first things I learned at the soldering course at my first job.
Regards, Askild
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 1:02 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...> wrote: Askild
After my email I pulled it apart again and had a good look. Nothing stood out other than some of the soldering looked a bit cold. The feed thrus where ok, nice and shinny.
It was interesting about the voltages. The descriptions in the manual are all wrong with only 5v, mixer bias and "pin switch" being used and repeated accross several of the pins.?
I will see if I can source a higher spec an to check the LO.
Thanks
Dave
-------- Original message -------- Date: 11/2/22 04:22 (GMT+08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8560E Second Converter
Hi Dave,
The test port on the second converter should be 3.6GHz (6*600MHz). Normally I think that the first mixer is the part that is most likely to fail, as its exposed to over power or dc voltage from the input connector. It will be difficult to fault find without test instrument that go above 3GHz.? You don't need a full lab of equipment that go above 3GHz, but having one that can detect power would help. So a power meter, or maybe just a diode detector that is usable above 3 GHz. You don't need exact measurement, you could compare a known power level from your signal generator at 3GHz, to what come out of mixer at 3.9GHz. Will not be accurate, but should not be 20dB difference. Also, an ADF4351 will go to 4.4GHz. You can get complete units with touch screen. Here would be the same, set the frequency at 3GHz, and measure level with your spectrum analyzer, making sure the level is correct for the second converter (use attenuators if necessary), then increase frequency to 1st IF (3.9xxGHz) and measure output of second converter with your SA. You could possibly also make a down converter with a mixer and a LO source.
So I think you need to invest in something that lets you either measure or source above 3GHz, if you don't know somebody that have equipment you could borrow.
I can't answer on your voltage measurements, hopefully someone else can help.
Regards, Askild
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 8:00 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...> wrote:
Askild
I have a sig gen and a specan that both
go to 3GHz.
The test point on the converter is
labelled LO test and I assume that this is the 600MHZ but I see
nothing on this even though the 600MHz input is correct. If
however it is the 3.9Ghz, then I have no way of seeing this
without mixing it to another frequency.
I can't see the output of the A8 Low
Band mixer as it is again too high for my specan but the RF input
is correct according to the manual at -21dBm and the drive
voltages are -4.96V for the -5V rail and -4.14V for the -4V rail.
The 310.75MHz output of the converter
when measured as per the manual is -59dBm where it should be
-38dBm.? When I measure the voltage between the test connector J19
pins 15 and 6, the drive to the converter pin switch, I get
+14.48V which is in the range of the manual.
The next item in the manual is
measuring the mixer bias on the test connector J19 pin 1 where I
get -39mV which is outside the required range of -150mV and
-800mV. After that it just says if outside the range, probably the
second converter is faulty.
The voltages to the second converter
are:-
J12-1 Mixer Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
??? -39mV
J12-2 +5VF:?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???
??? ??? 4.87V
J12-3 Analogue Gnd: ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Yes
J12-4 +10VR:?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ? 9.9V
J12-5 Pin Switch:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
??? 14.48V
J12-7 Drain Current Sense: ??? ???
4.86V
J12-8 Drain Voltage:??? ??? ??? ?? ??
?? 4.85V
J12-9 Doubler Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
14.48V
J12-10 Driver Bias:??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??
0.465V
Without the circuit of the converter I
don't know the relevance of these but the only one that looks a
bit strange is the doubler bias.
Do you have any thoughts after your
experience?
I will pull it apart again and check
out some of yours and Gerald's suggestions on the DC feeds, the
feed throughs and where this LO test point comes from.
Thanks
Dave
On 8/02/2022 5:38 pm, Askild wrote:
Hi Dave,
I once fixed a 5086-7812? second converter with a 5021-8661
board.
The only problem on this, was cracked solder joints on the
feed through capacitors on the board. So I did not have to
open the cavity part of the converter.
HP had cut the legs after soldering, all the way down in
the solder joint. This is a bad thing as it adds stress to the
solder. I was sure HP would have known better.
I have pictures of it, but not at hand right now.
Do you have a second spectrum analyzer? You should check
the output of the test port on the converter.
And also the input level of the LO and IF.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about the fault. What is
the loss through the converter?
Guess this SA only go to 2.9GHz? so there is no high band?
What test equipment do you have to test and fault find
with.
Regards,
Askild
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 6:20 AM
Dave Ireland < mirrors@...>
wrote:
Sorry I rushed that last email.
For more relevance the second converter I am talking
about is a 5086-7957 and it is low on gain.
Dave
On 8/02/2022 1:10 pm, Dave Ireland wrote:
Has anyone had any joy repairing on
of these.
Dave
|
Re: 8560E Second Converter
Hello in 90% cases of that failure your U501 in A15 is dead. It is a 18-19dBm MMIC . Not critical use ERA5 or MSA0586 etc.
also if your 300Mhz Cal output is bad it that failure. They look ok still if measuring current arount it but it looses amplification. It will not tripple the 100Mhz to 300 and then not double to the 600Mhz.
best regards Peter OZ1LPR
Askild
I have a sig gen and a specan that both go to 3GHz.
The test point on the converter is labelled LO test and I assume that this is the 600MHZ but I see nothing on this even though the 600MHz input is correct. If however it is the 3.9Ghz, then I have no way of seeing this without
mixing it to another frequency.
I can't see the output of the A8 Low Band mixer as it is again too high for my specan but the RF input is correct according to the manual at -21dBm and the drive voltages are -4.96V for the -5V rail and -4.14V for the -4V rail.
The 310.75MHz output of the converter when measured as per the manual is -59dBm where it should be -38dBm.? When I measure the voltage between the test connector J19 pins 15 and 6, the drive to the converter pin switch, I get
+14.48V which is in the range of the manual.
The next item in the manual is measuring the mixer bias on the test connector J19 pin 1 where I get -39mV which is outside the required range of -150mV and -800mV. After that it just says if outside the range, probably the second
converter is faulty.
The voltages to the second converter are:-
J12-1 Mixer Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -39mV
J12-2 +5VF:?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? 4.87V
J12-3 Analogue Gnd: ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Yes
J12-4 +10VR:?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ? 9.9V
J12-5 Pin Switch:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 14.48V
J12-7 Drain Current Sense: ??? ??? 4.86V
J12-8 Drain Voltage:??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? 4.85V
J12-9 Doubler Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 14.48V
J12-10 Driver Bias:??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? 0.465V
Without the circuit of the converter I don't know the relevance of these but the only one that looks a bit strange is the doubler bias.
Do you have any thoughts after your experience?
I will pull it apart again and check out some of yours and Gerald's suggestions on the DC feeds, the feed throughs and where this LO test point comes from.
Thanks
Dave
On 8/02/2022 5:38 pm, Askild wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Dave,
I once fixed a 5086-7812? second converter with a 5021-8661 board.
The only problem on this, was cracked solder joints on the feed through capacitors on the board. So I did not have to open the cavity part of the converter.
HP had cut the legs after soldering, all the way down in the solder joint. This is a bad thing as it adds stress to the solder. I was sure HP would have known better.
I have pictures of it, but not at hand right now.
Do you have a second spectrum analyzer? You should check the output of the test port on the converter.
And also the input level of the LO and IF.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about the fault. What is the loss through the converter?
Guess this SA only go to 2.9GHz? so there is no high band?
What test equipment do you have to test and fault find with.
Regards,
Askild
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 6:20 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...> wrote:
Sorry I rushed that last email.
For more relevance the second converter I am talking about is a 5086-7957 and it is low on gain.
Dave
On 8/02/2022 1:10 pm, Dave Ireland wrote:
Has anyone had any joy repairing on of these.
Dave
|
Re: [HP-Agilent-KI eysight-equipment] FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Hi Bruce,
Although I've used the 8640 for FM alignment on occasion -- with
great results -- I wouldn't want to have to use it on a regular
basis. The FM modulator doesn't support a large enough deviation to
use the instrument as a sweeper for tuning up a 10.7MHz IF chain, so
you have to do it manually. As much as I love that sig gen, it
really wasn't born for this particular purpose. The 8601A, on the
other hand, was. The Sencore is definitely a step down, but it still
gets the job done. In pre-Covid times, I regularly saw these at
e-Fleas for a song. Or maybe it was the same unit, sitting unsold...
I never laid hands on an ST-1000. It sounds like a good bit of kit.
Thanks for mentioning it.
--Cheers,
Tom
--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 2/10/2022 18:07, greenboxmaven via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I worked at a boutique hifi shop for a
few years around 2015. I had an 8640 and it was fime for
aligning FM tuners, as well as AM/SW and the occasional
communications receiver. The shop had a Sound Technologies
ST-1000, but the other technician laid total claim to it. I
got a Heathkit generator for working on? stereo FM decoders.
Considering the technical standards and audio processing of
stations in this area, a tip top quality alignment with a
sweep generator would? be a waste of time.? I did borrow and
use a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator to repair a
really beaten up Marantz 10 tuner. Trying to align an IF with
Butterworth filters can drive you crazy, especially if you
don't have the secret factory repair manual. I never had an
unhappy customer.
?? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
On 2/10/22 15:47, Dave Brown wrote:
Probably hard to find these days, but an 8690 sweeper mainframe with the
solid state 8698 100 KHz to 110 MHz plugin should do the job.
The 8698/8690 combo has a full range calibrated attenuator on the
output(+10 to -110 dBm) and both internal and external modulation
capabilities are available. But- it IS big and heavy!
DaveB, NZ
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tony sayer
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 08:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for FM
(87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment?
The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of
production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is to be
retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast receivers to
look after, that would be a useful unit to have!
Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one...
--
Tony Sayer
|
Martin