Looking for an extra Button Cap for HP3312A Restoration
Hi - I am hoping someone may have an extra push button cap to replace a missing one on my HP3312A.? These button caps were used in many of the 1970's vintage instruments. If anyone would be willing to help out please contact me at jrf100@.... Thanks for any help you may offer. Jim 
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Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
I worked at a boutique hifi shop for a
few years around 2015. I had an 8640 and it was fime for
aligning FM tuners, as well as AM/SW and the occasional
communications receiver. The shop had a Sound Technologies
ST-1000, but the other technician laid total claim to it. I got
a Heathkit generator for working on? stereo FM decoders.
Considering the technical standards and audio processing of
stations in this area, a tip top quality alignment with a sweep
generator would? be a waste of time.? I did borrow and use a
spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator to repair a really
beaten up Marantz 10 tuner. Trying to align an IF with
Butterworth filters can drive you crazy, especially if you don't
have the secret factory repair manual. I never had an
unhappy customer.
?? Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
On 2/10/22 15:47, Dave Brown wrote:
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Show quoted text
Probably hard to find these days, but an 8690 sweeper mainframe with the
solid state 8698 100 KHz to 110 MHz plugin should do the job.
The 8698/8690 combo has a full range calibrated attenuator on the
output(+10 to -110 dBm) and both internal and external modulation
capabilities are available. But- it IS big and heavy!
DaveB, NZ
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tony sayer
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 08:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for FM
(87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment?
The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of
production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is to be
retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast receivers to
look after, that would be a useful unit to have!
Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one...
--
Tony Sayer
|
Re: 8560E Second Converter
Askild
After my email I pulled it apart again and had a good look. Nothing stood out other than some of the soldering looked a bit cold. The feed thrus where ok, nice and shinny.
It was interesting about the voltages. The descriptions in the manual are all wrong with only 5v, mixer bias and "pin switch" being used and repeated accross several of the pins.?
I will see if I can source a higher spec an to check the LO.
Thanks
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Askild <megafluffy@...> Date: 11/2/22 04:22 (GMT+08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8560E Second Converter
Hi Dave,
The test port on the second converter should be 3.6GHz (6*600MHz). Normally I think that the first mixer is the part that is most likely to fail, as its exposed to over power or dc voltage from the input connector. It will be difficult to fault find without test instrument that go above 3GHz.? You don't need a full lab of equipment that go above 3GHz, but having one that can detect power would help. So a power meter, or maybe just a diode detector that is usable above 3 GHz. You don't need exact measurement, you could compare a known power level from your signal generator at 3GHz, to what come out of mixer at 3.9GHz. Will not be accurate, but should not be 20dB difference. Also, an ADF4351 will go to 4.4GHz. You can get complete units with touch screen. Here would be the same, set the frequency at 3GHz, and measure level with your spectrum analyzer, making sure the level is correct for the second converter (use attenuators if necessary), then increase frequency to 1st IF (3.9xxGHz) and measure output of second converter with your SA. You could possibly also make a down converter with a mixer and a LO source.
So I think you need to invest in something that lets you either measure or source above 3GHz, if you don't know somebody that have equipment you could borrow.
I can't answer on your voltage measurements, hopefully someone else can help.
Regards, Askild
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 8:00 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...> wrote:
Askild
I have a sig gen and a specan that both
go to 3GHz.
The test point on the converter is
labelled LO test and I assume that this is the 600MHZ but I see
nothing on this even though the 600MHz input is correct. If
however it is the 3.9Ghz, then I have no way of seeing this
without mixing it to another frequency.
I can't see the output of the A8 Low
Band mixer as it is again too high for my specan but the RF input
is correct according to the manual at -21dBm and the drive
voltages are -4.96V for the -5V rail and -4.14V for the -4V rail.
The 310.75MHz output of the converter
when measured as per the manual is -59dBm where it should be
-38dBm.? When I measure the voltage between the test connector J19
pins 15 and 6, the drive to the converter pin switch, I get
+14.48V which is in the range of the manual.
The next item in the manual is
measuring the mixer bias on the test connector J19 pin 1 where I
get -39mV which is outside the required range of -150mV and
-800mV. After that it just says if outside the range, probably the
second converter is faulty.
The voltages to the second converter
are:-
J12-1 Mixer Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
??? -39mV
J12-2 +5VF:?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???
??? ??? 4.87V
J12-3 Analogue Gnd: ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Yes
J12-4 +10VR:?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ? 9.9V
J12-5 Pin Switch:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
??? 14.48V
J12-7 Drain Current Sense: ??? ???
4.86V
J12-8 Drain Voltage:??? ??? ??? ?? ??
?? 4.85V
J12-9 Doubler Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
14.48V
J12-10 Driver Bias:??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??
0.465V
Without the circuit of the converter I
don't know the relevance of these but the only one that looks a
bit strange is the doubler bias.
Do you have any thoughts after your
experience?
I will pull it apart again and check
out some of yours and Gerald's suggestions on the DC feeds, the
feed throughs and where this LO test point comes from.
Thanks
Dave
On 8/02/2022 5:38 pm, Askild wrote:
Hi Dave,
I once fixed a 5086-7812? second converter with a 5021-8661
board.
The only problem on this, was cracked solder joints on the
feed through capacitors on the board. So I did not have to
open the cavity part of the converter.
HP had cut the legs after soldering, all the way down in
the solder joint. This is a bad thing as it adds stress to the
solder. I was sure HP would have known better.
I have pictures of it, but not at hand right now.
Do you have a second spectrum analyzer? You should check
the output of the test port on the converter.
And also the input level of the LO and IF.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about the fault. What is
the loss through the converter?
Guess this SA only go to 2.9GHz? so there is no high band?
What test equipment do you have to test and fault find
with.
Regards,
Askild
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 6:20 AM
Dave Ireland < mirrors@...>
wrote:
Sorry I rushed that last email.
For more relevance the second converter I am talking
about is a 5086-7957 and it is low on gain.
Dave
On 8/02/2022 1:10 pm, Dave Ireland wrote:
Has anyone had any joy repairing on
of these.
Dave
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Are you wanting to align IFs or frontends?
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Hi Tony,
Let's look at what you are doing.? Firstly, I do a lot of FM tuner alignment, and I have an ST1000A.? I don't have a great deal of luck using the double sweep feature, and it isn't a sweep as much as high modulation levels.? Your deviation is 150 KHz to 200 KHz only, and a sweeper covers far more bandwidth.? I use a spectrum analyser when I want to do that.
Some times you must follow the manufactures procedure in the manual.? One method that works best is to modulate 75 KHz in mono, then align for minimum distortion.? That even makes sense!? The THD analyser would measure 0.03% for the very best tuner, many sit around 0.15% THD.? So you could use an HP 333A or 334A or better, like a 339A.? Even a Leader THD meter would be fine.? I use an 8656A, you could use an 8657A as well.? You do want an accurate frequency, which the ST1000A cannot provide.? Other signal generators might only send a signal out on odd frequencies, like the Sencore SG80, which you will quickly find not suitable for tracking alignments.? I do use that one for distortion and stereo alignment work.
To do really good alignment work, you do need a good generator or two (I use two to avoid constantly changing frequency), and the same instrument will provide a low distortion modulated signal that will allow you do adjust for minimum distortion.? There are other techniques used as well, so training is critical as well.? The ST1000A is not a magic bullet and isn't always suitable.? You definitely need another generator if you intend to use an ST1000A.? In order to get accurate signal levels I bought a Keysight N9310A - they ain't cheap!? But if you get an HP 8656A or B calibrated and correct for impedance (from 50R to 75R) you should be close.? I also use an RF power meter.? There is no end to stuff you could use to do a better job!
I hope that helps, Chris
|
Re: Looking for HP3478A feet
Hello Nigel,
would you have a picture of what you are looking for? I think I have some of these wire stand-offs, if that is what you need...
Chris
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
HP8340B and 8341B will do it. So will the 8340A and 8341A if you can work without FM modulation
Quoting Tom Lee <tomlee@...>
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The HP8601A is a good choice. It¡¯s old-school analog. If you¡¯re fussy about frequency accuracy, you¡¯ll want to connect a frequency counter, but that¡¯s easily done. These don¡¯t take up much bench space, and are easy to fix.
There¡¯s also a Sencore alignment generator, whose model number escapes me at the moment. I¡¯ll post later with it if no one else chimes in. I used to use one decades ago in a TV service shop, and it got the job done. I¡¯ve since seen many at e-flea markets for a song. Not HP, but if you need a fine service-grade instrument, it¡¯s a great choice.
¡ª°ä³ó±ð±ð°ù²õ
Tom
Sent from my iThing, so please forgive typos and brevity.
On Feb 10, 2022, at 11:07 AM, tony sayer <tony@...> wrote:
?
Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for
FM (87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment?
The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of
production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is
to be retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast
receivers to look after, that would be a useful unit to have!
Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one...
--
Tony Sayer
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
SG-165. That¡¯s the Sencore gen I was trying to remember.
Slow neurons!
Sent from my iThing, so please forgive typos and brevity.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:53 PM, Tom Lee <tomlee@...> wrote:
?The HP8601A is a good choice. It¡¯s old-school analog. If you¡¯re fussy about frequency accuracy, you¡¯ll want to connect a frequency counter, but that¡¯s easily done. These don¡¯t take up much bench space, and are easy to fix.
There¡¯s also a Sencore alignment generator, whose model number escapes me at the moment. I¡¯ll post later with it if no one else chimes in. I used to use one decades ago in a TV service shop, and it got the job done. I¡¯ve since seen many at e-flea markets for a song. Not HP, but if you need a fine service-grade instrument, it¡¯s a great choice.
¡ª°ä³ó±ð±ð°ù²õ
Tom
Sent from my iThing, so please forgive typos and brevity.
On Feb 10, 2022, at 11:07 AM, tony sayer <tony@...> wrote:
?
Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for
FM (87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment?
The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of
production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is
to be retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast
receivers to look after, that would be a useful unit to have!
Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one...
--
Tony Sayer
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
The HP8601A is a good choice. It¡¯s old-school analog. If you¡¯re fussy about frequency accuracy, you¡¯ll want to connect a frequency counter, but that¡¯s easily done. These don¡¯t take up much bench space, and are easy to fix.
There¡¯s also a Sencore alignment generator, whose model number escapes me at the moment. I¡¯ll post later with it if no one else chimes in. I used to use one decades ago in a TV service shop, and it got the job done. I¡¯ve since seen many at e-flea markets for a song. Not HP, but if you need a fine service-grade instrument, it¡¯s a great choice.
¡ª°ä³ó±ð±ð°ù²õ
Tom
Sent from my iThing, so please forgive typos and brevity.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 10, 2022, at 11:07 AM, tony sayer <tony@...> wrote:
?
Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for
FM (87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment?
The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of
production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is
to be retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast
receivers to look after, that would be a useful unit to have!
Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one...
--
Tony Sayer
|
Re: FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Probably hard to find these days, but an 8690 sweeper mainframe with the
solid state 8698 100 KHz to 110 MHz plugin should do the job.
The 8698/8690 combo has a full range calibrated attenuator on the
output(+10 to -110 dBm) and both internal and external modulation
capabilities are available. But- it IS big and heavy!
DaveB, NZ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected][mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of tony sayer Sent: Friday, February 11, 2022 08:06 To: [email protected]Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] FM Tuner alignment generator?.. Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for FM (87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment? The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is to be retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast receivers to look after, that would be a useful unit to have! Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one... -- Tony Sayer
|
Re: 8560E Second Converter
Hi Dave,
The test port on the second converter should be 3.6GHz (6*600MHz). Normally I think that the first mixer is the part that is most likely to fail, as its exposed to over power or dc voltage from the input connector. It will be difficult to fault find without test instrument that go above 3GHz.? You don't need a full lab of equipment that go above 3GHz, but having one that can detect power would help. So a power meter, or maybe just a diode detector that is usable above 3 GHz. You don't need exact measurement, you could compare a known power level from your signal generator at 3GHz, to what come out of mixer at 3.9GHz. Will not be accurate, but should not be 20dB difference. Also, an ADF4351 will go to 4.4GHz. You can get complete units with touch screen. Here would be the same, set the frequency at 3GHz, and measure level with your spectrum analyzer, making sure the level is correct for the second converter (use attenuators if necessary), then increase frequency to 1st IF (3.9xxGHz) and measure output of second converter with your SA. You could possibly also make a down converter with a mixer and a LO source.
So I think you need to invest in something that lets you either measure or source above 3GHz, if you don't know somebody that have equipment you could borrow.
I can't answer on your voltage measurements, hopefully someone else can help.
Regards, Askild
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 8:00 AM Dave Ireland < mirrors@...> wrote:
Askild
I have a sig gen and a specan that both
go to 3GHz.
The test point on the converter is
labelled LO test and I assume that this is the 600MHZ but I see
nothing on this even though the 600MHz input is correct. If
however it is the 3.9Ghz, then I have no way of seeing this
without mixing it to another frequency.
I can't see the output of the A8 Low
Band mixer as it is again too high for my specan but the RF input
is correct according to the manual at -21dBm and the drive
voltages are -4.96V for the -5V rail and -4.14V for the -4V rail.
The 310.75MHz output of the converter
when measured as per the manual is -59dBm where it should be
-38dBm.? When I measure the voltage between the test connector J19
pins 15 and 6, the drive to the converter pin switch, I get
+14.48V which is in the range of the manual.
The next item in the manual is
measuring the mixer bias on the test connector J19 pin 1 where I
get -39mV which is outside the required range of -150mV and
-800mV. After that it just says if outside the range, probably the
second converter is faulty.
The voltages to the second converter
are:-
J12-1 Mixer Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
??? -39mV
J12-2 +5VF:?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???
??? ??? 4.87V
J12-3 Analogue Gnd: ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Yes
J12-4 +10VR:?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ? 9.9V
J12-5 Pin Switch:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
??? 14.48V
J12-7 Drain Current Sense: ??? ???
4.86V
J12-8 Drain Voltage:??? ??? ??? ?? ??
?? 4.85V
J12-9 Doubler Bias:??? ??? ??? ??? ???
14.48V
J12-10 Driver Bias:??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??
0.465V
Without the circuit of the converter I
don't know the relevance of these but the only one that looks a
bit strange is the doubler bias.
Do you have any thoughts after your
experience?
I will pull it apart again and check
out some of yours and Gerald's suggestions on the DC feeds, the
feed throughs and where this LO test point comes from.
Thanks
Dave
On 8/02/2022 5:38 pm, Askild wrote:
Hi Dave,
I once fixed a 5086-7812? second converter with a 5021-8661
board.
The only problem on this, was cracked solder joints on the
feed through capacitors on the board. So I did not have to
open the cavity part of the converter.
HP had cut the legs after soldering, all the way down in
the solder joint. This is a bad thing as it adds stress to the
solder. I was sure HP would have known better.
I have pictures of it, but not at hand right now.
Do you have a second spectrum analyzer? You should check
the output of the test port on the converter.
And also the input level of the LO and IF.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about the fault. What is
the loss through the converter?
Guess this SA only go to 2.9GHz? so there is no high band?
What test equipment do you have to test and fault find
with.
Regards,
Askild
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 6:20 AM
Dave Ireland < mirrors@...>
wrote:
Sorry I rushed that last email.
For more relevance the second converter I am talking
about is a 5086-7957 and it is low on gain.
Dave
On 8/02/2022 1:10 pm, Dave Ireland wrote:
Has anyone had any joy repairing on
of these.
Dave
|
Re: Looking for HP3478A feet
Hello Nigel,
If you have not found a complete set of feet , I have some ( brown ) for sale.
I am located in France
Best regards
Eric
|
FM Tuner alignment generator?..
Does anyone know of a HP signal generator thats got a sweep section for
FM (87.5 - 108 MHz) tuner alignment?
The old Sound technology ST1000 was ideal for that but now long out of
production but seeing that in the UK at least the FM Broadcast band is
to be retrained till at least 2030 and we do have some FM Rebroadcast
receivers to look after, that would be a useful unit to have!
Thanks if anyone can recommend an HP one...
--
Tony Sayer
|
Re: HP432/HP435 spares, thermistor mount connector
Hello Eric,
Thank you for the information. The connectors are indeed very expensive. I didn¡¯t imagine such high prices. I will see if I can build one in my workshop. For my calibrator it might be good enough.
If you will find some knob caps, please let me know. I am located in Romania.
Thanks,?Gyorgy?
|
Re: HP432/HP435 spares, thermistor mount connector
Hello,
The connectors for the HP432 are microphone connectors from WPI (
Cooper ) , see :
And also page 17 of this catalogue:
The references are :
Cord plug:? 91-MC6M
Socket on 432 :? 91-MC6F1
They are available from ALLIED ( see example :
) but quite expensive ! and sometimes on Ebay
I have to check if I have spares caps for your HP435 knobs
Best regards
eric
Le 10/02/2022 16:02, Gyorgy Albert a
¨¦crit?:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello Group,
I started the restoration of my HP432A and HP35B power meters. One
of the HP435B is in a quite bad shape, the plastic caps on the
front panel knobs are missing, also the front plastic piece of the
power button (which holds the special lamp). Is there anyone who
can help me with these parts?? I marked them with red arrows in
the attached picture.
In the near future I would like to build my own calibrators for
both versions (thermistor mount version for the 432, and the
diode/thermocoulpe version for the 435/436.../4418/4419 series).
For the newer generation I was able to identify some Amphenol and
Lumberg connectors, which are compatible with those used by HPAK.
But for the older thermistor mount version, I have not found any
currently available connectors. There was an older thread in the
group, where some C91 or M91 Amphenol types ere mentioned, but I
have not found any similar. But some should exist, since Keysight
is still unsing them, also some of the Tegam power meters have
compatible connectors.
Can someone help me with some currently available connector types/
part numbers for the thermistor mounts?
Thanks in advance,
Gyorgy?
|
Re: My Agilent MSOX2024A hangs at boot. Will Keysight still repair it at no charge?
They did mine (UK) coupla years ago. I was astounded by the service (and I have bought Keysight equipment by preference ever since). I called them to ask why they hadn't picked it up yet and it turned out that they had already returned it fixed together with a new cal report. In fact I was never sure whether it was actually the same physical unit or just a stock replacement.
Alan
|
Re: 5088-7017 part equivalent for 10855A 2-1300MHz preamplifier?
To answer the first question, yes it is not available and there is no cross reference.?
|
I'm looking to complete a set of feet for a 3478A. I have three "grey" feet and a single bail-foot!!!
A complete set would be perfect but as a minimum I need a metal bail foot to make use of the two front feet I have operational; if necessary I can find a couple of stick-ons for the rear.
Apart from a USA shipment with prohibitive costs can anyone help out here (in UK)?
Nigel
|
HP432/HP435 spares, thermistor mount connector
Hello Group, I started the restoration of my HP432A and HP35B power meters. One of the HP435B is in a quite bad shape, the plastic caps on the front panel knobs are missing, also the front plastic piece of the power button (which holds the special lamp). Is there anyone who can help me with these parts?? I marked them with red arrows in the attached picture. In the near future I would like to build my own calibrators for both versions (thermistor mount version for the 432, and the diode/thermocoulpe version for the 435/436.../4418/4419 series). For the newer generation I was able to identify some Amphenol and Lumberg connectors, which are compatible with those used by HPAK. But for the older thermistor mount version, I have not found any currently available connectors. There was an older thread in the group, where some C91 or M91 Amphenol types ere mentioned, but I have not found any similar. But some should exist, since Keysight is still unsing them, also some of the Tegam power meters have compatible connectors. Can someone help me with some currently available connector types/ part numbers for the thermistor mounts? Thanks in advance, Gyorgy? 
|
Re: HP8594E : What is really needed when lost of cal data with dead battery?
Hi,
This sounds as something that should not be to difficult to automate with your favorite programming language.? As long as you have a signal generator and power meter on GPIB, together with the SA, and as long as the SA accept setting these cal constants over GPIB.
I'm using Python for the few GPIB programs I have made.
It will of course probably take you as long time to research the GPIB commands, write the program and test it. But it would very easy if you have to redo it at a later time. And if you share your program, it could save people a lot of time. Of course other may have different generators and power meters, so then they would have to update the program.
Regards, Askild
Hi Nicolas,
I can report from my calibration experience with an HP8593E. I assume there is no big difference in procedures to your HP8594E.
I purchased a used HP8593E to find that is was only calibrated to 18GHz. For the frequency range 18...27GHz there were no correction coefficients, so level readings were way off.
Calibration required a stable generator for the frequency range in question, a high quality splitter and an accurate power meter. You have to take a level measurement with the SA at every single correction grid frequency (there are many!) and write it down. You find those lists in the manual.
Then you have to enter all those numbers point by point into the instrument. I used the front panel keys to do that.
This may be automated via GPIB, but you still need to get the numbers into a computer.
It was very tedious and I refrained from re-calibrating the range below 18GHz. I do not ever want to do this again.
That's why in the same pass I replaced the CMOS memory battery. Now, I should be safe for another 10 years.
Best regards,
Tom
|
Jim Allyn - N7JA
George/Gyorgy Albert
