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Why inspecting a bargain is no bad idea...

 

I recently picked up an old 6038A Power supply. It worked but the fan was worn and had to be replaced.
(Sleeve bearings). The ambition was to also replace any RIFA capacitor found. While the fan was
easily replaced, replacing the capacitors would have been a major dismanteling process. I gave up.
The smoke will ventually be there...

But I found some other things that rised my eyebrows. The Power Mesh board had one of the two FET's
at the "fan end" partially unsoldered. Also one of the components was sticking up...

Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

Manufacturers generally provide an installation sheet for their products, but many wiring devices don't come with the sheet.? I use Hubbell a lot here in the US and have had excellent service from them.? I have seen a near disaster with a 40A range plug and socket that were melted and partly burnt but amazingly didn't catch fire even with 4" of insulation melted on one of the wires outside of the receptacle box in the wall.? That receptacle may well not have been a Hubbell, I could not read any markings on the toasted remains.? You don't get any closer to disaster than that one, but good materials selection kept it from burning.? It failed because the cord was a bit too short for the way the range was positioned and the plug worked its way out until it started arcing.
? As for torque, One of the common Hubbell PD2437 15A straight prong "standard" US plugs (lots of people call them cord caps) is spec'd at 12 inch-pounds of torque in the installation document.? NFPA requires they be torqued to spec.? I have found that many electricians and DIY types don't bother and tend to over-tighten them to the point of damaging the threads at times.? Be sure to consult the right data sheet for the connector type, they of course vary.? I recently saw some spring lock devices in Hubbells twist-lock? line that use a wedge type device to secure the conductors, and since there is no screw they don't need to be torqued and comply with NFPA rules.? Those would be a lot faster to install but I have always shied away from "stab backs".? There wasn't enough contact area to make me confident in the connection's long-term integrity.? Dirt and oxidation happen.? These new spring lock ones look to be different enough to investigate in the future.
? The standard 15A and 20A 120Vac home electrical circuits in the US are a bit disconcerting.? Not only do we not use fused plugs on our power cords, you can plug a 15A style plug into a 20A receptacle if it is the type with a T-shaped straight and twisted prong slot.. It would be very easy to grossly overload an 18AWG cord for example.
? The craziest thing I ever did was lay a nice metal cased Wiremold power strip on my welding table to run a fan.? I didn't give it a second thought.? While welding a large item at about 125Amps I accidentally knocked the magnetic ground clamp loose from the workbench.? The ground wire in the cord to the power strip instantly burned a spiral through the jacket of the 15' power cord on the power strip.? That's one I won't forget.
Clay Scott
Re: 204B problem in the 10k range

 

Hi Martin,
did you check the usual suspects (electrolytic capacitors) already? Also, if I understand correctly, the power supply is not original. Did you check its output voltage behavior when tuning through the frequency ranges? There might be an unintended interaction between the PS and the oscillator, causing this behavior.
Regards
Chris
Re: HP 6433 Power Supply

 

I got it finally.? Had a 100k resistor d'ho.? Swapped it out for a 10k and it lit the Led.

Funny thing real old school device you have to sort the darn thing to set the max current.

Glad it is only 36v
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

Make sure the wire hasn't overheated, first. If it has, the lug needs to be replaced, and the damaged end of the wire trimmed off.

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 10:08 PM paulswed <paulswedb@...> wrote:
Just tighten the screw a bit if its loose.
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

Just tighten the screw a bit if its loose.
Re: HP 6433 Power Supply

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Was it working before and only now started to exhibit a problem?

Have checked the current limit settings/controls?

Have you downloaded the manual?

Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity

On Jan 14, 2022, at 16:27, byterock@... wrote:

?Anyone have experience with one of these

I cant seem to get any amperage out of mine.

Get volts fine, but not enough amps to light an LED?
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

Rene¨¦, thank you for the input from someone who has ¡°been there.¡±


--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

a lot of times the spec is listed on the label of breaker, sometimes in the panel for the lugs like for mains entrance. I have used standard torque wrenchs w/ proper driver.
Here in the USA one more mfg of bad breakers Zinsco ( never trips) from the late 1940's thru at least the 1960s , I have several that I took to work put on the test rack 15A and 20A that tripped between 30 and 67A. !!!!? talk about unsafe and these were on 14 and 12Ga wire feeding the house....If they are not on the replace on sight list they should be....I was lucky to have testing capabilities.
I rewired my house using a pair of NEW 100A breakers ( back in 1992) for mains, they test 150A...btw they hold at 150A for 1 hour plus, trip at 155A and 160 in 50 sec. ( at least they trip!) I did go to a sub panel ( proper size both wire and panel for 150A) for distribution using Siemans? breakers all tested spot on.
I generally re-torque/check everything every 15yrs...they do get loose!
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð

On 1/14/22 3:38 PM, cheater cheater wrote:

I had no idea about checking the torque on terminals. How do you check
that? Just a VDE torque screwdriver?

Any clue what the torque specifications are in Europe or Germany on
breaker panels, wall outlets, and Schuko plug contacts?

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:26 PM Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:

Tightening connections: Especially in the case of aluminum wiring, which was popular for a few years, and no doubt still exists here and there.

Jeremy
N6WFO


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 6:33 AM paulswed <paulswedb@...> wrote:

Its good to understand outlet ratings along with circuits and breakers. Massively loaded test benches tend to suck lots of power.
I am careful with power loads and always have been.
But also discovered heavy house loads like air conditioning can heat breakers and connections over many years. Need to occasionally retighten the power leads going into breakers and such for very large equipment.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


--
Jeremy Nichols
6.

Re: HP active probe power connector availability?

 

Just to add a misc piece of info on these connectors.
Keysight parts search has a nice photo of the receptacle:

But as expected there's nothing identifiable on there. And despite at least one non-HP mfg using apparently the same type of connector:

I wasn't able to follow that lead, probably as others have tried before me.

I couldn't wait to order some of those Binder connectors, so I "made" some using a hacked up female DB9 (DE9) connector. Pin spacing isn't quite right for the receptacle and required a bit of drilling to allow the socket terminals to move closer. That, and some filing to "match" the flattened circle shape of the probe connector.
A lot of finagling; overall I wouldn't recommend it and would not do again. End result:
A 3d printer would've made things easier - just make a housing that takes those same DB* socket terminals.

If at least the active probe I built for this worked properly...
HP 6433 Power Supply

 

Anyone have experience with one of these

I cant seem to get any amperage out of mine.

Get volts fine, but not enough amps to light an LED?
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

I do not know if there are published torque specifications for electrical outlet terminals. One would think they would exist somewhere but I¡¯ve always used ¡°tight enough¡± as my guide.



On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:38 PM cheater cheater <cheater00social@...> wrote:
I had no idea about checking the torque on terminals. How do you check
that? Just a VDE torque screwdriver?

Any clue what the torque specifications are in Europe or Germany on
breaker panels, wall outlets, and Schuko plug contacts?

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:26 PM Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:
>
> Tightening connections: Especially in the case of aluminum wiring, which was popular for a few years, and no doubt still exists here and there.
>
> Jeremy
> N6WFO
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 6:33 AM paulswed <paulswedb@...> wrote:
>>
>> Its good to understand outlet ratings along with circuits and breakers. Massively loaded test benches tend to suck lots of power.
>> I am careful with power loads and always have been.
>> But also discovered heavy house loads like air conditioning can heat breakers and connections over many years. Need to occasionally retighten the power leads going into breakers and such for very large equipment.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>>
> --
> Jeremy Nichols
> 6.
>





--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

I had no idea about checking the torque on terminals. How do you check
that? Just a VDE torque screwdriver?

Any clue what the torque specifications are in Europe or Germany on
breaker panels, wall outlets, and Schuko plug contacts?

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 5:26 PM Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:

Tightening connections: Especially in the case of aluminum wiring, which was popular for a few years, and no doubt still exists here and there.

Jeremy
N6WFO


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 6:33 AM paulswed <paulswedb@...> wrote:

Its good to understand outlet ratings along with circuits and breakers. Massively loaded test benches tend to suck lots of power.
I am careful with power loads and always have been.
But also discovered heavy house loads like air conditioning can heat breakers and connections over many years. Need to occasionally retighten the power leads going into breakers and such for very large equipment.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: Placing Shelf on Casters for HP Equipment

 

Hello,

Posting my final setup in case anyone else comes across this thread with
similar questions to the ones I had. Hopefully this is useful to
someone.

As previously discussed, I wanted a 19-inch rack to hold my vintage HP
equipment, which comprises mostly large and heavy RF equipment. I had
several requirements:

1. the 19" racks should be on casters, so they can be wheeled around
2. each instrument should be able to be pulled out from the rack without
affecting equipment above or below
3. it should be possible to fasten the instrument to the front rack holes
with rack ears for added security and without having these rack ears
be necessary for vertical support
4. it should be possible for every rack unit to be occupied

Additionally, from the information I could find, the original HP racks
met many of these goals and provided a useful model for achieving them
(though I don't know if they came on casters). Specifically, the racks
contained interior mounting holes for support rails. These support the
instrument weight but do not use the front (or rear) mounting holes so
it is still possible to fasten the equipment to the front holes with
rack ears.

These navepoint 4-post racks
()
have casters, interior mounting holes, and sufficient weight capacity to
hold a rack full of heavy HP equipment.

These tripp-lite rails
()
can mount to the rack's interior mounting holes and are wide enough to
support the base of a full-width unit. However, they have several
deficiencies. First, they're way too bendy to support heavy equipment on
their own (they're apparently rated to 250lbs, which seems highly
optimistic). This is also made worse by the fact that instruments do not
extend the full width of the rails. If they made contact with the rails
closer to the corners, the rails should be much stronger and bend
less. The 2nd deficiency is that the equipment sits too low on the rack
to mount the rack ears to the front holes.

To fix both of these problems I ordered 1/8x2x19" metal flats from
metalsdepot. These span the rails and are fastened to them with VHB tape
(). See
also the attached image.


I used 6061-T6511 aluminum and 304 stainless steel for the flats. The
steel is significantly stiffer than the aluminum, but also more than
double the price, so I only use it when I feel I need the additional
support. For some really heavy pieces (e.g., HP 8566), I also placed
another set of rails inverted directly below the main set of rails (this
is also shown in the attached image). This makes the rails much stiffer,
even without the metal flats. The metal flats lift the equipment up to
just the right height so that they can also use the rack mount ears. The
VHB tape is strong enough that the metal flats don't move, but I can
still pull them off when needed. Everything fits perfectly, without any
additional careful adjusting needed. And, every rack unit can be filled.

FYI the tripp-lite rails are way overpriced, but I found them for about
1/3 the price on Ebay, so it's probably worth looking around for a
better deal. Otherwise, this solution, though it works nicely, is IMO
too expensive.

Matt

IMG_1376.JPG

Re: HP 8510 C with HP 8511B

 

I am not sure what you are asking.? As you know, the 8510 system uses a separate HPIB bus to control the interfaces on the bus including the test sets.
If you want to do the automatic forward and reverse testing as in an 8517, you will have to understand the HPIB commands that control the splitter/switch module.

You could do something such as using the 8510 to control a 11713 switch driver and treat the forward and reverse as separate test sets - just an idea.


On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 4:33 PM Gianni via <gianni.chiodo=[email protected]> wrote:
i have in line a system with HP8511B i intend to add dir coupler in order to perform return loss .
my goal is to become to a system like 8517 .
i have 2 Wiltron dir coupler , by now i have used 1 with a power splitter , to use the two i need the switch power splitter that is present in HP8517..
If i find this switch power splitter how to connect in in order to have the auto switch as 8517 ?
where i can find docs if the HW involved in this switch power splitter that is present inside the 8517.
Ciao IW1EPY
Gianni

Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

Should not a load of this size, in ¡°continuous¡± [?] use, be hard wired??



On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:33 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@...> wrote:
So as recent experience shows, 18 - 26 amps max continuous load for
months was a tad optimistic for this unknown brand Schuko wall socket,
which subsequently proceeded to smolder, melt, and deform, almost
causing a fire. I guess you don't think about wall socket power
ratings when your central heating goes out. I've smelled the telltale
smell of something smoldering for a few days, but I couldn't quite
localize it. I checked the cable, and it was warm, but there are a few
warm cables in my house and they're fine, so I assumed this was fine.
I had to dig down to the actual plug and socket (conveniently located
under a few cardboard boxes by the way) in order to find the
following.



One thing that'll "get you" is that this has been running like that
for months now, and only this week has it started making funny smells.
It's good to know about things that'll "get you" like that.
Expectation would be that if it works at first, it'll just keep
working, because how can a plug in a socket go from perfectly fine to
bad enough after months of being used in equal manner? Turns out this
expectation was not correct.

I had to use (VDE) pliers to get the contacts out, and they made a
nice crunchy sound on their way out. Of course I shut off the breaker
first. The contacts are nice and oxidized from the heat, all the way
to blue and brown.

BTW, Schuko are rated to 16A only. Go figure.

--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

Tightening connections: Especially in the case of aluminum wiring, which was popular for a few years, and no doubt still exists here and there.?

Jeremy?
N6WFO?


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 6:33 AM paulswed <paulswedb@...> wrote:
Its good to understand outlet ratings along with circuits and breakers. Massively loaded test benches tend to suck lots of power.
I am careful with power loads and always have been.
But also discovered heavy house loads like air conditioning can heat breakers and connections over many years. Need to occasionally retighten the power leads going into breakers and such for very large equipment.?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL?

--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 12:33 PM, cheater cheater wrote:
So as recent experience shows, 18 - 26 amps max continuous load for
months was a tad optimistic for this unknown brand Schuko wall socket,
which subsequently proceeded to smolder, melt, and deform, almost
causing a fire.?

BTW, Schuko are rated to 16A only. Go figure.
230/240 VAC countries exist, with approximately equal power ratings. Go figure.
Horses for courses -;)


Raymond
Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

I was walking by a 100A, three phase breaker box at work one day, and I could feel heat from about 18 inches away. It was at a cable TV headend, so we had to bring in a team of electricians to replace the wires and main breaker, starting at midnight. We were down most of the night which was bad enough, but people would have gone nuts if it was daytime with a six hour outage.


On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 9:50 AM Harold Foster <halfoster@...> wrote:
One thing that is not often thought about (or known) is the need to verify the breaker screws and main lugs are torqued to the correct specification. Copper and aluminum will both deform over time and you can wind up with a higher resistance connection with the resulting heat and/or fire.

And especially on newer construction, make sure that any aluminum connections had anti oxidation gel applied.

Hal

Re: OT: Mains Safety PSA

 

One thing that is not often thought about (or known) is the need to verify the breaker screws and main lugs are torqued to the correct specification. Copper and aluminum will both deform over time and you can wind up with a higher resistance connection with the resulting heat and/or fire.

And especially on newer construction, make sure that any aluminum connections had anti oxidation gel applied.

Hal
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