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Re: HP 141T CRT Question

 

On 1/8/22 11:30 AM, WB4IUY wrote:
I have a 141T mainframe that working, OK, but I noticed if I advance the intensity (brightness) adjustment close to max the intensity falls back off. It doesn't go out, it just gets dimmer. Any ideas on this before I dig into it?
This is "close to" a classic symptom of a CRT with low emission. I believe the classic symptom is for the visible brightness to decrease and then increase again as the intensity control is increased. Chuck can probably explain better here.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
HP 141T CRT Question

 

I have a 141T mainframe that working, OK, but I noticed if I advance the intensity (brightness) adjustment close to max the intensity falls back off. It doesn't go out, it just gets dimmer. Any ideas on this before I dig into it?

Thanks,
Dave
Re: Spaces before units (Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?)

 

On 1/8/22 10:51 AM, Toby wrote:
This thread looks like it has the potential to be endless. Mods?
If it starts becoming endless, I'll step in. At the moment it's relevant, as the discussion is in the context of creating a long-term archive of documentation.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Spaces before units (Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?)

 

This thread looks like it has the potential to be endless. Mods?
Re: Spaces before units (Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?)

 

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 11:17 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
, the basics of units and quantities for electrotechnical work have been written up by Rohde and Schwarz
Thank you ISO and R&S... but, they refer to dimensions as 'base quantities' implying to me... that if one can't put a number on 'it' then it doesn't exist.
For example, when one thinks of the dimension of length, does one think of a number? I don't.
I'd claim, furthermore, that to do so is limiting.
Of course, this is 'philosophy.'
But then, what are space counting norms: but a monitized philosophy.
Re: Spaces before units (Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?)

 

Carsten, Ai sahport yer prahpouzd speling ruulz baht sahgdzhest dhaht dhah shwaa saund git itz oun leter radher?dhan?dhah?daigraf?"ah." Meibi '@'?
Re: Spaces before units (Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?)

 

Ralph Waldo Emerson once wrote:"

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do.
He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall.

Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak
what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict
every thing you said to-day.

¡ª 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.'
¡ª Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood?

Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus,
and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton,
and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh.

To be great is to be misunderstood.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
adored by little statesmen and philosophers and devines.
With consistency a great soul has nothing to do.
He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall."

The convention of putting a space, or not putting a space, between a
number and a unit is about clarity.

It's your writing. If you find it more clear when you put in a space,
then do that. If you find it more clear when you don't put in a space,
then that is what you should do.

It's your writing, and the only payment you are ever going to get for
doing that writing is the pleasure of spending some of your precious
little time on this earth writing... Well, that and the pleasure of
being criticized because you didn't write it the way some reader wanted
to read it.

99% of the time, I choose to not put a space between the number and its
units, because I find the spacing of the fixed pitch typographic fonts
that I prefer, to be rather wide already. Adding a space divorces the
unit from the number. Further, automatic line wrapping algorithms take
no heed of your desire for the number and unit to be together, and often
will put those at the end of a line onto different lines.

Which, rather doesn't improve the clarity of your writing.

-Chuck Harris

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 08:17:10 +0100 "Carsten
Bormann" <cabocabo@...> wrote:
On 8. Jan 2022, at 05:40, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:

AS / ISO 1000:1998 is the standard for display of SI units. It
says there should be a single space between the numeral and the
unit-cum-multiplier.
Is that a current standard?
No.

See ¡ª the ISO/IEC 80000
series has replaced most earlier standards in this space (quantities
and units).

But the rule stands.

ISO 80000-1:2009 Section 7.1.4 has this to say:

7.1.4 Expressions for quantities

The symbol of the unit shall be placed after the numerical value
in the expression for a quantity, leaving a space between the
numerical value and the unit symbol. It should be noted that this
rule also applies to the units per cent, % and per mil, ¡ë. It
should also be noted that, in accordance with this rule, the
symbol ¡ãC for the degree Celsius shall be preceded by a space when
expressing a Celsius temperature.

The only exceptions to this rule are for the units degree, minute
and second for plane angle, in which case there shall be no space
between the numerical value and the unit symbol.

Can¡¯t provide a link, because
hides
most of the document until you pay for it. (Most of ISO/IEC 80000
actually is accessible there because it is in the definitions
sections, which are not behind the paywall. But not this rule.)

If you don¡¯t want to buy tons of ISO standards, the basics of units
and quantities for electrotechnical work have been written up by
Rohde and Schwarz (who used to be the distributor of HP equipment in
Germany a few decades ago, but mostly peddles their own instruments
right now). I found this document, of all places, in their career
section; apparently you are supposed to be able to read, write,
calculate, and clearly express your units if you want to work there:



If you don¡¯t trust URL shorteners, here is the full link:



Mandatory reading.
(The specific rule that there is a space between the number and the
unit is so ingrained that isn¡¯t even spelled out as such here, but is
consistently used in the examples.)

(I don¡¯t like all these rules, just like I don¡¯t always like English
spelling very much :-) But it is the standard¡­ So I don¡¯t meik ahp
mai oun ruulz.)

Gr¨¹?e, Carsten
Re: Spaces before units (Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?)

 

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 11:17 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
I don¡¯t like all these rules, just like I don¡¯t always like English spelling very much
George Orwell didn't like English spelling very much either. (I like it, as long as I have access to a spell check.)
As for standards that lay out how '...quantities and units...' ought to be formatted... I blame that on some people (editors?) whose only contribution to vetting a paper is to count the spaces between the 'quantity' and the 'units.'?
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 10:17 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
and also pics to upload, but not sure how
At the top of the page, "Media Manager" takes you here:


I suggest selecting the namespace for your instrument from the tree on the left (Counters in your case, I assume); then in the Upload tab after selecting your file(s), add a prefix in the textbox e.g.
5328a:test.jpg

IMO that helps keep the files tidy. See for example Signal_generators:8643A:*
To include those photos in the page you then use something like
{{popup>:signal_generators:8643a:8643a_inside.jpg?300}}
or in your case coutners:5328a:whatever.jpg
Re: Attenuator calibration hp 54503a

 

i used rg-58 with bnc connectors on each end.
hp cal issues

 

Hi all,a few weeks ago i did a full recap on the psu on this hp 54503a,in the manual it states set the 5v rail to 5.2v with a 2 ohm load on the rail,at the time i didnt have suitable power resistors at 2watt,so i didnt bother,just put the psu back in the scope and did a self cal,i noticed the volt readings were about 30% off measuring the cal output from another scope,cant remember if it was high or low!,some time later i decided to look at it agine when the resistors arrived,so into a 2 ohm load the rail measured about 5.9v,i adjusted it as per service manual to 5.2v,this resulted in the readings now about 50% off,so i did a recal with the rail set correctly and it reads fine now,would doing a self cal with the rail to high of caused this error,it works fine now but just wondered,i assume on a 5v square wave signal i measure from the halfway,ie centerline point and not top to bottom ie peak to peak?
Spaces before units (Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?)

 

On 8. Jan 2022, at 05:40, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:

AS / ISO 1000:1998 is the standard for display of SI units. It says there should be a single space between the numeral and the unit-cum-multiplier.
Is that a current standard?
No.

See ¡ª the ISO/IEC 80000 series has replaced most earlier standards in this space (quantities and units).

But the rule stands.

ISO 80000-1:2009 Section 7.1.4 has this to say:

7.1.4 Expressions for quantities

The symbol of the unit shall be placed after the numerical value in the expression for a quantity, leaving a space between the numerical value and the unit symbol. It should be noted that this rule also applies to the units per cent, % and per mil, ¡ë. It should also be noted that, in accordance with this rule, the symbol ¡ãC for the degree Celsius shall be preceded by a space when expressing a Celsius temperature.

The only exceptions to this rule are for the units degree, minute and second for plane angle, in which case there shall be no space between the numerical value and the unit symbol.

Can¡¯t provide a link, because hides most of the document until you pay for it.
(Most of ISO/IEC 80000 actually is accessible there because it is in the definitions sections, which are not behind the paywall. But not this rule.)

If you don¡¯t want to buy tons of ISO standards, the basics of units and quantities for electrotechnical work have been written up by Rohde and Schwarz (who used to be the distributor of HP equipment in Germany a few decades ago, but mostly peddles their own instruments right now).
I found this document, of all places, in their career section; apparently you are supposed to be able to read, write, calculate, and clearly express your units if you want to work there:



If you don¡¯t trust URL shorteners, here is the full link:



Mandatory reading.
(The specific rule that there is a space between the number and the unit is so ingrained that isn¡¯t even spelled out as such here, but is consistently used in the examples.)

(I don¡¯t like all these rules, just like I don¡¯t always like English spelling very much :-)
But it is the standard¡­ So I don¡¯t meik ahp mai oun ruulz.)

Gr¨¹?e, Carsten
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

Hello Dave,
That standard has been in existence for over 60 years. In fact, I started teaching it in 1968. There may be a later version, but I can't find it. That particular way of displaying scientific terms is also referenced in many texts on writing technical and commercial documents. Just look at any recent Style Manual for any language.
A clear advantage of the space is that it prevents messing up the meaning, particularly when the multipliers are lower case.
73 de Brian, VK2GCE

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2022 3:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

On 1/7/22 9:39 PM, Brian wrote:
AS / ISO 1000:1998 is the standard for display of SI units. It says there should be a single space between the numeral and the unit-cum-multiplier.
Is that a current standard?

Damn. It'll be a hard habit to break; I never use a space.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

Sorry if this was said here or elsewhere, but how does one upload images and/or PDFs to the wiki? I'm trying to build a page (HP5328A), and have original full manuals to scan (work in progress), and also pics to upload, but not sure how. It seems pretty involved from the code-like text on the page when in editing mode.?

Virus-free.


On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 9:09 PM Jim Ford <james.ford@...> wrote:
Hmmmm....? I have been putting in the space for many years now.? ?It just looks better to my eye.? Who knew it was a standard?? I'll occasionally leave out the space if things are tight and it's not a formal document.? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jim Ford



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 1/7/22 8:40 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

On 1/7/22 9:39 PM, Brian wrote:
> AS / ISO 1000:1998 is the standard for display of SI units. It says there should be a single space between the numeral and the unit-cum-multiplier.

?? Is that a current standard?

?? Damn.? It'll be a hard habit to break; I never use a space.

??????????? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hmmmm....? I have been putting in the space for many years now.? ?It just looks better to my eye.? Who knew it was a standard?? I'll occasionally leave out the space if things are tight and it's not a formal document.? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jim Ford



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


-------- Original message --------
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Date: 1/7/22 8:40 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

On 1/7/22 9:39 PM, Brian wrote:
> AS / ISO 1000:1998 is the standard for display of SI units. It says there should be a single space between the numeral and the unit-cum-multiplier.

?? Is that a current standard?

?? Damn.? It'll be a hard habit to break; I never use a space.

??????????? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

On 1/7/22 9:39 PM, Brian wrote:
AS / ISO 1000:1998 is the standard for display of SI units. It says there should be a single space between the numeral and the unit-cum-multiplier.
Is that a current standard?

Damn. It'll be a hard habit to break; I never use a space.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

AS / ISO 1000:1998 is the standard for display of SI units. It says there should be a single space between the numeral and the unit-cum-multiplier.
73 de Brian, VK2GCE

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2022 12:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

On 1/7/22 5:58 PM, Chris B wrote:
<snip>

Very nice work. My only suggestion after a quick skim is to try to
be more consistent about whether or not units are preceded by a space.
<snip>

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

On 1/7/22 5:58 PM, Chris B wrote:
> policing the uploads to make sure no Artek manuals show up
Shouldn't have any problem from people who read the guidelines but I expect some people may disregard that. Maybe add a reminder on the Upload page ?
I'd rather not modify that, as then it will go away when I update the software. There's already a mention of it on the Contribution Guidelines page.

Unrelated: why do MHz and GHz suffixes show up underlined with a tooltip ? I would imagine the target audience for such a wiki has a pretty good grasp of SI prefixes P )
That's a default behavior of DokuWiki. I've disabled it.

> Yeah, I have a 4195A too, I thought about it for a minute last summer
and decided against doing that page
Heh, I got one started with basic info:

Feel free to reorganize/improve - I took care of most of the boring specs (I hope), didn't get to the good stuff yet. Might come back to it in a few days.
Very nice work. My only suggestion after a quick skim is to try to be more consistent about whether or not units are preceded by a space. And, remember, that page needs to be referenced in the start page and in the model number index, when you feel it is ready.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP/Agilent/Keysight version of Tek Wiki?

 

> policing the uploads to make sure no Artek manuals show up

Shouldn't have any problem from people who read the guidelines but I expect some people may disregard that. Maybe add a reminder on the Upload page ?

Unrelated: why do MHz and GHz suffixes show up underlined with a tooltip ? I would imagine the target audience for such a wiki has a pretty good grasp of SI prefixes P )

> Yeah, I have a 4195A too, I thought about it for a minute last summer and decided against doing that page

Heh, I got one started with basic info:
https://hpwiki.mcguirescientificservices.com/4195a_network_spectrum_analyzer

Feel free to reorganize/improve - I took care of most of the boring specs (I hope), didn't get to the good stuff yet. Might come back to it in a few days.
Re: HP 89410A / 89441A internal 3 1/2 floppy replacement

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi,

?

I own an 89441A, and I too am one of the people interested in your floppy disk replacement project.

?

I have already experimented with a GOTEK on an old PC running MS-DOS6.21, Win98SE and XP and it works very well, in fact I have not encountered any problems.

?

Yves

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de Peter Brown
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 7 janvier 2022 05:45
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 89410A / 89441A internal 3 1/2 floppy replacement

?

Hi Mike,

Great news, I for one would be interested in details of your solution.

Peter

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