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Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Two more tests to ty on your 8341:

1)PRESET;SHIFT;MANUAL
2)PRESET;SHIFT;EXT

MANUAL and EXT are in the trigger section of the front panel - anything that is blinking indicates a problem.

Question - have you downloaded the user and service manuals for th 8341 that match your unit - they are delightful bed time reading.
Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:

PD: forgot to mention the data on the table were obtained at 5 GHz, inside the 'best behavior band' 2.3 to 7 gig. Maybe I need to test at other frequencies, but the starting power level is lower and my sensor only reach -30 dBm.
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

OK, the results look low but reasonable. The modulator (rf output controller) seems to be working properly. The output seems a bit low - I would expect 15-20dBm (at least that is what I get on a typical 8340a/b)

Could be the unleveled power adjustments would fix that. Try the peak function at 5 GHz and see if that increases the power output.

What is the unleveled power output on the other bands? [PRESET,CW=low/midband frequency),SHIFT METER. Do this on each of the bands - highest power would be expected near the low end of the band. Doing a PEAK before the SHIFT METER might increase the power output.

It would be best to see what can be done to ge the unleveled power up before trying much else. You may have to do the SRD ias and YTF tracking adjustments to do this and that will require at least a good detector, a reasonable scope, a voltmeter capable of 5 digits, and desirably a working spectrum analyzer 8566 is a good choice, there are others.

Your power meter and sensor should be OK if they are reasonably within calibration. (Use the CAL function on the 436)

Cheers!

Bruce



Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:

Hi again!

This table is what I have obtained by doing the measurements as you told me, from upper limit of 9.3 dBm to bottom limit of my 8481A power sensor. I used a 3 dB attenuator along the power sensor just in case.?I am thinking that if the problem is the upper limit of power in all bands, maybe it's a power failure, Idk.?Or perhaps the full 40 dBm scale that the generator is capable of handling without the step attenuator is shifted 10 dBm down.

Regards,
R.
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

PD: forgot to mention the data on the table were obtained at 5 GHz, inside the 'best behavior band' 2.3 to 7 gig. Maybe I need to test at other frequencies, but the starting power level is lower and my sensor only reach -30 dBm.
FS: HP 410B Probe assembly

 

I have a HP 410B Probe assembly for sale. It is complete (including the AC probe) The DC probe handles can use some TLC.

Best offer takes.

Please PM me.
Re: OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

 

开云体育

Great stuff!? Thank you.

?

David

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of w9dkc
Sent: 13 November 2021 17:16
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

?

Here you go:
Re: OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

w9dkc
 

Here you go:
Re: HP 3582A processor board 03582-66507 processor board wanted

 

Have you done any of the steps in section 8-4 towards troubleshooting the processor section? The first steps listed are to verify the voltages on the board. We know the voltages going into the board are good by substitution, but the processor board has its own -5V regulator or could have a bad connection on one of the other rails.

Dave Casey


On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 9:18 AM mill_glen_chevy via <brstpr=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm game.? Lets give it a try.??

I bought this one in fair condition with likely a million miles on it from a dam that was probably using it to sound the structure for integrity.? The fan and screen were plugged with some form of sand that set up like concrete, with some of that in the instrument.? I disassembled it and cleaned all that out.? At this point it would start up but not sweep, but would lock up after a second or two.?

I went through the power supply next, at the suggestion of this group.? Some of the electrolytics tested poorly, so I changed them on all the boards.? This seemed to get the power supply in shape, but the problem only got worse.? It refused to start at that point.? So, being of short attention span, I buttoned it up and put it back on the healing shelf with all of the other work in process instruments here.??

Next, I purchased another one that worked but was a little beat up.? This gave me the opportunity to do what I do best, swap boards until I narrow down where the problem is.? I swapped the power supply one board at at time and the good one still worked, so I decided the power supply was OK.? I started then on the control boards, finding that the processor board made the good instrument fail and swapping the good board into the bad instrument got that working.? I didn't go any further, assembling the best of the two and putting the other back on the healing shelf until I found a new processor board.??

I have enough parts here to get this one looking good with a new face plate and hopefully working as well.??

Re: HP 3582A processor board 03582-66507 processor board wanted

 

I'm game.? Lets give it a try.??

I bought this one in fair condition with likely a million miles on it from a dam that was probably using it to sound the structure for integrity.? The fan and screen were plugged with some form of sand that set up like concrete, with some of that in the instrument.? I disassembled it and cleaned all that out.? At this point it would start up but not sweep, but would lock up after a second or two.?

I went through the power supply next, at the suggestion of this group.? Some of the electrolytics tested poorly, so I changed them on all the boards.? This seemed to get the power supply in shape, but the problem only got worse.? It refused to start at that point.? So, being of short attention span, I buttoned it up and put it back on the healing shelf with all of the other work in process instruments here.??

Next, I purchased another one that worked but was a little beat up.? This gave me the opportunity to do what I do best, swap boards until I narrow down where the problem is.? I swapped the power supply one board at at time and the good one still worked, so I decided the power supply was OK.? I started then on the control boards, finding that the processor board made the good instrument fail and swapping the good board into the bad instrument got that working.? I didn't go any further, assembling the best of the two and putting the other back on the healing shelf until I found a new processor board.??

I have enough parts here to get this one looking good with a new face plate and hopefully working as well.??
Re: OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

 

开云体育

Because you can’t get at the end that’s embedded in the touch screen.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of w9dkc
Sent: 13 November 2021 15:08
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

?

Why not just use a longer FFC cable?
Such as:
Re: OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

w9dkc
 

Why not just use a longer FFC cable?
Such as:
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Hi again!

This table is what I have obtained by doing the measurements as you told me, from upper limit of 9.3 dBm to bottom limit of my 8481A power sensor. I used a 3 dB attenuator along the power sensor just in case.?I am thinking that if the problem is the upper limit of power in all bands, maybe it's a power failure, Idk.?Or perhaps the full 40 dBm scale that the generator is capable of handling without the step attenuator is shifted 10 dBm down.

Regards,
R.

WhatsApp Image 2021-11-13 at 12.45.50.jpeg

Re: Keysight DVM 34465A Temperature/TC?

 

1/ Type K TC are Chromel-Alumel other popular type is Iron-Constantan but those can rust.

We use type K.

Good ref:

2/ For Calibration check, ice water and boiling water were suggested, any tips appreciated1

3/ We have some Keithley an Fluke K TC and KS also sells them, ready made with the yellow type K plug. There is an adapter from KS from TC socket to 4 mm plugs.

4/ Will return to the lab soon and make further tests.

Bon Journee,


Jon
HP Keysight 8590 E series calibration manual

 

I plan to "repurpose" the folder for an HP 8590 E-series calibration manual.? I'll sell it dirt or trade it for something "interesting" - ships loose leaf via media mail

Contact me off line if interested
Re: Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure

 

开云体育

That’s correct this is a como failure on that analyzers.
Try to perform adjustments tasks on synthesizers ( samplers … and so) if it don’t fix the problem you will need a new oscillator .?

Ing. Patricio A. Greco
Taller Aeronáutico de Reparación 1B-349
Organización de Mantenimiento Aeronáutico de la Defensa OMAD-001
Gral. Martín Rodríguez 2159
San Miguel (1663)
Buenos Aires
T:?+5411-4455-2557
F:?+5411-4032-0072

On 12 Nov 2021, at 19:39, Nick Foster <bistromath@...> wrote:

?
Hi all,

Hi all,

I'm working on the old 8593E I picked up off eBay a few years back. It had the problem when I got it -- I figure the seller probably knew and didn't mention it, but caveat emptor and all that.

The problem manifests as extreme, sporadic phase noise. Like this:
image.png

That's a relatively tame example, and occasionally it will wipe out the whole trace. It's all FM noise.

I spent a while digging around the analog interface board and it seems to be OK. One thing I noticed is that the FM coil drive diagnostic screen (measuring FM+) shows a flat line. That said, the analyzer sweeps just fine below 10MHz spans where the FM coil is active (albeit with noise), and a scope does show some low voltage on that (current-driven) coil line, so I think it's probably OK (given the FM coil R is 1.25 ohms with <150mA, how did the FM coil diag measurement ever hope to show it on the trace?). The noise didn't change when I disconnected the A25 counter/lock assembly.

I disconnected the FM coil drive and ran the YTO's output after the isolator into another spec an, and it shows the YTO exhibiting exactly the same noise. I don't have a current source on hand which is quiet enough to drive the main coil and really rule out the main coil driver on the analog board. The YTO seems to sweep OK across its range with good power (~+12dBm after the isolator and directional coupler).

Before I get too deep in the rabbit hole building a quiet current source, is this behavior a known symptom of YTO failure on the 859xE? What are the odds this could be noise in the main coil driver or +15/-15/+5 power supplies to the YTO? They seem clean to my scope, but it's very difficult to get good mV/uV-level noise measurements. If it is the YTO, does it seem likely to be the dreaded wirebonded transistor, or the circuitry on the control board?

Nick
Re: OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

 

You could make your own fairly easily, I think. Start with an FFC cable the correct pitch and lead count like: Molex 0151670721 Digikey part number WM13128-ND
and a connector like: JST 04FMN-SMT-A-TF(LF)(SN)? Digikey part number 455-1919-1-ND

Solder the connector to one end and it should be a usable extension cable.
BobH
Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure

 

Hi all,

Hi all,

I'm working on the old 8593E I picked up off eBay a few years back. It had the problem when I got it -- I figure the seller probably knew and didn't mention it, but caveat emptor and all that.

The problem manifests as extreme, sporadic phase noise. Like this:
image.png

That's a relatively tame example, and occasionally it will wipe out the whole trace. It's all FM noise.

I spent a while digging around the analog interface board and it seems to be OK. One thing I noticed is that the FM coil drive diagnostic screen (measuring FM+) shows a flat line. That said, the analyzer sweeps just fine below 10MHz spans where the FM coil is active (albeit with noise), and a scope does show some low voltage on that (current-driven) coil line, so I think it's probably OK (given the FM coil R is 1.25 ohms with <150mA, how did the FM coil diag measurement ever hope to show it on the trace?). The noise didn't change when I disconnected the A25 counter/lock assembly.

I disconnected the FM coil drive and ran the YTO's output after the isolator into another spec an, and it shows the YTO exhibiting exactly the same noise. I don't have a current source on hand which is quiet enough to drive the main coil and really rule out the main coil driver on the analog board. The YTO seems to sweep OK across its range with good power (~+12dBm after the isolator and directional coupler).

Before I get too deep in the rabbit hole building a quiet current source, is this behavior a known symptom of YTO failure on the 859xE? What are the odds this could be noise in the main coil driver or +15/-15/+5 power supplies to the YTO? They seem clean to my scope, but it's very difficult to get good mV/uV-level noise measurements. If it is the YTO, does it seem likely to be the dreaded wirebonded transistor, or the circuitry on the control board?

Nick
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Having troubleinterpertating the results.

Lets try a single test for the modulator (main ALC power regulating component)

Picxk a frequency above 2 GHz and hook either the scope, detector or power meter (power meter prefered if it can handle 20+ dBm) - maybe use an anttnuator).
do PRESET,CW=frequency above 2 GHz, SHIFT,METER - RPG slowly CCW. Now record the POWER METER (bottom window), The attenuation setting (Top window) and the power meter (HP436) readings as a table.

This will determin in the power control components of the ALC are working.

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:

Hi Bruce!

I checked the ripple of the eight regulated rails and everyone stays between 10 to 15 mV, I think that is ok.

- On the scope-crystal setup:
My scope is digital and x-y mode is crap. So I set two multimeters and the scope in normal mode. The first test you mentioned I think is failed and the ALC I think is ok. You can judge by yourself seeing a couple of videos I recorded, one of a single 60 second sweep from 2 to 20 gig with lvl pre-METER mode set to 2 dBm (note crystal measurement doing crazy jumps from 1.x volts to almost zero), and the other video I have to turn several times the knob and then it has a smooth ride from zero to arround minus seventy milivolt.

Videos
( )
I am a bit confused after that...

Kind regards,
R.
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Bonus check:

I'm trying to do the external leveling using my crystal detector for the loop and 8481A for sensing the actual power. I tried 500 MHz, 1 GHz and 2 GHz (the max of my resistive power divider for now). You can see how power display and power meter more or less agrees (with 6 dB difference because of power divider), so once again, the internal detectors of the 8341A are ok. But the UNLEVELED light still on at aparently random levels. The lower the frequency, the lower the level at which the indicator lights.
I tried to enter higher frequencies, but the power loss could be significant due to the limitation of the divider and wrong measures at this point are totally useless, maybe it's time to get 18 GHz one.
However, the band where the signal is least attenuated is still the 1 (2.3 to 7 GHz), losing control of it at about +5 dBm. As a conclusion, no matter what source you use for leveling, the behavior seems to be the same.

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WhatsApp Image 2021-11-12 at 17.59.59.jpeg
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Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Hi Bruce!

I checked the ripple of the eight regulated rails and everyone stays between 10 to 15 mV, I think that is ok.

- On the scope-crystal setup:
My scope is digital and x-y mode is crap. So I set two multimeters and the scope in normal mode. The first test you mentioned I think is failed and the ALC I think is ok. You can judge by yourself seeing a couple of videos I recorded, one of a single 60 second sweep from 2 to 20 gig with lvl pre-METER mode set to 2 dBm (note crystal measurement doing crazy jumps from 1.x volts to almost zero), and the other video I have to turn several times the knob and then it has a smooth ride from zero to arround minus seventy milivolt.


I am a bit confused after that...?

Kind regards,
R.
Re: HP 5245L Electronic Counter Prefix 724-

 

Yes indeed thats the M model oven and they are very good. Its the same oven used in the Cesium 5061a/b. Though the internal EFC is a bit different.
I have one in a 5248M. Better frontend from what I see. Maybe a drop newer design. But still works.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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