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Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Hi again!

This table is what I have obtained by doing the measurements as you told me, from upper limit of 9.3 dBm to bottom limit of my 8481A power sensor. I used a 3 dB attenuator along the power sensor just in case.?I am thinking that if the problem is the upper limit of power in all bands, maybe it's a power failure, Idk.?Or perhaps the full 40 dBm scale that the generator is capable of handling without the step attenuator is shifted 10 dBm down.

Regards,
R.

WhatsApp Image 2021-11-13 at 12.45.50.jpeg

Re: Keysight DVM 34465A Temperature/TC?

 

1/ Type K TC are Chromel-Alumel other popular type is Iron-Constantan but those can rust.

We use type K.

Good ref:

2/ For Calibration check, ice water and boiling water were suggested, any tips appreciated1

3/ We have some Keithley an Fluke K TC and KS also sells them, ready made with the yellow type K plug. There is an adapter from KS from TC socket to 4 mm plugs.

4/ Will return to the lab soon and make further tests.

Bon Journee,


Jon
HP Keysight 8590 E series calibration manual

 

I plan to "repurpose" the folder for an HP 8590 E-series calibration manual.? I'll sell it dirt or trade it for something "interesting" - ships loose leaf via media mail

Contact me off line if interested
Re: Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure

 

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That¡¯s correct this is a como failure on that analyzers.
Try to perform adjustments tasks on synthesizers ( samplers ¡­ and so) if it don¡¯t fix the problem you will need a new oscillator .?

Ing. Patricio A. Greco
Taller Aeron¨¢utico de Reparaci¨®n 1B-349
Organizaci¨®n de Mantenimiento Aeron¨¢utico de la Defensa OMAD-001
Gral. Mart¨ªn Rodr¨ªguez 2159
San Miguel (1663)
Buenos Aires
T:?+5411-4455-2557
F:?+5411-4032-0072

On 12 Nov 2021, at 19:39, Nick Foster <bistromath@...> wrote:

?
Hi all,

Hi all,

I'm working on the old 8593E I picked up off eBay a few years back. It had the problem when I got it -- I figure the seller probably knew and didn't mention it, but caveat emptor and all that.

The problem manifests as extreme, sporadic phase noise. Like this:
image.png

That's a relatively tame example, and occasionally it will wipe out the whole trace. It's all FM noise.

I spent a while digging around the analog interface board and it seems to be OK. One thing I noticed is that the FM coil drive diagnostic screen (measuring FM+) shows a flat line. That said, the analyzer sweeps just fine below 10MHz spans where the FM coil is active (albeit with noise), and a scope does show some low voltage on that (current-driven) coil line, so I think it's probably OK (given the FM coil R is 1.25 ohms with <150mA, how did the FM coil diag measurement ever hope to show it on the trace?). The noise didn't change when I disconnected the A25 counter/lock assembly.

I disconnected the FM coil drive and ran the YTO's output after the isolator into another spec an, and it shows the YTO exhibiting exactly the same noise. I don't have a current source on hand which is quiet enough to drive the main coil and really rule out the main coil driver on the analog board. The YTO seems to sweep OK across its range with good power (~+12dBm after the isolator and directional coupler).

Before I get too deep in the rabbit hole building a quiet current source, is this behavior a known symptom of YTO failure on the 859xE? What are the odds this could be noise in the main coil driver or +15/-15/+5 power supplies to the YTO? They seem clean to my scope, but it's very difficult to get good mV/uV-level noise measurements. If it is the YTO, does it seem likely to be the dreaded wirebonded transistor, or the circuitry on the control board?

Nick
Re: OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

 

You could make your own fairly easily, I think. Start with an FFC cable the correct pitch and lead count like: Molex 0151670721 Digikey part number WM13128-ND
and a connector like: JST 04FMN-SMT-A-TF(LF)(SN)? Digikey part number 455-1919-1-ND

Solder the connector to one end and it should be a usable extension cable.
BobH
Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure

 

Hi all,

Hi all,

I'm working on the old 8593E I picked up off eBay a few years back. It had the problem when I got it -- I figure the seller probably knew and didn't mention it, but caveat emptor and all that.

The problem manifests as extreme, sporadic phase noise. Like this:
image.png

That's a relatively tame example, and occasionally it will wipe out the whole trace. It's all FM noise.

I spent a while digging around the analog interface board and it seems to be OK. One thing I noticed is that the FM coil drive diagnostic screen (measuring FM+) shows a flat line. That said, the analyzer sweeps just fine below 10MHz spans where the FM coil is active (albeit with noise), and a scope does show some low voltage on that (current-driven) coil line, so I think it's probably OK (given the FM coil R is 1.25 ohms with <150mA, how did the FM coil diag measurement ever hope to show it on the trace?). The noise didn't change when I disconnected the A25 counter/lock assembly.

I disconnected the FM coil drive and ran the YTO's output after the isolator into another spec an, and it shows the YTO exhibiting exactly the same noise. I don't have a current source on hand which is quiet enough to drive the main coil and really rule out the main coil driver on the analog board. The YTO seems to sweep OK across its range with good power (~+12dBm after the isolator and directional coupler).

Before I get too deep in the rabbit hole building a quiet current source, is this behavior a known symptom of YTO failure on the 859xE? What are the odds this could be noise in the main coil driver or +15/-15/+5 power supplies to the YTO? They seem clean to my scope, but it's very difficult to get good mV/uV-level noise measurements. If it is the YTO, does it seem likely to be the dreaded wirebonded transistor, or the circuitry on the control board?

Nick
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Having troubleinterpertating the results.

Lets try a single test for the modulator (main ALC power regulating component)

Picxk a frequency above 2 GHz and hook either the scope, detector or power meter (power meter prefered if it can handle 20+ dBm) - maybe use an anttnuator).
do PRESET,CW=frequency above 2 GHz, SHIFT,METER - RPG slowly CCW. Now record the POWER METER (bottom window), The attenuation setting (Top window) and the power meter (HP436) readings as a table.

This will determin in the power control components of the ALC are working.

Cheers!

Bruce

Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:

Hi Bruce!

I checked the ripple of the eight regulated rails and everyone stays between 10 to 15 mV, I think that is ok.

- On the scope-crystal setup:
My scope is digital and x-y mode is crap. So I set two multimeters and the scope in normal mode. The first test you mentioned I think is failed and the ALC I think is ok. You can judge by yourself seeing a couple of videos I recorded, one of a single 60 second sweep from 2 to 20 gig with lvl pre-METER mode set to 2 dBm (note crystal measurement doing crazy jumps from 1.x volts to almost zero), and the other video I have to turn several times the knob and then it has a smooth ride from zero to arround minus seventy milivolt.

Videos
( )
I am a bit confused after that...

Kind regards,
R.
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Bonus check:

I'm trying to do the external leveling using my crystal detector for the loop and 8481A for sensing the actual power. I tried 500 MHz, 1 GHz and 2 GHz (the max of my resistive power divider for now). You can see how power display and power meter more or less agrees (with 6 dB difference because of power divider), so once again, the internal detectors of the 8341A are ok. But the UNLEVELED light still on at aparently random levels. The lower the frequency, the lower the level at which the indicator lights.
I tried to enter higher frequencies, but the power loss could be significant due to the limitation of the divider and wrong measures at this point are totally useless, maybe it's time to get 18 GHz one.
However, the band where the signal is least attenuated is still the 1 (2.3 to 7 GHz), losing control of it at about +5 dBm. As a conclusion, no matter what source you use for leveling, the behavior seems to be the same.

WhatsApp Image 2021-11-12 at 17.59.59 _1_.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-11-12 at 17.59.59 _2_.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-11-12 at 17.59.59.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-11-12 at 18.00.00 _1_.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-11-12 at 18.00.00 _2_.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-11-12 at 18.00.00.jpeg

Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*

 

Hi Bruce!

I checked the ripple of the eight regulated rails and everyone stays between 10 to 15 mV, I think that is ok.

- On the scope-crystal setup:
My scope is digital and x-y mode is crap. So I set two multimeters and the scope in normal mode. The first test you mentioned I think is failed and the ALC I think is ok. You can judge by yourself seeing a couple of videos I recorded, one of a single 60 second sweep from 2 to 20 gig with lvl pre-METER mode set to 2 dBm (note crystal measurement doing crazy jumps from 1.x volts to almost zero), and the other video I have to turn several times the knob and then it has a smooth ride from zero to arround minus seventy milivolt.


I am a bit confused after that...?

Kind regards,
R.
Re: HP 5245L Electronic Counter Prefix 724-

 

Yes indeed thats the M model oven and they are very good. Its the same oven used in the Cesium 5061a/b. Though the internal EFC is a bit different.
I have one in a 5248M. Better frontend from what I see. Maybe a drop newer design. But still works.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Re: HP 5245L Electronic Counter Prefix 724-

 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 01:37 PM, Marco Marchesi wrote:
No schematics available on the web
Not free, that is.
Artek Manuals sells good scans for just over USD 10,-.

Raymond
Re: HP 5245L Electronic Counter Prefix 724-

 

Your insight was spot on!
I wonder how can I have been so absent-minded!
It is exactly HP 5245M!

No schematics available on the web
Re: Keysight DVM 34465A Temperature/TC?

 

Bonjour seul,
yes the 34465A has a built in Thermo Couple function for J, K, E, T, N, R types.
It also got an internal reference junction, afaik.
Please read the manual for details.
Frank
Re: Buying a used VNA

 

Here both the vintage PNA and the low cost VNA are used to look at the same home made Beatty standard.?

70mm_50k_4p4G_V2P4_2p08_101pts_A_cal.PNG
70mm_PNA_401pts.PNG

Re: Buying a used VNA

 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 05:16 PM, Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd wrote:
There is a circuit, which I think was published in QEX, that drops the frequency of a VNA by mixing the input with the 10 MHz reference output. So 0-300 kHz would be seen at 10 to 10.3 MHz.
?
The software supports using external mixers for both up and down conversion.? There no free ride of course.?? My interest in the lower frequency (20kHz and up) is for PDN measurements.? I would like to have a continuous sweep with a fairly wide dynamic range (PDNs can have a fairly low impedance).?? What I have been doing to get around it is using a second vintage analyzer and stitching the Touchstone files together.?? For example:

"Some time ago I had come across an paper written by Jeroen Belleman where he was studying the parasitic shunt capacitance of some 1206 resistors. "
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/shunt-capacitance-of-1206-smd-resistors-jeroen-belleman-december-2010/msg3606722/#msg3606722

It's not ideal but I knew that before I bought the PNA.? Copper Mountain Tech offers a product that would have been perfect for my hobby use, except for the price tag. ?

I made a video where I attempt to demonstrate making a few PDN measurements with a $50 VNA.? The software is is very similar to what I use with the PNA (basically running it headless).
Re: HP 5245L Electronic Counter Prefix 724-

 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 12:06 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
Maybe irrelevant - but wouldn't that OCXO belong in a 5245M, not a 5245L?
My 5245M manual applies to 716- and up...

Raymond
Re: HP 5245L Electronic Counter Prefix 724-

 

Maybe irrelevant - but wouldn't that OCXO belong in a 5245M, not a 5245L?

Raymond
OT: Extender for flat (flex PCB) 4 wire ribbon cable

 

I've got a replacement touch screen that has a four wire (1mm pitch) flat
flex PCB ribbon cable that is too short (3" or 70cm long) that I need to
extend to about 10" (say 25cm).

I think what I need is a four wire version of this:
<> in 1mm pitch ...

But so far I've not found one

D.
Keysight DVM 34465A Temperature/TC?

 

Bonjour a tous: We use thermocouples to check power dissipation in SMPS, and to calibrate SMD solder pots with RoHS solder like SAC100.
We have many type K TC from Fluke, Kiethley and hommade spot weleded.

For my Keysight 34465A DVM, I wonder about a TC function?

I also have an ancient Yokogawa DCV/DCI calibrator (2601?) with the cold junct type K TC adapter.
But no idea the procedure to use it!

Many thanks again

Jon
Re: Buying a used VNA

 

On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 16:57, Joe Smith via <joeqsmith49=[email protected]> wrote:
The only real downside to the instrument has been the 300KHz lower limit. 10KHz would have been far more useful for me but I knew that going into it.??
There is a circuit, which I think was published in QEX, that drops the frequency of a VNA by mixing the input with the 10 MHz reference output. So 0-300 kHz would be seen at 10 to 10.3 MHz.

Dave

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