Has anyone used GPIB to capture screens on this unit? If so, get me started in the right direction.

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Hello friends,

I'm repairing my hp 3585A, which shows "LOCAL OSC. UNLOCKED" on the screen all the time and a flat horizontal plot at the bottom of the graticule. I'm following the service manual and its troubleshooting trees and signatures, and I found a first fault (missing +5V) in the A34 board, which I repaired by replacing a 2N3055.

Now the voltage is OK and the A34 circuits receive all the voltages within the requested tolerances, but the 4 LEDs don't behave the way that they are supposed to, at least according to the "section 11, service group B" (recalled by the service manual if this message appears):

• the REF LED should be OFF and it is true for the first minutes of operation, then it lights a stay ON;
• the FRN LED blinks slowly (ON for about 5 s and OFF for 0,5 s) and every time it lights the sounder makes a beep.

I checked the A34 board almost entirely, measured frequencies, voltages and waveforms at the requested SMB, TPs and pins; I also replaced an IC (U8) that the signature analysis told me to be "possibly" defective. But it wasn't.

I'm unsure about the correct operation of the trigger, because its troubleshooting tree expects to see "pulses" at TP2, but I see only long changes of state whenever I put the Ext. Trigger input to ground, and even in the Line Trigger mode (high for 15 s, low for 2 s).

If anybody of you had experience in repairing this beautiful instrument, I as him some help, mostly for interpreting correctly the service manual and the signals that the hp 3585A gives with the timing of its LEDs. I usually restore, repair and align my radios and electronic instruments, but in this case I feel that I may misunderstand.

Tnx in advance,
Alberto, IZ2EWV

I received this email that I thought might interest other RF junkies:

Demo: PNA-X Spurious Test

Dr. Joel Dunsmore will walk through a 20-minute demo showing optimized spurious testing with the enhanced PNA/PNA-X new DDS source.

In this webinar series Dr. Dunsmore will demonstrate:
??? Close-in carrier spurious
??? Higher-order mixing products
??? Spurious vs. LO drive level
Join this Keysight webinar to learn how to optimize spurious tests on the PNA/PNA-X.


Date: June 16, 2021


https://connectlp.keysight.com/SpuriousTest-Americas?elq_cid=1130946&cmpid=ELQ-14600&elqCampaignId=14600&elqTrackId=2FE217D7C4FF72BD38DC574DD1E4E6B9&elq=ba1aa6467a24496da8e3fb5eff8200a8&elqaid=30097&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=14600

Great replies, thanks

Hi Wally,

There is a resistor inside the probe's compensation box that informs the scope of the probe's multiplication factor.? Check the resistance from the 1160A's AutoProbe pin to ground and compare it to your N2843A.? Maybe the resistor has gone bad.

-mark

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 06:50 AM, <maxim.vlasov@...> wrote:

Hello,

Just a few notes about the 4145a format. There is no magic about it and it's a standard MFM (not GCR format fortunately).
Since 4145a as well as 4145b both use Fujitsu controller MB8866, which is a +5V only version of the famous 1793 (FD1793, FDC1793, SAB1793,...) integrated in many many home and office computers in the 80s.
In other words, even on Sinclair ZX-Spectrum (TRS80, Atari ST, MSX etc) a motivated coder can write a disk copy utility to duplicate 4145a floppy disk w/o any problem. It's not like Amiga floppy, which is impossible to copy on any PC FDC, not even by reading the whole track at once. So, it seems akward, but there is a better chance to use an old computer (eating dust in the attic) then the modern one.

"So a PC with a TEAC FD55A or B and one of the universal copy programs (dos or linux) should work."
Not every integrated PC FDC is 256 bytes/sector compatible (this is what's tested by ImageDisk utility), but for any FDC compatible with 256 bytes/sector copying wouldn't be the problem - sure.

Do you have a souce for it being MFM (Double Density)? Everything I can find, and the age of the instrument, indicates FM (Single Density).

Robert G8RPI.

As a way to protect Analysers when used by less experienced I use an external blocking cap and a DC return
as I don’t use a spectrum analyser below 1 Mhz
The DC return part number HP 0960-0092 also has a blocking cap
The DC return is put on the analyser side and In fact the 18 ghz version is good for most work at 24 Ghz

Regards Paul

On 6/6/21 5:21 AM, Robert G8RPI via groups.io wrote:

Err, no on else seen this:


Also this document states the 4145A disk format is "unique"

Yeah that's the guy who says it's "IBM 3740 format", and the lists 40
tracks, 9 sectors per track, and 256 bytes per sector.

IBM 3740 format is 8", not 5.25". And it's 77 tracks, 26 sectors per
track, and 128 bytes per sector. I don't know what the guy was smoking.

I think that is a little harsh Dave,
The only time he mentions 3470 is for the physcal drive, this appears to
refer to the FM recording and probably came from the MB8866 FDC data
sheet. Can't blame them for using what the FDC controller manufacturer
says it is...

I have the MB8876 datasheet from 1986 and it also refers to FM as
IBM3470 format
That aside the owner for the site seems to have correctly identified?
the disk type, format and recording method.

I'm sorry that you think I was harsh; I did not mean to offend. But
the guy is simply wrong. Yes, it's true that the IBM 3740 format uses
FM, but so do dozens, if not hundreds of other floppy disk formats.
That does not make them IBM 3740 format. It doesn't even make them
anything remotely like IBM 3740 format. The fact that one can use an
MB8876 floppy disk controller chip to make a disk subsystem that
implements the IBM 3740 format is irrelevant.

What I have a problem with here is that the guy just plopped that
specification into the web page, obviously without understanding what it
means, potentially misleading people who don't know any better if they
were to see it.

I acknowledge that he presented a bunch of otherwise-useful, and
seemingly plausible information. But given the above egregious error,
I'd feel compelled to check every bit of it before using it, which seems
a shame. IMO, a better approach would have been to just not put stuff
on such a page unless he's certain it's correct, rather than just
parroting material from a datasheet and taking specifications out of
context.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On 6/6/21 8:48 AM, DW wrote:

Although I have never tried this before and not sure if I would
recommend anyone to do do this, to take a function generator and apply a
triangle wave or even a square wave at about -20 to -30dBm into a
spectrum analyzer. Some spectrum analyzers such as the 8566 do not like
DC voltage where if the square wave is a low enough frequency it might
introduce positive and negative voltages I would think. My thought of
why one might do this is to get a frequency response readout of their
function generator or a cable they are testing. What are your thoughts
about running square waves into a spectrum analyzer?

Well, if you think about it, a square wave is a perfectly valid signal
to feed into a spectrum analyzer.

All waveforms, regardless of shape, can be decomposed into sums of
pure sine waves of different amplitudes, frequencies, and phases. A
large proportion of a square wave's energy is concentrated in its odd
harmonics going up to very high frequencies, even for a square wave of
relatively low frequency. The "squarer" the square wave is, the higher
the harmonic content.

In this context, presenting a square wave to a spectrum analyzer would
be the same as a sine wave, say from an RF signal generator, regardless
of frequency. But as you lower the frequency, the signal is "DC" for
longer periods of time. After all, all signals are DC when viewed in a
brief enough time scale.

So, if you stay within the specified frequency and amplitude limits of
the spectrum analyzer, I see no reason for difficulty.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Hello,

Just a few notes about the 4145a format. There is no magic about it and it's a standard MFM (not GCR format fortunately).
Since 4145a as well as 4145b both use Fujitsu controller MB8866, which is a +5V only version of the famous 1793 (FD1793, FDC1793, SAB1793,...) integrated in many many home and office computers in the 80s.
In other words, even on Sinclair ZX-Spectrum (TRS80, Atari ST, MSX etc) a motivated coder can write a disk copy utility to duplicate 4145a floppy disk w/o any problem. It's not like Amiga floppy, which is impossible to copy on any PC FDC, not even by reading the whole track at once. So, it seems akward, but there is a better chance to use an old computer (eating dust in the attic) then the modern one.

"So a PC with a TEAC FD55A or B and one of the universal copy programs (dos or linux) should work."
Not every integrated PC FDC is 256 bytes/sector compatible (this is what's tested by ImageDisk utility), but for any FDC compatible with 256 bytes/sector copying wouldn't be the problem - sure.

开云体育

Although I have never tried this before and not sure if I would recommend anyone to do do this, to take a function generator and apply a triangle wave or even a square wave at about -20 to -30dBm into a spectrum analyzer. Some spectrum analyzers such as the 8566 do not like DC voltage where if the square wave is a low enough frequency it might introduce positive and negative voltages I would think. My thought of why one might do this is to get a frequency response readout of their function generator or a cable they are testing. What are your thoughts about running square waves into a spectrum analyzer?

On 6/06/21 3:28 pm, cheater cheater wrote:

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 3:16 AM Andy ZL3AG via groups.io
<zl3ag@...> wrote:

I've tried this before but got shot down but I'll try it again.

We all know that Agilent and Keysight = HP TE.

Subject line space is limited.

Please, please, could the subject line prefix be changed from [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] to [HPAK-equip] ?

Keysight and Agilent might be HP testing equipment spinoffs, but I
don't know what a HPAK is, and neither will anyone else who isn't in
on the joke. I'd just go for [HP].

The point is, if you're searching for this mailing list, you're going to find it no matter what the subject line prefix is, and once you've joined you're in on the joke anyway.


They're bound to come up with a new

company anyways. It's been 8 years, so apparently it's long overdue.
What's next, [HP-Agilent-Keysight-Acmemegatronics-equipment]?

Well another off-shoot I found by accident recently (while searching on VXI modules) was "Verigy" which was where all the high-end semiconductor plant TE went before Agilent became Keysight...

On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 02:17 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:

On 6/5/21 5:00 PM, Robert G8RPI via groups.io wrote:

Err, no on else seen this:


Also this document states the 4145A disk format is "unique"

Yeah that's the guy who says it's "IBM 3740 format", and the lists 40
tracks, 9 sectors per track, and 256 bytes per sector.

IBM 3740 format is 8", not 5.25". And it's 77 tracks, 26 sectors per
track, and 128 bytes per sector. I don't know what the guy was smoking.

-Dave

I think that is a little harsh Dave,
The only time he mentions 3470 is for the physcal drive, this appears to refer to the FM recording and probably came from the MB8866 FDC data sheet. Can't blame them for using what the FDC controller manufacturer says it is...

I have the MB8876 datasheet from 1986 and it also refers to FM as IBM3470 format
That aside the owner for the site seems to have correctly identified? the disk type, format and recording method.

They have also provide a means to copy disks even if it does mean taking the drive and controller card out of the 4145A

The biggest hardware issue is probably that the drive is single density and (probably) has a wide track. If you wanted to write in another drive it would have to be either single densitiy e.g TEAC FD55A or a dual density "wide head" drive like the TEAC FD55B.?
Standard narrow head DD drives could read the disk but disks witten in one will not be reliably read in the 4145's SD drive. If you wrote to a virgin disk in a narrow head DD drive? that might work, but relaibility could be an issue due to noise from the head covrering parts of thd disk that had not been written.
So a PC with a TEAC FD55A or B and one of the universal copy programs (dos or linux) should work.

Robert G8RPI.

I'm thinking they've been accelerating it, by 2029 they'll be changing
it every other month

开云体育

On 6/5/2021 8:27 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:

Ok, then let's take our pair of posts as a "for instance".
To look at things from my point of view; I use an email reader
known as Claws Mail, and I see 25 some odd clues as to what your
post is referring:
...
Re:[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]How to fix broken HP key
Re:[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]How to fix broken HP key
Re:[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]How to fix broken HP key
Re:[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]How to fix broken HP key
Re:[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]How to fix broken HP key
...
Re:[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]How to fix broken HP key

On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 5:57 PM Daun Yeagley <daun@...> wrote:

Thank you for saying that, Chuck! This is just the kind of thing that
drives me nuts. I get a LOT of emails, and I don't have the time or
patience to read all these just to figure out what the OP was talking
about.... so I just hit DELETE.

Daun

Hi Daun and Chuck,
email programs have supported threaded display - "facebook style" as
Chuck says - since the 70s. Maybe your client is just misconfigured,
since pretty much everything can use in-reply-to headers. For example:
Daun's email had the header "In-Reply-To:
<20210605082729.733c883b@glockpod>", which your client can use to
thread it, and then you don't have to read the context again after
you've read it the first time around when the original message was
sent out. Even for this list, you're behind the times. The 70s
are also when graphical fonts in user interfaces have become
practical. I'm sure you'd appreciate a high-dpi, sharp, high-contrast
font - I know my aging eyes do, which is why I bought a huge 4K TV
just to do reading on. Not having to squint all day was a huge
improvement to my quality life. Bottom line: if you're hurting
yourself, or making life hard for yourself, no amount of quoting,
bottom posting, trimming, subject editing, thread separation, or any
other dancing-around-the-problem will help you. Get up to date!

Personally, my client doesn't have any issues threading "facebook
style", and all the posts are in exactly the right place, easily
browseable, and the font makes them super easy to read for long
periods of time:

All the best and good luck figuring out how to configure threading on
your client.

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 3:16 AM Andy ZL3AG via groups.io
<zl3ag@...> wrote:

I've tried this before but got shot down but I'll try it again.

We all know that Agilent and Keysight = HP TE.

Subject line space is limited.

Please, please, could the subject line prefix be changed from [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] to [HPAK-equip] ?

Keysight and Agilent might be HP testing equipment spinoffs, but I
don't know what a HPAK is, and neither will anyone else who isn't in
on the joke. I'd just go for [HP]. They're bound to come up with a new
company anyways. It's been 8 years, so apparently it's long overdue.
What's next, [HP-Agilent-Keysight-Acmemegatronics-equipment]?