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Re: HP5342A counter A3 failure

Richard
 

I've seen that George, But using the MC100 will not replicate the same function as in the HP8640

as the device in question has a 2 input AND gate at the input and that was use to gate the counter.

If it was U1 which had died I could use a MC100 as the input on U1 is not gated , unfortunately the full function of the device was used

in U4 position. The MC100 has a differential input, and doesn't follow the same function as an AND gate..

I could remove U1 and use that as a replacement for U4, use a MC100 to replace U1 , bypassing the output stage U2 which is the EECL to ECL conveter

Thanks

Richard g8jvm

On 05/12/2020 15:20, george edmonds via groups.io wrote:
Hi Richard

HP did not originally use standard ECL they used there own version.

Look at some of the information on the 8640, there are details as to how to use standard ECL instead.

George G6HIG Dover UK
On Saturday, 5 December 2020, 14:52:58 GMT, Richard <richard@...> wrote:


Hi all

My HP5342A counter 0-500MHz input has died. I've used the manual
downloaded from the Keysite, but

not the best scan , but useable.

I have plenty of input at the input to U4, both the Gate and reset sigs
are at the IC, but all I see out is pulses which are the same as the
reset pulse on pins 4 & 6,

Nothing on the output of the board.

So I guess the device is dead . its a HP special , also used on the
HP8640 sig gens in the divider stages,? HP 1820-0736?? ECL divide by 2
with an and gate on the input.

the rest of the counter is working OK counts up to 18GHz, As the reset
pulses are visible on pins 6 & 4 , there is cat in hells chance the
input gate maybe be all thats damaged on the IC

it maybe possible to swap U4 and U1, but that is a far from easy process
due to the through hole plating that HP used back then and it would all
depend on if there is enough leakage

though the defective gate for the divide by 2 to clock , its in the last
resort category :(

Has anyone got one of these ICs , or a A3 board or a scrap board from a
HP8640 I could extract the IC from ????

This is NOT for commercial use , I use the counter as part of my hobby
Ham radio

TIA

--
? Best wishes /73
? Richard Bown

? Email : richard@... <mailto:richard@...>

? HTTP? :

######################################################################

? Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave
? Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
? QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W,
? Microwave 1296MHz 110W, 2320MHz 100W, 5760MHz 10W & 10368MHz 5W
? OS: Linux Mint 20, on a Dell Inspiron 3580 laptop
######################################################################






--
Best wishes /73
Richard Bown
Email : richard@...

HTTP :
######################################################################

Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave
Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W,
Microwave 1296MHz 110W, 2320MHz 100W, 5760MHz 10W & 10368MHz 5W
OS: Linux Mint 20, on a Dell Inspiron 3580 laptop
######################################################################
Re: HP5342A counter A3 failure

 

Hi Richard

HP did not originally use standard ECL they used there own version.

Look at some of the information on the 8640, there are details as to how to use standard ECL instead.

George G6HIG Dover UK
On Saturday, 5 December 2020, 14:52:58 GMT, Richard <richard@...> wrote:


Hi all

My HP5342A counter 0-500MHz input has died. I've used the manual
downloaded from the Keysite, but

not the best scan , but useable.

I have plenty of input at the input to U4, both the Gate and reset sigs
are at the IC, but all I see out is pulses which are the same as the
reset pulse on pins 4 & 6,

Nothing on the output of the board.

So I guess the device is dead . its a HP special , also used on the
HP8640 sig gens in the divider stages,? HP 1820-0736?? ECL divide by 2
with an and gate on the input.

the rest of the counter is working OK counts up to 18GHz, As the reset
pulses are visible on pins 6 & 4 , there is cat in hells chance the
input gate maybe be all thats damaged on the IC

it maybe possible to swap U4 and U1, but that is a far from easy process
due to the through hole plating that HP used back then and it would all
depend on if there is enough leakage

though the defective gate for the divide by 2 to clock , its in the last
resort category :(

Has anyone got one of these ICs , or a A3 board or a scrap board from a
HP8640 I could extract the IC from ????

This is NOT for commercial use , I use the counter as part of my hobby
Ham radio

TIA

--
? Best wishes /73
? Richard Bown
?
? Email : richard@...

? HTTP? :?
?
? ######################################################################

? Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave
? Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
? QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W,
? Microwave 1296MHz 110W, 2320MHz 100W, 5760MHz 10W & 10368MHz 5W
? OS: Linux Mint 20, on a Dell Inspiron 3580 laptop
? ######################################################################
HP5342A counter A3 failure

Richard
 

Hi all

My HP5342A counter 0-500MHz input has died. I've used the manual downloaded from the Keysite, but

not the best scan , but useable.

I have plenty of input at the input to U4, both the Gate and reset sigs are at the IC, but all I see out is pulses which are the same as the reset pulse on pins 4 & 6,

Nothing on the output of the board.

So I guess the device is dead . its a HP special , also used on the HP8640 sig gens in the divider stages,? HP 1820-0736?? ECL divide by 2 with an and gate on the input.

the rest of the counter is working OK counts up to 18GHz, As the reset pulses are visible on pins 6 & 4 , there is cat in hells chance the input gate maybe be all thats damaged on the IC

it maybe possible to swap U4 and U1, but that is a far from easy process due to the through hole plating that HP used back then and it would all depend on if there is enough leakage

though the defective gate for the divide by 2 to clock , its in the last resort category :(

Has anyone got one of these ICs , or a A3 board or a scrap board from a HP8640 I could extract the IC from ????

This is NOT for commercial use , I use the counter as part of my hobby Ham radio

TIA

--
Best wishes /73
Richard Bown
Email : richard@...

HTTP :
######################################################################

Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave
Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W,
Microwave 1296MHz 110W, 2320MHz 100W, 5760MHz 10W & 10368MHz 5W
OS: Linux Mint 20, on a Dell Inspiron 3580 laptop
######################################################################
Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

Ordinary PVC is very, very low loss through low microwave frequencies, as is
easily demonstrated by putting a piece in your microwave oven.

Do you have a reference I can look at that shows your assertion?

-Chuck Harris

Andy ZL3AG via groups.io wrote:


Depending on the frequency, PVC's loss tangent will ruin your loop Q, so try to use
HDPE or LDPE instead.

Possible source of litz wire can be transformers used in high efficiency SMPS's, but
the ideal litz wire (wire thickness and qty of wires) changes, even across the MW band.

If you want to build a kick-arse receive loop for MW, I highly recommend the late
Graham Maynard's "Sprial loop with Q multiplier" as found in Practical Wireless - the
best loop I've ever used (feeding into a Racal RA17L).
Re: Can capacitors

 

Here's their sales website:
Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

I`d need to strengthen the spider...

Don C.

Virus-free.

Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

Depending on the frequency, PVC's loss tangent will ruin your loop Q, so try to use HDPE or LDPE instead.

Possible source of litz wire can be transformers used in high efficiency SMPS's, but the ideal litz wire (wire thickness and qty of wires) changes, even across the MW band.

If you want to build a kick-arse receive loop for MW, I highly recommend the late Graham Maynard's "Sprial loop with Q multiplier" as found in Practical Wireless - the best loop I've ever used (feeding into a Racal RA17L).
Can capacitors

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Greetings,

From time to time I see that someone is working to repair or restore an instrument with the old multi capacitor metal can components and that appears to be a never ending struggle.

The other night I reconnected with an old friend with whom I had not spoken in a couple of years.

He has always had an interest in restoring old audio equipment. ?As we visited he mentioned a company that still builds Mallory style metal can capacitors. ?My friend said they even use the old, original equipment.

I was very surprised and actually found that a little hard to believe, but it turns out to be true.

While I do not know about configurations, minimum quantities or pricing it appears this company makes those old style metal can multi-unit capacitors.


I have no financial interest - or really - any other interest in this - just hoping it helps some of our group.

Regards,

Ken
Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

Very interesting Daniel.? The US transmitter at Cutler, Maine? uses similar Litz wire, but runs three of them in parallel to keep the losses down!
Great pictures.

Ed W2EMN


-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Artaud F6BRD via groups.io <f1enp@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, Dec 4, 2020 6:44 pm
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

Hi Donald,
I think this one would have fulfill your need.
composed of 18000 enamelled coper wires but it is rather heavy: 5 kg per meter and more than 8 cm in diameter. My hand gives the scale for one of the connectors.
This beast was used in a variometer in a very high power VLF transmitter.
I have only a length of 20 cm in souvenir.
Daniel Artaud, F6BRD

Le 04/12/2020 ¨¤ 22:51, donald collie a ¨¦crit?:
Hi Rainer. I`m planning a 10 turn square loop, with turns spaced an inch or so to get the self resonant frequency to be as high as possible. Each side will be 2meters or so long, so I`ll need 2 x 4 x 10 meters, or 80 meters total.? I`m not using a screened loop, because the turns would be close to each other, and the self capacitance would be higher, causing the self resonant frequency to be lower. Thanks for your response......................Don Collie

Virus-free.

Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Donald,

I think this one would have fulfill your need.

composed of 18000 enamelled coper wires but it is rather heavy: 5 kg per meter and more than 8 cm in diameter. My hand gives the scale for one of the connectors.

This beast was used in a variometer in a very high power VLF transmitter.

I have only a length of 20 cm in souvenir.

Daniel Artaud, F6BRD


Le 04/12/2020 ¨¤ 22:51, donald collie a ¨¦crit?:

Hi Rainer. I`m planning a 10 turn square loop, with turns spaced an inch or so to get the self resonant frequency to be as high as possible. Each side will be 2meters or so long, so I`ll need 2 x 4 x 10 meters, or 80 meters total.? I`m not using a screened loop, because the turns would be close to each other, and the self capacitance would be higher, causing the self resonant frequency to be lower. Thanks for your response......................Don Collie

Virus-free.

Re: 8590B low sensitivity problem...

 

I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but...? I had similar symptoms with my Tektronix 494AP, where it would not complete the sorta self calibrate.? Turned out the sensitivity was about 20 dB low.? I tracked this down to one of the input attenuators being stuck.? Cleaning the linkage cleared the problem and he now works fine.

I don't know the architecture of the 8590 series of analyzers, but I think my first test would be to by pass the input step attenuator and see how the sensitivity is going in after the attenuator; at least to rule that out as a possible problem.

Burt, K6OQK


8590B low sensitivity problem
From: Martin Whybrow
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 07:30:46 PST

Having repaired the PSU and overcome my issue with corrupt NVRAM, I'm now trying to run the self calibration routines. The frequency routines run OK, but the amplitude routines fail very quickly. Testing the analyser with a variety of sources shows that it's very insensitive, unable to discriminate a signal below about 10MHz, improving very slightly as the frequency inceases to 200MHz, but still 70dB too low. I'm having to use the 8590E manual for the fault finding process as I'm unable to locate the service manual for the B; I do have the CLIP for the B version, although there do seem to be differences on my unit, e.g. the backup battery is on the main board and is AA rather than the A123 battery on the memory board indicated in the CLIP. The service manual calls for the HP IF Test Module which isn't something I can lay my hands on, making it rather tricky to fault find signal level issues, especially as the CLIP doesn't have signal levels marked in many places.
Does anyone have the correct service manual for the 8590B or can tell me what signal levels to expect at various locations?

Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
biwa@...
K6OQK

--
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, CA 91201 U.S.A.
K6OQK
8412A and 1710A boards/parts

 

Anyone have a need for boards or parts for an 8412A phase magnitude display or a 1710A oscilloscope?? I broke these down to assemblies/boards about 10 years ago as the devices had mechanical damage.?

Tony
Re: HP8505A focus (or ghosting)

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

gassy jug

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of vk2bea via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8505A focus (or ghosting)

?

I get a focus or ghosting issue with the display on my HP8505A network analyser.?

I can 'go through' focus but it doesn't get really sharp at all. The picture below is a little deceptive in that it seems more like a slight ghost image rather than typical bad focus.?
It's been like this since I bought the device (more than 20 years) but it would be nice to fix it.
I've seen other images from the 8505A that are much sharper.
Does anyone have an idea what might be needing adjustment?

Michael
HP8505A focus (or ghosting)

 

I get a focus or ghosting issue with the display on my HP8505A network analyser.?

I can 'go through' focus but it doesn't get really sharp at all. The picture below is a little deceptive in that it seems more like a slight ghost image rather than typical bad focus.?
It's been like this since I bought the device (more than 20 years) but it would be nice to fix it.
I've seen other images from the 8505A that are much sharper.
Does anyone have an idea what might be needing adjustment?

Michael
Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

Hi Rainer. I`m planning a 10 turn square loop, with turns spaced an inch or so to get the self resonant frequency to be as high as possible. Each side will be 2meters or so long, so I`ll need 2 x 4 x 10 meters, or 80 meters total.? I`m not using a screened loop, because the turns would be close to each other, and the self capacitance would be higher, causing the self resonant frequency to be lower. Thanks for your response......................Don Collie

Virus-free.

Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 00:21, donald collie <donaldbcollie@...> wrote:
Sorry about the off topic post, but can anyone suggest a source of Litz wire that can be used outside in the weather.[PVC, or Teflon, etc covered]. I`m going to build a loop antenna for receive, and need several meters. Thankyou!? <donaldbcollie@...>

Scientific Wire Company?


I expect they will export if you are not in the UK. You can buy online.?


--
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkirkby@...

Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United Kingdom
Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

Cute..forgot pix

On Friday, December 4, 2020, 12:55:32 PM PST, jim via groups.io <ab7vf@...> wrote:


Built this ...used a "hula hoop" from the toy store, aluminum foil for shield, 4 conductor "telephone" wire for conductor (multiple turns) ...FWIW? (not an open frame type tho)

Jim

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 9:08:57 PM PST, george edmonds via groups.io <g6hig@...> wrote:


Donald

I would suggest that you use standard cotton covered and put several layers of varnish on it.

George G6HIG Dover UK
On Friday, 4 December 2020, 00:21:54 GMT, donald collie <donaldbcollie@...> wrote:


Sorry about the off topic post, but can anyone suggest a source of Litz wire that can be used outside in the weather.[PVC, or Teflon, etc covered]. I`m going to build a loop antenna for receive, and need several meters. Thankyou!? <donaldbcollie@...>

Antenna.jpeg

Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

Built this ...used a "hula hoop" from the toy store, aluminum foil for shield, 4 conductor "telephone" wire for conductor (multiple turns) ...FWIW? (not an open frame type tho)

Jim

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 9:08:57 PM PST, george edmonds via groups.io <g6hig@...> wrote:


Donald

I would suggest that you use standard cotton covered and put several layers of varnish on it.

George G6HIG Dover UK
On Friday, 4 December 2020, 00:21:54 GMT, donald collie <donaldbcollie@...> wrote:


Sorry about the off topic post, but can anyone suggest a source of Litz wire that can be used outside in the weather.[PVC, or Teflon, etc covered]. I`m going to build a loop antenna for receive, and need several meters. Thankyou!? <donaldbcollie@...>

Re: Repairing flat high voltage ribbon used in HP displays

 

On 2020-12-04 6:13 a.m., Joel Setton wrote:
Hello,

Yes, this is a delicate repair, indeed. Replacing the complete ribbon
cable, assuming you could get one, does not look like an option, because
the other end of the cable is somehow bonded to the CRT, I think there's
no possibility you could remove it in a way which would make it repairable.

You are right in saying that high-voltage insulation is only required
between the HV trace and the others. Slicing the cable so that the HV
conductor is separate from the other ones looks like a reasonable
possibility, assuming you could find some nice, flexible tubing which
could stand the high voltage (teflon ?). I think it would be more
flexible if "not shrunk".? It would not look as nice as the original
thing, but there's a good chance it would work.

For what it's worth, I am attaching a picture of the flat cable in my
181A. It looks very similar to the one in your 1335A. What is not
visible in the picture is that I also installed a piece of plastic sheet
inside the cover, so that the ribbon cable would not spring an arc to
the sheet metal. Of course, YMMV.
Hi Joel

I'm assuming this ribbon was used for CRTs with a common storage topology.

Couple of questions:

* did you actually see arcing because of the delamination?
* if so, was there damage to the low voltage circuit? (not sure which of
storage or collector is the closer conductor to the HV)

I'm thinking I would need to clamp the crt end of the sliced portion
somehow to prevent any delamination there. Haven't come up with anything
better than maybe two pieces of FR4 screwed together, with rubber
pressure pads against the ribbon.

--Toby


I'm staying tuned !
Joel
Re: Weather resistant, covered Litz wire wanted.

 

I am puzzled as to why you want litz wire. Litz wire was used many for winding low or medium frequency receiver coils such as IF coils. At some frequency it no longer has any advantage over plain wire. Perhaps I've missed something but I don't know of any application where weatherproofed litz wire would be used. A description of the application would be helpful.

On 12/4/2020 11:02 AM, doug wrote:


On 12/4/20 2:50 AM, donald collie wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion George - there`s plenty of cotton covered
stuff on eBay [bless em]...................Don C.

<>
????Virus-free. www.avast.com
<>



On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:08 PM george edmonds via groups.io
<> <G6HIG@...
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

??? Donald

??? I would suggest that you use standard cotton covered and put
??? several layers of varnish on it.

??? George G6HIG Dover UK
??? On Friday, 4 December 2020, 00:21:54 GMT, donald collie
??? <donaldbcollie@... <mailto:donaldbcollie@...>> wrote:


??? Sorry about the off topic post, but can anyone suggest a source of
??? Litz wire that can be used outside in the weather.[PVC, or Teflon,
??? etc covered]. I`m going to build a loop antenna for receive, and
??? need several meters. Thankyou!? <donaldbcollie@...
??? <mailto:donaldbcollie@...>>

I may be missing something, but "standard cotton-covered wire" with
"several layers of varnish" does
not appear to me any better than standard magnet wire, with its own
insulating varnish, and a lot
less trouble.
--doug, WA2SAY--retired RF engineer



--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL
39621 - 39640 of 151459