Re: new File called App notes
Probably time for a capacitorectomy (doesn't rhyme with hysterectomy like resistorectomy does, though, unfortunately).
Thanks.
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: "nigel adams via groups.io" <nigel.adams@...> Date: 4/21/20 9:43 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
First place to look is the PSU caps as always... Nigel Adams - Marconi Instruments Heritage Collection -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Wise Sent: 21 April 2020 17:34 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes My 400EL (S/N prefix 949) has succumbed to meter scale rot, but I hooked an analog DC voltmeter to the DC OUTPUT banana jacks on the rear panel.? It reads 29mV +/- 1mV of jitter.? It drops 1mV when I turn off the overhead fluorescent lights, and 1mV when I put a metal cover over the BNC. This translates into about 3% of scale with barely perceptible jitter on the 400E, and far below scale on the 400EL. To my surprise, I didn't see a noise spec in the manual, but what I observed doesn't sound out of line. I think your instrument is troubled, Jim. Dave Wise ________________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Jim Ford via groups.io <james.ford@...> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:38 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes Me, too.? I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it for some time.? On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be stopped, that would be great. Or is there something else wrong with mine? Thanks. Jim Ford
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Re: new File called App notes
I agree.? I think it is f'd up.
Thanks.
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Dave Wise <david_wise@...> Date: 4/21/20 9:33 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
My 400EL (S/N prefix 949) has succumbed to meter scale rot, but I hooked an analog DC voltmeter to the DC OUTPUT banana jacks on the rear panel.? It reads 29mV +/- 1mV of jitter.? It drops 1mV when I turn off the overhead fluorescent lights, and 1mV when I put a metal cover over the BNC. This translates into about 3% of scale with barely perceptible jitter on the 400E, and far below scale on the 400EL. To my surprise, I didn't see a noise spec in the manual, but what I observed doesn't sound out of line. I think your instrument is troubled, Jim. Dave Wise ________________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Jim Ford via groups.io <james.ford@...> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:38 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes Me, too.? I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it for some time.? On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be stopped, that would be great. Or is there something else wrong with mine? Thanks. Jim Ford
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Re: HP400E was new File called App notes
Thanks, Goran.
I figured this thing was about that old.? I've had the 400E for almost 30 years now.?
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Goran Finnberg <mastering@...> Date: 4/21/20 5:02 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP400E was new File called App notes
Jim Ford:
>I was assuming 600 ohms for audio.? Sorry no.
600 ohm for Pro-Audio has been dead for at least 50 years.
It is usually <50 ohm out and 10 kohm bridging input.
The HP400E is 10 meg ohm input impedance.
----------
Best regards,
Goran Finnberg
The Mastering Room AB
Goteborg
Sweden
E-mail: mastering@...
Learn from the mistakes of others, you can never live long enough to
make them all yourself.??? -?? John Luther
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") Aron, VovVov, Nero & Smurfen:RIP
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Re: HP 3314A manual needed
hello guys, i made a schematic of the 3314 of the different plot and that is not included in the manual 3314-90025. Perhaps it will be enough to meet the need. please provide an email address that I send a copy of in pdf.
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8505A extender card for loan or sale?
Greetings,
I've got some debugging to do on my 8505A and I haven't had any luck finding a 25 position extender card with the right terminal spacing.? HPs for the 8505 is: 08505-60108.
Anyone have one I could use?
Steve AB0KB
Boulder Co.
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The 97002A current shunt for the HP 970A probe voltmeter.
I have one of these shunts with a broken range switch knob. Does anyone know how to remove the knob on this without damaging the fixed central disc that does not rotate with the outer ring part of the knob? I realize the above sentence may not make too much sense if you don't know the device so a couple of photos may be found here- /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=245627 Only the knurled outer ring moves to operate the range switch- the central disc is fixed but needs to be removed to repair the damaged knob assy which has come adrift from the switch shaft. It's not obvious how to remove the disc without damaging it. DaveB, NZ
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HP8562B: are 31.8kHz spurs related to the SMPS?
I'm getting round to looking at my HP8562B spectrum analyser.
When looking at a simple signal (e.g. the 300MHz cal out), I've noticed some spurs at +-31.8kHz (-70dBc) with harmonics such as +-63.7kHz (-72sBc). I presume those spurs are related to PSU switching noise.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=758046
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=758052
Q1: are such spurs part of normal operation, or are they a warning of impending failure?
Q2: how difficult is it to recap the PSU? (I have recapped scope PSUs before now)
Thanks
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Re: Series 1 & 2 boxes (was Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet)
That¡¯s System II. They have removable handles. System I handles are part of the cast aluminum alloy side panels are are removable only by dropping the instrument from a considerable distance onto the handle. This process is not reversible!
Jeremy?
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:13 PM n4buq < n4buq@...> wrote: Is a System III the type used for an HP 3456A, etc.?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Kruth via " <kmec=[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:55:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]Series 1 & 2 boxes (was Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet)
>
> Well, I was wrong and Robert corrected me. What I thought were System II were
> System I cases (not series), checked my 1976 Catalog, page 475 . They had no
> nomenclature for the earlier ones.
>
> So what is a System III case? I have heard mention of it.
> Jeff
> In a message dated 4/21/2020 2:38:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> kmec=[email protected] writes:
> Hi Dave!Series One is the 200C, etc, series of rounded corner cabinets that
> housed Rack mount instruments. The 340 Noise figure meter is an example that
> comes to mind: A puce cabinet that is held in place by 2 set crews under the
> front edge that allows the cabinet to slip off and reveal a 19 inch rack
> panel inside, ready to bolt up. There were smaller instruments like the 200
> CD, the 428A clip-on ammeter, 425A DC Microvoltmeter. Othe cases were the
> 608A-F Sig Gen, 606A/B sig gen, etc.The series 2 were cases like the 432A
> power meter and the 8640B sig gen, 8690 sweeper, 141T Spec An, etc. These
> used the cast aluminum side rails.
> Regards,Jeff
> In a message dated 4/21/2020 1:01:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> david_wise@... writes:
>
>
> ??Thank you, Jeff!? I only need two.? I'll send you my address off-list.
>
> ?
>
> Now I'm confused.? If I'm Series 2 (cast Al sides), then what was Series 1?
> ?Is there a cheat sheet, or representative example models?
>
> ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Wise
> From: [email protected]
> <[email protected]> on behalf of Jeff Kruth via
> <kmec=[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:48 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1
> cabinet
> I have a stash from scrapping HP stuff. How many do you need? Also isnt the
> 740 a series 2 cabinet? With the cast Aluminum side rails, etc?
> Jeff
> In a message dated 4/21/2020 11:49:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> david_wise@... writes:
>
>
> The top and bottom covers of the 740B are secured by screws which go through
> 6-32 J-style?spring nuts clipped onto the side panels.? Except I'm missing
> some of them.? The manual doesn't mention them.
>
> ?
>
> These particular?spring nuts (speed?nuts, clip nuts, Tinnerman nuts, J-nuts,
> U-nuts)?seem to be obsolete or custom-made; I can't find anything to match.
>
> ?
>
> The sticking point is the?1/8-inch panel depth.
>
> ?
>
> All I can find?are for a 1/16-inch?panel.
>
> ?
>
> Got any leads?
>
> ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Wise
>
> ?
>
> PS: I think U-style would work as well as J-style.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Hi, I certainly agree with you Bill E. I worked for this company from 1990 till 2015 designing analog phase lock loops and digital frequency locked loops using an OCXO, among other things. A major problem was that too big steps were taken in system design without any understanding for production difficulties or for reasonable customer requirements and needs. There was never any forum for the critical discussions. Just two examples, expecting a physically very small OCXO oscillator to be spot on in five minutes is ridiculous. The customer does not need to be up and running in five minutes, instead 20 to 25 minutes is good enough and you can settle with an older well proven design. Another problem never understood by production is that a complex OCXO design does not survive automatic soldering even though you might get that impression reading the specification. And when the next project begins the newly acquired costly experience is lost and has to be reinvented.
G?ran
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Re: Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet
Hi Jeff,
I tried not to correct you :-), the System II does have cast side rails, but they are hidden under the panels.
All this applies to the MODULAR case system. The early instruments and some later ones were not modular. A good example the the 5315A? and 5315B counter
The 5315A (and 5314A) are not in modular case but the 5315B (and 5316A) are in System II cases.
Modular cases can be racked and stacked with two or 3 small insruments of the same height filling a 19" rack.?
Some of the bigger orginal instruments had handles built into the sides but are still of the same construction.
HP sold the cases to end users and other OEMs to build their own insruments into so everthing matched.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: Series 1 & 2 boxes (was Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet)
Is a System III the type used for an HP 3456A, etc.?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
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Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Kruth via groups.io" <kmec@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:55:07 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]Series 1 & 2 boxes (was Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet)
Well, I was wrong and Robert corrected me. What I thought were System II were
System I cases (not series), checked my 1976 Catalog, page 475 . They had no
nomenclature for the earlier ones.
So what is a System III case? I have heard mention of it.
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 2:38:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kmec@... writes:
Hi Dave!Series One is the 200C, etc, series of rounded corner cabinets that
housed Rack mount instruments. The 340 Noise figure meter is an example that
comes to mind: A puce cabinet that is held in place by 2 set crews under the
front edge that allows the cabinet to slip off and reveal a 19 inch rack
panel inside, ready to bolt up. There were smaller instruments like the 200
CD, the 428A clip-on ammeter, 425A DC Microvoltmeter. Othe cases were the
608A-F Sig Gen, 606A/B sig gen, etc.The series 2 were cases like the 432A
power meter and the 8640B sig gen, 8690 sweeper, 141T Spec An, etc. These
used the cast aluminum side rails.
Regards,Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 1:01:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
david_wise@... writes:
??Thank you, Jeff! ?I only need two. ?I'll send you my address off-list.
?
Now I'm confused. ?If I'm Series 2 (cast Al sides), then what was Series 1?
?Is there a cheat sheet, or representative example models?
?
Thanks,
Dave Wise
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> on behalf of Jeff Kruth via
groups.io <kmec@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1
cabinet
I have a stash from scrapping HP stuff. How many do you need? Also isnt the
740 a series 2 cabinet? With the cast Aluminum side rails, etc?
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 11:49:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
david_wise@... writes:
The top and bottom covers of the 740B are secured by screws which go through
6-32 J-style?spring nuts clipped onto the side panels. ?Except I'm missing
some of them. ?The manual doesn't mention them.
?
These particular?spring nuts (speed?nuts, clip nuts, Tinnerman nuts, J-nuts,
U-nuts)?seem to be obsolete or custom-made; I can't find anything to match.
?
The sticking point is the?1/8-inch panel depth.
?
All I can find?are for a 1/16-inch?panel.
?
Got any leads?
?
Thanks,
Dave Wise
?
PS: I think U-style would work as well as J-style.
|
Re: Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet
The 339A is a System II case.
Quick test: Put your finger on the bezel edge on the left side of the case and trace the unbroken line of the bezel upward to the top LH corner, If it flows back with a radius to the top of the side of the case it's original modular (System I), if it turns? 90 degrees right with a sharp corner and across the top of the front panel it's System II.
Robert G8RPI.
|
Re: Series 1 & 2 boxes (was Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet)
Thank you, Jeff, for finding that catalog page.
So the old vacuum-tube instruments like the 428 and 606?are?pre-System, cast side panel?boxes like the 5245 and 740 are?System I, and cabinets with corner rails like the 339A?are System
II.
"System III" may be my defective memory. ?Somebody will know.
Dave Wise
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Jeff Kruth via groups.io <kmec@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 1:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment]Series 1 & 2 boxes (was Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet)
?
Well, I was wrong and Robert corrected me. What I thought were System II were System I cases
(not series), checked my 1976 Catalog, page 475 . They had no nomenclature for the earlier ones.??
So what is a System III case? I have heard mention of it.
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 2:38:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, kmec@... writes:
Hi Dave!
Series One is the 200C, etc, series of rounded corner cabinets that housed Rack mount instruments. The 340 Noise figure meter is an example that comes to mind: A puce cabinet
that is held in place by 2 set crews under the front edge that allows the cabinet to slip off and reveal a 19 inch rack panel inside, ready to bolt up. There were smaller instruments like the 200 CD, the 428A clip-on ammeter, 425A DC Microvoltmeter. Othe cases
were the 608A-F Sig Gen, 606A/B sig gen, etc.
The series 2 were cases like the 432A power meter and the 8640B sig gen, 8690 sweeper, 141T Spec An, etc. These used the cast aluminum side rails.
Regards,
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 1:01:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
david_wise@... writes:
??Thank you, Jeff! ?I only need two. ?I'll send you my address off-list.
?
Now I'm confused. ?If I'm Series 2 (cast Al sides), then what was Series 1? ?Is there a cheat sheet, or representative example models?
?
Thanks,
Dave Wise
I have a stash from scrapping HP stuff. How many do you need? Also isnt the 740 a series 2 cabinet? With the cast Aluminum side rails, etc?
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 11:49:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
david_wise@... writes:
The top and bottom covers of the 740B are secured by screws which go through 6-32 J-style?spring nuts clipped onto the side panels. ?Except I'm missing some of them. ?The manual doesn't mention them.
?
These particular?spring nuts (speed?nuts, clip nuts, Tinnerman nuts, J-nuts, U-nuts)?seem to be obsolete or custom-made; I can't find anything to
match.
?
The sticking point is the?1/8-inch panel depth.
?
All I can find?are for a 1/16-inch?panel.
?
Got any leads?
?
Thanks,
Dave Wise
?
PS: I think U-style would work as well as J-style.
|
Re: Series 1 & 2 boxes (was Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet)
Well, I was wrong and Robert corrected me. What I thought were System II were System I cases (not series), checked my 1976 Catalog, page 475 . They had no nomenclature for the earlier ones.??
So what is a System III case? I have heard mention of it.
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 2:38:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, kmec@... writes:
Hi Dave!
Series One is the 200C, etc, series of rounded corner cabinets that housed Rack mount instruments. The 340 Noise figure meter is an example that comes to mind: A puce cabinet that is held in place by 2 set crews under the front edge that allows the cabinet to slip off and reveal a 19 inch rack panel inside, ready to bolt up. There were smaller instruments like the 200 CD, the 428A clip-on ammeter, 425A DC Microvoltmeter. Othe cases were the 608A-F Sig Gen, 606A/B sig gen, etc.
The series 2 were cases like the 432A power meter and the 8640B sig gen, 8690 sweeper, 141T Spec An, etc. These used the cast aluminum side rails.
Regards,
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 1:01:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, david_wise@... writes:
??Thank you, Jeff! ?I only need two. ?I'll send you my address off-list.
?
Now I'm confused. ?If I'm Series 2 (cast Al sides), then what was Series 1? ?Is there a cheat sheet, or representative example models?
?
Thanks,
Dave Wise
I have a stash from scrapping HP stuff. How many do you need? Also isnt the 740 a series 2 cabinet? With the cast Aluminum side rails, etc?
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 11:49:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, david_wise@... writes:
The top and bottom covers of the 740B are secured by screws which go through 6-32 J-style?spring nuts clipped onto the side panels. ?Except I'm missing some of them. ?The manual doesn't mention them.
?
These particular?spring nuts (speed?nuts, clip nuts, Tinnerman nuts, J-nuts, U-nuts)?seem to be obsolete or custom-made; I can't find anything to match.
?
The sticking point is the?1/8-inch panel depth.
?
All I can find?are for a 1/16-inch?panel.
?
Got any leads?
?
Thanks,
Dave Wise
?
PS: I think U-style would work as well as J-style.
|
Re: ag33500b programmers manual
Got it from Keysight. They had to go find it first but Support got back with the link.
Thx
|
+1 on "Soul of a New Machine" for which Tracy Kidder rightfully received a Pulitzer prize.? ?Brilliant description of the product development process and will sound very familiar to those of us who have worked at start-up companies.?
Keysight << Agilent <<<< HP (the original HP, of course)
Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Greg Muir via groups.io" <big_sky_explorer@...> Date: 4/21/20 11:01 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Book on Hp
I also recommend the following:
?
¡°The HP Way: How Bill Hewlett and I Built Our Company¡± by David Packard
ISBN 978-0-06-084579-7
?
¡°Bill & Dave¡¯s Memos: A Collection of Bill Hewlett & Dave Packard¡¯s Writings¡± edited by Albert Yuen
ISBN 978-1-4243-2781-2
?
There was also a book published years ago titled ¡°The Soul of a New Machine¡± by Tracy Kidder back in 1981 (reprinted in 2000 under ISBN 978-0-3164-9197-6) not related to HP but is a very absorbing book about how development of an electronic product nearly became a living entity in the eyes of the designers as it went through the design process.? I highly recommend it as well.
?
Nowadays companies are in the eyes of management simply something to acquire to make their company bigger and to reap more profits.? Except for the tiny entrepreneur the average company no longer has time for management to feel like what they put into their products is part of their own being to give the best to customers.? This was borne out by the theft of the HP name to put on cheap jelly bean products of which today¡¯s customers are clueless about the actual corporation and founders who put their entire lives into making that name so famous from the quality products that they offered.? In those days living customers were the focus, not the money that they offered.? The money was somewhat of a form of congratulation to tell Bill and Dave that they did a successful job and to promote more excellent products to be offered in the future.
?
When I talk to Agilent/Keysight/whatever sales people & engineers I still use the HP name which either draws puzzled looks or pointed comments that the company is ¡°NOW KEYSIGHT!!¡± Yes, but where did this now-funny-named company originate?
?
Greg
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Software bloat does not just affect "desktop" programs, it is a problem with embedded code too. I'm no programmer, but hacked some code together for a PIC16F87x to run the prototype of a small machine many yers ago. It had a very simple serial command interface. It was written with a basic complier (PicBasicPro). Prototype all worked so the design was given to the professional programmers to write "proper" code. A week later they came back and asked for a change to a PIC with more memory. In short, while I'd used the PIC's UART they used a bought in "C" comms libary that bit-banged the ame pin ......
In another case, a machine had to calculate timing for a dispense volume based on measured supply pressure and the programmers requested a 16bit processor thet supported floating point math.
I asked why they needed floating point math and then explained the significance of the choice of 4.096V as the ADC reference
Why complicate the code when you can tailor the hardware (or read the data sheet).
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet
OK, fair enough. But what were the "other" cases from the dawn of time. series "0"??
Jeff
In a message dated 4/21/2020 2:50:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, robert8rpi@... writes:
Forgot to say,
740B is Original "series I"
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Re: Seeking Spring Nuts for Series 1 cabinet
Sorry for being dense, Robert, but could you name a specific model from the catalog as an example of System 2.
What cabinet?is the 339A Distortion Measuring Set?
Thanks,
Dave Wise
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HP never called the original modular cases System I but did call the later one System II
Original (System I) had one piece cast alloy side panel frames with continious exposed edge and vinyl coated flat alloy side panel inserts. Front and rear panels were folded flat alloy sheet lacated in slots in the side frame and clamped between them.
System II had one piece cast alloy front and rear panel frames, connected by either two internal side castings (generally on small cases) or 4 corner casting on larger ones. Front an rear panels alloy and held in frame by hidden screws.
See the 1976 catalogue for pictuers of both.
Robert G8RPI.
|
On 4/21/20 2:21 PM, n4buq wrote: I'm not an avid book reader but I have read "Soul of a New Machine" (twice as I recall) and I found that book fascinating and kept my attention throughout. Those guys worked so hard on that project. I'll bet that even though the hours were unbelievably long, there was a spirit of commitment to get that product out the door that I'd guess is missing in most workplaces nowadays. Of course it's missing. When corporations treat their employees like a liability, a necessary evil, or "dirty" people, who could possibly be motivated to care about their job or the company's products? Is it five o'clock yet? Every now and then I run across a company that's run in a way that Bill and Dave would approve of. I'm lucky (VERY lucky) to have such a company as my main customer now. But these are very rare anymore, thanks to the idiot who wrote the paper that resulted in "suits gone wild", referencing my post the other day. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Jeremy Nichols
G?ran Krusell
Dave McGuire