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Re: new File called App notes

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I was assuming 600 ohms for audio.?

Jim



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...>
Date: 4/20/20 8:58 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

All HP-400 AC voltmeters have 10 Megohms input impedance: the solid-state E/EL, F/FL, and GL, and the older hollow-state D, H, and L, plus rack versions of the latter three. The solid-state voltmeters have a range of 10 Hz to 10 MHz while the vacuum tube versions are limited to 4 MHz. As usual for HP, the frequency range is conservative. [From the 1970 HP catalog.]

Jeremy?


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 8:46 PM Jim Ford <james.ford@...> wrote:
Sposed to be 600 ohms, I think.? Yep, the needle moves with nothing
connected.? I bought this thing at the TRW swap meet back in 1992 or
1993.? I haven't used it much, but it did help me verify my own hearing
JNDs (Just Noticeable Differences) of 1-2 dB, the same with sinewave,
audio (music), and white noise.

Will check Zin shortly.

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 4/20/2020 8:40:39 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

>On 4/20/20 11:38 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
>>? Me, too.? I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it for
>>? some time.? On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle
>>? moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be
>>? stopped, that would be great.
>>
>>? Or is there something else wrong with mine?
>
>? ?With nothing connected?
>
>? ?Whats the input impedance of the 400E?
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
>
>--
>Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
>New Kensington, PA
>
>
>




--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: new File called App notes

 

All HP-400 AC voltmeters have 10 Megohms input impedance: the solid-state E/EL, F/FL, and GL, and the older hollow-state D, H, and L, plus rack versions of the latter three. The solid-state voltmeters have a range of 10 Hz to 10 MHz while the vacuum tube versions are limited to 4 MHz. As usual for HP, the frequency range is conservative. [From the 1970 HP catalog.]

Jeremy?


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 8:46 PM Jim Ford <james.ford@...> wrote:
Sposed to be 600 ohms, I think.? Yep, the needle moves with nothing
connected.? I bought this thing at the TRW swap meet back in 1992 or
1993.? I haven't used it much, but it did help me verify my own hearing
JNDs (Just Noticeable Differences) of 1-2 dB, the same with sinewave,
audio (music), and white noise.

Will check Zin shortly.

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 4/20/2020 8:40:39 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

>On 4/20/20 11:38 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
>>? Me, too.? I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it for
>>? some time.? On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle
>>? moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be
>>? stopped, that would be great.
>>
>>? Or is there something else wrong with mine?
>
>? ?With nothing connected?
>
>? ?Whats the input impedance of the 400E?
>
>? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
>
>--
>Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
>New Kensington, PA
>
>
>




--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: new File called App notes

 

Hmm. 600 ohms should be plenty low enough to keep it quiet at low
ranges. There may very well be something wrong there.

But if that input impedance spec were a megohm or more, well..

-Dave

On 4/20/20 11:46 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
Sposed to be 600 ohms, I think.? Yep, the needle moves with nothing
connected.? I bought this thing at the TRW swap meet back in 1992 or
1993.? I haven't used it much, but it did help me verify my own hearing
JNDs (Just Noticeable Differences) of 1-2 dB, the same with sinewave,
audio (music), and white noise.

Will check Zin shortly.

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 4/20/2020 8:40:39 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

On 4/20/20 11:38 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
?Me, too.? I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it
for
?some time.? On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle
?moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be
?stopped, that would be great.

?Or is there something else wrong with mine?
? With nothing connected?

? Whats the input impedance of the 400E?

??????????? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA




--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: HP8920B Power supply capacitors??

 

Hi, thanks for a lot of information.

I would like to know more about RT1: you say that is a 10 ohm NTC.But, the ID in one of sides is 0033. Do you now how I can get a similar one?

Thanks in advance.

Gabriel
Re: HP 400F low noise mods

 

Right, and silly me, I jumped on the wrong thread, or the right thread with the wrong subject.? Head-slap time!

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Jeremy Nichols" <jn6wfo@...>
Sent: 4/20/2020 8:45:56 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 400F low noise mods

Someone else is doing this mod; I¡¯m one of the followers hoping to put it in my 400EL.

Jeremy?


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 6:59 PM John Griessen <john@...> wrote:
On 4/20/20 9:50 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
?> I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
?> replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
?> inputs for BNCs

I'm interested to hear about the low noise mod you make and if it would fit into
a 400E or 400EL since they have BNC input already.



--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: HP 400F low noise mods

 

Someone else is doing this mod; I¡¯m one of the followers hoping to put it in my 400EL.

Jeremy?


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 6:59 PM John Griessen <john@...> wrote:
On 4/20/20 9:50 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
?> I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
?> replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
?> inputs for BNCs

I'm interested to hear about the low noise mod you make and if it would fit into
a 400E or 400EL since they have BNC input already.



--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: new File called App notes

 

Sposed to be 600 ohms, I think. Yep, the needle moves with nothing connected. I bought this thing at the TRW swap meet back in 1992 or 1993. I haven't used it much, but it did help me verify my own hearing JNDs (Just Noticeable Differences) of 1-2 dB, the same with sinewave, audio (music), and white noise.

Will check Zin shortly.

Jim

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 4/20/2020 8:40:39 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

On 4/20/20 11:38 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
Me, too. I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it for
some time. On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle
moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be
stopped, that would be great.

Or is there something else wrong with mine?
With nothing connected?

Whats the input impedance of the 400E?

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: new File called App notes

 

On 4/20/20 11:38 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
Me, too.? I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it for
some time.? On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle
moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be
stopped, that would be great.

Or is there something else wrong with mine?
With nothing connected?

Whats the input impedance of the 400E?

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: new File called App notes

 

Me, too. I have a 400E and just checked it after not having used it for some time. On the most sensitive range, -60 dB 0.001 V, the needle moves around a fair amount with open input BNC, and if that could be stopped, that would be great.

Or is there something else wrong with mine?

Thanks.

Jim Ford

------ Original Message ------
From: "John Griessen" <john@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 4/20/2020 6:57:50 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

On 4/20/20 9:50 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
inputs for BNCs
I'm interested to hear about the low noise mod you make and if it would fit into
a 400E or 400EL since they have BNC input already.
HP 400x AC voltmeter low-noise mods - was: new File called App notes

 

I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
inputs for BNCs

I'm interested to hear about the low noise mod you make and if it would fit into
a 400E or 400EL since they have BNC input already.

Sure, it'll fit bc it's nothing more -- at this point, in my mind --
than a simple part-for-part swap.

The BNC retrofit is a complete no brainer, complicated only by the need for a ground-isolated BNC readily available from Kings on eBay:



or thru Octopart:



where the -insane- prices are apparently what people expect to be paid. I think the guys a Verical missed their med' window.

I bought 100pcs NOS off eBay years back for about $US20.00.

Anyway, a $2.00 fix w/shoulder washers and your step drill is easily ghetto-d together and works just fine.

Do note that the 400x series went thru a lot of change ups over the many years and that in some the input JFET is a P-channel part while in others it's an N-channel. Both are available in 2nv/rtHz parts so we're home dry . . .

Bill
HP 400F low noise mods

 

On 4/20/20 9:50 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
inputs for BNCs
I'm interested to hear about the low noise mod you make and if it would fit into
a 400E or 400EL since they have BNC input already.
Re: new File called App notes

 

On 4/20/20 9:50 AM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
inputs for BNCs
I'm interested to hear about the low noise mod you make and if it would fit into
a 400E or 400EL since they have BNC input already.
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

On 4/20/20 6:31 PM, pianovt via groups.io wrote:
Thanks for the assist. I'll let you know if I find either of the
little bastards.

Dave McGuire,

I happen to know exactly who one of the two men is:

Ah-HA! Yes, THAT is the scumbag. I thought his drek was vomited upon
the world in the 1970s, seems it was later, in 1983.

At 80 years old, it hardly seems worth choking him now, though it sure
is nice to think about. I think it's enough to know exactly where he
will end up.

I have to wonder how many fruit baskets and holiday cards American
CEOs have sent to that guy since he validated their desired behaviors
and let them run roughshod over the long-standing social contracts of
corporations.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 11:57 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Thanks for the assist. I'll let you know if I find either of the
little bastards.
Dave McGuire,

I happen to know exactly who one of the two men is:



Vladan
Re: VXI documentation

 

On 4/20/20 7:09 AM, Andy ZL3AG via groups.io wrote:
I've being trying to hunt down VXI stuff and it comes up on the Google,
but points to web/ftp hosts that no longer exist. :^(
?? I use VXI a lot, and I have tons of VXI documentation in PDF format
for lots of different things.? Email me if you're looking for something
specific, or if you want to sync up documentation collections in some
way.
I started a dedicated vxi group at groups.io a while back and there's a
few members there but no action yet. There's a database of VXI modules,
incomplete but slowly getting there, and I just uploaded all the
Win95/NT VXI plug&play config files I've found (for VXI modules and
normal HP TE) there so people can get them if they need them.

Maybe another database of VXI documents could be an idea?
That would be good. I started such a thing about eight years ago,
using MediaWiki, but it was overrun by spam pretty quickly so I shut it
down. I had left it open for automatic creation of accounts, but there
were already bots that knew how to perform that interaction
automatically, and I built up several GBs worth of advertisements and
spam (damn suits!) in less than a day.

I would certainly do it differently now if I were to try again. It
seems clear that just throwing stuff up in files sections of groups.io
mailing lists is kinda silly, as it is then once again subject to
corporate whim.

I'm just gathering stuff together right now so I can hit the ground
running once the shack is complete - being in isolation has helped as I
trim pine trees first thing every day and then while the rest of the
family are dragging the branches around, I can sneak off and build the
shack uninterrupted. :^)
Excellent.

Trees and branches...I addressed that problem by purchasing a piece of
property with a building on it that has a footprint of exactly the same
square footage as the property. B-) Life is too short for lawn maintenance.

One item I'd love to obtain is an E1323A or E2441B preprocessor card so
I can sniff the VXI bus with my 16702B for the "interesting" modules
I've obtained that don't have any documentation. There's one on eBay but
they want US$100 for it, and add the international shipping it becomes
well over $200 of NZ dollars which is a bit much for me right now.
Yeah I've been wanting to do that too, but realistically the free time
to do it will not materialize. But clearly someone needs to start doing
this for some of the less-well-documented modules.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Problem with HP MMS 70000, USERLOCK ON

 

USERLOCK OFF par HPIB.
On Monday, April 20, 2020, 08:55:34 PM GMT+2, Pierre-Fran?ois (f5bqp_pfm) <pfmonet@...> wrote:


Hello,

After a long period of non use of my MMS 70k I decided to use it again to measure some NF with the 70875A DLP software.
A new calibration of the spectrum was done OK.
I loaded the 70875A DLP software and after some manipulation I realized I could not use anymore the software.
Don't know what I did but impossible to return to the spectrum functionalities.
When I try to preset the instrument (green button) or the Menu function I got USERLOCK ON and impossible anymore to use the instrument.
How to go to the USERLOCK OFF back again and/or to reset the instrument?
I'm really stucked on this situation with the impossibility to use it again.
Thanks for your help.


--
Pierre-Fran?ois, F5BQP
JN18AN
Re: VXI documentation, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

On 4/20/20 10:07 AM, garp6 wrote:
When able,? perhaps a " bit " at a time ;-)? would you be willing to
upload all of your VXI docs to theKO4BB's website ?
That's a lot of documentation. Most of the HP/Agilent/Keysight VXI
manuals that I have were downloaded from Keysight's web site, and the
Tektronix ones were obtained from Tektronix. Some of it has disappeared
from Keysight, but not much yet. Is it really practical to just start
bulk-uploading that stuff to KO4BB?

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

I had my day with optimizing "done" software once, back in
the late 70's. I was an intern with United States Railway
Association, the creators of Conrail. I was part of the effort
that was known as the "Historic Abandonment Act".

Attached to every single program used for data entry was a
silly looking polynomial equation that was used to calculate
a check code to verify that the surveyor's data form
identification numbers were entered correctly.

The equation was written in a way that kept burning my eyes
every time I saw it. It was so clearly an unrolled simple loop
that I changed it from a 10 line chain calculation into a 1 line
loop. The loop was short, simple, and easy to understand.

While I was patting myself on the back, my boss called me into
his area, and asked me why I did that?

After I got over the shock that he was watching me key in code,
I explained it to him, and he said something like, "Wow, that's
beautiful. I like that... Please don't do it anymore!"

What???

Don't do it anymore. I can see that what you did is simpler,
easy to do correctly, and hard to get wrong, but if it for
some weird compiler reason botches the calculation, it will be
all of our asses. Don't do it, just copy and paste the routine
we gave you... like everyone else does...

I got much more challenging programming work after that, and an
offer for a permanent job... But I was one year away from my
BSEE degree, so I politely declined the offer.

-Chuck Harris


Yes. It IS possible for a piece of software to actually be "done".
But young(er) programmers these days just don't think that way.

-Dave
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

On 4/20/20 4:01 PM, Toby wrote:
Yes. It IS possible for a piece of software to actually be "done".
But young(er) programmers these days just don't think that way.
Programmers are not the owners and they don't get to make such a judgment.

Go up the chain and ask everyone in between the owners and the
programmers whether their systems are "done" or "finished".
This is exactly the root cause of the many reasons why I do not use
commercial software if I can possibly avoid it. (which I almost always can)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

On 2020-04-20 3:29 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 4/20/20 3:21 PM, Dave Seiter wrote:
Part of this is, of course, due to the size and cost of available
memory.? Back then, software of any kind (usually) had to be compact and
elegant just in order to fit into the available space.? Both my high
school and JC instructors talked about the need for elegant and
efficient code.? Now, memory is so cheap and spaces so immense, that
code doesn't need to be well written.??
It DOES, though. I feel (and increasingly I think I'm alone in this!)
that inefficiency is inherently bad. Having lots of memory available
doesn't make code unnecessarily fat...laziness does.

I remember working with a IT guy about 7 years ago on a a fairly simple
program that formatted the output from one database so it could be read
by another database.? His code was thousands of lines, and at least 50%
were comments.? I couldn't follow what was going on even with the
comments.? When asked about it, he grinned sheepishly and said "yeah,
it's kind of a mess...".
Yuck!

The thing I really hate is when perfectly good, usable software gets
updated just to keep the coders employed.? They usually end up breaking
something or make it harder to use.? New features are not necessarily a
good thing!
Yes. It IS possible for a piece of software to actually be "done".
But young(er) programmers these days just don't think that way.
Programmers are not the owners and they don't get to make such a judgment.

Go up the chain and ask everyone in between the owners and the
programmers whether their systems are "done" or "finished".

--Toby


-Dave
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