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  1. HP-Agilent-Keysight-Equipment
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Date
Re: new File called App notes

 

Bill, would love to see what you do with your 400F, especially if I can copy it for my 400EL!?

I was also fortunate to be at HP Santa Clara for most of the 1970s ?(Division 02, the old ¡°Frequency and Time¡± division that moved down from Palo Alto in the 1960s). Those were indeed good days, when HP had more money than it knew what to do with and ¡°we need it¡± was sufficient justification for almost any purchase.?

Jeremy?

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 11:09 PM Bill Perkins <sales@...> wrote:
? ? ? ? I'm younger than you but I wish I'd been in northern CA for "The Bill
and Dave Show" years.

? ? ? ? I've read a number of books about HP through "The Era" and am filled
with admiration; all the moreso when I turn on a 45-50yo network
analyzer and it not only lights up, it meets spec!

? ? ? ? Being in audio and one who does a lot of measurement of microvolt noise
floors, the HP 400F AC voltmeter is a piece I like a lot.

? ? ? ? I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
inputs for BNCs and am about to replace the input JFETs with their about
80nv/rtHz equiv input noise for some some parts from Linear Integrated
that promise 2nv/rtHz and spec-wise look pretty much to be a drop in
replacement, amazingly.

? ? ? ? I'll advise when done, or beg help if I've done something dumb.

? ? ? ? Bill @ PEARL, Inc.


> As I remember and lived through (I am 77 years of age), HP was a company
> that innovated, invented and changed the testing industry. They treated
> their employees and customers with respect and were great educators, and
> made a great effort to educate all who were interested.
>
> As has been stated by others, much of their current management, as
> Keysight, doesn't even seem to know what business they are in, and
> really doesn't care.

? ? ? ? And more's the pity; all around . . .

> I am glad that I was around for the "golden years".
>
> Stuart K6YAZ
> West Hills, CA


--
Jeremy Nichols
6.
Re: part identification

 

Glenn,
1DC4-0903 is a pn given to special hybrids produced internally at HP? Cannot imagine there would be a cross from an 1820-XXXX (purchased parts from external vendors) to an internal hybrid.? For example, the DC/AC/OHM hybrid I designed for the 3468/78 meters contains two custom designed fineline resistor chips and a silicon chip all wirebonded together and was designated? 1QF7-0067.? ?The HP3421 uses a variation of that hybrid without the AC fineline resistor network as the 3421 does not have an AC function.

George Hnatiuk
Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi garp

?

Just a question in future proofing who owns the Ko4BB web site? and how will it be maintained

?

Regards Paul

?

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of garp6
Sent: 20 April 2020 15:41
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight

?

hi Walter,?

Good find !

What would be really good to have would be??all? of the HP / Agilent?

? ?CLIP's? ?or? ?the Component Level Information Package? ?.pdf's? ?manuals:

The? *best* place would be to have anyone who individually owns? any of these?
as paper manuals, to scan them and?

?upload them to the free Ko4BB web site,? for everyone to share !


rick

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Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight

 

hi Walter,?

Good find !

What would be really good to have would be??all? of the HP / Agilent?

? ?CLIP's? ?or? ?the Component Level Information Package? ?.pdf's? ?manuals:

The? *best* place would be to have anyone who individually owns? any of these?
as paper manuals, to scan them and?

?upload them to the free Ko4BB web site,? for everyone to share !


rick
Re: Application Note 122: EMI Measurement Procedure

 

Looks like I was too late to the party as andy in NZ has a copy.
My research told me the same as he wrote that this note 122 was written in 1968 and since pulled.
Seems to me there would not be much useful information in that note other than for historical reasons.
The mil spec is old and the equipment at the time is way below today's standards.

Would be interesting to see it once Andy finds time to scan and upload it.
You now have your marchinhg orders Andy.
George
Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight

walter shawlee
 

I was searching for a very hard to find hp manual (hp 5316B) which seems ot be literally nowhere when I stumbled on an odd repository foo manuals on the Keysight server. NO idea what the true purpose of this page is, and it is wickedly hard to find, but it certainly is useful, as it has manuals NOT on the main searchable index.



I hope that pasted link works, it's a long one...
files are in random order but cover everything from the 200CD to later 546xx late digital scope.
I hope this proves useful, it certainly helped me!

lots more items added to the stuff season page, and more hp items to come:

all the best,
walter walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
Re: VXI documentation, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

hi Dave's, & others;

When able,? perhaps a " bit " at a time ;-)? would you be willing to upload all of your VXI docs to the KO4BB's website ?

This would preserve the VXI for a long time to come !

thanks,
rick
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

I hardly think this began in modern times. While the idea that the one and only goal of a business is to maximize return on investment seems to be modern I think one can trace it back to the beginnings of human civilization.
?? For an interesting corporate example see:
<.>
?? I suspect that had Ford pushed this to federal court he would have won but he didn't.

On 4/19/2020 5:03 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 4/19/20 7:38 PM, Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:
I must say that I saw a pattern in my professional life.? Everywhere I
went, including the military, I was told that things were really nice a
while back, and I should have been there then.? Perhaps nostalgia isn't
what it used to be.
This didn't just happen at random. This, along with another major
problem, software bloat, can be traced to just about the same time and
the same type of attitude.

Sometime in the 1970s, I think it was, some clueless economics
professor in some ivory tower said something to the effect of "the sole
purpose of any corporation is to make money by any means possible," all
other considerations be damned. Suits all over the world took this as
if they'd just been released from some sort of prison (where many of
them arguably belong) and they went absolutely wild. It was then that
the decline of these corporations, and the rise of extreme levels of
sleaze at the executive level, began. Enron, Worldcom, etc. Crime no
longer need take place in dark alleys and crack houses, it moved to the
comfort of the boardroom! We all get screwed daily by the result of this.

Also sometime in the 1970s, another moron, probably related to the one
described above, said "programmer time is more valuable than processor
time". This similarly caused the laziest programmers to act as if
they'd be unchained, and the decline of computing efficiency, and caring
about same, began. This is why modern OSs require multi-GHz clock
speeds and billions of bytes of memory just to boot, much less get any
work done.

If I ever get my hands around the neck of either of these men, they
will have a difficult day.

-Dave
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL
Re: new File called App notes

 

Hi all,

several decades ago (aged 19), I bought a TEK 567 with the 3S76 and 3T77
and 6R1 plugins. Although it took me 3 weeks of work to make the unit
operable again, the explanations in the documentation were exceptionally
helpful, not to say educative.

The same happened a few years later,when I was able to score a HP 140
with a 1415 TDR plugin. The documentation was of such exceptional
quality, that I not only understood the principle of operation, but also
could restore this instrument to its former glory.

Ask me today about sampling, random or sequential, I think I learned my
lesson from these manuals and App Notes. My personal favourite is
AN-150, that helped me in my work designing part of the Hameg spectrum
analyzers.

Regards, Jochen DH6FAZ

Am 20.04.2020 um 14:00 schrieb Dave_G0WBX via groups.io:

Indeed.

The Tek manuals "Theory of operation" sections, in conjunction with the
full and well documented schematics, were a virtual college (or higher
level in some cases) course in instrumentation electronics.

Regards.

Dave G0WBX (Ex Tek' UK.)
Re: new File called App notes

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi all

?

I received a new Application note today unfortunately it dues not have a number so have called it April 2020

Put it in the file Application note ?Also speaking to

?

Morgan Levey Marketing and Communications Assistant Keysight Technologies

?

Work: 01189 274046 morgan.levey@...

?

About difficulties in downloading Application notes from the Keysight site

?

Regards Paul

?

?
Re: new File called App notes

 

In fact I'd go so far as to say that in some cases manufacturers take active design steps to make things non-repairable. :(

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of nigel adams via groups.io
Sent: 20 April 2020 13:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

I always loved Tek HP and Marconi Manuals, the quality of the writing and the exploded drawings ( all pre CAD of course) were superb.

Those days are gone - now it is replace module or throw it away and buy a new one.
Nothing is repairable these days - not designed for it. ;-(

Nigel Adams ¨C Marconi Instruments Heritage Collection
Re: new File called App notes

 

I always loved Tek HP and Marconi Manuals, the quality of the writing and the exploded drawings ( all pre CAD of course) were superb.

Those days are gone - now it is replace module or throw it away and buy a new one.
Nothing is repairable these days - not designed for it. ;-(

Nigel Adams ¨C Marconi Instruments Heritage Collection

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave_G0WBX via groups.io
Sent: 20 April 2020 13:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

Indeed.

The Tek manuals "Theory of operation" sections, in conjunction with the full and well documented schematics, were a virtual college (or higher level in some cases) course in instrumentation electronics.

Regards.

Dave G0WBX (Ex Tek' UK.)

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
Re: new File called App notes

 

Indeed.

The Tek manuals "Theory of operation" sections, in conjunction with the
full and well documented schematics, were a virtual college (or higher
level in some cases) course in instrumentation electronics.

Regards.

Dave G0WBX (Ex Tek' UK.)

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
Re: VXI documentation

 

On 20/04/20 5:40 am, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 4/18/20 8:10 PM, Andy ZL3AG via groups.io wrote:
I've being trying to hunt down VXI stuff and it comes up on the Google,
but points to web/ftp hosts that no longer exist. :^(
I use VXI a lot, and I have tons of VXI documentation in PDF format
for lots of different things. Email me if you're looking for something
specific, or if you want to sync up documentation collections in some way.
Thanks Dave!

I started a dedicated vxi group at groups.io a while back and there's a few members there but no action yet. There's a database of VXI modules, incomplete but slowly getting there, and I just uploaded all the Win95/NT VXI plug&play config files I've found (for VXI modules and normal HP TE) there so people can get them if they need them.

Maybe another database of VXI documents could be an idea?

I'm just gathering stuff together right now so I can hit the ground running once the shack is complete - being in isolation has helped as I trim pine trees first thing every day and then while the rest of the family are dragging the branches around, I can sneak off and build the shack uninterrupted. :^)

One item I'd love to obtain is an E1323A or E2441B preprocessor card so I can sniff the VXI bus with my 16702B for the "interesting" modules I've obtained that don't have any documentation. There's one on eBay but they want US$100 for it, and add the international shipping it becomes well over $200 of NZ dollars which is a bit much for me right now.

Cheers,

Andy
Re: HP 53310A - Why did I not know about this sooner?

 

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Personally I'd use the XMOS xCORE devices, with code written in xC.
?- rock solid *hard* realtime guarantees: the IDE specifies the *exact*
?? number of clock cycles the code will take. None of this "measure and
?? hope we've found the worst case" rubbish :)
?- FPGA-like I/O structures: 250mb/s per pin, SERDES, strobed, , etc 1-32
?? bit, I/O happens on specified clock cycle
?- up to 32 cores, 4000MIPS MCUs
?- *fun*, in a way that conventional MCUs aren't
?- easy: I had my first program executing correctly within half a day of
?? downloading the IDE
?- no errata that I've seen
?- mercifully brief and explicit documentation (because the abstractions
?? are good and well implemented)
?- buy them at Digikey
?- been available for 13 years, actively being developed and enhanced?

And most notably, the hardware, language and software tools were designed together as a whole. There are dozens of multicore designs, but the software is an afterthought - with little thought given to the hard real time and parallel processing requirements.

The XMOS team uses parallel processing concepts that have around for decades: Hoare's Communicating Sequential Processes (CSP), the Transputer, and xC is an updated Occam with additions for hard realtime I/O.

An example of what one medium-sized MCU can do in software:
?- input two 62.5Mb/s data streams and count the 0->1 transitions,
?- front panel i/o and control
?- communicate control and results over USB to a PC
guaranteed not to miss any edges.

Other example is generating/consuming 100Mb/s serial ethernet packets in software (but personally I think it better to use an internal ethernet peripheral)

A four page overview is at

Overview of the language and how to use it:
That's longer, but is beautifully written and pleasingly concise.




On 20/04/20 03:10, Kuba Ober wrote:

I imagine that pretty much all legacy HP displays can be emulated using a single chip and a few screenfulls of code, outputting straight to VGA or HDMI :) Parallax Propeller 2 is the magic sauce that makes it possible. It¡¯s quite an amazing design, done in the open (yeah, open source silicon with full commercial backing) and it¡¯s actually fun to program it. It was meant to ¡°mess with¡± - it¡¯s not like the usual ARM chips with a boatload of erratas and data sheets thousand pages long. You can do very meaningful things without leaving assembler, if you like that sort of a thing. Want to sample XY signals at 100Ms/s? You can. On each pair of I/O pins. Simultaneously :)

They are currently offering 2nd silicon revision engineering samples, and you can actually talk to the designer of the chip on the forums. Those samples work very well, and the ¡°errata¡± fits in a paragraph last I checked. I imagine that the production silicon won¡¯t have an errata. There¡¯s a whole bunch of people that used that design before it was available in silicon, so lots of kinks got straightened out long ago.

Also, it comes with a FORTH interpreter in ROM, with runtime library that actually supports the peripherals. What¡¯s not to love :)

Cheers, Kuba Ober

16 apr. 2020 kl. 2:04 em skrev Tam Hanna <tamhan@...>:

? Stay OFF the Danaher 57x series. My replacement for these is almost ready.

As for the 53310A: not sure if it pays. You would need to use an FPGA to harvest the digital data being farted out. I wanted to do it once, but never had the time. However, afaik, the video board on these units is a separate board (as per the late Jzon Geller), and some instructions in the service manual of the 53310A even give some data about the pinout.

Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA (emailing on a BlackBerry PRIV)

Enjoy electronics? Join 14k other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at

Am 16. April 2020 19:56:40 MESZ schrieb Bill E <solartron@...>:
That's something I've been thinking about for a while now. I have several instruments where I'd like to replace the CRT. I know there have been a few people in the past that have done some for specific instruments, but I don't know of a general solution. One would think that for many instruments, should be fairly easy. They usually used OEM CRT displays that had simple analog or pseudo-digital intensity signals, and standard or close-to-standard scan rates. But, for the older style oscopes where it was a classic deflection CRT with the text additions being done by vector graphics, whole different game.My 54540 really needs a new CRT, modern replacement would rock. I'll add it to my list. :)
_._
Re: new File called App notes

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Marconi did a good number of these too...

Fortunately the ones existing have been catalogued and archived.
Good luck with the HP ones.

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>
Sent: 19 April 2020 22:50:24
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
?
On 4/19/20 6:00 PM, Stuart Landau via groups.io wrote:
> Well written application notes are some of the best educational tools
> available; whether they are instrument specific or more general.
> ?
> I prize the General Radio, Boonton, Wiltron and Hewlett Packard app
> notes. They have been a source of a great deal of my practical education.

? Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen any Wiltron app notes.? Got any
pointers? (or maybe a tar file?)

???????? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes

 

Thanks for the assist. I'll let you know if I find either of the
little bastards.

-Dave

On 4/19/20 8:15 PM, Andy ZL3AG via groups.io wrote:

I'll hold their hands behind their backs, to make sure you get the job
done easily.

On 20/04/20 12:03 pm, Dave McGuire wrote:

?? If I ever get my hands around the neck of either of these men, they
will have a difficult day.

?????????????? -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Jacks added to 6623A System PSU

 

On 4/19/20 9:07 PM, Jared Cabot via groups.io wrote:
I have a 6644A, which is a little different, that I added front panel
binding posts to. I 3D printed a holder that sits inside to position the
binding posts correctly.
I also added a switch to select between internal sense connection or the
external sense binding posts.
That's you? Neat. I'm using your camera mount in my D6, and have
been wanting to do the Tek 222 battery pack upgrade.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: new File called App notes

 

I'm younger than you but I wish I'd been in northern CA for "The Bill and Dave Show" years.

I've read a number of books about HP through "The Era" and am filled with admiration; all the moreso when I turn on a 45-50yo network analyzer and it not only lights up, it meets spec!

Being in audio and one who does a lot of measurement of microvolt noise floors, the HP 400F AC voltmeter is a piece I like a lot.

I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana inputs for BNCs and am about to replace the input JFETs with their about 80nv/rtHz equiv input noise for some some parts from Linear Integrated that promise 2nv/rtHz and spec-wise look pretty much to be a drop in replacement, amazingly.

I'll advise when done, or beg help if I've done something dumb.

Bill @ PEARL, Inc.


As I remember and lived through (I am 77 years of age), HP was a company that innovated, invented and changed the testing industry. They treated their employees and customers with respect and were great educators, and made a great effort to educate all who were interested.
As has been stated by others, much of their current management, as Keysight, doesn't even seem to know what business they are in, and really doesn't care.
And more's the pity; all around . . .

I am glad that I was around for the "golden years".
Stuart K6YAZ
West Hills, CA
Re: new File called App notes

 

As I remember and lived through (I am 77 years of age), HP was a company that innovated, invented and changed the testing industry. They treated their employees and customers with respect and were great educators, and made a great effort to educate all who were interested.
?
As has been stated by others, much of their current management, as Keysight, doesn't even seem to know what business they are in, and really doesn't care.

I am glad that I was around for the "golden years".

Stuart K6YAZ
West Hills, CA
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