Configuring an 85301C test range using an 8530A and 83631B
I've been studying the Agilent 85301B/C configuration guide, 5967-6042E, with the aim of being able to set up an automated anechoic test range for the 2.4 & 5 GHz ISM bands.
My 8530A does not have option 005, so I can't use an 85370A position encoder, however, it doesn't seem to me that presents a significant obstacle. I should be able to hack together a controller and stepper motors for the small antennas I'd be playing with and run it all from a PC.
Figure 17 & 20 appear to suggest that with a directional coupler and an 8511A, I'll be good to go except for cables , antenna positioning system and the anechoic chamber.
Can anyone with experience with the 85301C configuration confirm this?
Thanks, Reg
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 09:00 AM, @0culus wrote:
I think that something else has broken...the C function was somewhat functional before, and now it is not. Both C and L, the needle remains below zero scale and there is no oscillator activity.
OK, this is getting ridiculous. Now it's "working" again. Almost makes me think there's something mechanical going on too. I hate finding mechanical issues...I have a Tek 7104 that had the resistor in the fan circuit loose and randomly shorting the fan circuit to ground. Took forever to find it after I noticed that moving the SMPS in and out of the case sometimes let the scope start.
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
I think that something else has broken...the C function was somewhat functional before, and now it is not. Both C and L, the needle remains below zero scale and there is no oscillator activity.
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
Couple of further notes:
- The signal at A1TP1/A1Q2 emitter disappears entirely in L or C - The frequency does not change no matter what range we're on - The signal actually is correct at 70 mVrms...I had forgotten to compensate the probe I am using for the 7A22 vertical amp after using it with a different vertical amp in my Tek 7904A.
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On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 08:41 AM, @0culus wrote:
Joel,
1) no worries 2) OK, I'm not sure how I didn't put 2+2 together on that but it makes perfect sense now. The 427A has a log scaled resistance scale! 3) A1TP1/A1Q2 emitter (in R mode, with a 1K resistor connected) shows a ~175 mVpp (~62 mVrms) clean sine @ 12.37 KHz.
Sean
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
Joel,
1) no worries 2) OK, I'm not sure how I didn't put 2+2 together on that but it makes perfect sense now. The 427A has a log scaled resistance scale! 3) A1TP1/A1Q2 emitter (in R mode, with a 1K resistor connected) shows a ~175 mVpp (~62 mVrms) clean sine @ 12.37 KHz.
Sean
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On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 05:46 AM, Joel Setton wrote:
Hello Sean,
I'm answering your questions out of sequence, but I'm sure you'll be able to make some sense out of this !
* I wrote about the emitter of A2Q2 but I meant A1Q2, I'm sorry for the typo. * The 4332 has linear scales, so it's normal for the ohmmeter function to "peg" the needle if the input is open-circuit. Of course, "infinite" is way above full-scale! * Since the ohm-meter is *somewhat* functional but reads a resistance value which is much too low, I believe there's something wrong with the oscillator. My 4332A puts out a 77mV signal at the INPUT terminal, a point where you're seeing only 12mV. Of course your mileage may vary, but I'd suggest we first look at the oscillator. It's described in the manual on page 4-3, paragraphs 4-11(a) and 4-11(b). Please probe the signal at A1 TP1 or the emitter of A1Q2, which is the oscillator output. Paragraph 4-11(b) says there should be 70mV across A1R37. Is the amplitude OK ?
If the amplitude is too low but the signal still looks like a clean sinewave, the next step will be to look at the rectifier A1IC2 and the voltage comparator A1IC3 which control the oscillator amplitude via A1Q1 (a FET which is operated as a variable resistance to control oscillator amplitude). For example, a fault around A1IC3 would cause an error in oscillator amplitude, similar to what you're seeing. But I'm thinking aloud here ...
So, please let me know what you see. And, just as a matter of personal curiosity, in which timezone are you ?
Sincerely,
Joel Setton
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
by the way, later you can download the V4.3 and V4.5 from Tony G depository (above) and update the software first to 4.3 and then to 4.5 for that you simply need to connect that CD drive to the IDE header again and put those upgrade files on a CD rom and then navigate to the CD drive in windows 98 and run the upgrade (forget what that HP manual says)
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:58 AM, <ujonsson@...> wrote:
Hi,? My loved 54810A died on me.? It is the oldest Gen 1 unit no VIN running 95 and it has not been upgraded.? I did read up on the recovery process from the HP documentation and I have the version 3.5 disc image.??I can open the ISO and I find the files listed below files.?
HP suggested that one use a printer port CD Drive to recover it. The Ghost.EXE wont run on my win10 machine.?I do have an XP machine I might get GHOST to run on but it is a laptop.?
Any suggestion?? Another option but at a $250 cost would be to buy a drive from ebay but with all the uncertainty I rather do my part of bring the economy to a standstill :-(? ? a few month ago I would just have shelled out the $250 but...
Here are the files on the ISO. GHOST.EXE hp548cd.inf
HP548RCV.GHO
Regards,
Ulf
by the way, when you say the scope suddenly died, what exactly do you mean? Are you even sure that it is the hard drive malfunction? there are many other possibilites if it is confirmed to be the hard drive, then as I mentioned before, you do not need any ghost explorer or win xp or anything . all you need is download a bootable win98 floppy from internet with CD ROM support (many available) and make a bootable floppy you can get a nice little USB floppy drive for $10-$15 from amazon or something if you need then you burn the 3.5 recovery iso image? on a CD ROM (even windows built in cd burner works) get the image from Tony G depository here then you need a 40 pin IDE cd drive to be connected to the motherboard directly (again very cheap to find or pull from old PC) get a compact flash (CF) card and CF card IDE adapter (40 pin) and insert it right on top of the IDE connector on the motherboard you can get the 5V supply for that from the nearby USB header on the motherboard boot the scope to floppy and navigate to the CD rom and run the ghost.exe and watch it for a while and you are done but first you need to make sure it is really the hard drive that has died
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
+1 for Amirb's suggestion of a CF IDE adaptor. I've done this on a number of instruments.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
Hi Rik,
That is because the format that they use for storing the likely compressed data is their own proprietary format.
dd can backup/copy a full disk, or a partition, or a file, it doesn't care. It can deal with errors in a variety of ways, and it can compress the results of its backup, and uncompress the backup while doing the restore.
Very versatile, and free with linux.
Ok, you don't like linux, you say?
That's fine, download an ISO of any linux live distribution, and boot into it from the CD/DVD, or thumbdrive, on your machine, and use dd to do your dirty work. Still free.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
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A ghost image is a backup (full disk or only the partition) made by Norton ghost a DOS later Windows application (Norton later Symantic), it uses a proprietary technology to back up the disk. You can't use dd to restore a ghost image.
-Rik
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [email protected] <HP-Agilent-Keysight- [email protected]> Namens Chuck Harris Verzonden: vrijdag 3 april 2020 15:22 Aan: [email protected] Onderwerp: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
dd simply copies the disk exactly as the data appears on the drive. It is used in forensics to clone drives from crime scenes as it makes an exact copy down to the partition tables, and bad block tables.
What is your definition of a ghost image?
I recall it to be an exact clone of the drive.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
You're right but dd won't do a ghost image.
-Rik
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
A ghost image is a backup (full disk or only the partition) made by Norton ghost a DOS later Windows application (Norton later Symantic), it uses a proprietary technology to back up the disk. You can't use dd to restore a ghost image.
-Rik
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Show quoted text
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [email protected] <HP-Agilent-Keysight- [email protected]> Namens Chuck Harris Verzonden: vrijdag 3 april 2020 15:22 Aan: [email protected] Onderwerp: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
dd simply copies the disk exactly as the data appears on the drive. It is used in forensics to clone drives from crime scenes as it makes an exact copy down to the partition tables, and bad block tables.
What is your definition of a ghost image?
I recall it to be an exact clone of the drive.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
You're right but dd won't do a ghost image.
-Rik
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
dd simply copies the disk exactly as the data appears on the drive. It is used in forensics to clone drives from crime scenes as it makes an exact copy down to the partition tables, and bad block tables.
What is your definition of a ghost image?
I recall it to be an exact clone of the drive.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You're right but dd won't do a ghost image.
-Rik
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
all you need is a win98 bootable floppy + a CD drive (either an external parallel port CD drive which is hard to find or an internal IDE one which is cheap) you boot to DOS and run the ghost from the CD drive.? I have done exactly this way to at least three 548xxA scopes...and get rid of the scope's hard drive. put a new compact flash (2GB or 4GB will be more than enough) with IDE adapter ($2-$4 from china)? you can go the SSD way but for such and old scope with win98, I wouldn't bother... ?
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When I was repairing the 3455 I checked Artek and did not see the 3455 manual so I used the very poor quality HP. Will have to recheck?Artek as there manuals are very good and very reasonable. I have purchased numbers of them. Sometimes everything doesn't have to be free. Its if you see honest value. Artek gives that value to me at least. Regards Paul WB8TSL
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
You're right but dd won't do a ghost image.
On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 2:46 PM +0200, "Chuck Harris" <cfharris@...> wrote:
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The utilities for cloning any drive come as the standard unix
dd in all linux and unix machines.
-Chuck Harris
ujonsson@... wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 02:26 PM, David DiGiacomo wrote:
>
>>
>> hard drive t
>
> Thanks!
>
> I think Ghost run under DOS. Was probably 25 years since I used it.? I never used it for cloning a drive that was not the primary drive but 25 is a long time... I might actually have an original program in a envelope somewhere.
>
> I tried to run the GHOST.EXE under vDOS but that did not work,
>
> I get CauseWay Error 07 : Unable to control A20 when trying Ghost under vDOS.? I will try to see if it can run on a XP machine.
>
> Ulf
>
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
The utilities for cloning any drive come as the standard unix dd in all linux and unix machines.
-Chuck Harris
ujonsson@... wrote:
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Show quoted text
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 02:26 PM, David DiGiacomo wrote:
hard drive t Thanks!
I think Ghost run under DOS. Was probably 25 years since I used it.? I never used it for cloning a drive that was not the primary drive but 25 is a long time... I might actually have an original program in a envelope somewhere.
I tried to run the GHOST.EXE under vDOS but that did not work,
I get CauseWay Error 07 : Unable to control A20 when trying Ghost under vDOS.? I will try to see if it can run on a XP machine.
Ulf
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
Hello Sean,
I'm answering your questions out of sequence, but I'm sure you'll be able to make some sense out of this !
* I wrote about the emitter of A2Q2 but I meant A1Q2, I'm sorry for the typo. * The 4332 has linear scales, so it's normal for the ohmmeter function to "peg" the needle if the input is open-circuit. Of course, "infinite" is way above full-scale! * Since the ohm-meter is *somewhat* functional but reads a resistance value which is much too low, I believe there's something wrong with the oscillator. My 4332A puts out a 77mV signal at the INPUT terminal, a point where you're seeing only 12mV. Of course your mileage may vary, but I'd suggest we first look at the oscillator. It's described in the manual on page 4-3, paragraphs 4-11(a) and 4-11(b). Please probe the signal at A1 TP1 or the emitter of A1Q2, which is the oscillator output. Paragraph 4-11(b) says there should be 70mV across A1R37. Is the amplitude OK ?
If the amplitude is too low but the signal still looks like a clean sinewave, the next step will be to look at the rectifier A1IC2 and the voltage comparator A1IC3 which control the oscillator amplitude via A1Q1 (a FET which is operated as a variable resistance to control oscillator amplitude). For example, a fault around A1IC3 would cause an error in oscillator amplitude, similar to what you're seeing. But I'm thinking aloud here ...
So, please let me know what you see. And, just as a matter of personal curiosity, in which timezone are you ?
Sincerely,
Joel Setton
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
A small search on the net will help you to find an USB bootable version of XP. Boot your system from USB stick and run ghost from there. ? -Rik ?
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Van: [email protected] < [email protected]> Namens ujonsson@... Verzonden: vrijdag 3 april 2020 6:26 Aan: [email protected]Onderwerp: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive? ? On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 06:46 PM, Glen Slick wrote: nd if you attach
Interesting... Yes, there are two IDE headers. Luckily I had a DVD unit from around 2000 and a cable but the un-lucky thing is that the IDE header on the motherboard have all pins populated... The IDE cable I found in my 2000 vintage machine has a missing hole to prevent it from going in backwards.? Not sure when that change was.? The first machine I built was in 98 and that had SCSI... There is a full 40 pin ribbon cable going over to a board and the hard drive connects to that.card.
It turned out that I don't have a XP machine that runs.? I tried a few versions of Ghost but no luck getting them to run.? I will look around for a old machine.? I did find a similar vintage hard drive. Its a bit larger than the original but from around 2000. I found it in a old USB hard drive.
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Re: 8510C questions and cabling
Hi Reg,
I am not familiar with the test sets you are using, so I was only telling about the sweeper.
Here is what I have on my system:
Display: 8510 Interconnect HPIB cable to Test set, and Sweeper. .........IF Display Interconnect to 85102B IF Display Interconnect(J2)
85102B: IF Display Interconnect(J2) to Display IF Display Interconnect .........Test Set Interconnect(J1) to 8514B Test Set Interconnect(J11) .........10MHz in from sweeper.
8514B: 8512 Sys BUS(J12) to Display and Sweeper (HPIB) .........85102B Test set Interconnect(J11) to 85102B .........8514B Test set Interconnect (J10) unused.
8640B: HPIB to Display and Test Set .........Sweep In from 85102B .........Stop Sweep from 85102B ---------10MHz to 8514B.
I have left off little things like the Extension jumpers on the test set, and the int/ext clock jumper on the sweeper... you should be able to figure them out.
-Chuck Harris
Reginald Beardsley via groups.io wrote:
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Chuck,
That is page 1-3 of the document I referenced in my post. Neither of my 851x A/B test sets has the source interface. However, I just noticed a note on that page that the source interface is only used with the 8516A. The figure is much too busy.
You don't mention the J10/J11 test set interconnect in your list. There is no display on the 83631B, so without connecting it to the 85101A & 85102A there is no way to get anything displayed.
Reg
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
I had the same problem with another machine. The pin
corresponding to the missing hole doesn't have any connection so
solution is easy, you can:
1. Cut the pin,not so easy and difficult to undo.
2. Use a small drill bit and make a hole in the connector. When
you finish you can use a a plastic plug to cover the hole and
restore the safety feature. Before making those special connectors
with the hole missing, many manufacturers used standard connectors
with the plastic plug.
Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 06:46 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
nd if you attach
Interesting... Yes, there are two IDE headers. Luckily I had a DVD
unit from around 2000 and a cable but the un-lucky thing is that
the IDE header on the motherboard have all pins populated... The
IDE cable I found in my 2000 vintage machine has a missing hole to
prevent it from going in backwards.? Not sure when that change
was.? The first machine I built was in 98 and that had SCSI...
There is a full 40 pin ribbon cable going over to a board and the
hard drive connects to that.card.
It turned out that I don't have a XP machine that runs.? I tried a
few versions of Ghost but no luck getting them to run.? I will
look around for a old machine.? I did find a similar vintage hard
drive. Its a bit larger than the original but from around 2000. I
found it in a old USB hard drive.
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Orin, I found it!? R14 is burned.? Diagram says 100 Ohms, and it measures around 4k and is all blackened.
I imagine it didn't burn by itself so now I have to see what took it out.? I am guessing Q8 is shorted but it could be Q7.? And maybe CR7 and CR8.
Well, looks like you?are getting closer.
CR7 and CR8 just clamp the amplifier output at TP4 to > -17V or so.? They are could be OK as you were seeing > -17V.
Q8 may well be shorted - what's the voltage at TP4 now?
Orin.
?
Now I have something I can deal with.
Bob
On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:22:43 PM PDT, Orin Eman < orin.eman@...> wrote:
R12?? Both sides.
Looking like it's U2 at the moment..., with Q7, Q8 next in line.? If the main amplifier is working correctly, either side of the diodes should be pretty much the same.
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