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Re: Upcoming Stuff Day event at Sphere Research

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Is it giving you a reason?

Steve




On Feb 29, 2020, at 2:39 PM, Dana Smith via Groups.Io <raidermc01@...> wrote:

?Can't register to purchase, bummer?

Re: Upcoming Stuff Day event at Sphere Research

 

Can't register to purchase, bummer?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:

And now it is all trashed.

Please never post anything from that stupid piece of junk -- it is buggy as
hell and turns everything it touches into turds.

Good.? I guess my phone and laptop computer automagically include the previous text.Yes, people who don't provide context are forgiven their minor iniquities.Thanks.JimSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> Date: 2/28/20 11:47 PM (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B On Sat, 29 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:> Thanks, Sergey.? I have updated my "wishlist" HP 8340 entry to add "best with > no options".>> BTW, do you see your own text below?? When I reply, I see the previous text > on my screen, and when I receive my own reply as posted to the group, it > contains the other text as well.? Therefore, I haven't made any effort to > copy text from previous posts.? But I've often wondered if others see the > previous text.? It bugs the crap out of me to see somebody else's "Yeah, I > agree" post, for example, with no context.Those people who post a single "Me too!" letters are mentally ill and it isa sin to insult them. Thou shalt forgive them; for they know not what theydo...Your quoting is fine; it is somebody else that screwed up earlier messagetext making it all one long line without breaks.>> Jim>> ------ Original Message ------> From: "Sergey Kubushyn" <ksi@...>> To: [email protected]> Sent: 2/28/2020 10:13:42 PM> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:>> >> I don't know who had all that message thread screwed up (guys, _PLEASE_>> setup proper quoting -- it is impossible to read) but as of 8340B I can >> tell>> that the best one is instrument without _ANY_ options.>> >> Unlike 99.9999% of other measurement equipment _EVERY_ option in 8340B is>> "Remove something" or "Make it worse" (moving connectors to the rear falls>> in the latter category.)>> >> There is no options in 8340B that would've added something or made it >> better>> than basic instrument without options.>> >>> Option 007 is relaxed phase noise, page 1-10.? I guess James Bond wasn't >>> concerned about phase noise!? 3 dB worse across the board except is the >>> same at 100 kHz offset (not surprising as that's probably the PN floor), >>> and 30 Hz offset not specified. Thanks, Bruce. JimSent from my Verizon, >>> Samsung Galaxy smartphone>>> -------- Original message --------From: Bruce <bruce@...> Date: >>> 2/28/20? 4:43 PM? (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B Some >>> of the 8340 series that were used with the 8510C have more phase? noise >>> than the "normal" unit - I think this is the Opt 5 version - be? careful >>> and try to avoid Opt 5 if you can - check the documentation to? be sure my >>> mmemory is correct.Quoting Jim Ford <james.ford@...>:> Interesting, >>> Vladan, that the 8340/8341 synths share circuitry with? > the 8566 spec >>> an.? I figured the bottom part of the 8566 was pretty? > much just a >>> synthesized sweeper anyway.? I don't have an 8340 or? > 8341 (yet), but >>> there are a few of the lower frequency versions in? > one of the labs at >>> work, and they do look like the bottom of the? > 8566.? The sloped bottom >>> part of the front panel gives them away.? I? > believe the standalone >>> synths are 5 rack units, though, vs. 3 or 4? > for the bottom of the >>> 8566.>> Jim>> ------ Original Message ------> From: "pianovt via >>> Groups.Io" <pianovt@...>> To: >>> [email protected]> Sent: 2/28/2020 1:20:20 PM> >>> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B>>> >>> Here is a brief history. The 8340A was designed in parallel with? >> the >>> 8510A and was intended for use with it. There was no 8360? >> series back >>> then. With time, the 8510 A became the 8510B and at? >> some point the >>> 8340A? become a "B" too. The biggest difference? >> between the A and B >>> versions of the two instruments was the change? >> from a HP proprietary >>> processor to the 68000. Eventually, the 8510B? >> was reworked into the >>> 8510C. While this was going on, a new? >> sweeping syntehsizerseries? was >>> released, the 8360.>>>> The 8360 series had some models which were >>> stripped down,? >> specifically for use with the 8510. Stripped down means >>> they didn't? >> have a standard front panel user interface. They were >>> meant to? >> interact with the 8510 via the system bus only. That kept the >>> cost? >> down for customers who didn't need a stand-alone sweeper or? >> >>> synthesizer.>>>> In the meantime, a lower cost version of the 8340 was >>> introduced,? >> the 8341. It was a 20 GHz synthesizer. However, if you are >>> willing? >> to study the differences and do some work late at night, you >>> can? >> probably make the 8341 do much of what the 8340 does and get it to >>> >> work to 26.5 GHz. The 8341 will work with the 8510 system, but I am? >> >>> not sure which firmware works with what.>>>> The 8340/41 is very heavy, >>> and it has a jet engine style cooling? >> fan. Inside, the frequency >>> synthesis circuits are pretty much the? >> same as what was used in the >>> 8566 spectrum analyzer, but there is? >> also an output section with a >>> multiplier, leveling circuits,? >> modulation etc., in other words all the >>> stuff that's needed to get? >> the signal out. The upside is, many 8566 LO >>> parts can be had for? >> next to nothing, so spare parts are largely >>> available for the? >> synthesizer portion. Documentation is also >>> available. Not so much? >> for the 8360. As far as I know, the alignment >>> and calibration? >> software for the 8360 has not been released to the >>> general public? >> either.>>>> Vladan>>>>>> >> --->> *>> *? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *>> *? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *>> *>> >> >> >>> >>---**? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? **? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? **
---
*
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
*
Re: HP3336b

 

Tim,

?

Don¡¯t have much to go by in a few different 3336 manuals in my possession (looking through PDF files with incomplete sections ¨C don¡¯t have my paper versions handy at the moment) except for a terse statement in manual part number 03336-90000 page 3-2 showing front panel functions & displays.

?

¡°Alphanumeric Display: Displays the values of the operating parameters, programming error codes, HP-IB address and OSC FAIL if the internal oscillator is not operating properly¡±

?

There are a multitude of oscillators in this unit but I am assuming the error message relates to the main reference oscillator of which there can either be a lesser accurate type or the high-stability option oscillator.? Does your unit have Option 004 (high-stability oscillator)?? Either way I would hang a scope on the oscillator output and watch it when turning the unit on.

?

Greg
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

Pete Manfre
 

But I will sell it for the same?$5500?with out all those add on's.? No 8530a, no adapters,? std LO cable,? no? manuals,? no rack,? etc.?

Pete wa2odo



On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 1:26 PM Jeff Kruth via Groups.Io <kmec=[email protected]> wrote:
Price seems to be going up.....

Wasnt this 5500 a little while ago?
8340B not 5340B.

Jeff
In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­

Pics available¡­?

Sorry for bandwidth¡­


Pete wa2odo


?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

Hi Vladan,

Not true, the Service Support Software P/N 0860-10001 for the 8360 series and the Component Level Repair manuals P/N 08360-90077 exist but very herd to find.

73's
--
Pierre-Fran?ois, F5BQP
JN18AN
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

Well, it is true that accessories are hard to find and can be very pricey, so makes it a different deal, of course. Particularly adapters to 2.4.

Jeff
In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:50:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

Forgot ¡­ and adapters from the 2.4mm to 2.92 for the test set.?

P

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 1:38 PM Pete Manfre via Groups.Io <pmanfre=[email protected]> wrote:

Yes¡­ added many things to it¡­ additionally¡­ the 8530a includes it still has the both pieces of the 8510c,? new display installed,? paper manual set,? an original hp rack,? upgraded LO cable.? Besides people are very cheap¡­ and always offer less... So negotiation room.? ?Besides i really do not care if sold¡­ just so nice¡­ ?.? But I don¡¯t use it.?

P

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 1:26 PM Jeff Kruth via Groups.Io <kmec=[email protected]> wrote:
Price seems to be going up.....

Wasnt this 5500 a little while ago?
8340B not 5340B.

Jeff
In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­

Pics available¡­

Sorry for bandwidth¡­


Pete wa2odo


?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

Pete Manfre
 

Forgot ¡­ and adapters from the 2.4mm to 2.92 for the test set.?

P

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 1:38 PM Pete Manfre via Groups.Io <pmanfre=[email protected]> wrote:
Yes¡­ added many things to it¡­ additionally¡­ the 8530a includes it still has the both pieces of the 8510c,? new display installed,? paper manual set,? an original hp rack,? upgraded LO cable.? Besides people are very cheap¡­ and always offer less... So negotiation room.? ?Besides i really do not care if sold¡­ just so nice¡­ ?.? But I don¡¯t use it.?

P

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 1:26 PM Jeff Kruth via Groups.Io <kmec=[email protected]> wrote:
Price seems to be going up.....

Wasnt this 5500 a little while ago?
8340B not 5340B.

Jeff
In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­

Pics available¡­?

Sorry for bandwidth¡­


Pete wa2odo


?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

Pete Manfre
 

As they say on¡­ the Big Bang Theory¡­ here we go..?

Make you know very well why you received them¡­ your fault.? ?Ended¡­ here.?

P

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 1:32 PM Mike Feher <n4fs@...> wrote:

Hi Jeff ¨C

?

You can expect a nasty email from him shortly. I got a bunch not long ago. 73 ¨C Mike

?

Mike B. Feher, N4FS

89 Arnold Blvd.

Howell NJ 07731

848-245-9115

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jeff Kruth via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

?

Price seems to be going up.....

Wasnt this 5500 a little while ago?

8340B not 5340B.

?

Jeff

In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

?

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­

?

Pics available¡­?

?

Sorry for bandwidth¡­

?

?

Pete wa2odo

?

?

?

?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

Pete Manfre
 

Yes¡­ added many things to it¡­ additionally¡­ the 8530a includes it still has the both pieces of the 8510c,? new display installed,? paper manual set,? an original hp rack,? upgraded LO cable.? Besides people are very cheap¡­ and always offer less... So negotiation room.? ?Besides i really do not care if sold¡­ just so nice¡­ ?.? But I don¡¯t use it.?

P

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 1:26 PM Jeff Kruth via Groups.Io <kmec=[email protected]> wrote:
Price seems to be going up.....

Wasnt this 5500 a little while ago?
8340B not 5340B.

Jeff
In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­

Pics available¡­?

Sorry for bandwidth¡­


Pete wa2odo


?
Re: Upcoming Stuff Day event at Sphere Research

 

I am having difficulty registering with Keysight.
Apparently its required to buy parts
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Jeff ¨C

?

You can expect a nasty email from him shortly. I got a bunch not long ago. 73 ¨C Mike

?

Mike B. Feher, N4FS

89 Arnold Blvd.

Howell NJ 07731

848-245-9115

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jeff Kruth via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

?

Price seems to be going up.....

Wasnt this 5500 a little while ago?

8340B not 5340B.

?

Jeff

In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

?

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­

?

Pics available¡­?

?

Sorry for bandwidth¡­

?

?

Pete wa2odo

?

?

?

?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

Price seems to be going up.....

Wasnt this 5500 a little while ago?
8340B not 5340B.

Jeff
In a message dated 2/29/2020 1:01:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pmanfre@... writes:

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­

Pics available¡­?

Sorry for bandwidth¡­


Pete wa2odo


?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks, Steve.? More good info.? Jim



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Steve - Home <steve-krull@...>
Date: 2/29/20 6:42 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

If you get an 8340B with the options that provided rear panel output and no attenuator it was probably from an ATE system or 8510 system. The attenuators are commonly available on eBay but the special bracket for the front panel RF output rarely appears. I lucked out and got one. Addition of the attenuator requires changes to the stored configuration/calibration constants.
Inside the left side panel, near the rear of the 8340, is a pocket that should have a printed listing of the configuration and calibration constants for your serial number. If that list is missing, I¡¯d recommend resurrecting an old 2225A printer, grab the service manual, and print a listing before doing anything else.
It¡¯s not a difficult conversion unless you have to make the odd-shaped bracket for the connector.

Steve
WB0DBS



> On Feb 29, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> wrote:
>
> ?On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:
>
> I don't know who had all that message thread screwed up (guys, _PLEASE_
> setup proper quoting -- it is impossible to read) but as of 8340B I can tell
> that the best one is instrument without _ANY_ options.
>
> Unlike 99.9999% of other measurement equipment _EVERY_ option in 8340B is
> "Remove something" or "Make it worse" (moving connectors to the rear falls
> in the latter category.)
>
> There is no options in 8340B that would've added something or made it better
> than basic instrument without options.
>
>> Option 007 is relaxed phase noise, page 1-10.? I guess James Bond wasn't concerned about phase noise!? 3 dB worse across the board except is the same at 100 kHz offset (not surprising as that's probably the PN floor), and 30 Hz offset not specified. Thanks, Bruce. JimSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>> -------- Original message --------From: Bruce <bruce@...> Date: 2/28/20? 4:43 PM? (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B Some of the 8340 series that were used with the 8510C have more phase? noise than the "normal" unit - I think this is the Opt 5 version - be? careful and try to avoid Opt 5 if you can - check the documentation to? be sure my mmemory is correct.Quoting Jim Ford <james.ford@...>:> Interesting, Vladan, that the 8340/8341 synths share circuitry with? > the 8566 spec an.? I figured the bottom part of the 8566 was pretty? > much just a synthesized sweeper anyway.? I don't have an 8340 or? > 8341 (yet), but there are a few of the lower frequency versions in? > one of the labs at work, and they do look like the bottom of the? > 8566.? The sloped bottom part of the front panel gives them away.? I? > believe the standalone synths are 5 rack units, though, vs. 3 or 4? > for the bottom of the 8566.>> Jim>> ------ Original Message ------> From: "pianovt via Groups.Io" <pianovt@...>> To: [email protected]> Sent: 2/28/2020 1:20:20 PM> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B>>> Here is a brief history. The 8340A was designed in parallel with? >> the 8510A and was intended for use with it. There was no 8360? >> series back then. With time, the 8510 A became the 8510B and at? >> some point the 8340A? become a "B" too. The biggest difference? >> between the A and B versions of the two instruments was the change? >> from a HP proprietary processor to the 68000. Eventually, the 8510B? >> was reworked into the 8510C. While this was going on, a new? >> sweeping syntehsizerseries? was released, the 8360.>>>> The 8360 series had some models which were stripped down,? >> specifically for use with the 8510. Stripped down means they didn't? >> have a standard front panel user interface. They were meant to? >> interact with the 8510 via the system bus only. That kept the cost? >> down for customers who didn't need a stand-alone sweeper or? >> synthesizer.>>>> In the meantime, a lower cost version of the 8340 was introduced,? >> the 8341. It was a 20 GHz synthesizer. However, if you are willing? >> to study the differences and do some work late at night, you can? >> probably make the 8341 do much of what the 8340 does and get it to? >> work to 26.5 GHz. The 8341 will work with the 8510 system, but I am? >> not sure which firmware works with what.>>>> The 8340/41 is very heavy, and it has a jet engine style cooling? >> fan. Inside, the frequency synthesis circuits are pretty much the? >> same as what was used in the 8566 spectrum analyzer, but there is? >> also an output section with a multiplier, leveling circuits,? >> modulation etc., in other words all the stuff that's needed to get? >> the signal out. The upside is, many 8566 LO parts can be had for? >> next to nothing, so spare parts are largely available for the? >> synthesizer portion. Documentation is also available. Not so much? >> for the 8360. As far as I know, the alignment and calibration? >> software for the 8360 has not been released to the general public? >> either.>>>> Vladan>>>>
>
> ---
> *
> *? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
> *? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
> *
>
>
>




Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

Pete Manfre
 

With all this talk about 8510c systems I would like to remind all that I have available a 40GHz 8510c system available for sale.? ?It consists of¡­ 8510c, 8530a, 8516a, 5340b, all interconnect cables,? hp rack,? paper manuals,? (hp test port cables (the real expensive ones,? and cal kit available¡­ additional cost).? Everything tested and working? as it should.? Pick up,? so it can be demo'd.? $7100¡­ additional for cal kit and test port cables¡­?

Pics available¡­??

Sorry for bandwidth¡­?

Pete wa2odo?
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks, jfphp.? Good information.? Jim?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "jfphp via Groups.Io" <jfphp@...>
Date: 2/29/20 5:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

834XX is a boxed synthesized 83592/5X where all aligments are made with potentiometers. 836XXX is a DAC based system with all aligments made with the RPG on the front panel. Beware of the various 836XXX : every piece is different with/out tracking filter/amplifier ; pulse modulator with or without amplifier... The 836XXX without front panel --devoted to the 8510X-- are poor signal generators (no tracking filter, relaxed specs and RF deck very different from a standard on). In a 8510X system the only difference is a better amplitude stability with time from the 836XXX and a quicker step sweep. Keep in mind the sp¨¦cifications about the temperature and the amplitude accuracy : it is ridiculous to mesure a 110 db step attenuator with a 8510X and give data to 1/10th of db. Use a 8902A opt 050 with downconverter
On Saturday, February 29, 2020, 01:49:45 PM GMT+1, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:


When Jim Ford replies from his Samsung phone, he wipes out
all of the formatting.? When he replies from his Windows box,
(em client) formatting is preserved.

His reply was the first to have destroyed the formatting.

-Chuck Harris

Sergey Kubushyn wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Sergey.? I have updated my "wishlist" HP 8340 entry to add "best with no
>> options".
>>
>> BTW, do you see your own text below?? When I reply, I see the previous text on my
>> screen, and when I receive my own reply as posted to the group, it contains the
>> other text as well.? Therefore, I haven't made any effort to copy text from
>> previous posts.? But I've often wondered if others see the previous text.? It bugs
>> the crap out of me to see somebody else's "Yeah, I agree" post, for example, with
>> no context.
>
> Those people who post a single "Me too!" letters are mentally ill and it is
> a sin to insult them. Thou shalt forgive them; for they know not what they
> do...
>
> Your quoting is fine; it is somebody else that screwed up earlier message
> text making it all one long line without breaks.
>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Sergey Kubushyn" <ksi@...>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: 2/28/2020 10:13:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B
>>
>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know who had all that message thread screwed up (guys, _PLEASE_
>>> setup proper quoting -- it is impossible to read) but as of 8340B I can tell
>>> that the best one is instrument without _ANY_ options.
>>>
>>> Unlike 99.9999% of other measurement equipment _EVERY_ option in 8340B is
>>> "Remove something" or "Make it worse" (moving connectors to the rear falls
>>> in the latter category.)
>>>
>>> There is no options in 8340B that would've added something or made it better
>>> than basic instrument without options.
>>>
>>>> Option 007 is relaxed phase noise, page 1-10.? I guess James Bond wasn't
>>>> concerned about phase noise!? 3 dB worse across the board except is the same at
>>>> 100 kHz offset (not surprising as that's probably the PN floor), and 30 Hz offset
>>>> not specified. Thanks, Bruce. JimSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>>> -------- Original message --------From: Bruce <bruce@...> Date: 2/28/20?
>>>> 4:43 PM? (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re:
>>>> [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B Some of the 8340 series
>>>> that were used with the 8510C have more phase? noise than the "normal" unit - I
>>>> think this is the Opt 5 version - be? careful and try to avoid Opt 5 if you can -
>>>> check the documentation to? be sure my mmemory is correct.Quoting Jim Ford
>>>> <james.ford@...>:> Interesting, Vladan, that the 8340/8341 synths share
>>>> circuitry with? > the 8566 spec an.? I figured the bottom part of the 8566 was
>>>> pretty? > much just a synthesized sweeper anyway.? I don't have an 8340 or? >
>>>> 8341 (yet), but there are a few of the lower frequency versions in? > one of the
>>>> labs at work, and they do look like the bottom of the? > 8566.? The sloped bottom
>>>> part of the front panel gives them away.? I? > believe the standalone synths are
>>>> 5 rack units, though, vs. 3 or 4? > for the bottom of the 8566.>> Jim>> ------
>>>> Original Message ------> From: "pianovt via Groups.Io"
>>>> <pianovt=[email protected]>> To: [email protected]> Sent:
>>>> 2/28/2020 1:20:20 PM> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B
>>>> vs 83631B>>> Here is a brief history. The 8340A was designed in parallel with? >>
>>>> the 8510A and was intended for use with it. There was no 8360? >> series back
>>>> then. With time, the 8510 A became the 8510B and at? >> some point the 8340A?
>>>> become a "B" too. The biggest difference? >> between the A and B versions of the
>>>> two instruments was the change? >> from a HP proprietary processor to the 68000.
>>>> Eventually, the 8510B? >> was reworked into the 8510C. While this was going on, a
>>>> new? >> sweeping syntehsizerseries? was released, the 8360.>>>> The 8360 series
>>>> had some models which were stripped down,? >> specifically for use with the 8510.
>>>> Stripped down means they didn't? >> have a standard front panel user interface.
>>>> They were meant to? >> interact with the 8510 via the system bus only. That kept
>>>> the cost? >> down for customers who didn't need a stand-alone sweeper or? >>
>>>> synthesizer.>>>> In the meantime, a lower cost version of the 8340 was
>>>> introduced,? >> the 8341. It was a 20 GHz synthesizer. However, if you are
>>>> willing? >> to study the differences and do some work late at night, you can? >>
>>>> probably make the 8341 do much of what the 8340 does and get it to >> work to
>>>> 26.5 GHz. The 8341 will work with the 8510 system, but I am? >> not sure which
>>>> firmware works with what.>>>> The 8340/41 is very heavy, and it has a jet engine
>>>> style cooling? >> fan. Inside, the frequency synthesis circuits are pretty much
>>>> the? >> same as what was used in the 8566 spectrum analyzer, but there is? >>
>>>> also an output section with a multiplier, leveling circuits,? >> modulation etc.,
>>>> in other words all the stuff that's needed to get? >> the signal out. The upside
>>>> is, many 8566 LO parts can be had for? >> next to nothing, so spare parts are
>>>> largely available for the? >> synthesizer portion. Documentation is also
>>>> available. Not so much? >> for the 8360. As far as I know, the alignment and
>>>> calibration? >> software for the 8360 has not been released to the general
>>>> public? >> either.>>>> Vladan>>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> *
>>> *? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
>>> *? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---
> *
> *? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
> *? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
> *
>
>
>
>
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Good to know, Chuck.? I will keep my replies from the phone brief.? As to the quoted text getting deformatted, I don't think I can do anything about that.?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Date: 2/29/20 4:49 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

When Jim Ford replies from his Samsung phone, he wipes out
all of the formatting.? When he replies from his Windows box,
(em client) formatting is preserved.

His reply was the first to have destroyed the formatting.

-Chuck Harris

Sergey Kubushyn wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Sergey.? I have updated my "wishlist" HP 8340 entry to add "best with no
>> options".
>>
>> BTW, do you see your own text below?? When I reply, I see the previous text on my
>> screen, and when I receive my own reply as posted to the group, it contains the
>> other text as well.? Therefore, I haven't made any effort to copy text from
>> previous posts.? But I've often wondered if others see the previous text.? It bugs
>> the crap out of me to see somebody else's "Yeah, I agree" post, for example, with
>> no context.
>
> Those people who post a single "Me too!" letters are mentally ill and it is
> a sin to insult them. Thou shalt forgive them; for they know not what they
> do...
>
> Your quoting is fine; it is somebody else that screwed up earlier message
> text making it all one long line without breaks.
>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Sergey Kubushyn" <ksi@...>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: 2/28/2020 10:13:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B
>>
>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know who had all that message thread screwed up (guys, _PLEASE_
>>> setup proper quoting -- it is impossible to read) but as of 8340B I can tell
>>> that the best one is instrument without _ANY_ options.
>>>
>>> Unlike 99.9999% of other measurement equipment _EVERY_ option in 8340B is
>>> "Remove something" or "Make it worse" (moving connectors to the rear falls
>>> in the latter category.)
>>>
>>> There is no options in 8340B that would've added something or made it better
>>> than basic instrument without options.
>>>
>>>> Option 007 is relaxed phase noise, page 1-10.? I guess James Bond wasn't
>>>> concerned about phase noise!? 3 dB worse across the board except is the same at
>>>> 100 kHz offset (not surprising as that's probably the PN floor), and 30 Hz offset
>>>> not specified. Thanks, Bruce. JimSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>>> -------- Original message --------From: Bruce <bruce@...> Date: 2/28/20?
>>>> 4:43 PM? (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re:
>>>> [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B Some of the 8340 series
>>>> that were used with the 8510C have more phase? noise than the "normal" unit - I
>>>> think this is the Opt 5 version - be? careful and try to avoid Opt 5 if you can -
>>>> check the documentation to? be sure my mmemory is correct.Quoting Jim Ford
>>>> <james.ford@...>:> Interesting, Vladan, that the 8340/8341 synths share
>>>> circuitry with? > the 8566 spec an.? I figured the bottom part of the 8566 was
>>>> pretty? > much just a synthesized sweeper anyway.? I don't have an 8340 or? >
>>>> 8341 (yet), but there are a few of the lower frequency versions in? > one of the
>>>> labs at work, and they do look like the bottom of the? > 8566.? The sloped bottom
>>>> part of the front panel gives them away.? I? > believe the standalone synths are
>>>> 5 rack units, though, vs. 3 or 4? > for the bottom of the 8566.>> Jim>> ------
>>>> Original Message ------> From: "pianovt via Groups.Io"
>>>> <pianovt@...>> To: [email protected]> Sent:
>>>> 2/28/2020 1:20:20 PM> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B
>>>> vs 83631B>>> Here is a brief history. The 8340A was designed in parallel with? >>
>>>> the 8510A and was intended for use with it. There was no 8360? >> series back
>>>> then. With time, the 8510 A became the 8510B and at? >> some point the 8340A?
>>>> become a "B" too. The biggest difference? >> between the A and B versions of the
>>>> two instruments was the change? >> from a HP proprietary processor to the 68000.
>>>> Eventually, the 8510B? >> was reworked into the 8510C. While this was going on, a
>>>> new? >> sweeping syntehsizerseries? was released, the 8360.>>>> The 8360 series
>>>> had some models which were stripped down,? >> specifically for use with the 8510.
>>>> Stripped down means they didn't? >> have a standard front panel user interface.
>>>> They were meant to? >> interact with the 8510 via the system bus only. That kept
>>>> the cost? >> down for customers who didn't need a stand-alone sweeper or? >>
>>>> synthesizer.>>>> In the meantime, a lower cost version of the 8340 was
>>>> introduced,? >> the 8341. It was a 20 GHz synthesizer. However, if you are
>>>> willing? >> to study the differences and do some work late at night, you can? >>
>>>> probably make the 8341 do much of what the 8340 does and get it to >> work to
>>>> 26.5 GHz. The 8341 will work with the 8510 system, but I am? >> not sure which
>>>> firmware works with what.>>>> The 8340/41 is very heavy, and it has a jet engine
>>>> style cooling? >> fan. Inside, the frequency synthesis circuits are pretty much
>>>> the? >> same as what was used in the 8566 spectrum analyzer, but there is? >>
>>>> also an output section with a multiplier, leveling circuits,? >> modulation etc.,
>>>> in other words all the stuff that's needed to get? >> the signal out. The upside
>>>> is, many 8566 LO parts can be had for? >> next to nothing, so spare parts are
>>>> largely available for the? >> synthesizer portion. Documentation is also
>>>> available. Not so much? >> for the 8360. As far as I know, the alignment and
>>>> calibration? >> software for the 8360 has not been released to the general
>>>> public? >> either.>>>> Vladan>>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> *
>>> *? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
>>> *? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---
> *
> *? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
> *? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
> *
>
>
>
>
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Good.? I guess my phone and laptop computer automagically include the previous text.

Yes, people who don't provide context are forgiven their minor iniquities.

Thanks.

Jim



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...>
Date: 2/28/20 11:47 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:

> Thanks, Sergey.? I have updated my "wishlist" HP 8340 entry to add "best with
> no options".
>
> BTW, do you see your own text below?? When I reply, I see the previous text
> on my screen, and when I receive my own reply as posted to the group, it
> contains the other text as well.? Therefore, I haven't made any effort to
> copy text from previous posts.? But I've often wondered if others see the
> previous text.? It bugs the crap out of me to see somebody else's "Yeah, I
> agree" post, for example, with no context.

Those people who post a single "Me too!" letters are mentally ill and it is
a sin to insult them. Thou shalt forgive them; for they know not what they
do...

Your quoting is fine; it is somebody else that screwed up earlier message
text making it all one long line without breaks.

>
> Jim
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Sergey Kubushyn" <ksi@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: 2/28/2020 10:13:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B
>
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, Jim Ford wrote:
>>
>> I don't know who had all that message thread screwed up (guys, _PLEASE_
>> setup proper quoting -- it is impossible to read) but as of 8340B I can
>> tell
>> that the best one is instrument without _ANY_ options.
>>
>> Unlike 99.9999% of other measurement equipment _EVERY_ option in 8340B is
>> "Remove something" or "Make it worse" (moving connectors to the rear falls
>> in the latter category.)
>>
>> There is no options in 8340B that would've added something or made it
>> better
>> than basic instrument without options.
>>
>>> Option 007 is relaxed phase noise, page 1-10.? I guess James Bond wasn't
>>> concerned about phase noise!? 3 dB worse across the board except is the
>>> same at 100 kHz offset (not surprising as that's probably the PN floor),
>>> and 30 Hz offset not specified. Thanks, Bruce. JimSent from my Verizon,
>>> Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>> -------- Original message --------From: Bruce <bruce@...> Date:
>>> 2/28/20? 4:43 PM? (GMT-08:00) To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B Some
>>> of the 8340 series that were used with the 8510C have more phase? noise
>>> than the "normal" unit - I think this is the Opt 5 version - be? careful
>>> and try to avoid Opt 5 if you can - check the documentation to? be sure my
>>> mmemory is correct.Quoting Jim Ford <james.ford@...>:> Interesting,
>>> Vladan, that the 8340/8341 synths share circuitry with? > the 8566 spec
>>> an.? I figured the bottom part of the 8566 was pretty? > much just a
>>> synthesized sweeper anyway.? I don't have an 8340 or? > 8341 (yet), but
>>> there are a few of the lower frequency versions in? > one of the labs at
>>> work, and they do look like the bottom of the? > 8566.? The sloped bottom
>>> part of the front panel gives them away.? I? > believe the standalone
>>> synths are 5 rack units, though, vs. 3 or 4? > for the bottom of the
>>> 8566.>> Jim>> ------ Original Message ------> From: "pianovt via
>>> Groups.Io" <pianovt@...>> To:
>>> [email protected]> Sent: 2/28/2020 1:20:20 PM>
>>> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B>>>
>>> Here is a brief history. The 8340A was designed in parallel with? >> the
>>> 8510A and was intended for use with it. There was no 8360? >> series back
>>> then. With time, the 8510 A became the 8510B and at? >> some point the
>>> 8340A? become a "B" too. The biggest difference? >> between the A and B
>>> versions of the two instruments was the change? >> from a HP proprietary
>>> processor to the 68000. Eventually, the 8510B? >> was reworked into the
>>> 8510C. While this was going on, a new? >> sweeping syntehsizerseries? was
>>> released, the 8360.>>>> The 8360 series had some models which were
>>> stripped down,? >> specifically for use with the 8510. Stripped down means
>>> they didn't? >> have a standard front panel user interface. They were
>>> meant to? >> interact with the 8510 via the system bus only. That kept the
>>> cost? >> down for customers who didn't need a stand-alone sweeper or? >>
>>> synthesizer.>>>> In the meantime, a lower cost version of the 8340 was
>>> introduced,? >> the 8341. It was a 20 GHz synthesizer. However, if you are
>>> willing? >> to study the differences and do some work late at night, you
>>> can? >> probably make the 8341 do much of what the 8340 does and get it to
>>> >> work to 26.5 GHz. The 8341 will work with the 8510 system, but I am? >>
>>> not sure which firmware works with what.>>>> The 8340/41 is very heavy,
>>> and it has a jet engine style cooling? >> fan. Inside, the frequency
>>> synthesis circuits are pretty much the? >> same as what was used in the
>>> 8566 spectrum analyzer, but there is? >> also an output section with a
>>> multiplier, leveling circuits,? >> modulation etc., in other words all the
>>> stuff that's needed to get? >> the signal out. The upside is, many 8566 LO
>>> parts can be had for? >> next to nothing, so spare parts are largely
>>> available for the? >> synthesizer portion. Documentation is also
>>> available. Not so much? >> for the 8360. As far as I know, the alignment
>>> and calibration? >> software for the 8360 has not been released to the
>>> general public? >> either.>>>> Vladan>>>>
>>
>> ---
>> *
>> *? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
>> *? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

---
*
*? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
*? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
*
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

Thanks for the explanation, Job. I didn't see that part of your Twitter post (I guess I don't know hoow to use Twitter and Facebook). Those rubber mounts are actually a big deal. They are there to reduce microphonic disturbances from the fan from getting to the OCXO and anything else that might respond to the shaking.

The top thing that annoys me about the 8340 (and 8566), its the fan noise. It's well worth fixing that problem, especially since these instruments won't be running at 55C here (that's the rating the fan was designed for).

Vladan
Re: 8510C: 8340B vs 83631B

 

Sergey,

The rear output option is unattractive unless you want to commit the 8340 for use with a 8510. Then it's better than the front output. Since this thread is about the use of a 8340/8360 with a 8510, we should keep that in mind. The same is true about other specs which are secondary in a VNA application (e.g. phase noise).

Steve is right, the conversion to front panel output does require a machined bracket. As I recall, it's not an easy DIY piece.

Vladan
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