Re: Replacing the fan on an HP11729C
I must have missed a post, but rather than read all the posts again,? ... did the spurs go away? Can you make good measurements now?
Vladan
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Re: Replacing the fan on an HP11729C
Yes, that's my fault. Eyes saw the schematic. Brain said, I don't want tea, I like pie! So fingers typed pi...
-Chuck Harris
Dan Nessett via Groups.Io wrote:
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Thanks Leo. I need to make one correction - the filter before the fan speed control is a T-filter, not a PI-filter. Dan On Friday, February 21, 2020, 01:37:33 AM PST, Leo Bodnar <leo@...> wrote: Very nice summary, thanks, Dan. Leo
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Re: Replacing the fan on an HP11729C
Thanks Leo. I need to make one correction - the filter before the fan speed control is a T-filter, not a PI-filter.
Dan
On Friday, February 21, 2020, 01:37:33 AM PST, Leo Bodnar <leo@...> wrote:
Very nice summary, thanks, Dan. Leo
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I last corresponded with Ken in June 2019. I believe that he is well but really busy and that is why his web site does not show any updates since Aug. 29, 2015. I can relate to that because I am just getting around to projects I began decades ago. Cheers, Tom
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NP.? Not that I'm the only person in this group that has that combination, mind you....
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Ken Goodhew <kgoodhew@...> Date: 2/20/20 8:59 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem
Thanks Jim will let you know, would be probably to measure signal levels as it appears that the problem is related to harmonics in band 0 so I have to measure a few signals to see if they are correct before proceeding further. Ken. ? ? I have an 8350B and 83592B plug-in, both in perfect working order, as far as I know.? I don't mind ;) taking mine apart if there's something you want me to check vs your ailing beast.? Also 8566A spec an to check output purity etc. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- Date: 2/20/20 3:19 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem set 8350b to 15 mhz cw and did a single sweep on the spectrum analyzer and it produced a similar waveform to the previous picture, just a bit more squashed up.
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Re: 8593E Tracking generator issues
Further along... Was able to adjust offset and gain of ALC response on 5086-7906 TG per the service manual procedure. Performance is within specification, but there is a big 'hole' in the flatness at the low frequency end that varies with output level. Perhaps this is the nature of the beast, given the absolute accuracy specs that allow for ~3-4 db variation total over the operating range. Wanting to check the spectral purity, but lack a receiver / analyzer in the 100 - 500 MHz range at the moment (VNA in 'Tuned Receiver' mode tried, needs further study). It might be spurious outputs confusing the detector, as has been suggested in these threads, ?? #103226???#103124???Or, something else. Have seen some instability and oscillation in the ALC at the low frequency end from cold start. Would very much like to see a schematic of the 5086-7906..! ALC control voltage from the A10 board looks good, see stable ramps in sweep and quiet at zero span. Using 8471A detector and external ALC did not achieve leveled condition, but some response to level adjustment was seen. Have found little information on the external ALC mode for 8593E, other than with some special options it cannot be used..??
Waveforms show open loop output, 0 dBm, and -10 dBm at 0 dB step attenuator.
Thoughts..?
 

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Hi All,
The gate time pot on my 5342A had been dodgy for some time and just getting worse. No doubt I'm not the only one who has come across this issue. I found RS 790-4243 to be a good substitute for the original notwithstanding the plastic shaft and different body. It's quite a job to get the front panel out but I'm pleased with the result. Unlike the bloke in the Youtube video, I didn't need to make any other modifications to maintain functionality.
Posted in the interest of sharing .
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Re: Replacing the fan on an HP11729C
Very nice summary, thanks, Dan. Leo
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Hi.
I don't have a Pi with me, but I suspect that if installing the build dependencies work without error, and you can physically connect it to the Pi, it could work.
Following the instructions on that page, all the dependencies install and build just fine on Mint 19.3 64 bit without any warnings or errors.
Guess I need to trawl "the bay" see if there are any of those IR cameras there at sensible costs.
Cheers.
Dave G0WBX.
-- Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
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Kenneth is aware of this group. He pointed me here a few months back.
I noticed he had? scanned a few manuals such as the 5245L Counter, so I e-mailed him about the rare?K37 5245L Converter Interface that I've since bought.
If you ever read this Kenneth, you are a gentleman?and a scholar. Thanks for your input.
--
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Been away all day Ken- just back. If that? CW signal is producing multiple sigs ?on the spec an then it should be easy enuff to check if they are harmonically related to the fundamental. I see you are using 3MHZ RBW so incidental FM etc on the sweeper output shouldn¡¯t be causing any confusion. If you have multiple sigs, see if they reduce significantly with higher freq ?ones reducing the most when you drop the input to the spec an. They may not, but worth it to check. ?If they do reduce then its just? an overdriven spec an mixer causing much of the issue. ??If they are NOT harmonically related to the ?CW sig ex the sweeper then ?you probably need to dig further into the 8350/plugin. Do you get much the same result with the CW sig set much higher, say to around 600 MHz? ?Not sure all ?this addresses your original issue where the signals on the spec an were all a more or less constant 120 MHz or so apart up to 1.8 GHz- but sort this one first. ? ?DaveB, NZ ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Goodhew Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 17:59 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem? Thanks Jim will let you know, would be probably to measure signal levels as it appears that the problem is related to harmonics in band 0 so I have to measure a few signals to see if they are correct before proceeding further. Ken. ? ? I have an 8350B and 83592B plug-in, both in perfect working order, as far as I know.? I don't mind ;) taking mine apart if there's something you want me to check vs your ailing beast.? Also 8566A spec an to check output purity etc. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- Date: 2/20/20 3:19 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem set 8350b to 15 mhz cw and did a single sweep on the spectrum analyzer and it produced a similar waveform to the previous picture, just a bit more squashed up.
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Thanks Jim will let you know, would be probably to measure signal levels as it appears that the problem is related to harmonics in band 0 so I have to measure a few signals to see if they are correct before proceeding further. Ken. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jim Ford Sent: Friday, 21 February 2020 2:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem? I have an 8350B and 83592B plug-in, both in perfect working order, as far as I know.? I don't mind ;) taking mine apart if there's something you want me to check vs your ailing beast.? Also 8566A spec an to check output purity etc. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- Date: 2/20/20 3:19 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem set 8350b to 15 mhz cw and did a single sweep on the spectrum analyzer and it produced a similar waveform to the previous picture, just a bit more squashed up.
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Re: sick hp 5421A Digital Processor
Chris, this is dead tree format.? Unfortunately, volume 1 just had debugging instructions along with the wiring list --- no schematics to be had.
I'm betting there's a manual in the hoard from ManualsMinus, but good luck getting to that!
These boxes are truly at the cusp of a technology change.
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On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 10:08 PM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 2/20/20 1:23 PM, ChrisBeee via Groups.Io wrote:
> Hi Eagle-Eye Dave? ;-) ,
? =)
> did not realize that the NIMs were on the picture too. Actually, they
> were kind of a by-catch when I bought a crate full of Gov Surplus stuff
> (including the /hp /5401A) from one of the the NV atomic testing sites
> many years ago when I was living part-time time in SoCal. Problem: there
> was no NIM bin in this lot. I would have liked to get one of these nice
> /hp/ 5580A NIM bins, but NIM bins are scarce in general here in Germany
> and finding a /hp/ bin seemed to be impossible. Last year I started to
> visit the HAM Radio Friedrichshafen here in Germany. Maybe I will find
> an 'ordinary' Canberra or Ortec bin there some day...
? Indeed, I'm sorry to hear they're so hard to find over there.
? Shipping would not be cheap, but I could part with a NIM bin for a
small sum.? I'm not really trying to sell them, but I do have more of
them than I will ever need, so I'm only looking for a few bucks.? The
shipping will be the tough part.? I don't have any of the HP bins, but
Ortecs and a few others.? Ping me off-list if you'd like to discuss.
? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Hi, Ken.
I have an 8350B and 83592B plug-in, both in perfect working order, as far as I know.? I don't mind ;) taking mine apart if there's something you want me to check vs your ailing beast.? Also 8566A spec an to check output purity etc.
Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Ken Goodhew <kgoodhew@...> Date: 2/20/20 3:19 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem
set 8350b to 15 mhz cw and did a single sweep on the spectrum analyzer and it produced a similar waveform to the previous picture, just a bit more squashed up.
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Re: sick hp 5421A Digital Processor
On 2/20/20 1:23 PM, ChrisBeee via Groups.Io wrote: Hi Eagle-Eye Dave? ;-) , =) did not realize that the NIMs were on the picture too. Actually, they were kind of a by-catch when I bought a crate full of Gov Surplus stuff (including the /hp /5401A) from one of the the NV atomic testing sites many years ago when I was living part-time time in SoCal. Problem: there was no NIM bin in this lot. I would have liked to get one of these nice /hp/ 5580A NIM bins, but NIM bins are scarce in general here in Germany and finding a /hp/ bin seemed to be impossible. Last year I started to visit the HAM Radio Friedrichshafen here in Germany. Maybe I will find an 'ordinary' Canberra or Ortec bin there some day... Indeed, I'm sorry to hear they're so hard to find over there. Shipping would not be cheap, but I could part with a NIM bin for a small sum. I'm not really trying to sell them, but I do have more of them than I will ever need, so I'm only looking for a few bucks. The shipping will be the tough part. I don't have any of the HP bins, but Ortecs and a few others. Ping me off-list if you'd like to discuss. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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On 2020-02-20 6:27 PM, Tim hughes wrote: He was still very active up to the end. If you are registered on ResearchGate or just go and google ResearchGate, you can see he was still a very active contributor to discussions on electronics always ready to help and encourage new engineers asking naive questions. You can download some of his papers/presentations from researchgate too. Apart from all his contributions to Multipliers/mixers and non-linear ccts, I always liked his unique analog circuits for putting the display characters on tektronix analog scopes. Hi Tim Analog display systems have become a big interest of mine. Where could I read more about that -- or are you tempted to write a blog post about it? :) --Toby Tim
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:53:57 PM PST, <[email protected]> wrote:
Very sad news indeed. Thanks for sharing.
Sean
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Replacing the fan on an HP11729C
I recently needed to change the fan on an HP11729C. Several members of the HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment list on groups.io greatly assistment me in this, which is in fact a bit of an understatement. Without their help I would not have been able to complete this task. I would like to acknowledge their assistance and thank them for it. They are: Leo Bodnar, Chuck Harris, Orin Eman and John Gord. In the spirit of their unselfish contributions, I thought I would create a detailed set of instructions that document my experience with this retrofit.
The original equipment on the HP11729C is a Buehler fan driven by control logic that converts 12V DC to a 3-phase AC driving voltage. The new fan is a 12V DC fan. The one I used was recommended by Leo - , which I purchased from Amazon.
In order to remove the fan, several bolt sets must be removed. My 11729C has handles on the side for lifting, which must be removed, as their edges cover the backplate in which the fan is mounted (see handles.jpg, which is attached to this message). There are two of these handles, one on the top, the other on the bottom. Then you must remove 8 mini-bolts, 4 on each side of the chasis (see four_backplate_side_bolts.jpg). Note: two of these bolts are longer than the others. You should mark the holes from which the came so they can be returned to the proper place when reattaching the backplate to the chasis.
The final set of bolts are located on the face of the backplage (see backplate_facing_bolts.jpg). These are easily removed, but (see below) are incredibly hard to get back into place. If you try to remove the old fan without removing these bolts, you run the risk of bending the backplate, so unfortunately, their remove is necessary.
Once these set of bolts are removed, with a bit of wiggling the old fan can be wedged out of its slot. This is not particularly easy as the old fan sits in a slot on the side of the backplate (see lip_on_backplate_holding_fan.jpg. Note: this lip is shown in the image with the new fan inserted, so it isn't apparent how the old fan inserts into it. However, when you push the backplate out to access the old fan, it is obvious). After removing the bolts holding the old fan and fan guard to the backplate, you can wiggle it in order to wedge it out of the other side of the backplate (see new_fan_insterted_into_backplate.jpg. Note this image shows the new fan in the fan slot with the fan guard and fan bolted to the backplate. However, the arrows show where the fan can be wedged out of its slot.)
Once you have removed the old fan, the new fan slips easily into place. Just bolt the fan guard and fan to the backplate using the bolts that held the old fan in place.
In order to connect the new fan to its power source, the red and black wires must be routed to a 12V source. This is on the other side of the PC board, so (after twisting the wires) I routed it through a convenient VIA (see site_of_12V_supply_on_back_of_PC_board.jpg). Note that the schematic (see Schematic.jpg) shows the speed control for fan connected to the -15V supply on the 11729C. I orignally did not understand how this was going to provide the necessary 12 volts required by the new fan. However, Chuck Harris pointed out that the PI filter inserted between the -15V supply voltage and the speed control would drop the voltage to around 12V, since it comprises two 19.6 Ohm resistors with a 10 uF cap to ground. In fact when loaded by the new fan, the PI filter drops the voltage to 11.23V. This is sufficient, since the new fan will spin on volages between 6 and 13.8 V.
It is important to note that the new fan runs on 12 V, whereas the speed control expects a -12 V input. So, when wiring the new fan to the old power source, you must solder the red wire to ground and the black wire to -12 V (see 12v_supply_to_fan.jpg). Note that the red wire is soldered to the 2 pad and the black wire to the 6 pad, which, if you look at the schematic accomplishes the required switch in polariy.
Once the new fan is inserted (and after testing that it works by connecting the power cord and turning on the unit), it is time to reattach the backplate to the chasis. I first rebolted the 8 side bolts, connecting the backplate to the chasis side wall. Then I rebolted the facing bolts through the backplate to the chasis. This is an easy statement to make, but it wasn't easy to accomplish.
It took me about 2 1/2 hours to get these two bolts connected. Working on each bolt one at a time, I inserted them with the unit sitting in its side. I then put a piece of electral tape over the bolt hole (see tape_holding_backplate_facing_bolts.jpg) and turned the unit so the bolt face was sitting on the benchtop (see backplate_facing_bolt_on_inside_of_chasis.jpg). This allowed me, using a pair of needle nose pliers, to gently ease the washer and lock washer over the bolt. I then turned the unit on its side again and very gently removed the tape, using my finger to keep the bolt from coming out with the tape. Splitting a wooden tongue depressor lengthwise and adding some blue stickum to its end (see backplate_facing_bolt_nut_on_half_tongue_depressor.jpg) I put the nut on the stickum. Not shown in the image is I then bent the end of the tongue depressor 90 degrees so I could place the nut over the bolt end. Using a screw driver, I turned the bolt wiggling the nut around until it caught on the bolt's threads. I then removed the tongue depressor and using a pair of needle nose pliers, held the nut in place using the screw driver to tighten the nut on the bolt.
This may sound straight forward, but it was not. First, getting the washer and lockwasher on the bolt end was not easy. They kept flying all over the place when I tried to manuever them onto the bolt end with the needle nose pliers.
Second, when I had them in place and turned the unit back on its side, the washers would invariably fall off, requiring me place it on its back again and reposition the washers. I kept loosing them as they fell into the insides of the unit. Turing the unit this way and that, simultaneously shaking it would usually disloged them and either they would fall out onto the bench or would land somewhere in the chasis that I could access. However, I lost one washer that never did come out of the unit's bowels.
Third, when I had successfully got the unit on its side with both washers in place and tried to maneuver the bolt over the bolt end, the stickum would catch the washers and further movement of the tongue depressor would pull them off.
I won't go into any more detail, but be forwarned. Getting these bolts back into place is a very frustrating task. Perhaps others have some advice how to do this with more ease.
Once the facing bolts were reattached, it only requires attaching the side handles and the repair is complete.
Dan
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Here's another interesting short obit:
On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 3:28:23 PM PST, Tim hughes <timhughes@...> wrote:
He was still very active up to the end.
If you are registered on ResearchGate or just go and google ResearchGate, you can see he was still a very active contributor to discussions on electronics always ready to help and encourage new engineers asking naive questions. You can download some of his papers/presentations from researchgate too.
Apart from all his contributions to Multipliers/mixers and non-linear ccts, I always liked his unique analog circuits for putting the display characters on tektronix analog scopes.
Tim
Very sad news indeed. Thanks for sharing.
Sean
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He was still very active up to the end.
If you are registered on ResearchGate or just go and google ResearchGate, you can see he was still a very active contributor to discussions on electronics always ready to help and encourage new engineers asking naive questions. You can download some of his papers/presentations from researchgate too.
Apart from all his contributions to Multipliers/mixers and non-linear ccts, I always liked his unique analog circuits for putting the display characters on tektronix analog scopes.
Tim
Very sad news indeed. Thanks for sharing.
Sean
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Re: sick hp 5421A Digital Processor
Hi Mark, as what per the functional specification can be assumed, the hp 5480A averages repetitive signals in the amplitude domain only, whereas the 5421A portion of the 5401A is capable of doing much more than that (MCS, PHA, Correlation between two signals etc.). One thing in common is that digital amplitude values are stored in a magnetic core memory. I have no clue if these instruments actually came from the same R&D team (maybe someone else knows), but I assume that nobody at hp wanted to invent the wheel twice. It is not beyond possibility that there are shared components or even assemblies. The hpJ March and April 1968 issues suggest though that both instruments were cranked out by the Nuclear Instrumentation Group.
Do you have the manual in electronic form or as paper hardware? I would be interested in whatever is available. In return: I have paper versions of the following SMs: 5431A/B, 5416A/B and 5406A (system SM only, just external wiring and troubleshooting diagrams, no schematics) from which I can make (partial) scans if this is needed for another repair project out there. Just let me know! Chris
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