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Date

Re: Logic Analyzer isolation adapters - HP 01650-63201 vs HP 01650-63203

 

I recently checked the difference between the 01650-63201 and 01650-63203, and it turns out the -01 does not actually put +5V on pin 1 and 2. They truly seem to be N/C from the pod-side. However, it does connect pin 1 and 2 together like a jumper.

So this explains the mentioned warning in the training kit, but it is worth noting that the warning is independent to the context of the preceeding paragraph about how to power the board in the first place.


Re: Help figuring out my 8648C Signal Generator?....

 

And I got a little carried away again...

I drew up the rear handle/foot (08647-40003) to replace the missing part on mine and uploaded the file to thingiverse in case someone else needs one.


And also drew up the front frame too which I'll get made in aluminium in China if I can't find a replacement from a scrapped instrument for a decent price.
I'm 99% confident that it will fit perfectly, but that means it probably won't first time and will need a tweak. :D







Jared


Re: HP 8350B plug-in external ALC help

 

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The 83592A manual page 3-16 shows the power meter recorder output (0V at zero input, 1V full scale according to the HP 432A manual), directly connected with a BNC.

Page 8-28 under the heading of A4 ALC assembly mentions an inverter circuit for the power meter j out. This makes sense when considering the internal ALC has a negative detector diode.

Page 8-94 mentions crystal detector voltages of -10 to -200 mV and power meter inputs of 0-1V range.

It mentions signal routing when [MTR] power meter is selected.

Plug in a BNC cable to the recorder output. Hit the [MTR] button to select power meter ALC.


Re: HP 8116 doesnt reach 50MHz properly

 

Thank you!
I will let to warm up, didn't pay attention to this.

Best Regards
Augusto


Re: HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

Tom,

now it is clear. But with anode and cathode reversed in Your first description, I could not follow.

And I was ables to complete the repair, I looked in a for-parts HP 3764A, a digital transmission analyzer, I think for T2 lines or so, which I will never need.
It has plenty of 1901-0518 Schottkys in it, and some other, similar ones.
Took two, and replaced CR3 and CR4 both.
Sidebands on the spectrum analyzer look good, but did so also with a 1N4148. Maybe it is not so critical.

Thanks for all the help.

Peter


Re: HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

If my memory isn¡¯t faulty, the 5082-2810 was a diode usable as a mixer diode up to perhaps a gigahertz or two, rather than something you¡¯d use in say a 1N914 or 1N4148 application.


Re: HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

Hi Peter,

I'm using the 3325B service manual on Keysight's website from March 1990. Specifically the schematic right after page 8-F-4 which is Figure 8-F-2 Fractional N Analog A21 on PDF page 130. CR3 and CR4 are facinging each other at the end of the Phase Comparator and Integrator. I did get Anode and Cathode reversed. The cathodes connect while the anode of CR3 connects to Q3 of the Phase Comparator while CR4 anode connects to several things including R71 from the Integrator.

For CR3, the anode connects through Q3 and Q4 as you say. The most direct route to power is the collector-emitter junction of Q3 to?+5V (I called it?+15V as my copy is very hard to read).? Q3ce does have a resistance but in the worst case (failed transistor) it will be a direct short to +5V. The most direct path to power for the cathode of CR3 is the source-drain junction of Q18 (I think) but that is only?+V which CR3 will block. The next best route is through the source-drain junction of Q10 (I think) and then through the dual collector-emitters of U2A then U30A (another guess) which is a 1150 ohm resistor to -15V. So the worst case looks like?+5V -|>|---/\/\/\/\--- -15V. That is 20V across 1150 ohms or 17.4mA. To calculate the power dissipation across CR3 (not the power flowing through CR3 which is 20V * 0.0174A or 348mW) we need to know the voltage drop from 17.4mA at the operating temperature of the diode in the worst case scenario. This is different for each diode so we need to pick one and see. Let's use the 1N4448. It is not the best choice but has the most detailed datasheet. We will use a reputable version from Vishey. The rated power dissipation is 440mW @ 45C which is the maximum amount of heat the diode can eject continuously in normal circumstances. We only care about power that is converted to heat which comes from some kind of internal resistance. The resistance comes in the form of a voltage drop across the diode. You often hear that silicon diodes have a 0.6V drop and Schottky diodes are somewhere around 0.35V but that number changes with current and temperature. Page 2 Figure 2 of the 1N4448 datasheet is a forward current vs forward voltage graph. Forward voltage is the voltage drop at a given forward current. We can approximate 17.4mA with the 1st line above 10mA. We find the forward voltage drop to be about 0.8V. Now 0.8V at 17.4mA is 14mW which is the worst case power dissipation from CR3.

Doing the same for CR4 we will use the same cathode connection of -15V through a 1150 ohm resistor. For the anode side we follow R72 (1k) through W2 (assuming jumpered in the test position which is a valid?non-fault condition) past TP10 through the collector-emitter junction of Q9 to +15V. If Q1 FET were to fail we could also see a direct short to +15V. So max operational current is 30V (+15 to -15) through 1150 ohms (fault) or 2150 ohms (non-fault) for 26/14mA. The forward voltage drop of 1N4448 at 26mA is maybe 0.85V. 0.85V at 26mA = 22mW power dissipation.

Modern silicon diodes exceed the specs of many of these old Schotkky diodes when they were used mainly for their low forward voltage to achieve a lower power dissipation. I hope that helps.

On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 at 19:06, Peter <petersson@...> wrote:
Another detail:

In my 3325B under repair, both CR3 and CR4 are 1901-0539, not 1901-0518. In alle other places in this unit, there are 1901-0518.
In my other, working, 3325B, all are 0158, inclunding CR3 and CR4. This unit is slightly older. so I think they changed CR3 and 4 to 0539 for a reason.

1901-0539 is listed in the MSN database as 5961-00-577-0558, which references also to 5082-2810


HP 8350B plug-in external ALC help

 

Hi,

I want to experiment with external
leveling if my 83595A plugin using an external ALC source. I plan to use my 432A power meter which I know is compatible.

The manuals seem to be rather ?thin on details about how to set this up (the 8350B local operating guide refers to it, and explains in detail how to configure just about every instrument except the 432A!) - and so I¡¯m wondering if anybody knows of a good reference/tutorial that I can read?

I¡¯m assuming I need to sample the RF output with ?a coupler, detect it, and then feed it back.?


But some instructions to prevent me from blowing something up by accident would be reassuring!

thanks

tony


Re: HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

Another detail:

In my 3325B under repair, both CR3 and CR4 are 1901-0539, not 1901-0518. In alle other places in this unit, there are 1901-0518.
In my other, working, 3325B, all are 0158, inclunding CR3 and CR4. This unit is slightly older. so I think they changed CR3 and 4 to 0539 for a reason.

1901-0539 is listed in the MSN database as 5961-00-577-0558, which references also to 5082-2810


Re: HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

Tom, thank You for Your detailed explanation.

But I have a question: How do You get from 18mW dissipation to Pd>800mW ?

And I can not follow Your circuit desription at all.
>In this circuit CR3 and CR4 are used to sum the inputs from the phase comparator and the integrator. The anode of both connect to -15V through a 1k15 resistor. The cathode of CR3 (phase comparator) connects to +15V (26mA). CR4 >(integrator) connected to +15V through 1k ohms (14mA). At 26mA the 1N5711 drops 0.7V for a total power dissipation of 18mW.
In my circuit diagram CR3 and CR4 are connected at the cathode side, and gets its signal from the "ramp down bias current sorce".
CR3 get its signal from Q3/Q4, between +5V and -15V.
CR4 goes to the gate of Q17, and another 0518 schottky diode.
I do not see any 1k15 or 1k resistors.

But I think I found a source for this diode (or a pair): In this very machine! On the power supply board A22 there are also the fast sync and aux outputs, both protected by a pair of 1901-0518. I have never used these outputs, so a not-so-perfect replacement there should not hurt so much as in the frequency synthesis.


Re: HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

The 1N5711 is a matched part for 5082-2xxx series. The HP datasheet can be found here

It is probably not the same part as the 5082-5509. It seems Broadcom deleted any reference to the part when they took over ownership. So the most we know is:

HP 3325B A21CR3/4
HP-PN 1901-0518 manufacures by HP Div 5 MSD (specification PN)
MFG-PN 5082-5509 (real part PN)
NSN 5961-00-430-6819 (US military universal PN)
70V reverse breakdown voltage
Schottky small signal diode hot carrier


In this circuit CR3 and CR4 are used to sum the inputs from the phase comparator and the integrator. The anode of both connect to -15V through a 1k15 resistor. The cathode of CR3 (phase comparator) connects to +15V (26mA). CR4 (integrator) connected to +15V through 1k ohms (14mA). At 26mA the 1N5711 drops 0.7V for a total power dissipation of 18mW.

Let's figure out what is needed based on the circuit.

The phase comparator and integrator operate at 100kHz. The speed or CR3/4 equate directly to the maximum resolution of the phase comparison and integration. So faster is better.

100KHz or 10¦Ìs = 360¡ã or ¡À1Hz (very bad)
1MHz or 1¦Ìs = 36¡ã or ¡À100mHz or 1 decimal place
10MHz or 100ns = 3.6¡ã or ¡À10mHz or 2 decimal place
100MHz or 10ns = 0.36¡ã or ¡À1mHz or 3 decimal place
1GHz or 1ns = 0.036¡ã or ¡À 100¦ÌHz or 4 decimal place
10GHz or 100ps = 0.0036¡ã or ¡À10¦ÌHz or 5 decimal place (excellent)

This instrument has a resolution of 1¦ÌHz and accuracy of ¡À5mHz. 10ns might work but 1ns is better.

All together you are looking for:
Vrrm > 30V
If > 30mA
Pd > 800mW
Trr < 5nS
Irl = lowest available for best noise performance?

The HP 1N5711 is 70V 15mA 430mW 100ps diode which wouldn't survive the worst case scenario.

1N5711-1/6857-1/6858-1 are 33mA 200mW diodes but are expensive obsolete parts. Oddly Microsemi doesn't specify reverse recovery time or V/s. However 2pF at 1MHz normally equates to 1-5ns which is good enough.

1N4448 100V 200mA 4ns 4pF 500mW 780mV@28mA(22mW)

BAW76 50V 300mA 2ns 2pF 500mW? 1V@100mA(<100mW)

1N4151 same as BAW76 with slightly higher forward voltage drop so slightly higher power dissipation but still well under limits

1N916 same as 1N4448 but with worse power dissipation

1N6638/42/43 150/100/75V 300mA 4.5/5.0/6.0ns 2.5/2.8/2.8pF ~900mV@28mA(25mW)

All of these should work. With BAW76 being the best. If you look harder you can probably find some 1ns or even 100ps diodes?

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023, 6:08?AM factory <bobradios11@...> wrote:
Seems the same problem I have, trying to find info on the 1901-0518. Unfortunately there is almost nothing modern still made in through hole, since Broadcom deleted all the interesting RF parts from HP/Avago;

I've found some 8640B use the 0518 on the A8A3 timebase and A26A4 AGC boards, 0539 is used on the A26A1 power amp board, sadly both are listed as sm sig Schottky, no details given.

David


Re: 11807E Radio Test Software on PCMCIA Cards for the 8920B

 

Robert;
I just sent a Paypal F&F your way. My address is in an e-mail to you.
Thanks Joe

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 12:45 PM, Robert G8RPI wrote:

And if you don't want to DIY, I can do you a Flash card for small fee...

DIY requires a copy of Memory card Explorer, a PC with a PCMCIA slot (including 12V supply unless your Flash card is 5V) and a linear Flash card.

PM me if you want one.


Re: HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

Seems the same problem I have, trying to find info on the 1901-0518. Unfortunately there is almost nothing modern still made in through hole, since Broadcom deleted all the interesting RF parts from HP/Avago;

I've found some 8640B use the 0518 on the A8A3 timebase and A26A4 AGC boards, 0539 is used on the A26A1 power amp board, sadly both are listed as sm sig Schottky, no details given.

David


HP 3325B repair, help needed with Schottky diode

 

Hi,

I got a HP 3325B, which seems to have seen very little use, no dust inside, and in great shape outside.
Giving all different FAILs at the begining.
First and easy fo find, two radial tantal 15uF caps where short. Seems to happen more likely on items stored for a long time,
so that fits with its overal apperance. Replaced them with new ones, also radial tantal, still available.
But still gave FAIL 23 or FAIL 24, and then FAIL 31.
I was able to limit it to board A21 (top side, left).
THe S/H and integrator part wasn't working at all. It didn' get any signal in, because CR4 was open.
It is a Schottky diode 1901-0518 (HP OEM part 5082-5509).
In my othe 3325B there are dioedes marked HP0518.
In the bad unit they seem to be marked HP0539( very hard to read), for which I could find even less.
Is the 1N5711 a real replacement? Or just "works also" part?

Part is A21CR4.

And suggestions?

Peter

from Hamburg, Germany


Re: Help figuring out my 8648C Signal Generator?....

 

Thanks for the info. :)


I ended up buying an earlier manual to suit my serial number (Which doesn't seem to be available online), so one it arrives I'll scan it in and upload it here and there.
Maybe it'll have some info that I seek...


Jared


IF injector card HP 5062-6241

 

Hello Group, I am searching? this special card to calibrate the IF Section of my HP8593E. Does a GERBER copy of this PCB exist for this card ?, or a photo ?
I do Have a copy of one card produced by DJ1YR HAMRADIO . But I do not have any information about this card anyway.
Best wishes everyone
ON1EV?
Belgium


Re: HP 8116 doesnt reach 50MHz properly

 

If I remember correctly, that's about par for the course on these. It's been awhile since I've played with one. I would recommend you let it warm up for about an hour, and then run through the calibration procedure and see where it stands. Then you can make a decision from there. Check your power supply voltages. These fgens are pretty easy to work on.


HP 8116 doesnt reach 50MHz properly

 

Hello,
i bought an HP8116 in a good condition, working properly except that it can reach about 10MHz and after that the output is attenuated and distorted, in all waweforms.

I didnt make the adjustments yet.
For me, it looks like something is not OK in the output stage, i dont know if the adjusments can correct this distortion and attenuation.

Any way, does anyone have seen something similar?

Best regards
Augusto


Re: Agilent E4406A CPU Board Pulling down the power supply.

 

On my E4406A I changed all the 100k 1206 SMD resistors on the fan controller board (as one of them had gone open circuit) and this cured an issue with the cooling fan running at full duty all the time.

Then some time later the E4406A started to fail to power up. This was again traced to the fan controller board.
On my fan controller board there are also two 150k 1206 SMD resistors and one of these had failed open circuit. Note that it isn't enough to check this resistor in circuit. There will be some circuit resistance there even if the resistor is open circuit. So I had to remove the 150k resistors to measure them.

I replaced both of the 150k resistors (one had failed open circuit) and the E4406A sprang to life again and has been reliable ever since.


Re: HP 8640B Attenuator Repair

 

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I believe that Harley Halvorsen devised those hacks while working on the HP355 family of attenuators. He took Art Fong's design and added the compensation that pushed performance to 1GHz (pretty remarkable for something that only uses through-hole resistors). The 8640 team based their attenuator on the 355-family design. I recall seeing pics of the 355's innards somewhere (probably from the hpmemory site). The metal bits seen in Don's pics can be seen in the earlier attenuator as well.

As Don warns, don't "clean up" those metal bits. The attenuator depends on those compensating capacitances to keep the attenuation flat out to 1GHz. And if you ever replace any of the resistors, it is unfortunately likely that flatness will suffer until you tweak it up again.

-- Cheers
Tom
-- 
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
420 Via Palou Mall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 12/1/2023 7:18 PM, Don Brown, N3DEB wrote:

And DO NOT touch or move any of the custom tuning materials such as those white wire "pigtails" or the thin metal strips bent around resistors. Don't move anything, and don't let any bumps occur to these parts when cover is off!

These attenuators were not considered field serviceable, I assume needing HP technician test jigs to re tune if any components are replaced.