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Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

开云体育

Hi Pete,

In the US, it once was "first to invent". That is no more; it is now "first to file", in sync with (most of) the rest of the world.

--Tom
-- 
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 2/21/2022 20:07, saipan59 (Pete) wrote:

Getting more back on topic, my original point was that a narrower search filter might be either: Filing date (before release), or Grant date (after release)? The assumption being that Grant is unlikely to occur before Release, and Filing is unlikely after Release.

Also, my impression was that the important "start date" is NOT the filing date, but rather the earliest date that the inventor can show documentation of the idea, which can include hand-written notes in a notebook, or other means. I remember I was required to provide that type of info early in the process. And I just read online that the U.S. had (prior to 2013) a 1-year grace period to allow filing after "disclosure".

Pete


Re: RPG 5060-9444 (conversion LAMP to LED)

 

Very nice job, Yves! The idea of recycling the functional parts of a LED bulb is appealing, I like that a lot!
Thanks for sharing!
Chris


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

Getting more back on topic, my original point was that a narrower search filter might be either: Filing date (before release), or Grant date (after release)? The assumption being that Grant is unlikely to occur before Release, and Filing is unlikely after Release.

Also, my impression was that the important "start date" is NOT the filing date, but rather the earliest date that the inventor can show documentation of the idea, which can include hand-written notes in a notebook, or other means. I remember I was required to provide that type of info early in the process. And I just read online that the U.S. had (prior to 2013) a 1-year grace period to allow filing after "disclosure".

Pete


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

In trying to find patents that apply to specific models, I’ve found that the HP Journal article that introduced the instrument to be helpful. Knowing the names of the author and those he acknowledges gives you a helpful starting point to narrow the patent search.

Cheers
Tom



Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity

On Feb 21, 2022, at 19:39, Richard Knoppow <dickburk@...> wrote:

? McDonald's secret sauce is, I am sure, Bob's Big Boy thousand island dressing. The Big Mac is very similar to the Big Boy except the Big Boy has more flavor. Bob's was a favorite hangout when I was in highschool (the Toluca Lake one).

On 2/21/2022 5:13 PM, Steve - Home wrote:
And McDonald’s secret sauce and KFC’s “11 herbs and spices” ?

Steve



On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Tom Lee <tomlee@...> wrote:
?A classic example of trade secret protection is the formula for Coke. Patents expire, but trade secret protection lasts as long as the secret can be kept.

Tom

On 2/21/2022 4:45 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
To be clear, once an application has been made there is considerable protection until the patent is issued. As someone mentioned there are lots of patent applied for notices on manufactured items.
Also, Some companies relied more on trade secret protection. Eastman Kodak did this for many years because there is no time limit on it. They began to rely more on patents when the rate of discovery of new products became rapid enough for a patent to last through the market life. A trade secret can protect one against having a product design stolen but not against independent discovery.
Patent law seems to be extremely convoluted although it still not as bad as copyright law.

On 2/21/2022 3:38 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io wrote:

No, you cannot apply for a patent if the invention has already been publicly disclosed. Public disclosure includes going to mass manufacturing.

The patent checklist a Rockwell International and Northern Telecom included items such a date first customer trial. That date was used by the attorneys to figure out when they needed to apply for a patent.

I have 4 patents, and a key condition for the application was any possible disclosure and that included manufacturing. The application date is key, as the actual award date is not important. Many patents take years to be awarded.

Regarding big companies, new possible patentable ideas were presented to patent committees. Patent committees accepted and rejected ideas and graded them. Once the grading was done, the decision went to the executives that matched funding available for patents with business needs.

Best, Francesco K5URG

*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve - Home
*Sent:* Monday, February 21, 2022 5:14 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] How to find patents for HP equipment

?Not at all, you can go into production at any time. But you do risk “spilling the beans” before the patent protection kicks in. Lots of devices out there with “patent pending” stamped on them. I always figured that was grist for patent poachers and idea thieves.

Steve



On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io
<k5urg@...> wrote:

?I believe that a patent must be filed before the product
hits the market!



On Feb 21, 2022, at 16:48, saipan59 (Pete)
<saipan1959@...> wrote:

?Don't know if it helps, but can you search against
Grant Date, rather than Filing Date? My thinking is
that Grant is almost certainly going to be after
product release, so maybe it's a narrower range. During
development, there is often little time to do the
patent stuff. But closer to Release time, the designers
(may) be less busy, the design details are firm, and
they can think about patentable stuff. I could be wrong...

Trivia: My career was with DEC, then with HP and HPE.
DEC was "stingy" about spending money for patents. In
the late 80's I submitted a Disclosure as an employee
of Manufacturing. DEC said basically "good idea, but in
Manufacturing we can just keep it a secret, so no need
for a patent."
But HP was very generous with patents. Simply
submitting the disclosure paperwork paid the employee
$100. If the patent was actually granted, they paid
another $1000. I got two in my career (8184982 and
8648568) - the second one took 4 years until it was
granted (but it was submitted first).

Pete

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070








--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL






Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

Ok, I'm all for a bit of off-topic conversation once in a while, but..

-Dave

On 2/21/22 22:39, Richard Knoppow wrote:
? McDonald's secret sauce is, I am sure, Bob's Big Boy thousand island dressing. The Big Mac is very similar to the Big Boy except the Big Boy has more flavor. Bob's was a favorite hangout when I was in highschool (the Toluca Lake one).
On 2/21/2022 5:13 PM, Steve - Home wrote:
And McDonald’s secret sauce and KFC’s “11 herbs and spices” ?

Steve



On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Tom Lee <tomlee@...> wrote:

?A classic example of trade secret protection is the formula for Coke. Patents expire, but trade secret protection lasts as long as the secret can be kept.

Tom

On 2/21/2022 4:45 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
?? To be clear, once an application has been made there is considerable protection until the patent is issued. As someone mentioned there are lots of patent applied for notices on manufactured items.
?? Also, Some companies relied more on trade secret protection. Eastman Kodak did this for many years because there is no time limit on it. They began to rely more on patents when the rate of discovery of new products became rapid enough for a patent to last through the market life. A trade secret can protect one against having a product design stolen but not against independent discovery.
?? Patent law seems to be extremely convoluted although it still not as bad as copyright law.

On 2/21/2022 3:38 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io wrote:

No, you cannot apply for a patent if the invention has already been publicly disclosed. Public disclosure includes going to mass manufacturing.

The patent checklist a Rockwell International and Northern Telecom included items such a date first customer trial.? That date was used by the attorneys to figure out when they needed to apply for a patent.

I have 4 patents, and a key condition for the application was any possible disclosure and that included manufacturing.? The application date is key, as the actual award date is not important. Many patents take years to be awarded.

Regarding big companies, new possible patentable ideas were presented to patent committees.? Patent committees accepted and rejected ideas and graded them.? Once the grading was done, the decision went to the executives? that matched funding available for patents with business needs.

Best, Francesco K5URG

*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve - Home
*Sent:* Monday, February 21, 2022 5:14 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] How to find patents for HP equipment

?Not at all, you can go into production at any time. But you do risk “spilling the beans” before the patent protection kicks in. Lots of devices out there with “patent pending” stamped on them. I always figured that was grist for patent poachers and idea thieves.

Steve



??? On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io
??? <k5urg@...> wrote:

??? ?I believe that a patent must be filed before the product
??? hits the market!



??????? On Feb 21, 2022, at 16:48, saipan59 (Pete)
??????? <saipan1959@...> wrote:

??????? ?Don't know if it helps, but can you search against
??????? Grant Date, rather than Filing Date? My thinking is
??????? that Grant is almost certainly going to be after
??????? product release, so maybe it's a narrower range. During
??????? development, there is often little time to do the
??????? patent stuff. But closer to Release time, the designers
??????? (may) be less busy, the design details are firm, and
??????? they can think about patentable stuff. I could be wrong...

??????? Trivia: My career was with DEC, then with HP and HPE.
??????? DEC was "stingy" about spending money for patents. In
??????? the late 80's I submitted a Disclosure as an employee
??????? of Manufacturing. DEC said basically "good idea, but in
??????? Manufacturing we can just keep it a secret, so no need
??????? for a patent."
??????? But HP was very generous with patents. Simply
??????? submitting the disclosure paperwork paid the employee
??????? $100. If the patent was actually granted, they paid
??????? another $1000. I got two in my career (8184982 and
??????? 8648568) - the second one took 4 years until it was
??????? granted (but it was submitted first).

??????? Pete

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070









--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

McDonald's secret sauce is, I am sure, Bob's Big Boy thousand island dressing. The Big Mac is very similar to the Big Boy except the Big Boy has more flavor. Bob's was a favorite hangout when I was in highschool (the Toluca Lake one).

On 2/21/2022 5:13 PM, Steve - Home wrote:
And McDonald’s secret sauce and KFC’s “11 herbs and spices” ?

Steve



On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Tom Lee <tomlee@...> wrote:

?A classic example of trade secret protection is the formula for Coke. Patents expire, but trade secret protection lasts as long as the secret can be kept.

Tom

On 2/21/2022 4:45 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
To be clear, once an application has been made there is considerable protection until the patent is issued. As someone mentioned there are lots of patent applied for notices on manufactured items.
Also, Some companies relied more on trade secret protection. Eastman Kodak did this for many years because there is no time limit on it. They began to rely more on patents when the rate of discovery of new products became rapid enough for a patent to last through the market life. A trade secret can protect one against having a product design stolen but not against independent discovery.
Patent law seems to be extremely convoluted although it still not as bad as copyright law.

On 2/21/2022 3:38 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io wrote:

No, you cannot apply for a patent if the invention has already been publicly disclosed. Public disclosure includes going to mass manufacturing.

The patent checklist a Rockwell International and Northern Telecom included items such a date first customer trial. That date was used by the attorneys to figure out when they needed to apply for a patent.

I have 4 patents, and a key condition for the application was any possible disclosure and that included manufacturing. The application date is key, as the actual award date is not important. Many patents take years to be awarded.

Regarding big companies, new possible patentable ideas were presented to patent committees. Patent committees accepted and rejected ideas and graded them. Once the grading was done, the decision went to the executives that matched funding available for patents with business needs.

Best, Francesco K5URG

*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve - Home
*Sent:* Monday, February 21, 2022 5:14 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] How to find patents for HP equipment

?Not at all, you can go into production at any time. But you do risk “spilling the beans” before the patent protection kicks in. Lots of devices out there with “patent pending” stamped on them. I always figured that was grist for patent poachers and idea thieves.

Steve



On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io
<k5urg@...> wrote:

?I believe that a patent must be filed before the product
hits the market!



On Feb 21, 2022, at 16:48, saipan59 (Pete)
<saipan1959@...> wrote:

?Don't know if it helps, but can you search against
Grant Date, rather than Filing Date? My thinking is
that Grant is almost certainly going to be after
product release, so maybe it's a narrower range. During
development, there is often little time to do the
patent stuff. But closer to Release time, the designers
(may) be less busy, the design details are firm, and
they can think about patentable stuff. I could be wrong...

Trivia: My career was with DEC, then with HP and HPE.
DEC was "stingy" about spending money for patents. In
the late 80's I submitted a Disclosure as an employee
of Manufacturing. DEC said basically "good idea, but in
Manufacturing we can just keep it a secret, so no need
for a patent."
But HP was very generous with patents. Simply
submitting the disclosure paperwork paid the employee
$100. If the patent was actually granted, they paid
another $1000. I got two in my career (8184982 and
8648568) - the second one took 4 years until it was
granted (but it was submitted first).

Pete

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070








--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

USPTO does offer PDF copies of patents but you are right that Google has better search facilities. There is also another search engine which has European patents on it but I am not good at working it and don't have much detail. Because I am interested in the history of technology (and other history too) I have gotten reasonably good at searching out patents and reading patentise. Some patents are written to disguise as much as possible the exact information they contain, others, for instance Kodak patents are relatively clear an often have a lot of useful information in them.

On 2/21/2022 4:59 PM, Brooke Clarke via groups.io wrote:
Hi Pete:

There are a number of ways.

In general there are two search engines.? The USPTO and Google.

The good news is that Google has used Optical Character Recognition (OCR) and so you can search all of their data base for any word anywhere.
The bad news is that Google has used Optical Character Recognition which has many mistakes, so there are odds associated with any search.
<> - this is the basic patent number search and for United States patent number the first two characters need to be US.
At the bottom of that page there's a link to the Advanced Search where you have a lot more options.
The Google patent result pages can be trimmed back so that they end with the patent number, a very convenient situation.

The USPTO has a number of web pages for searching.? But they use .tif format for the patents, i.e. no OCR and the searches can only be done on the fields they have digitized.
This is the patent number search (good for getting class numbers):
This is the Quick search:
Notice the select years drop down box.? When you select 1976 to present there are many more fields available to search.
When 1790 to present there are fewer fields available.? There was a patent office fire in 1836 so some patents are no longer available.
The URL for a search result is not permanent nor is the result of a patent number search.

ALL patents are issued on a Tuesday.? So? you can check? a patent date using a Calendar to confirm the patent is on a Tuesday.? If the date is not on a Tuesday there's a typo.

My web pages are filled with patents on all kinds of things including HP instruments.? Here's an old list:


And a general discussion:


I used to visit the Sunnyvale, California patent office and it turns out they are the only one where the patents are filed by Class/Sub-class numbers.? NOT in patent number order.
This allows for easy searching once you know the class numbers for the general area.


If you let me know more specifics I may be able to help.
--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke, N6GCE

axioms:
1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works.
2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

Exactly. I have somewhere (in my storage somewhere) an anniversary book from Kodak Research Labs. It talks about how difficult it was for the labs to communicate with the manufacturing division because they kept everything secret including the changes they made in the research the labs sent. It is rumored that during George Eastman's time only three people in the corporation knew the whole process for making film. At some point, probably in the 1960s the determined that the processes were changing fast enough for patent protection to make sense so started applying for patents although they continued to keep some things secret. If I could find the book I could write more details.

On 2/21/2022 4:52 PM, Tom Lee wrote:
A classic example of trade secret protection is the formula for Coke. Patents expire, but trade secret protection lasts as long as the secret can be kept.

Tom

On 2/21/2022 4:45 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
?? To be clear, once an application has been made there is considerable protection until the patent is issued. As someone mentioned there are lots of patent applied for notices on manufactured items.
?? Also, Some companies relied more on trade secret protection. Eastman Kodak did this for many years because there is no time limit on it. They began to rely more on patents when the rate of discovery of new products became rapid enough for a patent to last through the market life. A trade secret can protect one against having a product design stolen but not against independent discovery.
?? Patent law seems to be extremely convoluted although it still not as bad as copyright law.

On 2/21/2022 3:38 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io wrote:

No, you cannot apply for a patent if the invention has already been publicly disclosed. Public disclosure includes going to mass manufacturing.

The patent checklist a Rockwell International and Northern Telecom included items such a date first customer trial.? That date was used by the attorneys to figure out when they needed to apply for a patent.

I have 4 patents, and a key condition for the application was any possible disclosure and that included manufacturing.? The application date is key, as the actual award date is not important. Many patents take years to be awarded.

Regarding big companies, new possible patentable ideas were presented to patent committees.? Patent committees accepted and rejected ideas and graded them.? Once the grading was done, the decision went to the executives? that matched funding available for patents with business needs.

Best, Francesco K5URG

*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve - Home
*Sent:* Monday, February 21, 2022 5:14 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] How to find patents for HP equipment

?Not at all, you can go into production at any time. But you do risk “spilling the beans” before the patent protection kicks in. Lots of devices out there with “patent pending” stamped on them. I always figured that was grist for patent poachers and idea thieves.

Steve



??? On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io
??? <k5urg@...> wrote:

??? ?I believe that a patent must be filed before the product
??? hits the market!



??????? On Feb 21, 2022, at 16:48, saipan59 (Pete)
??????? <saipan1959@...> wrote:

??????? ?Don't know if it helps, but can you search against
??????? Grant Date, rather than Filing Date? My thinking is
??????? that Grant is almost certainly going to be after
??????? product release, so maybe it's a narrower range. During
??????? development, there is often little time to do the
??????? patent stuff. But closer to Release time, the designers
??????? (may) be less busy, the design details are firm, and
??????? they can think about patentable stuff. I could be wrong...

??????? Trivia: My career was with DEC, then with HP and HPE.
??????? DEC was "stingy" about spending money for patents. In
??????? the late 80's I submitted a Disclosure as an employee
??????? of Manufacturing. DEC said basically "good idea, but in
??????? Manufacturing we can just keep it a secret, so no need
??????? for a patent."
??????? But HP was very generous with patents. Simply
??????? submitting the disclosure paperwork paid the employee
??????? $100. If the patent was actually granted, they paid
??????? another $1000. I got two in my career (8184982 and
??????? 8648568) - the second one took 4 years until it was
??????? granted (but it was submitted first).

??????? Pete

--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL


Re: HP 3048A software without floppy disks

 

On 2/21/22 22:00, Lothar baier wrote:
The last time I used a 3048A based system I was about 25years younger ?? if I remember correctly the system software ran of a HDD on a HP Workstation,
That's one of several ways to run it, yes.

later on they swapped the computer to a HP Vectra but I am not sure if they still used the original basic software or HP actually came out with a DOS version .
They came out with a DOS version, it's called "3048A option 301".

This thing is a legitimate dinosaur
[eye roll]

They've been around awhile, but they work great.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: HP 3048A software without floppy disks

 

On 2/21/22 21:40, Matt Huszagh wrote:
I'm trying to run the HP 3048A software from my HP 382. However, I
believe my floppy drive may be bad. Is there a way to run this software
from program files instead of from floppy disks?
Yes, you can run it from a single volume, like a hard disk or a directory on an SRM server. I run mine via the latter.

In my lab I have an HP9000-382 running HP-UX from a SCSI2SD board, with an SRM card installed in a DIO slot, with the SRM-UX package installed. Over by my 3048A in the other room, I have an HP9000-340 that boots BASIC via SRM. On the SRM server, I have (among many others) a subdirectory called "HP3048A". I change to that directory, load the program, and run it.

I initially copied the files from the floppy disks into the 3048A directory on the SRM server, just piling all of the disks' contents into that directory.

You should be able to do the same thing, by just copying them into a directory on an HP-IB drive. (real or emulated)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: HP 3048A software without floppy disks

Lothar baier
 

开云体育

The last time I used a 3048A based system I was about 25years younger ?? if I remember correctly the system software ran of a HDD on a HP Workstation , later on they swapped the computer to a HP Vectra but I am not sure if they still used the original basic software or HP actually came out with a DOS version .

This thing is a legitimate dinosaur

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Matt Huszagh via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 8:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 3048A software without floppy disks

?

Hello,

I asked this question as part of another question on VintHPcom
(/g/VintHPcom/message/7448). However, I believe people
in this group are likely to have familiarity with the 3048A software so
I'm somewhat cross-posting here.

I'm trying to run the HP 3048A software from my HP 382. However, I
believe my floppy drive may be bad. Is there a way to run this software
from program files instead of from floppy disks?

I got the software from hparchive
(). That includes
the disk images and the ASCII files. I can use hpdir/hpdrive to copy the
ASCII files to the hpdrive emulated hard drive. I can then run PHASE
with GET "PHASE". But this then prompts me to input the "PHASE_SUBS"
floppy to proceed. Is there a way to provide the "PHASE_SUBS" ASCII file
instead of the floppy?

I think another way to do this would be to get another GPIB adapter and
emulate a floppy drive with another invocation of hpdrive. But, I'd
prefer to avoid buying another GPIB adapter if I can.

Thanks,
Matt




?


Re: HP-8753E Options Activated

Lothar baier
 

开云体育

Have you checked the supply voltage level for the EEPROM ? if the supply voltage is below a certain level than the device is write protected , this is a safety feature that allows designers to use a EEPROM as a replacement for traditional EPROMS

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 8:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

The switch in both cases was not faulty. I think the write protect was activated, but as to the reason, I cannot say for certain. Every other aspect of the analyzer seems to be functional. I also thought it strange that the CPU Board recognizes when S400 SW8 ALT ENABLE is thrown during some of the routines.

?

This one remains a mystery to me.?



On Feb 21, 2022, at 9:29 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

That is indeed strange , the only thing I can think of is that the switch is faulty or that somehow the EEPROM has a write protect enabled

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 6:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

Yes I threw S400 SW8 - I was never able to get the load to work. In both CPU’s with License Activation Keys it would report “56 OPT COR FAIL” when attempting to load it.?

?

Trust me, if there were a way not to remove the EEPROM’s I would have done it. It was after multiple attempts with two CPU’s with the License Key for each Serial Number I opted to edit the Binaries of the EEPROM.?

On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:52 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

Hmmm have you unprotected the EEPROM ?? the E has the new flash based CPU board there is a little switch on the board that you have to toggle to remove the write protect.

I have fixed and upgraded well over 100 8753 and 8720 VNA when I was working at tucker and I don’t recall any instance when the option codes did not work

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

I did not see any reference to the 8753E Series on Yahoo Groups. ?I did see some reference to the earlier versions to include those provided by Marcus.?

?

With regards to the Option Codes, I did get options code for both CPU’s from Cesar. Both of them would not take these codes. This issue still puzzles me. I could understand a hardware fault for one not taking it, but two makes me thing some of the units were locked down somehow.?

?

Rich





On Feb 21, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

Now obviously agilent released the option codes , there is a guy who provides you with the option codes , all you need to provide is the serial#

?

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Bruce via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 2:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

So where is the data you made public ??

Cheers

Bruce

Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:

> I figured this stuff out years ago on the 87xx as well as the?
> options on the 8360 and made it public, it cost me my job and I?
> nearly avoided a lawsuit from Agilent ?
> On Feb 21, 2022, at 13:26, Rich Miller via groups.io?
> <av8torrich@...> wrote:
>
> ? Hopefully someone can make use of this information. I found that?
> OPT 11 was involved by using 01 at that address. I also found that?
> using 01 addresses before the serial number would activate OPT10. I?
> did not get wise to the Fx Codes until Joe pointed them out to me.
>
> No worries about the flux, there is none left in the area. I used?
> lots of UltraSolve to clean the past flux I Utilize. This particular?
> flux is supposed to be safe if left, but I clean it anyways.
>
> On Feb 21, 2022, at 10:20 AM, Lothar@... wrote:
>
> ?The systematic is the same on pretty much all HP 8752/53/19/20/22?
> analyzers, you find the serial number and the 3 Fx codes are setting?
> the options!
> one word of caution though on the 8753E/ES CPU board, when removing?
> and resoldering the SMT eeprom
>? you need to clean up all flux residue throughly or you can get issues
>
>
>
>










?

?

?

?


Re: HP 3048A software without floppy disks

 

"Lothar baier" <Lothar@...> writes:

Check this

PN3048: HP 3048A Phase Noise Analyzer Software for Windows (ke5fx.com)<>
Thanks. That software's great, but unfortunately it's not complete. In
particular it does not allow me to perform the calibration procedure.

Matt


Re: HP 3048A software without floppy disks

Lothar baier
 

开云体育

Check this

?

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Matt Huszagh via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 8:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 3048A software without floppy disks

?

Hello,

I asked this question as part of another question on VintHPcom
(/g/VintHPcom/message/7448). However, I believe people
in this group are likely to have familiarity with the 3048A software so
I'm somewhat cross-posting here.

I'm trying to run the HP 3048A software from my HP 382. However, I
believe my floppy drive may be bad. Is there a way to run this software
from program files instead of from floppy disks?

I got the software from hparchive
(). That includes
the disk images and the ASCII files. I can use hpdir/hpdrive to copy the
ASCII files to the hpdrive emulated hard drive. I can then run PHASE
with GET "PHASE". But this then prompts me to input the "PHASE_SUBS"
floppy to proceed. Is there a way to provide the "PHASE_SUBS" ASCII file
instead of the floppy?

I think another way to do this would be to get another GPIB adapter and
emulate a floppy drive with another invocation of hpdrive. But, I'd
prefer to avoid buying another GPIB adapter if I can.

Thanks,
Matt




?


Re: HP-8753E Options Activated

 

开云体育

The switch in both cases was not faulty. I think the write protect was activated, but as to the reason, I cannot say for certain. Every other aspect of the analyzer seems to be functional. I also thought it strange that the CPU Board recognizes when S400 SW8 ALT ENABLE is thrown during some of the routines.

This one remains a mystery to me.?

On Feb 21, 2022, at 9:29 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

That is indeed strange , the only thing I can think of is that the switch is faulty or that somehow the EEPROM has a write protect enabled

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 6:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

Yes I threw S400 SW8 - I was never able to get the load to work. In both CPU’s with License Activation Keys it would report “56 OPT COR FAIL” when attempting to load it.?

?

Trust me, if there were a way not to remove the EEPROM’s I would have done it. It was after multiple attempts with two CPU’s with the License Key for each Serial Number I opted to edit the Binaries of the EEPROM.?

On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:52 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

Hmmm have you unprotected the EEPROM ?? the E has the new flash based CPU board there is a little switch on the board that you have to toggle to remove the write protect.

I have fixed and upgraded well over 100 8753 and 8720 VNA when I was working at tucker and I don’t recall any instance when the option codes did not work

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

I did not see any reference to the 8753E Series on Yahoo Groups. ?I did see some reference to the earlier versions to include those provided by Marcus.?

?

With regards to the Option Codes, I did get options code for both CPU’s from Cesar. Both of them would not take these codes. This issue still puzzles me. I could understand a hardware fault for one not taking it, but two makes me thing some of the units were locked down somehow.?

?

Rich




On Feb 21, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

Now obviously agilent released the option codes , there is a guy who provides you with the option codes , all you need to provide is the serial#

?

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Bruce via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 2:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

So where is the data you made public ??

Cheers

Bruce

Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:

> I figured this stuff out years ago on the 87xx as well as the?
> options on the 8360 and made it public, it cost me my job and I?
> nearly avoided a lawsuit from Agilent ?
> On Feb 21, 2022, at 13:26, Rich Miller via groups.io?
> <av8torrich@...> wrote:
>
> ? Hopefully someone can make use of this information. I found that?
> OPT 11 was involved by using 01 at that address. I also found that?
> using 01 addresses before the serial number would activate OPT10. I?
> did not get wise to the Fx Codes until Joe pointed them out to me.
>
> No worries about the flux, there is none left in the area. I used?
> lots of UltraSolve to clean the past flux I Utilize. This particular?
> flux is supposed to be safe if left, but I clean it anyways.
>
> On Feb 21, 2022, at 10:20 AM, Lothar@... wrote:
>
> ?The systematic is the same on pretty much all HP 8752/53/19/20/22?
> analyzers, you find the serial number and the 3 Fx codes are setting?
> the options!
> one word of caution though on the 8753E/ES CPU board, when removing?
> and resoldering the SMT eeprom
>? you need to clean up all flux residue throughly or you can get issues
>
>
>
>









?

?

?


HP 3048A software without floppy disks

 

Hello,

I asked this question as part of another question on VintHPcom
(/g/VintHPcom/message/7448). However, I believe people
in this group are likely to have familiarity with the 3048A software so
I'm somewhat cross-posting here.

I'm trying to run the HP 3048A software from my HP 382. However, I
believe my floppy drive may be bad. Is there a way to run this software
from program files instead of from floppy disks?

I got the software from hparchive
(). That includes
the disk images and the ASCII files. I can use hpdir/hpdrive to copy the
ASCII files to the hpdrive emulated hard drive. I can then run PHASE
with GET "PHASE". But this then prompts me to input the "PHASE_SUBS"
floppy to proceed. Is there a way to provide the "PHASE_SUBS" ASCII file
instead of the floppy?

I think another way to do this would be to get another GPIB adapter and
emulate a floppy drive with another invocation of hpdrive. But, I'd
prefer to avoid buying another GPIB adapter if I can.

Thanks,
Matt


Re: HP-8753E Options Activated

Lothar baier
 

开云体育

That is indeed strange , the only thing I can think of is that the switch is faulty or that somehow the EEPROM has a write protect enabled

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 6:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

Yes I threw S400 SW8 - I was never able to get the load to work. In both CPU’s with License Activation Keys it would report “56 OPT COR FAIL” when attempting to load it.?

?

Trust me, if there were a way not to remove the EEPROM’s I would have done it. It was after multiple attempts with two CPU’s with the License Key for each Serial Number I opted to edit the Binaries of the EEPROM.?

On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:52 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

Hmmm have you unprotected the EEPROM ?? the E has the new flash based CPU board there is a little switch on the board that you have to toggle to remove the write protect.

I have fixed and upgraded well over 100 8753 and 8720 VNA when I was working at tucker and I don’t recall any instance when the option codes did not work

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Rich Miller via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

I did not see any reference to the 8753E Series on Yahoo Groups. ?I did see some reference to the earlier versions to include those provided by Marcus.?

?

With regards to the Option Codes, I did get options code for both CPU’s from Cesar. Both of them would not take these codes. This issue still puzzles me. I could understand a hardware fault for one not taking it, but two makes me thing some of the units were locked down somehow.?

?

Rich




On Feb 21, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:

?

Now obviously agilent released the option codes , there is a guy who provides you with the option codes , all you need to provide is the serial#

?

?

Sent from for Windows

?

From: Bruce via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 2:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP-8753E Options Activated

?

So where is the data you made public ??

Cheers

Bruce

Quoting Lothar baier <Lothar@...>:

> I figured this stuff out years ago on the 87xx as well as the?
> options on the 8360 and made it public, it cost me my job and I?
> nearly avoided a lawsuit from Agilent ?
> On Feb 21, 2022, at 13:26, Rich Miller via groups.io?
> <av8torrich@...> wrote:
>
> ? Hopefully someone can make use of this information. I found that?
> OPT 11 was involved by using 01 at that address. I also found that?
> using 01 addresses before the serial number would activate OPT10. I?
> did not get wise to the Fx Codes until Joe pointed them out to me.
>
> No worries about the flux, there is none left in the area. I used?
> lots of UltraSolve to clean the past flux I Utilize. This particular?
> flux is supposed to be safe if left, but I clean it anyways.
>
> On Feb 21, 2022, at 10:20 AM, Lothar@... wrote:
>
> ?The systematic is the same on pretty much all HP 8752/53/19/20/22?
> analyzers, you find the serial number and the 3 Fx codes are setting?
> the options!
> one word of caution though on the 8753E/ES CPU board, when removing?
> and resoldering the SMT eeprom
>? you need to clean up all flux residue throughly or you can get issues
>
>
>
>









?

?

?


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

And McDonald’s secret sauce and KFC’s “11 herbs and spices” ?

Steve

On Feb 21, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Tom Lee <tomlee@...> wrote:

?A classic example of trade secret protection is the formula for Coke. Patents expire, but trade secret protection lasts as long as the secret can be kept.

Tom

On 2/21/2022 4:45 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
To be clear, once an application has been made there is considerable protection until the patent is issued. As someone mentioned there are lots of patent applied for notices on manufactured items.
Also, Some companies relied more on trade secret protection. Eastman Kodak did this for many years because there is no time limit on it. They began to rely more on patents when the rate of discovery of new products became rapid enough for a patent to last through the market life. A trade secret can protect one against having a product design stolen but not against independent discovery.
Patent law seems to be extremely convoluted although it still not as bad as copyright law.

On 2/21/2022 3:38 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io wrote:

No, you cannot apply for a patent if the invention has already been publicly disclosed. Public disclosure includes going to mass manufacturing.

The patent checklist a Rockwell International and Northern Telecom included items such a date first customer trial. That date was used by the attorneys to figure out when they needed to apply for a patent.

I have 4 patents, and a key condition for the application was any possible disclosure and that included manufacturing. The application date is key, as the actual award date is not important. Many patents take years to be awarded.

Regarding big companies, new possible patentable ideas were presented to patent committees. Patent committees accepted and rejected ideas and graded them. Once the grading was done, the decision went to the executives that matched funding available for patents with business needs.

Best, Francesco K5URG

*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve - Home
*Sent:* Monday, February 21, 2022 5:14 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] How to find patents for HP equipment

?Not at all, you can go into production at any time. But you do risk “spilling the beans” before the patent protection kicks in. Lots of devices out there with “patent pending” stamped on them. I always figured that was grist for patent poachers and idea thieves.

Steve



On Feb 21, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Francesco Ledda via groups.io
<k5urg@...> wrote:

?I believe that a patent must be filed before the product
hits the market!



On Feb 21, 2022, at 16:48, saipan59 (Pete)
<saipan1959@...> wrote:

?Don't know if it helps, but can you search against
Grant Date, rather than Filing Date? My thinking is
that Grant is almost certainly going to be after
product release, so maybe it's a narrower range. During
development, there is often little time to do the
patent stuff. But closer to Release time, the designers
(may) be less busy, the design details are firm, and
they can think about patentable stuff. I could be wrong...

Trivia: My career was with DEC, then with HP and HPE.
DEC was "stingy" about spending money for patents. In
the late 80's I submitted a Disclosure as an employee
of Manufacturing. DEC said basically "good idea, but in
Manufacturing we can just keep it a secret, so no need
for a patent."
But HP was very generous with patents. Simply
submitting the disclosure paperwork paid the employee
$100. If the patent was actually granted, they paid
another $1000. I got two in my career (8184982 and
8648568) - the second one took 4 years until it was
granted (but it was submitted first).

Pete

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070







Re: WTD: Filter capacitors for 8662A PSU

 

One thing to watch out for with modern replacements is the ripple current rating - one benefit of the large Compulytics was that they could dissipate more power. Modern replacements may have a lower ESR which can mitigate this, but it is something that needs to be taken into account. The large screws used to mount the capacitors to the board also served as a path to dissipate any generated heat.? Of course the equipment -especially with HP- was not only typically engineered with a large margin for error, but also designed to be operated 24/7 in server racks with a much higher ambient temperature which eases the requirements on modern replacements .
somewhat.

Hal


Re: How to find patents for HP equipment

 

开云体育

Hi Pete:

There are a number of ways.

In general there are two search engines.? The USPTO and Google.

The good news is that Google has used Optical Character Recognition (OCR) and so you can search all of their data base for any word anywhere.
The bad news is that Google has used Optical Character Recognition which has many mistakes, so there are odds associated with any search.
- this is the basic patent number search and for United States patent number the first two characters need to be US.
At the bottom of that page there's a link to the Advanced Search where you have a lot more options.
The Google patent result pages can be trimmed back so that they end with the patent number, a very convenient situation.

The USPTO has a number of web pages for searching.? But they use .tif format for the patents, i.e. no OCR and the searches can only be done on the fields they have digitized.
This is the patent number search (good for getting class numbers):
This is the Quick search:?
Notice the select years drop down box.? When you select 1976 to present there are many more fields available to search.
When 1790 to present there are fewer fields available.? There was a patent office fire in 1836 so some patents are no longer available.
The URL for a search result is not permanent nor is the result of a patent number search.

ALL patents are issued on a Tuesday.? So? you can check? a patent date using a Calendar to confirm the patent is on a Tuesday.? If the date is not on a Tuesday there's a typo.

My web pages are filled with patents on all kinds of things including HP instruments.? Here's an old list:


And a general discussion:


I used to visit the Sunnyvale, California patent office and it turns out they are the only one where the patents are filed by Class/Sub-class numbers.? NOT in patent number order.
This allows for easy searching once you know the class numbers for the general area.


If you let me know more specifics I may be able to help.
-- 
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke, N6GCE

axioms:
1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works.
2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.